Keffka's Stonington Soil, Bag Seed, 2022 Setup Indoor Grow

[StoneOtter]

Looks like magnesium deficiency starting again. What is your light out temp?

 

[Gee64]

keffka that mottled look in the coloring is still residue (scarring) from before. Its in all your previous pics if you zoom in. Watch the new growth thats only half opened and more importantly the very new tips once they fully form. Your serrations do look borderline jagged tho, I would back the vpd off to about 1.35 for 3 days. It wont cost you anything to do it but it could very well up your yield alot. Every new leaf counts now as you will need all the photosynthesis you can get down the home stretch. If you increase the light 10% but lose 15% foliage you take a 5% loss on photosynthesis. let her cruise til late into week 4 and once she starts to fatten up then slowly dial the vpd back up. If you leave your vpd at 1.35 and save every leaf you will get a better harvest than a higher vpd that damages leaves and lowers photosynthesis. I would guess your vpd is high right now. You want humidity about 55 for your stage and then adjust the light to dial in the vpd. Shes a bit stressed right now. Not badly but close to crispy edges.

 

[Gee64]

If you drive a plant too hard for the state of the roots a deficiency will appear, usually a mag def but if you slow her down a bit so the roots can keep up to photosynthesis nutrient demand the deficiency goes away. In short...to much light grows foliage faster than the rootball can feed the plant and it mimicks a deficiency. Its one of the main reasons i use 10 gal pots...lotsa roots.

 

[StoneOtter]

If you drive a plant too hard for the state of the roots a deficiency will appear, usually a mag def but if you slow her down a bit so the roots can keep up to photosynthesis nutrient demand the deficiency goes away. In short...to much light grows foliage faster than the rootball can feed the plant and it mimicks a deficiency. Its one of the main reasons i use 10 gal pots...lotsa roots.

Hi Gee, I think I see your direction, and it may well be proper and natural, good firm understanding on your part. So why not mix a tablespoon of epsom salts/gallon of water for a watering? Wouldn't that give her what she wants/needs and time to grow those roots needed for balanced health?

 

[Gee64]

Hi Gee, I think I see your direction, and it may well be proper and natural, good firm understanding on your part. So why not mix a tablespoon of epsom salts/gallon of water for a watering? Wouldn't that give her what she wants/needs and time to grow those roots needed for balanced health?

It quite possibly would yes, I am not sure as I never really need or use additives but if you are overdriving the plant then adding more of anything, you do run the risk of throwing your soil out of balance, and calcium and magnesium are about the 2 most important minerals to maintain balance on. Thats why Cal/mag comes as a blend of Cal and Mag. The balance between the 2 sets both the EC and available nitrogen. Too much mag will lock your nitrogen. So that being said, I would just try slowing the plant down a bit to let her run at a speed that the roots can handle as its free to try without harm to the soils environment, and if the problem is still there then certainly try something else like what you suggested. In organics if you are going to add mag then make sure you have some vermicompost handy and if she starts to go light green like you locked the nitrogen then have the vermicompost dried so you can powder it and dust the surface of the pot and water in. Vermicompost is very calcium rich and bio-available so it will quickly unlock the nitrogen and restore balance. A good way to see a mag deficiency or a cal deficiency is by looking at the top of your soil. Excess magnesium, or more to the point, low calcium causing the cal to mag ratio to be mag heavy, will crust the soil on top when its dry. Not enough mag will cause the soil to become very dust-like on top. In living soil its very rarely a mag deficiency, its usually a Cal deficiency as cal is a very heavy metal and always goes down leaving the mag behind which crusts the top and locks the nitrogen. The most important thing tho is never try 2 things at once so add mag with some EWC handy OR adjust the vpd downwards. If the 1st doesn't work then try the second.

 

[Gee64]

Here is a pic from Oct 1st. You can see in it that the new leaves are already scarred which means the growth tips are too so they will grow out scarred, which are the leaves we see in the pic we are discussing. Keffka has his plants much happier now so the problem has likely corrected itself already but the leaf serrations are starting to point up again which causes the plant to sweat too much which requires the plant to need more mag but I suspect his soil is fine and balanced as its a highly rated soil so I would start with lowering the vpd 1st to slow the sweating. If the soil does contain enough mag then it can only be that the plant isnt taking enough in to satisfy its needs as it sprints a marathon, and that is usually caused by the rootball being too small for the speed you are running over a long period of time. Myself I would back off the vpd and wait but I would definitely have some mag and dried ewc ready if the vpd thing doesn't work. If it is a mag deficiency this early in flower I wouldn't use that soil again to be honest. The whole purpose of living soil is to not have to do this, just topdress with a light coating of EWC to keep calcium up top and add a bit of bat guano or whatever organic phosphorus you choose as a top dress at flip and then every 10 days or so until you are about to start finishing your plant which is usually the last 10-14 days. The real problem, to be honest, and this is only my humble opinion, is the small pots. If you don't want issues then use enough soil so you never encounter a deficiency and bigger pots equals bigger rootballs to allow the faster pace (higher vpd) and not encounter adverse effects. Its that jagged look to the serrations coming back that I would fix 1st. Nobody like a stressed chick, they can quickly turn into a redhead.

 

[Gee64]

But after that long rant Otter could be 100% correct. I would just try vpd 1st is all.

 

[StoneOtter]

It quite possibly would yes, I am not sure as I never really need or use additives but if you are overdriving the plant then adding more of anything, you do run the risk of throwing your soil out of balance, and calcium and magnesium are about the 2 most important minerals to maintain balance on. Thats why Cal/mag comes as a blend of Cal and Mag. The balance between the 2 sets both the EC and available nitrogen. Too much mag will lock your nitrogen. So that being said, I would just try slowing the plant down a bit to let her run at a speed that the roots can handle as its free to try without harm to the soils environment, and if the problem is still there then certainly try something else like what you suggested. In organics if you are going to add mag then make sure you have some vermicompost handy and if she starts to go light green like you locked the nitrogen then have the vermicompost dried so you can powder it and dust the surface of the pot and water in. Vermicompost is very calcium rich and bio-available so it will quickly unlock the nitrogen and restore balance. A good way to see a mag deficiency or a cal deficiency is by looking at the top of your soil. Excess magnesium, or more to the point, low calcium causing the cal to mag ratio to be mag heavy, will crust the soil on top when its dry. Not enough mag will cause the soil to become very dust-like on top. In living soil its very rarely a mag deficiency, its usually a Cal deficiency as cal is a very heavy metal and always goes down leaving the mag behind which crusts the top and locks the nitrogen. The most important thing tho is never try 2 things at once so add mag with some EWC handy OR adjust the vpd downwards. If the 1st doesn't work then try the second.

I think what you do is the absolute way for me GEE. I'm chuckling as I type that because I know how difficult it is to grow in perfect harmony with the surroundings we provide. I watch lots of gardens and not many knowingly harmonise roots, shoots, and light to this degree including myself, though now that you lay out what you did I have a new goal. Any chance you have the time to journal a grow for us, or do you have one I can visit?

 

[Gee64]

I think what you do is the absolute way for me GEE. I'm chuckling as I type that because I know how difficult it is to grow in perfect harmony with the surroundings we provide. I watch lots of gardens and not many knowingly harmonise roots, shoots, and light to this degree including myself, though now that you lay out what you did I have a new goal. Any chance you have the time to journal a grow for us, or do you have one I can visit?

I do but you will have to wait for spring. I could quite gladly start a grow journal now and we can talk about soil and prep and most definitely theory and other good stuff until Febuary-ish when I next pop some beans. I am currently working my worm farm hard to get ahead on vermicompost for next year and personally I find worm farms interesting. I am about to harvest 4 Durbans from my tent and a massive Rose Kush/c99 cross I made from the garden so if you guys want to watch those harvests and while I am trimming and trimming and trimming we can BS about anything you like. I do come with a warning tho lol. I am only living soil full on organic (but I do find all styles extremely interesting and will gladly listen to anybody talk about any style as it teaches me, but I may ask stupid questions lol) and even tho I promise myself every grow that I won't science something I always do so things can and have gone terribly sideways but its always fun and humorous and I don't do snitfests. I do love debates though and i especially enjoy being wrong because that means I have learned something new and that is something in life you can't put a value on. Whats usually the problem in most grows that aren't 1st or 2nd grows is the synergy is broken. Its the synergy I crave and chase and that comes from a bunch of people talking thru it. I don't want to distract from Keffkas grow though as his plants are entering my favorite part of the cycle and we get to watch someone grow in small pots which is a huge challenge and we are all definitely going to learn some freebees at poor Keff's expense. So if you want I will certainly start a journal as long as we hang out here too.

 

[StoneOtter]

I do but you will have to wait for spring. I could quite gladly start a grow journal now and we can talk about soil and prep and most definitely theory and other good stuff until Febuary-ish when I next pop some beans. I am currently working my worm farm hard to get ahead on vermicompost for next year and personally I find worm farms interesting. I am about to harvest 4 Durbans from my tent and a massive Rose Kush/c99 cross I made from the garden so if you guys want to watch those harvests and while I am trimming and trimming and trimming we can BS about anything you like. I do come with a warning tho lol. I am only living soil full on organic (but I do find all styles extremely interesting and will gladly listen to anybody talk about any style as it teaches me, but I may ask stupid questions lol) and even tho I promise myself every grow that I won't science something I always do so things can and have gone terribly sideways but its always fun and humorous and I don't do snitfests. I do love debates though and i especially enjoy being wrong because that means I have learned something new and that is something in life you can't put a value on. Whats usually the problem in most grows that aren't 1st or 2nd grows is the synergy is broken. Its the synergy I crave and chase and that comes from a bunch of people talking thru it. I don't want to distract from Keffkas grow though as his plants are entering my favorite part of the cycle and we get to watch someone grow in small pots which is a huge challenge and we are all definitely going to learn some freebees at poor Keff's expense. So if you want I will certainly start a journal as long as we hang out here too.

Keffka's doing a great job. Let's not put all this on his table but stay in touch. I'm starting an LOS grow ala The Rev soil in a couple of weeks. Maybe we can all meet there for more of this. I'm wrapping up the Zkittlez etc. one below now. I'll let folks know when the new one starts there and try to remember to drop it here too.
Are you feeding your worms specific canna positive input like Coot?

 

[Gee64]

Keffka's doing a great job. Let's not put all this on his table but stay in touch. I'm starting an LOS grow ala The Rev soil in a couple of weeks. Maybe we can all meet there for more of this. I'm wrapping up the Zkittlez etc. one below now. I'll let folks know when the new one starts there and try to remember to drop it here too.
Are you feeding your worms specific canna positive input like Coot?

Ahh The Rev I love the guy. I use Kingdom Organic seeds all the time. I own both his books too. I'm in if you start a grow.

 

[Gee64]

Ahh The Rev I love the guy. I use Kingdom Organic seeds all the time. I own both his books too. I'm in if you start a grow.

As for worm food I use my flower soil as a carbon source and the worms break the minerals down for me to make them bio-available and I add anything green that only I have grown in my 100% organic gardens. Once the vermicompost (EWC) is finished I mix equal parts ewc,coco, and perlite to replenish the carbon that the microbes ate and balance the aereation back out. Then I take that mix and add it 1 part ewc mix to 3 parts of the soil I started the ewc process with and end up with more or less my original soil but now its innoculated with microlife and a little heavy on protein from all the greens I put in so when all those microbes start eating all that soil and releasing all that carbon dioxide, there is enough protein to maintain the balanced diet. I always save some for topdressing to keep calcium up top. Every 2 weeks my farm gives me 4 gallons of EWC. I use a Worm Factory 360.

 

[Keffka]

Awesome.. this is why I love grow journals.. the knowledge that organically comes out through conversations.

I think you nailed it with the small pots @Gee64 I’m in a 3 gallon smart pot so I’m already not even at the minimum recommended size of 5 gallons on the bag. Lesson learned, however, I think my style may feel more at home with a 7 gallon, we’ll see.

Anyways.. I think I may be pushing the plant a little hard for the size of its pot and the adjustments I’ve made.. I.e. I just let the plant go to its 4th day without watering it when these most recent issues cropped up.. my thinking is, me allowing the soil to dry out as much as I did (pot was really light.. not dry but really light) while running my VPD at 1.4-1.5 and increasing DLI, pushed it too hard resulting in the serrations and lensing. I took off the last 2 inches I recently added (I added the day I watered so no loss) and lowered the VPD again. Her stretching appears to have slowed/stopped. The serrations have eased and the lensing hasn’t progressed.. I’ll post pictures in a bit.

 

[Keffka]

Todays images

 

[Gee64]

Holy Moly Keff you got them gals hopping Look at those stalks go! So much bud in your future!

 

[StoneOtter]

Ahh The Rev I love the guy. I use Kingdom Organic seeds all the time. I own both his books too. I'm in if you start a grow.

I was thrilled with his genetics, very distinctly different from maybe what may be popular from what I can tell.

As for worm food I use my flower soil as a carbon source and the worms break the minerals down for me to make them bio-available and I add anything green that only I have grown in my 100% organic gardens. Once the vermicompost (EWC) is finished I mix equal parts ewc,coco, and perlite to replenish the carbon that the microbes ate and balance the aereation back out. Then I take that mix and add it 1 part ewc mix to 3 parts of the soil I started the ewc process with and end up with more or less my original soil but now its innoculated with microlife and a little heavy on protein from all the greens I put in so when all those microbes start eating all that soil and releasing all that carbon dioxide, there is enough protein to maintain the balanced diet. I always save some for topdressing to keep calcium up top. Every 2 weeks my farm gives me 4 gallons of EWC. I use a Worm Factory 360.

That's the ticket!

Awesome.. this is why I love grow journals.. the knowledge that organically comes out through conversations.

I think you nailed it with the small pots @Gee64 I’m in a 3 gallon smart pot so I’m already not even at the minimum recommended size of 5 gallons on the bag. Lesson learned, however, I think my style may feel more at home with a 7 gallon, we’ll see.

Anyways.. I think I may be pushing the plant a little hard for the size of its pot and the adjustments I’ve made.. I.e. I just let the plant go to its 4th day without watering it when these most recent issues cropped up.. my thinking is, me allowing the soil to dry out as much as I did (pot was really light.. not dry but really light) while running my VPD at 1.4-1.5 and increasing DLI, pushed it too hard resulting in the serrations and lensing. I took off the last 2 inches I recently added (I added the day I watered so no loss) and lowered the VPD again. Her stretching appears to have slowed/stopped. The serrations have eased and the lensing hasn’t progressed.. I’ll post pictures in a bit.

Stoner that I am I forgot about the 3 gal pot. Pretty sure that's it. Hehe, she looks great! We learn something in every grow!

 

[Gee64]

I have 2 of The Rev's Congo Bhai Bhai's vegging right now. If theres a female there then I guess I AM growing a winter plant.

 

[Keffka]

Stoner that I am I forgot about the 3 gal pot. Pretty sure that's it. Hehe, she looks great! We learn something in every grow!

I didn’t game out pot sizes enough in my head.. I was just using straight math, “if a 5 gallon provides this many days, then a 3 gallon provides this many days” I didn’t think about as the roots got bigger they’d require greater access to greater amounts, it was all very linear in my mind.

That kind of stuff is why I chose “bagseed” (it’s not fair to call it true bag seed since I know the seeds came from strong genetics and pulled them out of the harvest myself) for my first go.. Something like that I wouldn’t have even thought about correctly until I saw it play out.

Holy Moly Keff you got them gals hopping Look at those stalks go! So much bud in your future!

Thanks Gee! I’m pleased with the results so far, really trying to avoid tanking it during the final weeks lol.. I am excited though because, if I was able to pull this off with just a loose initial understanding, I can’t wait to see what I can produce with a better understanding.

The buds are like the final frontier lol.. I’ve seen every thing else and I’ve seen how the plant responds to different inputs, but the buds are still a mystery. I can’t tell how big or what quality they’ll be based on what I’ve done yet so I’m anxiously waiting lol.

 

[StoneOtter]

I have 2 of The Rev's Congo Bhai Bhai's vegging right now. If theres a female there then I guess I AM growing a winter plant.

Ooh, I have some Coma Cluster and Cindy Congo that share some lineage of that. Haven't grown either of them yet. Glad you are!

I didn’t game out pot sizes enough in my head.. I was just using straight math, “if a 5 gallon provides this many days, then a 3 gallon provides this many days” I didn’t think about as the roots got bigger they’d require greater access to greater amounts, it was all very linear in my mind.

That kind of stuff is why I chose “bagseed” (it’s not fair to call it true bag seed since I know the seeds came from strong genetics and pulled them out of the harvest myself) for my first go.. Something like that I wouldn’t have even thought about correctly until I saw it play out.



Thanks Gee! I’m pleased with the results so far, really trying to avoid tanking it during the final weeks lol.. I am excited though because, if I was able to pull this off with just a loose initial understanding, I can’t wait to see what I can produce with a better understanding.

The buds are like the final frontier lol.. I’ve seen every thing else and I’ve seen how the plant responds to different inputs, but the buds are still a mystery. I can’t tell how big or what quality they’ll be based on what I’ve done yet so I’m anxiously waiting lol.

Keep a close watch so you can get her what she wants early.

 

[Gee64]

I didn’t game out pot sizes enough in my head.. I was just using straight math, “if a 5 gallon provides this many days, then a 3 gallon provides this many days” I didn’t think about as the roots got bigger they’d require greater access to greater amounts, it was all very linear in my mind.

That kind of stuff is why I chose “bagseed” (it’s not fair to call it true bag seed since I know the seeds came from strong genetics and pulled them out of the harvest myself) for my first go.. Something like that I wouldn’t have even thought about correctly until I saw it play out.



Thanks Gee! I’m pleased with the results so far, really trying to avoid tanking it during the final weeks lol.. I am excited though because, if I was able to pull this off with just a loose initial understanding, I can’t wait to see what I can produce with a better understanding.

The buds are like the final frontier lol.. I’ve seen every thing else and I’ve seen how the plant responds to different inputs, but the buds are still a mystery. I can’t tell how big or what quality they’ll be based on what I’ve done yet so I’m anxiously waiting lol.

I know I post long posts so sorry for that but I believe helping people decide for themselves thru knowledge is better than grunting out " Your pots are too small" or whatever depending on the subject, and that requires a lot of words so..."Keff your pots are too small! Get ready! What ya gonna do about it!!??!!" lol. The spoiler: You are going to run out of carbon, not minerals or nutes...carbon. The hint: its organic and tastes exactly like blackstrap mollasses.... The negative...it will burn your tips... the positive...who cares. Start reading and only use additives that feed microbes not the plants. Get the ingredients. Hint there are really only 2 you need. The one that tastes exactly like blackstrap molasses and one that sounds exactly like EWC. Make sure they are on your shelf and yhe split second stretch stops start brewing and repeat every 10 days til 2 weeks from finish. Its just microbes and pure natural carbon. Organic cane sugar works too but bsm gives a better taste profile.