Jon's Dedicated Fruity Pebble Cookies Grow Plus The Mystery Plant

[Jon]

Humorous Monday Post of the Day

This little whatever it is looks pretty good for a plant that just popped up in a spent soil pile and has lived so far completely unaffected by human hands. The funny part is going to be if/when she gets tall enough to be seen from the sidewalk. I've decided this plant is staying for as long as it's chugging along. It's our new front yard piece of landscaping. We're the only yard to have it. Lol.

 

[Bill284]

Jony Apple Seed.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Emilya Green]

Humorous Monday Post of the Day

This little whatever it is looks pretty good for a plant that just popped up in a spent soil pile and has lived so far completely unaffected by human hands. The funny part is going to be if/when she gets tall enough to be seen from the sidewalk. I've decided this plant is staying for as long as it's chugging along. It's our new front yard piece of landscaping. We're the only yard to have it. Lol.

Wouldn't work in my neighborhood... the teenagers that roam would be all over it.

 

[Jon]

Wouldn't work in my neighborhood... the teenagers that roam would be all over it.

Lol. Most of the folks here are so unaware of their surroundings that it's unlikely to ever even get noticed. I also have a petrified forest of big stems in pots still to block it's view if necessary. Those look pretty humorous outside in the front yard too. Lmao. Dumbasses.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Hola Jon and Azzie!

in a hempy bucket setup, the roots don't have any more space to play than they do in a regular potted plant system of the same size pot. So what difference does it make to use this method?

It kinda depends on what medium is used in a regular pot. If it contains any particles smaller than 1/8 inch, there will always be a perched water level - sometimes several inches high - which remains too saturated/anaerobic for roots. In a screened/rinsed perlite, the medium can be dried out more completely and roots will populate all the way down to the bottom of the bucket.

other) system as the "grow medium," what happens is that the feeder roots cannot get to the outside of the space occupied by the perlite.

What does this mean?

Instead, in this system, it seems they tend to send tap root(s) straight down into the reservoir. So many people using perlite only expressed angst over the time it takes to get to the reservoir through the perlite and the associate slow growth until that point, and often expressed a significant "make up" time. I wasn't real thrilled with that either.

Indeed - this is a common complaint - but this issue can be easily addressed. Simply start your seedling in a small container like a solo cup. Plant your seed (or sprout) so that the root only has to go a couple inches (at most) to reach the reservoir hole. And do the same when up-potting.

Also, during veg, one can encourage the roots to more fully populate the perlite by letting the reservoir go empty for a day (or even two) - the perlite will still be moist.

I periodically let the coco dry to bone dry - maybe three or four times in veg, not in flower.

Just like this - but maybe not “bone dry”.

My guess having never done it is that I can match any hempy bucket setup plant size for size with my current coco setup, or beat it.

I believe you could - go for it!

 

[Jon]

Hola Jon and Azzie!


It kinda depends on what medium is used in a regular pot. If it contains any particles smaller than 1/8 inch, there will always be a perched water level - sometimes several inches high - which remains too saturated/anaerobic for roots. In a screened/rinsed perlite, the medium can be dried out more completely and roots will populate all the way down to the bottom of the bucket.


What does this mean?


Indeed - this is a common complaint - but this issue can be easily addressed. Simply start your seedling in a small container like a solo cup. Plant your seed (or sprout) so that the root only has to go a couple inches (at most) to reach the reservoir hole. And do the same when up-potting.

Also, during veg, one can encourage the roots to more fully populate the perlite by letting the reservoir go empty for a day (or even two) - the perlite will still be moist.

Just like this - but maybe not “bone dry”.

I believe you could - go for it!

Hiya @FelipeBlu! Thanks so much for this!

First, a truth.
Jon said:
My guess having never done it is that I can match any hempy bucket setup plant size for size with my current coco setup, or beat it.

This was a cocky statement based on the 15 or so grow journals I saw last night (not here) of folks doing it various ways. In all of those I saw nothing close to your plants. When I saw yours this morning I instantly regretted that statement, but as usual I let my embarrassment hang in case it helps someone, lol. What you have going on with those is what I'm looking for pretty much. I haven't come close to that yet. That said, this current coco grow is my first trying coco not only from the gate, but also with the full intention of making as big a plant as I can with giant buds and a canopy. I modeled the training after my impression of @West Hippie's plants. I have them in 7s and already have seen what they can produce in a 3. This is a shot of Fulvia's mighty canopy from today after their first night ever in the dark. It fascinates me how quickly the bud sites sort themselves out once you flip. This "sorting" as I call it seems to begin immediately, before any stretch. Anyway, if I have grown a plant yet that will approach what you have in those hempy's it's this one. So I guess we'll see.

Fulvia canopy after one night in the dark.jpg

• Jon
• Apr 18, 2022

For reference, this plant is 4+ feet tall and her canopy is about 3 1/2 - 4 feet across in all directions.

Next, the rest:
All you said here is very interesting, and thanks. I figured there had to be tricks to mitigate the concerns I was seeing or people wouldn't grow this way. I'm fledgling (one night of research) on this, so I'm not really ready to talk about it intelligently yet or ask the right questions. But whether or not I can beat hempy in coco it's way interesting enough that I want to try it. When I'm ready to do that I would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't mind lending your ear?

Here's the canopy on the other Fruity Pebble Cookies, Elora. She's the indica version and no joke either.

Elora after one night of dark.jpg

• Jon
• Apr 18, 2022

Thanks again Felipe!

 

[FelipeBlu]

But whether or not I can beat hempy in coco it's way interesting enough that I want to try it. When I'm ready to do that I would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't mind lending your ear?

Anytime Jon!


Fulvia and Elora are awesome!

 

[FelipeBlu]

“feeder roots cannot get to the outside of the space occupied by the perlite.”

I’m still curious what you meant by this. Are you referring to air pruning? This actually promotes more lateral growth - you certainly won’t see any roots circling the pot.

 

[StoneOtter]

Hiya @FelipeBlu! Thanks so much for this!

First, a truth.
Jon said:
My guess having never done it is that I can match any hempy bucket setup plant size for size with my current coco setup, or beat it.

This was a cocky statement based on the 15 or so grow journals I saw last night (not here) of folks doing it various ways. In all of those I saw nothing close to your plants. When I saw yours this morning I instantly regretted that statement, but as usual I let my embarrassment hang in case it helps someone, lol. What you have going on with those is what I'm looking for pretty much. I haven't come close to that yet. That said, this current coco grow is my first trying coco not only from the gate, but also with the full intention of making as big a plant as I can with giant buds and a canopy. I modeled the training after my impression of @West Hippie's plants. I have them in 7s and already have seen what they can produce in a 3. This is a shot of Fulvia's mighty canopy from today after their first night ever in the dark. It fascinates me how quickly the bud sites sort themselves out once you flip. This "sorting" as I call it seems to begin immediately, before any stretch. Anyway, if I have grown a plant yet that will approach what you have in those hempy's it's this one. So I guess we'll see.

Fulvia canopy after one night in the dark.jpg

• Jon
• Apr 18, 2022

For reference, this plant is 4+ feet tall and her canopy is about 3 1/2 - 4 feet across in all directions.

Next, the rest:
All you said here is very interesting, and thanks. I figured there had to be tricks to mitigate the concerns I was seeing or people wouldn't grow this way. I'm fledgling (one night of research) on this, so I'm not really ready to talk about it intelligently yet or ask the right questions. But whether or not I can beat hempy in coco it's way interesting enough that I want to try it. When I'm ready to do that I would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't mind lending your ear?

Here's the canopy on the other Fruity Pebble Cookies, Elora. She's the indica version and no joke either.

Elora after one night of dark.jpg

• Jon
• Apr 18, 2022

Thanks again Felipe!

Yeah that's a sweet canopy!

 

[Jon]

“feeder roots cannot get to the outside of the space occupied by the perlite.”

I’m still curious what you meant by this. Are you referring to air pruning? This actually promotes more lateral growth - you certainly won’t see any roots circling the pot.

My bad @FelipeBlu,

I was attempting to express a concern I saw repeated numerous times from growers that when they used 100% perlite and pulled the roots at the end they found a lack of lateral (duh, that's the word I should have used, sorry to be confusing) growth. As you say, you won't see roots encircling the pot. I think they were thinking that it's compromising in some way to have a high concentration of roots going directly down to the reservoir like the tap root does and a much lesser concentration of the smaller "feeder" roots all to the lateral edges of the pot.

Does that clarify the statement adequately?

And if so, wish to address it? Lol.

Gracias!!

 

[Jon]

Titan Stretching in Real Time

You guys, I know I WANT to believe what I'm seeing and I'm fully aware that maybe this is just me. But I SWEAR this plant has stretched at least an inch or more since this morning. Tomorrow I'm going to measure at wake up and at like 6 pm and see for sure. Check out the tops stretch in particular. It appears that what's happening is the outer, lower ring of buds is stretching consistently but more slowly as a whole than the tops as a whole. The very middle tops and the next, 6-cola ring down appear to both be stretching about the same. Very interesting. This would perhaps make sense since they're obviously closer to the light I guess? I never considered whether different parts of the same plant might stretch at varying rates based on their proximity to the light and how they're trained. But it appears we may be seeing exactly that here? What does anyone think?

 

[FelipeBlu]

I think they were thinking that it's compromising in some way to have a high concentration of roots going directly down to the reservoir like the tap root does and a much lesser concentration of the smaller "feeder" roots all to the lateral edges of the pot.

This is another situation that can be easily addressed during veg by allowing the reservoir to go empty for a day or two after up-pot. The perlite will still be damp and the roots will spread out into it in search of moisture.

Feeder roots into the reservoir are okay, but the plant will have a lot more to draw on than just the reservoir during flowering if it has a system of finer roots throughout the perlite.

 

[Azimuth]

Titan Stretching in Real Time

You guys, I know I WANT to believe what I'm seeing and I'm fully aware that maybe this is just me. But I SWEAR this plant has stretched at least an inch or more since this morning. Tomorrow I'm going to measure at wake up and at like 6 pm and see for sure. Check out the tops stretch in particular. It appears that what's happening is the outer, lower ring of buds is stretching consistently but more slowly as a whole than the tops as a whole. The very middle tops and the next, 6-cola ring down appear to both be stretching about the same. Very interesting. This would perhaps make sense since they're obviously closer to the light I guess? I never considered whether different parts of the same plant might stretch at varying rates based on their proximity to the light and how they're trained. But it appears we may be seeing exactly that here? What does anyone think?

I'd bet it is more that those two mains are still recognized by the plant as the leaders and therefore get more nutrients and hormones directed to them.

Same concept as why we try to train to a "table-top" top, to have nothing sticking up and therefore attracting a disproportionate amount of resources.

By training everything flat, whether pulled down with LST, or twisted and bent over with Supercropping, or your favorite- topping, they all are trying at least in part to remove the dominant leader and make all the hormones and other resources get spread equally to all branches because they are all at the same level.

 

[InTheShed]

Congrats on the flip and all the general state of all the greenery! Didn't want to wait another moment to answer this question:

Why never top your autos, @InTheShed? That was surprising to hear. I've seen a couple of yours and it seemed you put them through your usual bag of tricks, including topping. Guess not. Do you not do it simply due to the lack of time for the tops to develop, or what's your reasoning? If you don't mind, just curious.

Wish Shed had answered why he doesn't top his autos, I'm torn as to what to do.

Sorry, had to get the taxes done, sorted, and mailed so apologies for not answering earlier.

All my autos (outside grown) seem to go into flower earlier than ones grown in a controlled environment, so by the time they were tall enough to top they were starting to show actual flowers. I've seen other outside auto growers face the same issue. For that reason I only used LST for my autos.

I gave them up over 3 years ago (with the rare exception of a DDA or two) because I was ending up with small plants with small harvests...a complete waste of time in my opinion.

The biggest outside autos I've seen were vegged inside and then put in the sun when they flowered. I figure being kept in a stable environment let them veg longer, and the sun helped them blow up in flower.

 

[FelipeBlu]

And here’s how to add about 20% to each watering using a medium that wicks.

Add about 20% of your normal volume (full reservoir). Wait about 10 minutes. Then add your normal volume (plus peeing volume of ~20% if in hempy).

The first 20% will immediately wick up. Then you can fill your entire reservoir and it won’t go down right away.

 

[Jon]

This is another situation that can be easily addressed during veg by allowing the reservoir to go empty for a day or two after up-pot. The perlite will still be damp and the roots will spread out into it in search of moisture.

Feeder roots into the reservoir are okay, but the plant will have a lot more to draw on than just the reservoir during flowering if it has a system of finer roots throughout the perlite.

Thanks, and that was what I understood you meant earlier. Glad every concern I have mentioned is easy enough to mitigate. I figured as much, just hadn't gotten around to talking to us folk yet. Lol.

 

[Jon]

Mystery Plant
Flower (the 2nd time, lol) Day 2

One could easily make the argument that this Mystery Plant is the most interesting thing going on in this grow. It represents the blindest I've ever flown, that's for sure. Here's a couple firsts it represents in my experience:

- first revegged plant (albeit unintentional)
- first revegged plant then sent back to flower
- first accidental hybrid I created (also unintentional)

On the first hybrid statement: this plant is from a seed that came from my Pineapple Upside Down Cake outdoor photo from the last grow. About a third of the branches on that plant got pollinated by a Strawberry Banana photo that had gone hermie and made balls and I hadn't caught it yet. When I brushed the plants together in moving them around (2 days in a row before I found and removed the hermie plant...damn) the PUC got a bit pollinated. So the seeds from that plant, I guess technically, are,
Pineapple Upside Down Cake X Strawberry Banana
Which I have occasionally referred to as
Pineapple Strawberry Upside Down Banana Cake

If that is so then this is a brand new strain and nobody has a clue what it will do. Especially me.

I don't exactly know what the hell kind of buds this plant believes it can make. The stems are all wispy thin. I can't see them supporting even a medium sized bud. They also don't appear as if they're going to make anything at all with significant mass. I can see a cherry tomato plant in my future with this one, with a bunch of little one gram buds all over it like little cherry tomatoes. Lol. But who knows? I guess that's supposed to be part of the fun.

I'm extremely curious about what is going to happen with this girl. As you see, she's by far winning the stretch battle after 2 nights. Basically going nuts, while the FPCs are just getting started. Odd odd plant for sure. If I do get buds off it, I do think the combo should be interesting and perhaps pretty fruity?

My one worry with this plant is that she goes hermie. I'm watching her like a hawk Just due to her being so weird and having been through so much, it wouldn't at all surprise me. I kind of expect it almost. Obviously if that happens she dies a spectacular death by fire. Or maybe stoning. Or maybe I'll just toss her in the pond. I almost pulled her out of the tent just because the FPCs are so spectacular and there doesn't exist a scenario where I would allow them to be compromised. Should know soon enough I would think.

Here's a shot of her top from overhead and the side. She sort of a little bit almost kind of looks like she has a canopy. Lmao.

 

[Jon]

Titan
There Be Budlets Here!

Yay!

Here's a budlet from one of the lower ring colas from the top and side. Last picture shows how the buds in the lower ring are stacking.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot the scale shot. Forgive Titan's droop, she just got watered.

Scale shot 4 19.jpg

• Jon
• Apr 19, 2022

 

[Jon]

Action in the Spent Soil Pile


Our intrepid little whatever is still chugging along, slowly, in the spent soil pile. She only gets around 12 hours of light a day, and most of that is compromised by shade. Poor thing. I thought she was looking pale. But I really don't want to feed her, it's just wasting nutes. So I came up with this idea:

How about I feed them the runoff water from the coco girls?

I had an entire shop vac filled with PB veg nute runoff from vacuuming out the tent two or three times. My logic, very simply, was "what the hell." It's a plant in spent soil, it might as well get a shot of spent nutes. Lmao. So the picture with the dark spot is the watering shot, and then there's a closeup.

We can call this one the Comic Relief Plant.

 

[BubbaKush909]

Morning Jon! Sometimes it seems like you're using your whole house as a grow room. One huge or about to be huge plant after another! And they all look so good. You're killing it bro.

Thanks for your response, and also Shed's (did the tax thing myself last Thursday lol). It's curious to me that Shed's outdoor autos were also small. In my situation all I want are plants yielding 1.5 to 2.5 z's, nothing huge. I've decided not to top the Strawberry Banana, I worry it's already too late. I'm growing it under one of the old BestVA lights, running the Veg setting only.

I always wondered what you anchored those stakes to lol. They make a lot more sense as supports. You're learning and teaching so much.

Another curious thing I'll mention. I'm growing 2 LSD-25's from FBA. Germed the same day, side by side, each has their own identical light, same everything. Plant 1 flowered on day 21, and plant 2 on day 25. Now at day 50 plant 1 is almost finished and if I'm lucky will yield 1z. Plant 2 is at least 2 weeks from finishing and while not large it should yield close to 2. I think both are too small, but otherwise are spitting images of each other, one half again as big as the other.

It's obviously something I'm doing. Lights, temps, humidity, soil, nutes. I have to think about this.

Great to see the hempy talk, that's exactly how I grew my clones in 2L's. Without fail the rootball would be so full that when I would pull it out almost no perlite would fall out. As Emilya noted one downside is the large numbers of plants, another thing I never liked was you really can't reuse perlite. It's so full of roots it's a mess and I'd just throw it all away. Since I have a yard and now a legit garden I can repurpose all this soil I'm growing in now and I like that.

Have a great day, we're still waiting for spring. It snowed yesterday.