Jon's New Pared Down Setup Soil Grow: 3 Photo & 1 Auto With New Dedicated Auto Rig

[Emilya Green]

But to say light leaks CANNOT cause a plant to go hermie, and that it's inaccurate to think otherwise, well, dear, at this point I disagree strongly. And that's okay. Show me some science, not just your opinion on this. Educate me if you can.

I don't think that I said that. I have seen hermis due to light leaks, but I have also seen a few successful grows with veg and Bloom on opposite sides of a basement with no dividers. The inverse square law and the negligible power of reflected light makes this possible.

 

[Jon]

I don't think that I said that. I have seen hermis due to light leaks, but I have also seen a few successful grows with veg and Bloom on opposite sides of a basement with no dividers. The inverse square law and the negligible power of reflected light makes this possible.

My apologies, I just went back and re-read your post. I misinterpreted what you said. Didn't mean to call you out over my own silly mistake, sorry kiddo. Lol. And thanks for the inverse square law and such. Going to school.

 

[bluter]

Little chance of that, we keep them in short supply for a reason.

Funny how there are lots of people out there who will swear that light leaks caused their hermies... My experience is that with my bloom door open to let cool air in, the veg light around the corner doesn't bother my crop nor does the occasional hallway light coming on due to its motion sensor, just outside of the bloom room. Reflected light seems to be so weak that it doesn't bother the plants, it is direct light shining right on the plants that will cause trouble, and I have seen pilot lights on space heaters and such cause problems in the grow room. Light can cause hermies, but only with prolonged and reoccurring exposures.

i use a room in room approach and have never had light issues causing hermies. i don't worry about the main rooms being light tight at all. i am more mindful in flower though.

You mean like placing a dehumidifier in the tent with your first scrog that has an always on green bright light, but because some idiot told you green light won't do anything and like a moron you believed that and let the dehumidifier shine that bright green light in the middle of the scrog attempt for a month? Like that kind of light leak?

odd. i've used dedicated green led as in room work lights before. hated using them but we had three 8 x 8s going simultaneous in flower so it was hard to get to all the plants during the day cycle. we encountered no issues using them.

i think it depends on how deep green the light is. if it carries a lot of white i'd be wary.


good looking grow jon. i like the training.

 

[Jon]

i use a room in room approach and have never had light issues causing hermies. i don't worry about the main rooms being light tight at all. i am more mindful in flower though.



odd. i've used dedicated green led as in room work lights before. hated using them but we had three 8 x 8s going simultaneous in flower so it was hard to get to all the plants during the day cycle. we encountered no issues using them.

i thing it depends on how deep green the light is. if it carries a lot of white i'd be wary.


good looking grow jon. i like the training.

I was dumb. I knew better, Damn thing didn't do crap anyway. Maybe lowered it 5%. Not worth what happened by ten trillion miles. That scrog was a pound and a half EASY. And yeah, I really should not have taken the chance since I had no clue a light green bright light would cause any issues, but I have eliminated ALL other possibilities. Had to be that if it was external.

Thanks!

 

[bluter]

most times it's just genetics coupled with the right type of stress on the plant at the right time. some strains are more prone to hermie than others as well.

in many cases it's just bad luck .. ie : all the variables just happen to line up.

it should be noted when those 8 x 8s were up we ran mostly regs at the time and culled males early. it might be a bias but i still kinda feel regs are more robust and less prone to hermie. we did run fems as well, but we had no real issues with either, and used green led work lights with both.

 

[Emilya Green]

I use green worklights when necessary... but there is a big difference between a light that is used occasionally and only for a few hours and one that is on and shining brightly, every single moment of every night.

 

[bluter]

I use green worklights when necessary... but there is a big difference between a light that is used occasionally and only for a few hours and one that is on and shining brightly, every single moment of every night.

anything constant should be blacked out. there's a lot of over reaction or blaming on light leaks though when i'd look at other things.

 

[Jon]

I use green worklights when necessary... but there is a big difference between a light that is used occasionally and only for a few hours and one that is on and shining brightly, every single moment of every night.

yup

 

[Jon]

Slurricane Photoperiod Training Update
Grow/Veg Day 58

Like many of us, I have been following @Tokin Roll's master class in scrog with his current sponsored 4x4 grow. That led to my usual thing of peppering him for information, lol. Luckily me and Tok get along well so he was gracious enough to answer all my questions. Based on those discussions, Tok, without knowing it nor intending it, hit me in my "oh yeah, watch THIS" bone. He unintentionally made me remember a few maxims I try to now garden by, one of which is common, the other of which I got from @Emilya:

1. Go BIG or go HOME
2. Garden like a BOSS

What I mean specifically is that when we were discussing training and creating bud sites, I was asking his advice on how best to recreate what he has going on with these current photos, but on a plant by plant basis and without a screen. My god would a screen make this easier, but as I've said, it just isn't possible for me. I could do it, but I would have to compromise, and I am not willing to. I found another way. So in that discussion, what Tok was basically telling me, the way I took it, is this:

The idea is to create as many bud sites as you possibly can before the stretch, and if you want to go BIG, you should make as many as you are capable of controlling through the stretch. (Correct me if that is inaccurate, Tok, please, but that's what you basically mean, right?

The reason that hit me in that particular bone is because I thought I already had enough bud sites. I thought I WAS going big. Tok basically said to MAN THE HELL UP. Again, this was not his intent nor his words, just the way I took it as a personal challenge.

So I ripped the Slurricane apart. Correctly. Oh, Tok, my friend, I KNOW how to make bud sites. I was being too conservative. THANKS MAN!

This is pretty much my idea of exactly how you create bud sites. Think this will get it done, Tok?

 

[bluter]

have you ever tried quadding or mainlining ?

 

[Jon]

have you ever tried quadding or mainlining ?

I do nothing to the plant (this is photos only) until the 5 node is out. Until that I work the root ball. Once the 5th is well out I use Uncle Ben's method and chop her between node two and three. That always, with every single plant by definition, gives me or anyone else six main dominant branches. That is where I began with these photos, and by the time I flip them all three of them will have 50-60 legit bud sites, maybe more. So to answer your question, no, not by strict definition have I tried those techniques specifically, but I would argue that my way is equally effective. That said, I have observed many people who do it using those techniques, and I absolutely love the symmetry you get from those. And it could be argued that both those methods are easier and less work than mine. But to me, mine is just sort of a bastardized version of mainlining. I stretch all six branches out wide and flat and defol like a madman in the interior, and it's much the same result. But I will be specifically trying those methods in a future journal. Since you're asking, I guess you have used them both? Good! I'd love to have you as my go-to guy when I take on that challenge for the first time. Cool? And thanks!

 

[bluter]

i pretty much tie everything up. your approach is closer to how i run the clones. there's no real method to it.
i've run a few quads recently and have done lst previous.

before that i was involved in a larger grow where we merely topped twice and tied a couple branches but that was it.

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

@Jon Amigo that looks great! That’s a lot of work too. But damn is she going to look pretty in bloom. Man! You guys are masters. I haven’t been keeping up with my log but I do have two new plants going. One of them did something crazy around the third node and it looks like it kinda “topped” itself. To be honest I think it’s cool as heck and treating it like a gift from the Ganga gods. Ha! Is it cool to post a pic of it here Jon? Want some opinions from you scrog freaks on how I should treat this plant. The other plant I have topped and would like to top it once more and call it good. Any help with that would be most appreciated. @bluter mind describing how you would go about double topping in that large grow? And I damn sure hope I’m not out of line posting this here Jon. If so I apologize.

NTH

 

[Jon]

@Jon Amigo that looks great! That’s a lot of work too. But damn is she going to look pretty in bloom. Man! You guys are masters. I haven’t been keeping up with my log but I do have two new plants going. One of them did something crazy around the third node and it looks like it kinda “topped” itself. To be honest I think it’s cool as heck and treating it like a gift from the Ganga gods. Ha! Is it cool to post a pic of it here Jon? Want some opinions from you scrog freaks on how I should treat this plant. The other plant I have topped and would like to top it once more and call it good. Any help with that would be most appreciated. @bluter mind describing how you would go about double topping in that large grow? And I damn sure hope I’m not out of line posting this here Jon. If so I apologize.

NTH

Nope, you're good man, that's how we all learn. We just try not to do like six or seven posts of non-journal post stuff in a row, that's all. Post away! Easier to lend assistance when we can see what you have going on.

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

I appreciate that. Most definitely not a derail here. Just thought this plant was kinda freaky and had never seen anything like it to my knowledge on the forums. I remember a mutant if I’m not mistaken. But anyways here it is.

Been tied down almost 24 hours. Like it skipped a node on one side then added it later. I just pulled it down to expose all of that “extra” stuff. I might just leave it like that just for kicks. Just think it is a unique opportunity to raise a unique plant so wanted to share. Peace to all.

NTH

 

[Jon]

I appreciate that. Most definitely not a derail here. Just thought this plant was kinda freaky and had never seen anything like it to my knowledge on the forums. I remember a mutant if I’m not mistaken. But anyways here it is.

Been tied down almost 24 hours. Like it skipped a node on one side then added it later. I just pulled it down to expose all of that “extra” stuff. I might just leave it like that just for kicks. Just think it is a unique opportunity to raise a unique plant so wanted to share. Peace to all.

NTH

Well I see what you mean. I wouldn't worry about that. Just accept it as it is which you appear to be doing. It IS really cool looking. More importantly, it looks way healthy. That and training are all you need worry about. If you can keep her looking like this for the whole life of the plant you will produce sweet buds!

So looking at your plant, regarding the training, if you don't mind I'll make a comment and a suggestion or two. The comment is that you have the right idea and you're on the right track. The suggestion is specific. You see the tallest branch with the weirdness you were talking about? Tie it down flat. I use wooden skewers, the 12" real thin kind you find in the BBQ section at the grocery store, then wrap a twist tie around it three or four times near the top. Then take a plain old piece of scotch tape and wrap it tightly around the ball of wrapped twist tie so it stays nice and solidly attached to the skewer. That's it. Just make a tight hook at the other end of the twist tie and use that hook to grab the branch wherever you want and push in the skewer. They are perfect for training, especially autos, and I highly recommend them. Note that while there are probably 40 skewers in each of my photos controlling the action, you see hardly any of them. That's what I want. Nothing to create shadows, plenty long enough to go in the soil and stay in place, and plenty thin and pointed so you minimize root damage when you put them in. Here's why you tie it down - you see that there are three bud sites on that branch? When you lay it down flat those will start to quickly grow straight up. Voila, you just made three more buds. If it were me, I would also tie flat the branch on the left with the one bud site on it. There's another bud. You're already up to four and you just started. And by letting them grow straight up, obviously they are fully exposed to light and not blocked by a leaf, and they will develop other nodes as they grow. You can repeat this process and customize your placement of where you tie the branches out as they develop. Just remember that light = growth. And flat branches pulled out = every node on the branch becoming a bud that will grow straight up. That's essentially the micro-version of what I do. But regardless of how you train, that's how to create buds. You gotta expose the new growth at the nodes to light as early as possible and put them in a position to grow vertically on their own.
Hope that helps!!!

 

[Jon]

PHOTOTOWN UPDATE
AUTO RIG IS DEFUNCT
NEW OUTDOOR RIG IN PLAY
RELOCATION OF THE AUTOFlOWERS AND AUTOFLOWER FOCUS
Day 59

So we changed up a bit due to the impending outdoor grow. That grow, just now starting and available to be seen in my other journal, contains extended posts on the outdoor infrastructure I created for the plants, so please check it out if you want the skinny on the structure housing the autos in the pictures. They both live in the space you see them in til the photos are ready for that space in the outdoor grow, at which point these two autos go into the new auto rig next to the new outdoor photo rig, also shown in the other journal as it's a part of that grow really.

But all that said, let's talk about this juicy ass Sour Apple. I have grown this strain three times now. This plant has BY FAR, I'm talking universes, WAY WAY more frost than any other Sour Apple I have grown yet. I attribute that to the Sohum soil and to the religious adherence to ph-ing every drop of water she ever gets to 6.3. Those are the only two differences from the last Sour Apple, Sue Anne, the giant one bud plant that just grew one huge cola. It's truly astounding, the plant looks like it's silver and shimmering there's so much frost. And we have a month to go yet. WOWZERS.

I also tried my first stab at the back cutting technique that @Emilya has been displaying in her GSC Comparative Grow Journal. I would encourage you to read this if you haven't already. It's an amazing journal full of super solid information. So using her method as demonstrated, I tried it on just one of the Sour Apple buds. We'll see what happens. Maybe a bit too early, but she showed photos and I have autos, so the timing of the cut may be off, but we'll see. Just one to see what happens to my auto doing it. There are pics to show this bud. Thanks so much for that particular piece of education, E.

The Chunkadelic continues her greening back up and refiring on all cylinders. She has greened up significantly since we fixed the yellowing issue. She'll get greener yet, but this is much improved as you can see in the pictures. Her buds are back to going nuts, and MAN is this plant a yielder for an auto. And she's HUGE, by far the biggest auto I have grown. The picture of both plants side by side is an interesting comparison of a huge auto next to a tiny auto. Lmao. All is good with Chunky now.

Both of these are relocated to the new rig, because it contains the @Mars Hydro FC-E6500, the new light. It is for the photos in the outdoor grow, but until they arrive the two autos will live in this rig as shown and then move next door for the last few days of their lives if they aren't done already.

So there's your auto update for the night. Eagles destroyed Atlanta too. Good day. Heh.

The porn:

- Sour Apple from the top on Day 59
- SA bud shot 1 showing some serious frost
- SA in total under new light at full power showing her silvery coating (this photo was taken with light at 20%)
- SA bud shot 2 showing the bud I back cut from the top
- Side shot of the specific back cut bud
- Chunkadelic whole plant
- Chunky side angle shot 1 showing recovery and greening back up
- Both autos side by side in new outdoor rig showing vast difference between a large and small autoflower

Tomorrow we'll go through the changes in the Phototown tent now that Chunky is gone, and check the three photos in totality.

 

[Jon]

PHOTOTOWN LOOKING A LITTLE DIFFERENT!!!
Complete Phototown Update
September 13
Grow/Veg Day 59

So here we are on the cusp of the legendary 60 days in veg mark. Which in JonWorld means we can flip these girls whenever we want to now that Chunky lives in the Outdoor Rig along with the Sour Apple. The girls finally have the tent to themselves! Well, almost. They do still share space with a small tray of seedlings, ie, the current outdoor grow plants for the grow just beginning in my other journal. There's a picture of 6 of the 7 plant of that grow which have sprouted, with the Future #1 photo seed hitting the dirt tomorrow morning when her little stem-let that popped from the seed gets long enough. But to these girls for THIS grow, those seedlings are of no consequence. They laugh at them. It's like kindergarten in there, I swear.

So of these three plants, the Ghost Train Haze and Slurricane are pretty much the same size. Both are about 15" high off the dirt at the canopy. The Hulkberry, who started a few days behind (technically she's on Day 57, who cares, close enough and it's a pain to write 7 different start dates with every update), AND was a bit of a runt from day one, is more like 11" high off the dirt, or at least that's how tall her canopy will be in the morning when she gets a training and defol session. The GTH is also getting that treatment in the morning. I like to train right after I water. The soil is wet on the surface and down. The little skewers I use to train stay in the dirt much better, so I get way better accuracy and control when I train with a wet pot. That's tomorrow for these two, they weren't ready today as the others all were.

I am going to give the plants until Day 70 and flip them on that day. We have plenty enough bud sites on each plant now and more on the way with tomorrow's training. The Slurricane got this severe treatment two days ago, look at her today! In eleven more days we will reassess, but as of this moment we are going to flip on Day 70 of veg.

This means in the next eleven days, every bud will be trained out and placed in their final pre-stretch position. We will attempt to keep the center ring as free and empty as we can, just like @Tokin Roll does in his current, very informative and helpful journal. If you're into scrog, I would encourage you to check out what Tok has going on over there it's pretty nutty. Anyway, the canopies are all going to be low. WAY lower than I have ever sent a plant to flower. And that's perfectly fine, because when day one of the stretch starts, we'll be ready to train through it like a big dog. But in 11 days we will start with flat canopies with tons of buds and see if we can maintain that as it grows out vertically for an entire stretch. It's quite challenging with this many bud sites. It becomes a game of sacrifice or not sometimes if you have so many they'll outgrow the other plants. ALL these girls are going to significantly increase in size during the stretch, easily they'll double, and I expect the GTH to triple. I will be adjusting the canopies/branches and all that, and also adjusting the height of the plants as necessary by removing layer of bricks as necessary. They laughed at me when I said I was gonna use bricks. Laugh away. They work GREAT. They're SOLID. They're SMALL if you want or BIG if you want. But that will also help to keep the canopies of all three plants even.

See, that's the double challenge in this wheelchair scrog without a scrog thing I am doing here. Not only do I have to train out the branches and separate colas and all the associated fun, I ALSO have to adjust the plants themselves, because the goal is that at the end of the stretch, when the bud sites are set, we will have, one way or another, an even flat canopy across all three plants. This is not easy, I can see already. I had no problem doing it with Sadie and ONE plant. But this is three different strains. And don't forget that on top of that, the plants MUST rotate til I harvest. Otherwise I can't work the entire plant as required, and part of the whole point of how I do this. So I gotta somehow pull of the perfect Goldilocks treatment in this tent and have three plants of three different strains all flat topped at the same level post stretch and they can't be TOO wide or I won't be able to rotate them, and they can't be TOO small because we're already starting at such a low height that our buds can only already get so big, or yeah big, whichever way you think about it. They have to be JUST RIGHT for me to pull this off the way I want to. (See the dumb Goldilocks reference now?)

Anyone out there who may mistakenly think I have skills will soon see I do not. But I think I can do this right, and I KNOW I can get close. I have visualized it start to finish 1000 times, the girls are in extreme health, the canopies are best case scenairo....if I screw this up I only have myself to blame, but I will say I am set up well. I also have at my disposal, as we all do, the best in the business behind me. If I have a question you can bet I have folks to ask. As do we all!!

So bring it the fu-- on.

You guys wanna see some pretty good veg porn? Here's what I can offer tonight. These pictures are all from this evening and all taken at the same time. None of them have been retouched except for pumping up the clarity just a touch.

- Slurricane two days after last posted very aggressive training and defolation
- Ghost Train Haze the night before the aggressive treatment
- Hulkberry the night before the aggressive treatment
- The Gang in Phototown now super happy to have the common gutter autoflower out of their pristine temple
- The environmental conditions as they have been from Day One of veg
- Sneak Peek picture of the seedlings that are powering the Outdoor Grow that is just beginning, including 4
Strawberry Banana Autos, 1 Gelato auto, and one Raspberry Parfait photo.

Hope that got someone's rocks off.

 

[Jon]

Sour Apple Update
Specific Light/Spectrum Comparison with Photos
Check-In on Back Cut Bud
A Special Treat at Sunrise
Day 60

I am in love with this plant. I am also in love with Sohum soil, at least as it was used specifically on this plant. I will be duplicating the exact potting conditions with all the autos in the outdoor grow exactly as I planted this Sour Apple, which is actually displayed some pages back when I did it. The results are astonishing. If I had zero comparison points I would still feel that way cuz you really couldn't possibly look at this plant in person and not have your jaw hit the floor. Not cuz she's so big, but cuz she's so goddamn gorgeous. And beyond covered in frost. This is BY FAR the frostiest plant Jon has ever grown, and I mean it's not even close. Consider if you saw my scrog in bud right before I discovered it was seedy and cut it off how frosty those girls were. I thought at the time that was off the charts, every bud looked like Mt. McKinley. But this plant has completely rewritten my understanding of what a REAL plant looks like when you have made not one mistake in the entire life cycle of the plant, have it trained perfectly, fed her perfectly and have had her humming under the lights at just the right level for 60 days. I have never, not once, grown a plant that would make the previous sentence true on every level. Something has always gone wrong on some level. But I learn pretty fast, and with this plant I pulled off a best case scenario for her entire lifecycle (so far!). Among the results of this is just off the damn charts frost by anyone's standards. I also have the luxury of having grown this strain four times now including the sad one in the Photo Only Experimental journal. One of those four was grown under IDENTICAL conditions to this plant, at least prior to this plant's move to under the @Mars Hydro new brilliant awesomeness. The only difference was the soil. I have always used my Fox Farms soil blend, which works great. For the uninitiated, that blend is 40% FF Happy Frog/40% FF Ocean Forest/20% Perlite #3. I have loved it and it's way easy to work with. I have yet to get a bag from anywhere that had the slightest hint of and goddamn fungus gnats. Ok. This plant here was grown in Sohum, my first try with it. I used it on one auto and one photo - the Slurricane. This plant is very much like the others in terms of size and how she grew, and I will report for the record that this particular auto strain from Humboldt Seed Company is an extremely consistent phenotype. It also tastes amazing, very complex, and looks like a dream in the bag. Smells super fruity and dank. Awesome auto despite it's not so huge size. I'd buy it from a dispensary. But now I have seen what she does in Sohum, and it's hard to explain the impact this has had on me. Sohum rocks, it destroys my soil mix, and now the only test left is the taste test, but I don't even have to take that test to know the answer, nor will you when you see the pictures today. It's important to note that the Slurricane photo in this grow, also in Sohum, is my fastest growing plant and equally healthy and issue free as this girl. Now I know I want BADLY to get good enough as a short term goal, like right now, to get this level of health and this level of performance from every plant I have going, regardless of the soil they are in. And I can and I will and I'm going to show you.

If you notice a difference in my tone today, I would like to spend a sentence or two saying thank you very much to @InTheShed. Funny how one comment sometimes, said in the right way, from just the right person in that moment, can impact a person. That's what happened with me following Shed's comment to me in @HashGirl's journal last night. He impacted me. In a way positive way. In a nutshell, he somehow made me understand that I DO know a thing or two, and I don't have to qualify my opinion every time I express it. That was big for me believe it or not, as I had intentionally been putting the brakes on due to not really knowing anyone here. But now people are starting to speak to me as if I've been around five minutes. It's cool as hell. So THANKS Shed! I'm gonna be myself, not my "be extra nice to everyone and make a good impression" Jon. That's all great but it's tiring. You guys know who I am by now if you care, and believe me I'm perfectly fine with that dude. If I come off as egotistical I assure you I am not.

Onwards. So we talked about the plant and the soil. Here's an extremely cool thing related to light. This Sour Apple is the plant of the two in the outdoor rig that is closest to the sun, Chunky is on the inside behind her as the sun rises. I have the sides opened for exactly this reason but hadn't yet observed it closely on a gorgeous early morning sun. Lemme tell you guys, I'm about to lay on you some EXTREME and SUPER JUICY bud porn. Included in that porn is a comparison two picture series of the bud I tried the backcutting technique on, so we can see what if anything is happening to that so far.

What I did was a study in the light. So I have a mini series of pictures to display this for you, ten pics in all, each addressing the plant in a different way. Here's what we've got:

Picture 1 is maybe my favorite picture I ever took. It is the sunrise view of the Sour Apple. Enjoy.
Pictures 2-4 are the Sour Apple off her perch, out of the rig, on the ground, and completely and only getting hit with the rising sun you see in the first picture.
Pictures 5-6 are our girl back under the Mars Hydro FC-E6500, placed so that in the pictures she is only getting hit with LED and no sunlight or minimal sunlight. I am seeking name suggestions for the light, btw.
Picture 7 is the plant on the ground, in the front side of the rig facing sunlight, and getting hit with all the LED and all the sunlight has to offer at 9 am today. This plant is lit up WAY beyond a Christmas tree in this picture and it looks astounding. The great part is that both plants get about three hours of this a day. I'm going to rearrange them so they are front back instead of side by side, so that both plants get this treatment.
Pictures 8-9 are a closeup of the top and a view from the side of the bud that I tried @Emilya's backcutting technique on, on day two post the cut. Can't say I see any change except where I cut turned brown. Lol. We will keep watching. My timing could easily be off, I guessed based on her display and tried to compare the auto life to photo life to figure out the timing. No idea if I got it right or not. Heh.
Picture 10 is just a side shot of the girl specifically to display the leaves. Take a look at how these leaves are right now. Today is watering day and this is the first time I have intentionally let her get dry as a bone during budding before watering again, to the point where we are beginning to see a droop. I will post an addendum picture of this same angle at noon, three hours post watering her. Let's compare them and see if the leaves are praying.

I'm no photographer, but these ain't bad, I gotta say. Hope y'all like the display.

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

Yea ten fo that girl is smoking hot.

NTH