Jon's First Outdoor Grow: Sugar Breath Photoperiod & Strawberry Banana Autoflower

[Rexer]

Great write up Jon! I'm excited to see mine get put into my old grow cabinet for a winter grow
Also I wanted to say how I'm always impressed by the eloquence of your write ups!

 

[Jon]

Very clear and I thank you Jon. As you know, I'm on a learning curve just like you, although obviously not as advanced, and really appreciate you answering my questions and helping me learn from the documentation of your grows.

Two quick questions when you get a chance:
Now that you've had a chance to grow in coco and have previously grown in soil; what would you estimate is the increase in yield using coco versus soil? I'm intrigued by the thought of perhaps using coco but just not sure I can commit the time necessary for their maintenance. Are there any other differences between using coco and soil, aside from extra watering during flowering, that require more maintenance?

Sure @kikikopa, no problem. Which will always be my answer. You know why? Cuz the people who were here before me TAUGHT me that this is how it's done. Sure, I like to be helpful. But you will never find a site where you'll get better help from more sources than here. We do as those who came before us, right? So please, I encourage you to continue to ask people for help. Not just me. As you know, there are tons and tons more qualified to answer most of your questions, lol. That said, it does appear I have some more experienced grower buddies here who keep an eye on me and don't really let me get away with erroneous sh-t. Lmao!!! So we're all good, my friend. Always.

To answer your questions:

1...(I can't stress this enough) - if you want the real deal answers concerning anything coco, my guru of choice is @Bill284. He will not lead you astray and his experience DWARFS mine. Just FYI. He's also a reasonably nice guy and pretty good about answering questions.

2. Again, I have no way to assess yield yet of coco vs. soil, as it's my first time and for me it's impossible to project that. But I would feel safe saying the difference between the two will be large, based on the difference I'm seeing in growth of one vs. the other at this point. That's about the best I can do on that.

3. I'll say with confidence, despite the first try, that if you're unsure about your level of commitment, you might be best to stick with soil. You can't slack on these. Not for one day. You might be able to get away with a before work/after work watering schedule, not sure. If that's a concern. Ask Bill if that might work or not based on an 8 hour work day.

4. Differences I see so far with coco vs. soil:

- it's not water more during flower, it's water more from day one, and it gets ridiculous within the first ten days
- it seems to be significantly more important to hit your 5.8 Ph number as close as you can every time, never vary. In Jon Land, 5.72 is NOT okay, whereas in soil at 6.3 I would let 6.22 go every time.
- you have to feed with every single watering, which tears you through some nutes, and calmag must ALWAYS be included and added first to your water...there IS no clean water only feeding, ever
- which also means you go through your share of Ph Up and Down, and it's essential to have these products for coco in my opinion
- the roots fill the pots extremely quickly and that will be true no matter what size pot I suspect...these are already filled completely
- the growth rate is seemingly around 40-50% faster than soil, maybe more. I'm guessing based on observation. But it's a TON faster.
- coco gives you an almost daily emotional boost as you can literally see daily growth every single day from a mile away, which starts the day with a smile every single time....unlike soil which can sometimes be like watching paint dry


That's what I can see so far pretty much. Most of that I learned from Bill. He's spot on about all of it.

How's that? Did I miss anything?

 

[Jon]

I just want to make a side point while we wait for Jon's answer. I am not sure there is an automatic increase in yield just because of using coco. I would submit that there might be a slight increase in yield simply because like a hydroponic setup, they are getting fed two or three times a day, and this is a decided advantage over a plant being grown organically, letting the plant decide how much to eat and not being fed aggressively. If one was to aggressively feed in a coco grow, I can see the plants getting bigger, because the grower is gardening like a boss and fertilizing like they mean it. To the contrary, if someone is following the advice out there warning to feed very lightly, giving only a bare subsistence diet while in the coco, I would expect a lighter yield than compared to an organic soil grow. Comparing someone aggressively feeding a regular soil grow using synthetic nutes with a coco grow, I think then the comparison has to be in each of the gardeners resolves to feed like they mean it, or not. The sizes of each comparison plant would then be exactly in proportion to the amount of feed they got, not a difference between coco and soil.

That is 100% precisely the way I see it. Coco is simply a neutral medium. The plant eats only what you give it. If you're gonna do coco, you had BEST be prepared to garden like a boss and hit them with real amounts of nutes. Perfectly said.

 

[Bill284]

Sure @kikikopa, no problem. Which will always be my answer. You know why? Cuz the people who were here before me TAUGHT me that this is how it's done. Sure, I like to be helpful. But you will never find a site where you'll get better help from more sources than here. We do as those who came before us, right? So please, I encourage you to continue to ask people for help. Not just me. As you know, there are tons and tons more qualified to answer most of your questions, lol. That said, it does appear I have some more experienced grower buddies here who keep an eye on me and don't really let me get away with erroneous sh-t. Lmao!!! So we're all good, my friend. Always.

To answer your questions:

1...(I can't stress this enough) - if you want the real deal answers concerning anything coco, my guru of choice is @Bill284. He will not lead you astray and his experience DWARFS mine. Just FYI. He's also a reasonably nice guy and pretty good about answering questions.

2. Again, I have no way to assess yield yet of coco vs. soil, as it's my first time and for me it's impossible to project that. But I would feel safe saying the difference between the two will be large, based on the difference I'm seeing in growth of one vs. the other at this point. That's about the best I can do on that.

3. I'll say with confidence, despite the first try, that if you're unsure about your level of commitment, you might be best to stick with soil. You can't slack on these. Not for one day. You might be able to get away with a before work/after work watering schedule, not sure. If that's a concern. Ask Bill if that might work or not based on an 8 hour work day.

4. Differences I see so far with coco vs. soil:

- it's not water more during flower, it's water more from day one, and it gets ridiculous within the first ten days
- it seems to be significantly more important to hit your 5.8 Ph number as close as you can every time, never vary. In Jon Land, 5.72 is NOT okay, whereas in soil at 6.3 I would let 6.22 go every time.
- you have to feed with every single watering, which tears you through some nutes, and calmag must ALWAYS be included and added first to your water...there IS no clean water only feeding, ever
- which also means you go through your share of Ph Up and Down, and it's essential to have these products for coco in my opinion
- the roots fill the pots extremely quickly and that will be true no matter what size pot I suspect...these are already filled completely
- the growth rate is seemingly around 40-50% faster than soil, maybe more. I'm guessing based on observation. But it's a TON faster.
- coco gives you an almost daily emotional boost as you can literally see daily growth every single day from a mile away, which starts the day with a smile every single time....unlike soil which can sometimes be like watching paint dry


That's what I can see so far pretty much. Most of that I learned from Bill. He's spot on about all of it.

How's that? Did I miss anything?

Well done Grass Hopper.
It's a ball isn't it.
Just keep raising your ppms and she will be a blast to watch.
I went away for a long weekend once and forgot to dim the lights in the veg room.
My temp gardener had no idea.
Fek I'm sure they grew a foot that weekend.
When you see them everyday it's not as noticeable as a 4 day break.
It is a little work, some days I mixed 600 L.
But I absolutely love it.
You have complete control of what happens.
Soil is great don't get me wrong but yeah slower growth and reaction to inputs makes my choice coco all day long.
Your a star my friend.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Jon]

Well done Grass Hopper.
It's a ball isn't it.
Just keep raising your ppms and she will be a blast to watch.
I went away for a long weekend once and forgot to dim the lights in the veg room.
My temp gardener had no idea.
Fek I'm sure they grew a foot that weekend.
When you see them everyday it's not as noticeable as a 4 day break.
It is a little work, some days I mixed 600 L.
But I absolutely love it.
You have complete control of what happens.
Soil is great don't get me wrong but yeah slower growth and reaction to inputs makes my choice coco all day long.
Your a star my friend.

Stay safe
Bill

Whatever I am, Bill, you have a lot to do with it.

 

[Jon]

Friday Night Porn Special
Boy Did My Life Just Get Easier By A MILE
LARGE autos on Day 40

Very happy the smaller autos are finished. No more autos until I pop the 2 Watermelon Weddingcake Double XL Autos, which arrive Monday. Along with Mimosa EVO photoperiod seeds.

Watermelon Weddingcake = Watermelon Zkittlez x Weddingcake. There is no downside to that combination I can see. I'm popping 2 of them and 1 Mimosa photo. And you all know Mimosa already but I don't. Never grown or smoked it. These seeds will be the very last plants planted in this grow, and for me in this state. After them, we're done, by necessity. Unless I can fit in a quick tent grow before I move, which I might if I can. Lol. We'll see when the tent is clear. It'll be a while yet with drying in there.

I'm just going to order a bag of coco and try these two autos in coco instead of Sohum. I wonder how big an auto will get in coco with 10 sun/10 LED? I'll use 7s for them and see if the autos in coco get bigger than the 7-gallon autos in Fox Farms with Geo or in the 7s with Sohum. I can't imagine a pot bigger than a 7 for an auto, even in coco. I would be beyond thrilled to find an auto can fill a 7 with roots with a month of growth left. If that is the case, you COULD use a bigger pot than a 7 in coco for an auto. My imagination is running wild. AND these are Double XL autos, whatever that means. The seller says it means they get BIG. Lol. And obviously I'll need the coco for the Mimosa. I don't know what I'll do with this common gutter SOIL I have. Screw the workload, I can do it. Besides, a bunch of the others will be gone by the time it gets unwieldy. No problem. Coco it is.

So among other things, as of now I no longer have to:

- Open and close the auto rig every morning and night
- Water by having to either reach way down or put a plant on a table one at a time (WAY easier)
- Lug water and whatever mix from the garage to the back for 5 autos - other than the coco plants these were rather work intensive between figuring out new ways to add non organic nutes to living (Sohum) soil, training, watering, etc., etc. The remaining plants are largely Geo nute based and can just be watered right from the tap.
- Stress having to figure out the best cardboard light blocking reality each time a piece of cardboard goes bad from weather - the other rig is simple blankets on nails to hold them and takes two seconds to button and unbutton
- Stress having to figure out new ways to take pictures of the same five plants for 90 days when they never move (lol)

But even happier than I am that the smaller autos are done are the bigger indoor/outdoor autos. Suddenly they find their overnight digs are wide open and comfortable. No two kids in one bunk bed any more. I suspect they'll like it very much, as that was getting to be quite the crowd in there. Now that the three coco monsters don't have to share space with them anymore, as they are now enjoying their first regular dark night of flower, these girls are humming right along. They're all four BEASTS, no other way to put it. And now that they have space, so do I to take some pictures that will hopefully show you the true beastly nature of these autos. Even the one in a 5 is beastly. Each plant looks a little different in color depending on where I was for the pic in relation to the light. In real life, all four are the exact shade of green you want. They all are the color of the 5th picture.

Here's the girls all happy in the newly rearranged digs, with a side shot and an overhead shot of each plant. They got watered late today, about an hour before this picture, and only one is not almost back up already. I love it Also, if you're someone who looks at the title of the pictures, they're mislabeled. The way they are listed here is accurate.:

1-2: Gorilla Zkittlez in 7 of Sohum
3-4: DSD #1 in 7 of Sohum
5-6: DSD #2 in 7 of Fox Farms with Geoflora Nutes
7-8: DSD #3 in 5 of Fox Farms with Geoflora Nutes.

Enjoy the weekend everyone! Sneak Peek - Raspberry Parfait Harvest Special tomorrow!

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

Looking schweet as always!

 

[Jon]

Looking schweet as always!

I'm looking at the second photo set, the Dos Si Dos in a 7, and seeing how fat those buds are already. We're only on day 40! For whatever reason, these buds on that plant are significantly larger in girth than the buds on the other three plants. At this point anyway. Pretty cool. Again, I better fricking like Dos Si Dos. Lol.

Thanks!

 

[InTheShed]

If you have a day job away from your house, I'm not sure coco would be the way to go. I have yet to see them go an 8 hour day without becoming WAY dry.

That's true outside for sure. but coco in a tent can be handled with an autowatering system. @Derbybud set one up in his tents (here's his flowering tent a while back) and he worked a lot more than 8 hours a day out of the house! His autowatering set-up is here:

Derbybud's automatic watering system: A tutorial

Greetings all! Here is a tutorial on how @Derbybud made his auto watering system. This is the basic information that folks are often asking him for...no reason he needs to keep repeating it. He's a busy guy :). These are his words...

www.420magazine.com

I wet trimmed them. It's by far not my preference, but it beats the crap out of bud rot.

100% why I wet trim. I can spot and deal with rot immediately, along with caterpillars and anything else that might negatively affect the buds while they hang dry.

I found the very beginning of bud rot on only ONE bud

Sorry to hear about it, but phewf on catching it early!

I'm about to run out of hanging locations.

LOL! Might I suggest drying boxes? This turned out to be 8.6 oz dry:

Fricking actual work messing with my work. Ha.

Hate that!

It's Friday! Yay!

I can't stop laughing at this poor Chocolope. This is the most twisted sprout I've ever had. She's a nut. But she's healthy and she's going to live and try to make the cut! But every time I look at her I laugh.

@Carcass is going to suggest you top that any day now.

But if not, there's more hanging space yet to be created. I gotta go into McGuyver mode this afternoon.

See drying box above... ↑

I promised the NL folks I would give an honest assessment. Now that the rig is dark (temporarily, hehe), it's time for that.

Great review Jon. You've done @NextLight proud!

 

[Jon]

That's true outside for sure. but coco in a tent can be handled with an autowatering system. @Derbybud set one up in his tents (here's his flowering tent a while back) and he worked a lot more than 8 hours a day out of the house! His autowatering set-up is here:

Derbybud's automatic watering system: A tutorial

Greetings all! Here is a tutorial on how @Derbybud made his auto watering system. This is the basic information that folks are often asking him for...no reason he needs to keep repeating it. He's a busy guy :). These are his words...

www.420magazine.com

100% why I wet trim. I can spot and deal with rot immediately, along with caterpillars and anything else that might negatively affect the buds while they hang dry.

Sorry to hear about it, but phewf on catching it early!

LOL! Might I suggest drying boxes? This turned out to be 8.6 oz dry:

Hate that!



@Carcass is going to suggest you top that any day now.

See drying box above... ↑

Great review Jon. You've done @NextLight proud!

Shed, thanks so much for the response. I love the way you highlight and detail each thing worth mentioning. Very cool. Couple things...

1. The box. GREAT IDEA!!!! Duh, that's so easy I hadn't even considered it. Thanks to the damn Zon I have so many perfect boxes for that it's ridiculous. And plenty of actual space and appropriately environmental places to put them. NICE. Geez, I don't have to be McGuyver after all. Jughead could handle this. Lol.

2. The 8 hour workday/watering in coco thing - yeah, I wasn't sure, which is why I steered him towards Bill. Lol. Poor guy. Getting all my coco questions now plus any others anyone asks. Lol. He's the man. That setup might work for me too and free up a ton of time for other tents and stuff. Thanks for the links and such.

3. Very much appreciate the kind words on the light review. Thank you.

 

[Jon]

Change of Plans....No Harvest Today
Not Quite Ready Yet
Raspberry Parfait
Grow Day 83
Flower Day 47

Had my boxes, my scissors, my pruners, and my scope and phone laid out on the big table outside. The plant was in position. But then I looked closely at the buds. She's not quite ready yet. There's a bunch of new growth spots of white hairs and such that popped out overnight. She's still fattening up for a couple more days. Very pleased to see that.

Here's four bud shots from the beautiful plant. See what I mean about new growth? Not ready. Yay!

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

She is a beauty! I hope my girl comes out looking HALF as good as that!

 

[Jon]

She is a beauty! I hope my girl comes out looking HALF as good as that!

She will! Just keep doing what you're doing, girl. You have a real good thing going on.

 

[Bill284]

Change of Plans....No Harvest Today
Not Quite Ready Yet
Raspberry Parfait
Grow Day 83
Flower Day 47

Had my boxes, my scissors, my pruners, and my scope and phone laid out on the big table outside. The plant was in position. But then I looked closely at the buds. She's not quite ready yet. There's a bunch of new growth spots of white hairs and such that popped out overnight. She's still fattening up for a couple more days. Very pleased to see that.

Here's four bud shots from the beautiful plant. See what I mean about new growth? Not ready. Yay!

Hey Jon good morning.
Beautiful buds.
What light are they under?
Are you doing anything different to cause new growth?

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Jon]

Hey Jon good morning.
Beautiful buds.
What light are they under?
Are you doing anything different to cause new growth?

Stay safe
Bill

Their light is 93,000,000 miles away from the top of the plant. I can't dial it in any better than that.

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

She will! Just keep doing what you're doing, girl. You have a real good thing going on.

I totally flubbed last night - I was smoking some of that dang Peanut Butter Breath and messed up 4 gallons of distilled water (and my girl NEEDS WATER). So today that distiller is gonna be running non stop. I’m also working it one gallon at a time and checking various strengths of both the calmag and the CNS17 Grow. Since the CNS17 has some calmag in it, I may drop the pure calmag in half so I can get the CNS17 up to the full 15ml/gallon without going over 900 ppms.

 

[Jon]

I totally flubbed last night - I was smoking some of that dang Peanut Butter Breath and messed up 4 gallons of distilled water (and my girl NEEDS WATER). So today that distiller is gonna be running non stop. I’m also working it one gallon at a time and checking various strengths of both the calmag and the CNS17 Grow. Since the CNS17 has some calmag in it, I may drop the pure calmag in half so I can get the CNS17 up to the full 15ml/gallon without going over 900 ppms.

LMAO. The PBB is no joke. Isn't it easier to just go grab a few 89 cent gallons of distilled at the store? Or no? Just to get you through the time it takes to distill?

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

LMAO. The PBB is no joke. Isn't it easier to just go grab a few 89 cent gallons of distilled at the store? Or no? Just to get you through the time it takes to distill?

I have to go out today anyway, so I may do that just to save some time. Moved the last of the coffee grounds from the big container last night to my weekly container so I GOTTA get coffee and creamer for the week; may as well get some water while I’m at it. I swear, as soon as I get some $$ I’m getting a small RO system even if I have to hook the damn thing up under the bathroom sink.

 

[Bill284]

Their light is 93,000,000 miles away from the top of the plant. I can't dial it in any better than that.

I thought you were half light half sun.
Sorry for the confusion.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Jon]

I thought you were half light half sun.
Sorry for the confusion.

Stay safe
Bill

Lol, no, it's easy to see cuz I was in both for veg. I get confused myself, which is why I have tons of charts written out all over the place. Veg was 20/4. 10 sun/10 MarsHydro FC-E6500. For flower they go all outdoors which is real close to 12/12.