Magnus8's Canna Cream, Body Butter & Canna Lotion Study Hall

InTheShed said:
No, that answer is fine:thumb: I was mostly trying to figure out what your approximate THC/oil ratio was to get an idea of what worked for your back pain and use that as a guide. But you can only know what you know and guess at the rest!
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Hey InTheShed,

Sorry I cannot be more specific for you.

My goal was to make a very potent elixir because my back pain is so bad. This I have achieved, I believe.

There are a couple of things I wanted to say about this oil that I neglected to mention earlier.

First of all, it absorbs into the skin very fast, carrying the cannabis oils into the body with it. This is caused by my selection of oils. I chose to work with oils that are known for their ability to absorb into the skin quickly. Especially the pumpkin seed oil. I have never seen an oil enter the body as quickly as I've seen this oil enter the body. Never. And this in large part is why my oil absorbs so quickly and carries with it your precious cannabis oils to where the are needed.

Secondly, I discovered why it makes my skin tingle. It isn't the cannabis oils getting to work. No such luck. Rather, it is the hazelnut oil! I had forgotten this property of hazelnut oil, namely that it can make your skin tingle upon application. Cool, huh?

And lastly, my oil came out a deep amber colour, a colour that we both feel will stain my clothing. Just be forewarned.

Oh, and I haven't yet added the peppermint oil nor the tea tree oil on account as my wife-bot knocked over a whole bottle of tea tree oil on the bedroom carpet that she had neglected to close. Wow! Did THAT bedroom ever stink like tea tree oil for weeks afterwards. Suffice it to say that I need to buy more tea tree oil before I can add it to the mix.

But when I do... I'm expecting some kick ass pain relief coming my way. Hell, it's already kick ass without the essential oils, but with them....
 
I'm so happy that you made something that works so well for you.

I had the exact experience as you the first time I used my first batch of cream where my pain went from about an 8 to a 2. Cool stuff. I'm so happy you taught us how to make our own pain cream. I know this is a staple I will always be making.

:thanks: Magnus!

Magnus8 said:
Hello all,

So I finally had all the ingredients gathered to make the oil I've been wanting to make. I don't really think of this as a butter, but more as a massage oil or somesuch. Whatever you want to call it, it is what it is.

So I took:

25% rice bran oil
10% fractionated coconut oil
10% hazelnut oil
10% sweet almond oil
45% pumpkin seed oil

And added it to 2 ounces of ground, decarbed cannabis. When finished I had 1 quart of mixture to set in the crockpot for 18 hours on low. When cooled I extracted more than 1 pint of dark amber liquid that, when spread on my back, made me look tanned.

Does it work? Wow. Does it ever. Brought my pain from about an 8 to a 2 or 3. Wow. Pretty psyched about tis, that's for sure. When it was first applied it felt almost like one of those icy rubs being applied, but I may have imagined this. I really don't know, actually. Either way, it works.

Best,
Magnus

CORRECTION: I added:
35% pumpkin seed oil
10% grapeseed oil

in addition to the other ingredients.
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Magnus8 said:
Hey InTheShed, Sorry I cannot be more specific for you. My goal was to make a very potent elixir because my back pain is so bad. This I have achieved, I believe.
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I appreciate you posting your recipe and the info on the pumpkin seed oil! I used fractionated coconut per your early suggestion and it gets absorbed pretty well, but I'll add pumpkin seed next time. The salve I made does a good job of pain relief for ailments near the surface like a sprain or a sore elbow or calves.

I sprained my thumb driving home from work last night (how is that even possible?) and went from not being able to hold my house keys to feeling just the slightest awareness of the sprain after the salve. It really works.

Luckily I don't have any chronic pain to deal with, just the increasing number of aches that come with aging.

If you have the time I'd like you to expand upon your reasoning behind the THCa and THC combination for skin creams.

Thanks!
 
InTheShed said:
I appreciate you posting your recipe and the info on the pumpkin seed oil! I used fractionated coconut per your early suggestion and it gets absorbed pretty well, but I'll add pumpkin seed next time. The salve I made does a good job of pain relief for ailments near the surface like a sprain or a sore elbow or calves.

I sprained my thumb driving home from work last night (how is that even possible?) and went from not being able to hold my house keys to feeling just the slightest awareness of the sprain after the salve. It really works.

Luckily I don't have any chronic pain to deal with, just the increasing number of aches that come with aging.

If you have the time I'd like you to expand upon your reasoning behind the THCa and THC combination for skin creams.

Thanks!
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Hey InTheShed!

Hope this finds you well and enjoying this early morning sleeping or what have you. I am well. I like the early mornings.

As for the THC and THCa and cbd to potentiate the mix, well, I got that from our friend SweetSue. She had been watching a panel of pain experts working with cannabis for pain relief. They had discovered this particular concoction as working the best for pain. So I went with that formulation. 60% thc, 40% thca and a touch of cbd to potentiate the whole shebang to work properly together. I went on faith and it works beautifully, I tell you. I cannot believe the pain relief I'm getting from this collection of oils.

I chose not to use beeswax because I have no need for my oil to be thickened. We just take a dropper or two full and spread it on my back without beeswax and it works beautifully. It really does.

Best,
Magnus
 
FeloniousPunk said:
Congrats on the oil and book news my friend.

I can hear your beaming smile in the words you wrote!

:woohoo:



Peace. :peace:
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Thanks so much, Felonious,

Yes, I am beaming and I just cannot wait to see this book cover. I gave them ideas of what I wanted for a cover and was told that their artist couldn't draw figures very well, so I think I'm out of luck for what I want in a cover. i'm not very pleased about that, but we'll see what happens with it. I've got another designer in mind that I'd like to use, but I don't have the money to pay her for her services, unfortunately. Bummer. I only want this book to turn out right.

Best,
Magnus
 
Magnus8 said:
Hey InTheShed! Hope this finds you well and enjoying this early morning sleeping or what have you. I am well. I like the early mornings. As for the THC and THCa and cbd to potentiate the mix, well, I got that from our friend SweetSue. She had been watching a panel of pain experts working with cannabis for pain relief. They had discovered this particular concoction as working the best for pain. So I went with that formulation. 60% thc, 40% thca and a touch of cbd to potentiate the whole shebang to work properly together. I went on faith and it works beautifully, I tell you. I cannot believe the pain relief I'm getting from this collection of oils. I chose not to use beeswax because I have no need for my oil to be thickened. We just take a dropper or two full and spread it on my back without beeswax and it works beautifully. It really does.

Best,
Magnus
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Thanks for the info! It that 60/40 by dry weight (buds+sugar/fans)? I will try to account for that when I make my next batch. :thanks:
 
Hi all,

Well it has been about 2 weeks since I infused my oils and made a butter for myself. I was hoping to medicate lower, middle and upper back pain all at once. It's "high" time I update you all about how well it is working or not.

The results have been incredible. You may remember that I made my infusion very strong, 3 ounces of fine cannabis to two cups of oils. At least to me that sounds strong enough. Nevermind.

I used only oils that are exceptional for the skin, like Sweet Almond Oil and Grape seed Oil and others. One of my primary oils was Pumpkin Seed Oil, which is known for absorbing into the skin rapidly, say all absorbed within 90 seconds. As it absorbs it carries with it the cannabis oils to the body -- rapidly.

I first tried it on my back. My back has a relationship with pain that goes back some 20 years. I live wearing 200 mcg/hrs Fentanyl, twice the recommended dosage. Not because I enjoy being horribly addicted to opiates, but because I would be in a wheelchair without it. My back is that bad, and I'm not yet 50 yr old.

So the wife bot smeared the tiniest amount -- the thinnest layer -- all over my back. Within about three minutes my back felt so much better I was shocked. The pain had been reduced from a 7.5 to about a 2. Incredible. It reduced the amount and severity of the locus of pain almost instantly. It relaxed all the muscles upon which it was spread at the same rate. And it seemed almost to warm the area, due to increased blood flow to the region.

I gave a small vial of the oil to my 91 you old landlady, who was supposed to spread it on her bad knees. She did spread it on her knees and it helped, but she also decided to spread it on her feet which no longer have any feeling in them due to diabetic neuropathy. Remarkably, the oil is returning the feeling to her feet. I share this affliction with my landlady. I haven't felt my feet on the floor for over three years.

Until recently! I am proud to say I now retain probably about 60 percent of my feeling back in my feet. So much so that I am no longer fearful that I will be stepping down on a piece of glass or rusting metal without my own knowledge. This is a wonderful feeling to live with.

During this past two week period I found myself wearing a new pair of jeans, and the combined forces of the stiff material, the fact that they were still a little tight and the fact that I was dressed overly too hot for the temperature that day. By the end of the day I had rubbed all the first few layers of skin for that one inch by two inch spot -- and it stung like hell. So I smeared a thin layer of my canna oil onto the spot. I kid you not... There is no way I am lying... When I tell you that when I checked the spot about 18 hours later the skin had already formed a fragile layer of tentative skin there and the stinging sensation was gone. I seriously couldn't believe it. But there was the proof in front of my eyes and in the pleasant sensation I felt when I touched the spoL

Wow. Wow wow wow.

Though I had never before used a weed infused oil topically, within only 2 weeks of beginning I am a convinced advocate of its uses. I cannot imagine using any other topically applied solution when I have my canna oil nearby. And I cannot imagine using any other massage oil for my back due to its ability to both relax and heal my back.

Hope you are all doing splendidly.

Best,
Magnus.
 
Magnus8 said:
Hi all,

Well it has been about 2 weeks since I infused my oils and made a butter for myself. I was hoping to medicate lower, middle and upper back pain all at once. It's "high" time I update you all about how well it is working or not.

The results have been incredible. You may remember that I made my infusion very strong, 3 ounces of fine cannabis to two cups of oils. At least to me that sounds strong enough. Nevermind.

I used only oils that are exceptional for the skin, like Sweet Almond Oil and Grape seed Oil and others. One of my primary oils was Pumpkin Seed Oil, which is known for absorbing into the skin rapidly, say all absorbed within 90 seconds. As it absorbs it carries with it the cannabis oils to the body -- rapidly.

I first tried it on my back. My back has a relationship with pain that goes back some 20 years. I live wearing 200 mcg/hrs Fentanyl, twice the recommended dosage. Not because I enjoy being horribly addicted to opiates, but because I would be in a wheelchair without it. My back is that bad, and I'm not yet 50 yr old.

So the wife bot smeared the tiniest amount -- the thinnest layer -- all over my back. Within about three minutes my back felt so much better I was shocked. The pain had been reduced from a 7.5 to about a 2. Incredible. It reduced the amount and severity of the locus of pain almost instantly. It relaxed all the muscles upon which it was spread at the same rate. And it seemed almost to warm the area, due to increased blood flow to the region.

I gave a small vial of the oil to my 91 you old landlady, who was supposed to spread it on her bad knees. She did spread it on her knees and it helped, but she also decided to spread it on her feet which no longer have any feeling in them due to diabetic neuropathy. Remarkably, the oil is returning the feeling to her feet. I share this affliction with my landlady. I haven't felt my feet on the floor for over three years.

Until recently! I am proud to say I now retain probably about 60 percent of my feeling back in my feet. So much so that I am no longer fearful that I will be stepping down on a piece of glass or rusting metal without my own knowledge. This is a wonderful feeling to live with.

During this past two week period I found myself wearing a new pair of jeans, and the combined forces of the stiff material, the fact that they were still a little tight and the fact that I was dressed overly too hot for the temperature that day. By the end of the day I had rubbed all the first few layers of skin for that one inch by two inch spot -- and it stung like hell. So I smeared a thin layer of my canna oil onto the spot. I kid you not... There is no way I am lying... When I tell you that when I checked the spot about 18 hours later the skin had already formed a fragile layer of tentative skin there and the stinging sensation was gone. I seriously couldn't believe it. But there was the proof in front of my eyes and in the pleasant sensation I felt when I touched the spoL

Wow. Wow wow wow.

Though I had never before used a weed infused oil topically, within only 2 weeks of beginning I am a convinced advocate of its uses. I cannot imagine using any other topically applied solution when I have my canna oil nearby. And I cannot imagine using any other massage oil for my back due to its ability to both relax and heal my back.

Hope you are all doing splendidly.

Best,
Magnus.
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That's some fantastic results there Magnus8, I'm so pleased that this wonderful oil is giving yourself and your landlady some well needed relief.

Diabetes(among other neurological conditions) affects myself and other family members so that's a very important confirmation right there that the oils we are producing work and they work better than any synthetic pharmaceutical out there.

Thank you for the great update Magnus8 ...
 
Great news, Magnus! I'm glad it's working so well for you and your landlady. About time something worked the way it's supposed to for you.

:circle-of-love:
 
So glad to hear of your relief M8! Mine isn't as strong as yours but my pain doesn't approach what you are suffering from either. Thanks for sharing the story with us and the oil with your landlady!
 
And we love you Magnus. :hugs:

This is wonderful news, both for you and your landlady, who probably now has herself convinced that you're the best thing since sliced bread. :laughtwo:

Maybe I should try to interest my BIL again. Not feeling the floor.....I can't even imagine it. The ulcer that developed on my husband's foot because he couldn't feel the cut and we didn't notice it until it was too late eventually cost him his life. Being able to help others avoid that is priceless.

20 years you suffered, to get almost instant relief from debilitating back pain. This is a very common report. To think that they have you on opioids when this was possible..... Don't go there. Look instead to the happier future. You can use cannabis to break the dependence on opioids. That won't happen with topicals. Are you beginning a cannabinoid therapy beyond topicals?

Also, how long was the landlady using the cream before she had feeling return in her feet?
 
Ironcity73 said:
Do you think it would work well with vg. I have super sensitive skin not sure 4 or 5 oils would work well on me
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I don't think using that many oils is a requirement. If you can find one on the list that works on your skin (say just the pumpkin seed oil or just grapeseed) then it should be fine. My oil is just fractionated coconut oil and grapeseed (because I needed more and that was all I had handy) and HashGirl's is just sweet almond oil and shea butter.

Try one on your skin straight out of the bottle and if it works, go with that. Then make a small batch and see how you react to the oil/THC combo as well in case you're possibly sensitive to the THC. If all goes well you can make more!
 
InTheShed said:
Hey gang! I'm hoping you can help with a question regarding ratio of THC/oil. I searched the thread and found what a few people are doing but no hard and fast recommendations.

I took 12 ounces of fractionated coconut oil and infused it with 51 grams of ground and decarbed bud. At a rough estimate of 10% THC, that gave me 5100 mg THC in 355 ml of oil, or 14.4 mg/ml. Is that incredibly high for a massage oil/cream? I have some grape seed oil I can cut it with if someone can give me a target number. This will be used for arthritis, inflammation, and general massage use.

I plan on adding a bit of beeswax as a stiffener.

Any thoughts on the best THC/oil ratio would be greatly appreciated!
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Hi there-
I am working on formulating some butters & balms and found topical dosing info on Sweet Sue's Dosing page. I think the link is in her signature- bear with me while I get better at using this site. Based on what I read- typical topical strengths are 5-10 mg/dose, up to 4x daily. The patch is 12mg.

That's awesome news for you, because it just means you can make a bunch of different salves/butters using your infused oil. I highly recommend looking at some butter/balm recipes online to find a delivery vehicle that looks like it will fit your intended application (thin, like massage oil? Or thicker, so it will stay in place?) There are lots of oils that will work.

I've been figuring out the total volume of the recipe I'm interested in trying (say 9.5 oz). Then I figure out what amount would be typically used at a time (say, a teaspoon), then I do some math to determine what amount of infused oil I'd need to include in the recipe to get a clinical dose. Bearing in mind that I'm guesstimating the strength of my infusion- so I'll be using 20mg/dose as a target (on the assumption that my infusion might be weaker than the "maximum" calculation based on strain etc. Hope this helps!
 
Farm Girl said:
Hi there-
I am working on formulating some butters & balms and found topical dosing info on Sweet Sue's Dosing page. I think the link is in her signature- bear with me while I get better at using this site. Based on what I read- typical topical strengths are 5-10 mg/dose, up to 4x daily. The patch is 12mg.

That's awesome news for you, because it just means you can make a bunch of different salves/butters using your infused oil. I highly recommend looking at some butter/balm recipes online to find a delivery vehicle that looks like it will fit your intended application (thin, like massage oil? Or thicker, so it will stay in place?) There are lots of oils that will work.

I've been figuring out the total volume of the recipe I'm interested in trying (say 9.5 oz). Then I figure out what amount would be typically used at a time (say, a teaspoon), then I do some math to determine what amount of infused oil I'd need to include in the recipe to get a clinical dose. Bearing in mind that I'm guesstimating the strength of my infusion- so I'll be using 20mg/dose as a target (on the assumption that my infusion might be weaker than the "maximum" calculation based on strain etc. Hope this helps!
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I don't think there are any posts that define a clinical dose for external creams and salves. SweetSue mentions 0.5 gm to 10 gm...quite a wide range. It's just down to whatever works. Make a batch of strong stuff and then dilute some by degrees and see how far you can cut it before it no longer works. The one above that would be your ratio for that specific ailment.

Also, as Magnus has stated, thicker means less absorption into the skin, so the less thickening agent (like beeswax) the better.
 
InTheShed said:
I don't think there are any posts that define a clinical dose for external creams and salves. SweetSue mentions 0.5 gm to 10 gm...quite a wide range. It's just down to whatever works. Make a batch of strong stuff and then dilute some by degrees and see how far you can cut it before it no longer works. The one above that would be your ratio for that specific ailment.

Also, as Magnus has stated, thicker means less absorption into the skin, so the less thickening agent (like beeswax) the better.
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Topicals do cover a huge range of ailments. Good point about not wanting to slow down absorption! Here's the info from Sweet Sue's page. I was looking for a starting point (and order of magnitude!) for dosage, so I found it very helpful:

TOPICALS

* Topicals are cannabinoids bonded to alcohols, oils, or petroleum jellies.

* Cannabis can be applied topically to relieve symptoms and as an antiseptic.

* Since applying cannabis topicals to the skin doesn't effect the central nervous system receptors the chance of psychoactivity is reduced to minimal.

* Skin conditions respond positively to cannabis topicals, as does peripheral pain.

* There's a cannabis patch available on the market, designed to penetrate the skin and gain access to the bloodstream.

* Other additions that can help cannabinoids penetrate the skin barrier into the bloodstream include DMSO and the terpene limonene.

Options for topical usage (This is in no way an inclusive list.)
* salve for skin conditions
* oil for massage
* cremes for joint pain

DOSING TOPICALS

* You'll need a higher dose, determined by the area to be covered.

* Once absorbed through the skin the effects last 4 hours or longer.

*Use estimates may be 0.5 gm to 10 gm per dose (5-10 mg of cannabinoids per dose). The cannabis patch has 12 mg of cannabinoids.

* Topicals can be applied up to 4 x a day.

* High Dose Use: Apply oil directly to skin cancer and cover with a bandage. Every 3-4 days refresh with new oil and a new bandage.

They don't recommend you do this without medical supervision. I can certainly understand their thinking, but I know of at least one member who did just this, on his own, but still under his oncologist's care. It's just his oncologist doesn't work with cannabis. Thankfully, he was still open to the self-medication.

It took him less than 30 days to eliminate that pesky melanoma.

Advantages
* Topicals give no psychoactive effects.
* Topicals can help with peripheral and local symptoms.
* They're easily portable.
* Topicals are moderately long-acting. (4-6 hours)
* Using alcohol extends the shelf life.

Disadvantages
* Topicals can be oily, messy, and smelly.
* There's a widely variable range of potency. It can be challenging to get any precision.
* They're only good for external symptoms.
* Unless you prepare them at home you usually can't choose the strain.
* Making Topicals requires a large amount of plant material, which can get expensive.
 
Farm Girl said:
I was looking for a starting point (and order of magnitude!) for dosage, so I found it very helpful
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From a personal standpoint I found that range overly large, so I went with how much material I had available and got it down to around 10mg/ml if my wild guess at THC content was close. I didn't do any testing so who knows really. It works on most of what I use it for.

If I had a specific ailment I would carry out the dilution test and see where it stopped working. That's the only real way to know what will help. And it would keep me from wasting any material in overshooting what works.

Oh...also, I'm not sure how 0.5 gm to 10 gm translates to 5-10 mg of cannabinoids per dose.
 
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