Jon's Sneak It In Auto Grow

[InTheShed]

Excellent explanation as usual Jon, thanks! In flower I can see how that does create a lot more airflow between them, especially with all those sombrero brims.

While I have you I have a question: when you had your coco-over-hydro working a while back, were you still top-watering once the roots were fully grown into the tub? I ask because I stuck a bbq skewer into my SWICK this morning after filling the res, and 6 hours later it came out dry! That makes me think that I'm really growing in hempy with the soil just there to help keep the enormous plant upright!

You think there is any advantage to top watering and getting the roots to use the soil as well?

 

[NickHardy]

I have this theory which maybe I can test if my bloody builders ever show up that our drainage trays if we did a donut shape of 8 (they’re 40x40cm) so its 120cm (4ft) square. IE one light

XXX
XOX
XXX

Would yield more than 9 plants - even though you’re giving up the max light zone because it will give them space to grow and get power from all 8 around. Start putting donuts side by side and getting light overlapping from adjacent lights/donuts as well counter intuitively I think it would max yields.

Our room is 7cm (2”) too narrow so short of buying a new house I can’t test properly. But I think I can get a single donut done.

The balance of room v. Plant # v. Yield

Nick

 

[Jon]

Excellent explanation as usual Jon, thanks! In flower I can see how that does create a lot more airflow between them, especially with all those sombrero brims.

While I have you I have a question: when you had your coco-over-hydro working a while back, were you still top-watering once the roots were fully grown into the tub? I ask because I stuck a bbq skewer into my SWICK this morning after filling the res, and 6 hours later it came out dry! That makes me think that I'm really growing in hempy with the soil just there to help keep the enormous plant upright!

You think there is any advantage to top watering and getting the roots to use the soil as well?

Hey @InTheShed - thanks. Yes, I top water the roots in the pot of coco every time I water when I do it that way. In fact, I got to the point where, if the res needed a gallon say, I would simply water the coco and let the runoff water the res. I think (and read somewhere) that keeping those upper roots wet is important. In examining root balls (which you’ve done PLENTY of, lol) I see how the roots themselves form, where basically every root except the tap is a feeder. They all have those little wispy sucker-upper things on them so they’re all “fibrous,” if that makes sense. Therefore I feel to not water the upper coco pot is eliminating a source of feeding - it’s ripping off the plant. I’ve also found that it’s important to not use too small of a pot up top. At least a gallon. I tried the last White Widow in the super small pot scenario (half gallon upper pot, 5-gallon bucket res) and for whatever reason it didn’t work out too well. The weed was fine, just like WW always is, but the plant was smaller than it should have been. I know it’s only one example and to draw a conclusion from that is weak, but I just really felt the small pot was the culprit. Just can’t explain it yet. Lol.

Does any of that answer your question or help?

 

[Jon]

I have this theory which maybe I can test if my bloody builders ever show up that our drainage trays if we did a donut shape of 8 (they’re 40x40cm) so its 120cm (4ft) square. IE one light

XXX
XOX
XXX

Would yield more than 9 plants - even though you’re giving up the max light zone because it will give them space to grow and get power from all 8 around. Start putting donuts side by side and getting light overlapping from adjacent lights/donuts as well counter intuitively I think it would max yields.

Our room is 7cm (2”) too narrow so short of buying a new house I can’t test properly. But I think I can get a single donut done.

The balance of room v. Plant # v. Yield

Nick

It’s an ongoing balancing act isn’t it @NickHardy? That’s a big reason why I just took one plant out of the tent. Now I have the five of a die versus a six on a die. Way better scenario for air flow, RH, temp control, and I agree with you - yield too. The plants will be WAY happier. Gotta believe that translates into yield, yea?

 

[Jon]

Excellent explanation as usual Jon, thanks! In flower I can see how that does create a lot more airflow between them, especially with all those sombrero brims.

While I have you I have a question: when you had your coco-over-hydro working a while back, were you still top-watering once the roots were fully grown into the tub? I ask because I stuck a bbq skewer into my SWICK this morning after filling the res, and 6 hours later it came out dry! That makes me think that I'm really growing in hempy with the soil just there to help keep the enormous plant upright!

You think there is any advantage to top watering and getting the roots to use the soil as well?

@InTheShed - I managed to snap a picture that I believe shows you a bit more clearly the space created by removing the one plant. See?

 

[Jon]

Watermelon Wedding Cake
Day 48

Hard to get good pics cuz of the nature of the garden but managed to snap this decent one. They both look like this.

 

[Jon]

Apple Fritter Auto
Dual Sombrero Training Observations
Day 41
@KeithLemon

So at this point my girl is all filled out and jamming. She was trained classic Dual Sombrero. And usually that results in two very tall and very obvious MAIN mains, and then a bunch of side branching that’s lower, but above the bottom ring. However, this plant decided to go nuts, especially up top. The side branching up top has basically matched (almost) the two main colas from the topping. It basically looks like a plant on top of a plant. Pretty cool and awesome for yield, but it isn’t going to quite end up looking like a sombrero. More like an overblown 10-gallon hat. Lol!

Here you can see what I mean. She’s a handsome girl.

 

[KeithLemon]

Apple Fritter Auto
Dual Sombrero Training Observations
Day 41
@KeithLemon

So at this point my girl is all filled out and jamming. She was trained classic Dual Sombrero. And usually that results in two very tall and very obvious MAIN mains, and then a bunch of side branching that’s lower, but above the bottom ring. However, this plant decided to go nuts, especially up top. The side branching up top has basically matched (almost) the two main colas from the topping. It basically looks like a plant on top of a plant. Pretty cool and awesome for yield, but it isn’t going to quite end up looking like a sombrero. More like an overblown 10-gallon hat. Lol!

Here you can see what I mean. She’s a handsome girl.

Damn your plants look nice it definitely shows you know what you are doing Jon.

 

[InTheShed]

Abe Lincoln would be proud to wear that hat!

Hey @InTheShed - thanks. Yes, I top water the roots in the pot of coco every time I water when I do it that way. In fact, I got to the point where, if the res needed a gallon say, I would simply water the coco and let the runoff water the res. I think (and read somewhere) that keeping those upper roots wet is important. In examining root balls (which you’ve done PLENTY of, lol) I see how the roots themselves form, where basically every root except the tap is a feeder. They all have those little wispy sucker-upper things on them so they’re all “fibrous,” if that makes sense. Therefore I feel to not water the upper coco pot is eliminating a source of feeding - it’s ripping off the plant. I’ve also found that it’s important to not use too small of a pot up top. At least a gallon. I tried the last White Widow in the super small pot scenario (half gallon upper pot, 5-gallon bucket res) and for whatever reason it didn’t work out too well. The weed was fine, just like WW always is, but the plant was smaller than it should have been. I know it’s only one example and to draw a conclusion from that is weak, but I just really felt the small pot was the culprit. Just can’t explain it yet. Lol.

Does any of that answer your question or help?

It does help, thanks! I really want to top water it to get some moisture in the soil, but with the plant doing so well I'm hesitant to change a single thing.

 

[Jon]

Abe Lincoln would be proud to wear that hat!

It does help, thanks! I really want to top water it to get some moisture in the soil, but with the plant doing so well I'm hesitant to change a single thing.

@InTheShed - I get that - there’s something to the “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” thing. I’d tend to go with your thought - she’s doing so well, why change anything. Maybe once every two or three feedings maybe hit the upper pot?

 

[InTheShed]

@InTheShed - I get that - there’s something to the “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” thing. I’d tend to go with your thought - she’s doing so well, why change anything. Maybe once every two or three feedings maybe hit the upper pot?

I had a thought this morning: what if the reason the soil doesn't get wet is because the res is too small? Even though I give it a gallon every morning, what if it would take more? So I've been adding water to the res every two hours since 9am (when it got the gallon) and it's taken another 3/4 of a gallon so far (6 hours). By the time I put it in the shed it will definitely have taken another whole gallon, and an hour before I do I'll run another bbq skewer test to see where that water went!

 

[Jon]

I had a thought this morning: what if the reason the soil doesn't get wet is because the res is too small? Even though I give it a gallon every morning, what if it would take more? So I've been adding water to the res every two hours since 9am (when it got the gallon) and it's taken another 3/4 of a gallon so far (6 hours). By the time I put it in the shed it will definitely have taken another whole gallon, and an hour before I do I'll run another bbq skewer test to see where that water went!

I went through several rigamaroles about this, even if what I was doing is a bit different - a lot of the same questions/concerns. Now you’re on the “if the res is always full maybe the roots don’t need watered up top” point. I went there too. Since I’m much more wasteful than you (lol), I settled on both. I kept the res full at all times and also kept the pot constantly wet. You saw the roots I got from that WWC - they were ridiculous. I feel (can’t prove) that part of why the res roots do well is because the roots above them do well. I tried to see it as a system with two watering points. One feeds the other. If that makes sense.

 

[InTheShed]

Crazy roots I can only dream of! If it needs constant watering I have no idea how to sort that out short of an uncarryable larger res. On the plus side it's so far so good as is, but this ain't full flower yet.

After this experiment I'll see how twice a day does during the week. Might have to quit my job!

 

[Azimuth]

After this experiment I'll see how twice a day does during the week. Might have to quit my job!

Good to see your priorities are in the right place.

 

[NickHardy]

Jon - you had me at hello (plus that Sombrero is just the prettiest little plant that can!)

Two real things I thought about catching up here. From two the most meticulous growers I read.

I think (and read somewhere) that keeping those upper roots wet is important.

I know I read @Emilya Green saying that a few months back. Not sure she was the first but its what she observes and what I want 360 degrees (below ground!)

had a thought this morning: what if the reason the soil doesn't get wet is because the res is too small?

Probably more helpful to think in percentages here because my sample size is small and small scale!

But the 16oz Solo SIP had a 3oz res a little more so call it 20% of the total volume.

That was taking two full res plus top watering every day. 100ml twice a day.

Think my conversion is rightish.

They drink!

Nick

 

[DV8]

Pretty cool and awesome for yield, but it isn’t going to quite end up looking like a sombrero. More like an overblown 10-gallon hat. Lol!

Whatever its called its working!

Definitely inspiring. Going to have to try this out, outdoors season is creeping closer this end of the globe.

Here you can see what I mean. She’s a handsome girl.

Indeed! Sexy mate, sexy asf.

 

[NickHardy]

I want a full on sculpture of JR Ewing

Thank you kindly, Siir!

Nick (Southern Boy - albeit different country!)

 

[Jon]

I want a full on sculpture of JR Ewing

Thank you kindly, Siir!

Nick (Southern Boy - albeit different country!)

Lol! I don’t know about JR (although sadly I watched the stupid show back in the day), but I’ve been consulting with LightAddict on my next project, and I think you’ll dig it. I’m going to create the Great Pyramid, to scale, of buds.

 

[Jon]

Age Check

Tent:
Dos Si Dos Day 52
2x Watermelon Wedding Cake Day 49
2x Platinum Mimosa Cookies Day 48

420h/Blurple Closet:
Gorilla Zkittlez Day 59
Pink Rozay Day 43
Apple Fritter Day 42

Here’s front and back tent view and the closet.

 

[Jon]

Raven ZZ

Hey @Azimuth, remember this girl? For those who haven’t seen, this is my prize Raven ZZ. When I adopted her she was dying in a three gallon pot that had been overgrown for a year. She was in bad shape. So I took her and uppotted her to a GeoPot 7-gallon, and introduced her to GeoFlora nutrients and Fox Farms Ocean Forest soil. That was a year ago. About three months ago I again uppotted her to this ten. At that point she went nuts. So I defoliated her. Look at how this plant is formed. How exactly would you defoliate a plant like this? I decided to take whole stalks. It was the right call. Now she has space in every direction. So at that point the plant put out its seeding shoots. These come up and then take a 180 degree turn and bury themselves in the soil. A month later we get new growth. It’s fascinating. The color is too. The way she is now - green mostly - is temporary. She turns black. Every leaf. It’s beautiful. I hadn’t posted in a long time about her, but it’s interesting that all my pot skills applied to this plant work just great. Yay.

In the pictures below you can see everything I was talking about and the seeding shoots and new growth is arrowed.