I made the mistake of checking the news.
Holy crap Florida got hit bad.
Glad your ok Jon.
How is your community? Everything ok?
Stay safe
Bill284
Jon’s 3 Autoflower - 3 Pounds Attempt Grow
- Thread starter Jon
- Start date
Holy crap Florida got hit bad.
Glad your ok Jon.
How is your community? Everything ok?
Stay safe
Bill284
- Thread starter
- #1,022
@Bill284 - we were just a few miles south of the red zones that got hammered. We are not coastal, all we had to deal with was the rise from the Indian River, which feeds out canal system, ie, the pond out back. It rose about four feet or so total. We lost 3 trees in the backyard, all three of which were crappy I thought, so that’s no great loss to me, lol. The people in the coastal areas and north of here got utterly destroyed. It looks like a bomb hit in lots of places. The storm took out the bridge that connects Ft, Meyers to the mainland, and people in places like Sanibel have no homes anymore. There are boats in storefronts and cars washed into buildings all over the place. All the piers for fishing are gone with just the concrete pillars left. It was serious shit. We got very very lucky to be where we are. @oldmanjj did the right thing by evacuating, and he and his wife are so awesome that they are headed back over to assess damage and help people out. That’s amazing - spend your vacation helping others. Anyway, we’re fine and all is copacetic here. Thanks Sensei.I made the mistake of checking the news.
Holy crap Florida got hit bad.
Glad your ok Jon.
How is your community? Everything ok?
Stay safe
Bill284
Glad to hear you made it through the storm. Saw pictures on the news and looks pretty devastated in many places.
- Thread starter
- #1,024
White Widow
Day 59
This girl has just completely exploded out of nowhere. She got done her stretch and was doing okay I thought, and then she switched gears and started going crazy. I can see we are getting a ton of small, tight, sativa-esque buds from her, and it appears she’ll be quite productive. Meanwhile, the AC unit on this tent was my oldest one, and the compressor finally decided it was retiring. But it’s pretty cool and much drier here these days, only getting up to about 85-ish. I believe with just leaving the door open and the ton of moving air in there she will be fine. If she starts to bitch I’ll spring for the new unit as it’s inevitable anyway.
Here she is today.
Day 59
This girl has just completely exploded out of nowhere. She got done her stretch and was doing okay I thought, and then she switched gears and started going crazy. I can see we are getting a ton of small, tight, sativa-esque buds from her, and it appears she’ll be quite productive. Meanwhile, the AC unit on this tent was my oldest one, and the compressor finally decided it was retiring. But it’s pretty cool and much drier here these days, only getting up to about 85-ish. I believe with just leaving the door open and the ton of moving air in there she will be fine. If she starts to bitch I’ll spring for the new unit as it’s inevitable anyway.
Here she is today.
- Thread starter
- #1,025
Garden
Melissa and Medusa
Watermelon WeddingCake
Forbidden Runtz
Day 69
Res change this morning for the WWC. She seems totally happy, has no blemishes, and is continuing to build her base buds. This is about how fat the last plant was when the buds started to morph into actual buds vs. masses of white pistils. Everything *seems* okay, so we’re staying with it. There are just a ton of roots in the outer res now. I changed it out by hand, one sour cream container at a time. Too many roots now to risk sucking them up with the shop vac, least for me. Took a while but was much gentler.
The FR just keeps fattening up and getting denser and denser. Not much to do with this one - occasionally I’ll take a leaf or two, and I spin her every couple days, but that’s about it.
So here’s a full garden shot, a couple shots of the added bud supports installed around the WWC, and a couple bud closeups of a lower and upper bud.
Melissa and Medusa
Watermelon WeddingCake
Forbidden Runtz
Day 69
Res change this morning for the WWC. She seems totally happy, has no blemishes, and is continuing to build her base buds. This is about how fat the last plant was when the buds started to morph into actual buds vs. masses of white pistils. Everything *seems* okay, so we’re staying with it. There are just a ton of roots in the outer res now. I changed it out by hand, one sour cream container at a time. Too many roots now to risk sucking them up with the shop vac, least for me. Took a while but was much gentler.
The FR just keeps fattening up and getting denser and denser. Not much to do with this one - occasionally I’ll take a leaf or two, and I spin her every couple days, but that’s about it.
So here’s a full garden shot, a couple shots of the added bud supports installed around the WWC, and a couple bud closeups of a lower and upper bud.
Glad you're OK Jon. I was down in S FL in '91 for Andrew, I know the kind of devastation you're describing. Your ladies look incredible. I love that you shot for 3lbs out of 3 plants. That's the only way you could possibly describe this grow as a failure 
Fantastic job!
Fantastic job!- Thread starter
- #1,027
Thanks @LKABudMan, appreciate it. Shoot for the stats and maybe you’ll get the moon, right? Lol!Glad you're OK Jon. I was down in S FL in '91 for Andrew, I know the kind of devastation you're describing. Your ladies look incredible. I love that you shot for 3lbs out of 3 plants. That's the only way you could possibly describe this grow as a failure
- Thread starter
- #1,028
Mid Flower Overall Observations
A few thoughts/observations on these plants, the growing styles, training, etc…
- Pyramid Pots (coco only, ie, Forbidden Runtz setup): Yes, I likely have a very long tap root and lots of feeder roots as was the point of trying this setup. The question is, has it translated into more/improved growth? I’m not so sure. I believe if I grew this exact seed the exact same way in a 10 or even a 7 like normal I’d have a very similar plant. The tap root likely grows the entire grow regardless - all the pyramid pot does is allow it to be straight for a longer distance before curling around at the bottom of the pot. However, the set up does definitely provide more space overall for roots to form in. So I suppose the jury is still out, but I’m not sold on the pyramid pot concept based on just this one plant. Certainly hasn’t made it any worse, just not sure it has made it any better either. That said, after she’s harvested and I peel away the pots, we may get to see a layer/wedding cake shaped mass of roots, which will be pretty cool. That’s when we’ll know how well it worked.
Pyramid Pots with Water Res Underneath (Watermelon WeddingCake set up): This has been highly successful to this point. The plant is gargantuan. Super healthy, super productive. I’ll do this again for sure, with a few changes at least. First, the amount of coco pot up top could be lessened. The magic here appears to be the res - the coco is simply a vehicle to get the roots there. I think a smaller single pot of coco up top and no pot underneath (just all open space in the res) would work better and give more space to the roots. That would also allow water feeding to begin much sooner - she did not get the res filled this time until about the stretch because it took that long for roots to fill the upper pots. I wonder how much bigger this plant would be had she been water feeding through most of veg. I would also do a much better job of sealing the space between the pot and the res lid, as what I have going on is a very rudimentary, rookie job. That part is easy. I might go with the 30 gallon res and just use the one, 8”, holy grail of air stones, which I have already along with the appropriate pump. That would provide a much wider field of bubbles and in theory get even more air to the roots. I don’t see a need for any temperature control for the res, which I mention cuz I’ve seen people using chillers and such. The water temperature in the res has remained pretty constant, and feels cool to the hand - like a cold swimming pool feels. That seems to be working fine. Maintenance of PH and TDS seems pretty easy as well, although I definitely need to learn more about TDS level/feed level based on the plant needs through the various parts of the growth cycle. This time I have gotten away with simply maintaining the res feed level at the level I’d be feeding at were the plant just in coco, so on week 2 of flower the res was filled with week 2 of flower mix (for example). But the increase in growth is undeniable. In coco alone I highly doubt this plant is as big, and the experience of growing the first WWC in straight coco supports this. @Rexer was right - coco is awesome but can’t match water plant for plant. Or at least it appears so far.
Regular (non XXL) Autoflowers in Coco (White Widow, my first regular auto in coco): I pretty much knew this, but regular autos in coco dust regular autos in soil as well. The WW is huge. Far exceeding my expectations. Also realize where the name White Widow may come from - this plant is shiny, almost silvery/white, from the frost that seems to form on every leaf. I can’t wait to see her in another three or four weeks. I’m also wondering on this plant just how big a pot I can fill with auto roots in coco. I’ve filled everything up to 7s so far no problem. This one is almost filled now in the 7. I mean FILLED. So I wonder if a 10 is worth trying, or if I’d just be wasting coco. Have to try it once in a 10 to see where I can max out roots.
Training: I am totally sold on my “Sombrero Training.” It works very well with enough light. Seems to create a ton of yield and also allows for gigantic colas, which are always fun. I’m finding it works better when topped above the 5th node rather than the 4th. It allows for more flexibility regarding the lower nodes and your lower ring. I don’t think I invented anything here, but it’s a pretty effective style of training and relatively easy to do.
So that’s about it for now. Nothing earth shattering, just some observations to chew on. All of this is liquid - a work in progress, fluid.
Thanks for listening to me babble.
A few thoughts/observations on these plants, the growing styles, training, etc…
- Pyramid Pots (coco only, ie, Forbidden Runtz setup): Yes, I likely have a very long tap root and lots of feeder roots as was the point of trying this setup. The question is, has it translated into more/improved growth? I’m not so sure. I believe if I grew this exact seed the exact same way in a 10 or even a 7 like normal I’d have a very similar plant. The tap root likely grows the entire grow regardless - all the pyramid pot does is allow it to be straight for a longer distance before curling around at the bottom of the pot. However, the set up does definitely provide more space overall for roots to form in. So I suppose the jury is still out, but I’m not sold on the pyramid pot concept based on just this one plant. Certainly hasn’t made it any worse, just not sure it has made it any better either. That said, after she’s harvested and I peel away the pots, we may get to see a layer/wedding cake shaped mass of roots, which will be pretty cool. That’s when we’ll know how well it worked.
Pyramid Pots with Water Res Underneath (Watermelon WeddingCake set up): This has been highly successful to this point. The plant is gargantuan. Super healthy, super productive. I’ll do this again for sure, with a few changes at least. First, the amount of coco pot up top could be lessened. The magic here appears to be the res - the coco is simply a vehicle to get the roots there. I think a smaller single pot of coco up top and no pot underneath (just all open space in the res) would work better and give more space to the roots. That would also allow water feeding to begin much sooner - she did not get the res filled this time until about the stretch because it took that long for roots to fill the upper pots. I wonder how much bigger this plant would be had she been water feeding through most of veg. I would also do a much better job of sealing the space between the pot and the res lid, as what I have going on is a very rudimentary, rookie job. That part is easy. I might go with the 30 gallon res and just use the one, 8”, holy grail of air stones, which I have already along with the appropriate pump. That would provide a much wider field of bubbles and in theory get even more air to the roots. I don’t see a need for any temperature control for the res, which I mention cuz I’ve seen people using chillers and such. The water temperature in the res has remained pretty constant, and feels cool to the hand - like a cold swimming pool feels. That seems to be working fine. Maintenance of PH and TDS seems pretty easy as well, although I definitely need to learn more about TDS level/feed level based on the plant needs through the various parts of the growth cycle. This time I have gotten away with simply maintaining the res feed level at the level I’d be feeding at were the plant just in coco, so on week 2 of flower the res was filled with week 2 of flower mix (for example). But the increase in growth is undeniable. In coco alone I highly doubt this plant is as big, and the experience of growing the first WWC in straight coco supports this. @Rexer was right - coco is awesome but can’t match water plant for plant. Or at least it appears so far.
Regular (non XXL) Autoflowers in Coco (White Widow, my first regular auto in coco): I pretty much knew this, but regular autos in coco dust regular autos in soil as well. The WW is huge. Far exceeding my expectations. Also realize where the name White Widow may come from - this plant is shiny, almost silvery/white, from the frost that seems to form on every leaf. I can’t wait to see her in another three or four weeks. I’m also wondering on this plant just how big a pot I can fill with auto roots in coco. I’ve filled everything up to 7s so far no problem. This one is almost filled now in the 7. I mean FILLED. So I wonder if a 10 is worth trying, or if I’d just be wasting coco. Have to try it once in a 10 to see where I can max out roots.
Training: I am totally sold on my “Sombrero Training.” It works very well with enough light. Seems to create a ton of yield and also allows for gigantic colas, which are always fun. I’m finding it works better when topped above the 5th node rather than the 4th. It allows for more flexibility regarding the lower nodes and your lower ring. I don’t think I invented anything here, but it’s a pretty effective style of training and relatively easy to do.
So that’s about it for now. Nothing earth shattering, just some observations to chew on. All of this is liquid - a work in progress, fluid.
Thanks for listening to me babble.
DV8
Well-Known Member
I could listen to these things explained all day mate.
Heres why. Theres a thousand ways to skin a cat. But rarely does one person have a 1000 cats.
By growing, observing, innovating, experimenting, exploring, trialling brings more wheat, not chaff.
Love you take the time to get it down in print to digest, process. I dont think Im overstating the importance of you drawing in different ideas and applying them to find what works, what doesnt, whats good, and whats better.
Great mid-flower review! I'm curious how far that tap root actually grew in the pyramid pot because @flytier grew in homemade tall pots and his taps never touched the bottom (to disprove that whole autos flower when the tap hits the bottom myth).
I also recall a video of a professional outside grower who grew trees in pots that were like 10 feet across but 16" deep because that's the "optimal depth" for cannabis roots. If I can locate that video from years ago I'll post the link but don't hold your breath!
[Wait...found it (take out the spaces):
https:// www. youtube.com/watch?v=k7CEDxxQYZ8
and you can start at 4:00 for the pot discussion.]
I've never seen the tap root at the bottom of a 7 gallon pot, just the feeders.
I also recall a video of a professional outside grower who grew trees in pots that were like 10 feet across but 16" deep because that's the "optimal depth" for cannabis roots. If I can locate that video from years ago I'll post the link but don't hold your breath!
[Wait...found it (take out the spaces):
https:// www. youtube.com/watch?v=k7CEDxxQYZ8
and you can start at 4:00 for the pot discussion.]
I've never seen the tap root at the bottom of a 7 gallon pot, just the feeders.
- Thread starter
- #1,031
Very interesting @InTheShed. I honestly have no idea WHAT is happening in there, lol. After harvest I’ll do a dissection on the pot and coco/roots and we’ll take a close look at it. You and these guys may well be right, maybe there really is no long tap root that just keeps getting longer as I imagine. I’ve never broken down a pot and really checked it out post harvest. If the tap only gets so long and having more vertical space doesn’t really do much, that would support my “not so sure I wouldn’t have the same plant in a straight 7” statement. I will admit I expected something more out of this plant and set up, but even that hope/expectation was blind having never grown the strain. So I guess we can check it out at the end. I’ll prune the coco and whatever is there similarly to how I’ve seen you trim root balls before and whittle away til we see what the tap root has. Thanks!
- Thread starter
- #1,032
Oh - take out the spaces. Duh. Also, forgot to say - I had never heard the “autos start to flower when the tap root hits the bottom of the pot” myth. That one makes me laugh hard.
- Thread starter
- #1,033
White Widow
Day 61
Did not expect this girl to take over the 3x3. Very pleasantly surprised with this one. Great plant. Getting very shimmery and silvery.
Day 61
Did not expect this girl to take over the 3x3. Very pleasantly surprised with this one. Great plant. Getting very shimmery and silvery.
- Thread starter
- #1,034
Watermelon WeddingCake
Day 71
This plant is simply ridiculous. I don’t even know what to say. Yes I do! I have now grown this plant twice. Both times she turned into a beastly monster. As I’ve said, the first one was 12.75 ounces jarred and trimmed. This one pretty much dwarfs that first one. I can’t imagine what her yield will be. But out of every single plant and every single strain I have grown (ever!), there is no doubt that this Watermelon WeddingCake XXL auto is the most productive strain in my experience. Especially for an auto, although the first one and now this one also outyielded every photo plant I’ve grown as well. Every branch becomes an appreciable amount of bud on this plant. It’s astounding. And very little waste/flarf. Having been crowned the #1 best weed to play music on by me and four of my closest musicians/friends, edging out Jack Herer (preferably the 1994 genome), this strain is the first one I’ve ever identified as a long term keeper/yes keep growing this. I usually switch up to new strains with each grow, in the relentless pursuit of that handful of keepers and favorite strains to grow long term. The weed has to work well on pain, the plant has to be productive, and I have to actually like the taste of it. Also has to stink and have well pronounced and long lasting terpenes. Lots of frost is also preferable. Not much to ask, right? Well here you go. Watermelon WeddingCake is one. Heh.
Edit: note in the first picture how much light is getting to the lower ring. She’s all lit up!
Day 71
This plant is simply ridiculous. I don’t even know what to say. Yes I do! I have now grown this plant twice. Both times she turned into a beastly monster. As I’ve said, the first one was 12.75 ounces jarred and trimmed. This one pretty much dwarfs that first one. I can’t imagine what her yield will be. But out of every single plant and every single strain I have grown (ever!), there is no doubt that this Watermelon WeddingCake XXL auto is the most productive strain in my experience. Especially for an auto, although the first one and now this one also outyielded every photo plant I’ve grown as well. Every branch becomes an appreciable amount of bud on this plant. It’s astounding. And very little waste/flarf. Having been crowned the #1 best weed to play music on by me and four of my closest musicians/friends, edging out Jack Herer (preferably the 1994 genome), this strain is the first one I’ve ever identified as a long term keeper/yes keep growing this. I usually switch up to new strains with each grow, in the relentless pursuit of that handful of keepers and favorite strains to grow long term. The weed has to work well on pain, the plant has to be productive, and I have to actually like the taste of it. Also has to stink and have well pronounced and long lasting terpenes. Lots of frost is also preferable. Not much to ask, right? Well here you go. Watermelon WeddingCake is one. Heh.
Edit: note in the first picture how much light is getting to the lower ring. She’s all lit up!
That's an endorsement!
Girls look great this morning Jon.Watermelon WeddingCake
Day 71
This plant is simply ridiculous. I don’t even know what to say. Yes I do! I have now grown this plant twice. Both times she turned into a beastly monster. As I’ve said, the first one was 12.75 ounces jarred and trimmed. This one pretty much dwarfs that first one. I can’t imagine what her yield will be. But out of every single plant and every single strain I have grown (ever!), there is no doubt that this Watermelon WeddingCake XXL auto is the most productive strain in my experience. Especially for an auto, although the first one and now this one also outyielded every photo plant I’ve grown as well. Every branch becomes an appreciable amount of bud on this plant. It’s astounding. And very little waste/flarf. Having been crowned the #1 best weed to play music on by me and four of my closest musicians/friends, edging out Jack Herer (preferably the 1994 genome), this strain is the first one I’ve ever identified as a long term keeper/yes keep growing this. I usually switch up to new strains with each grow, in the relentless pursuit of that handful of keepers and favorite strains to grow long term. The weed has to work well on pain, the plant has to be productive, and I have to actually like the taste of it. Also has to stink and have well pronounced and long lasting terpenes. Lots of frost is also preferable. Not much to ask, right? Well here you go. Watermelon WeddingCake is one. Heh.
Edit: note in the first picture how much light is getting to the lower ring. She’s all lit up!
Just glad your safe and dry.
Take care.
Stay safe
Bill284
Your Sombrero training style won't work in my space but there seems to be something to it as a way to max out an indoor grow. 
- Thread starter
- #1,038
I’d love to get it in the hands of other musicians to get more feedback. I know a few other musician-growers, including my drummer, and we are all the same. Part of our ongoing quest is to find the best strains to serve both pain and creativity at the same time. Preferably with a significant up boost, ie, a sweet sativa buzz. Jack Herer has held the title for a long time. My Cinderella Jack was pretty up there too from several grows back - not surprisingly another Jack inspired plant. But when me and my boys smoked the WWC, we all had the same reaction - we immediately wanted to jam. Now this is across three cities and all experienced while the person was alone, which to me makes the impression have a bit more value. It wasn’t as if we were all together and psyched about it already, you know? Anyway, lots of strains make you feel that way - the actual test is when you sit down with your instrument. Again, the being alone part is significant. If I’m jamming with a band I’m listening to the other players and trying to be creative around the fabric of their tapestry. Versus practicing by myself…in which case I tend to work on scales and such, and creativity is not necessarily always the goal. If it happens it happens. Well, when it hit the bass after smoking the WWC, I couldn’t stick to scales and stuff. I just wanted to go off. I was trying things I never tried before out of nowhere. This is what I’m looking for - and what I believe it means from a musical point of view - when the strain is advertised as “enhances creativity,” or whatever. The WWC didn’t even bill itself as such from Growers Choice, so this was an extremely happy and surprising thing. But yeah, at the moment it’s king.
There’s more than you ever wanted to know.
Strawberry cough is provoking positive creativity like that for me.I’d love to get it in the hands of other musicians to get more feedback. I know a few other musician-growers, including my drummer, and we are all the same. Part of our ongoing quest is to find the best strains to serve both pain and creativity at the same time. Preferably with a significant up boost, ie, a sweet sativa buzz. Jack Herer has held the title for a long time. My Cinderella Jack was pretty up there too from several grows back - not surprisingly another Jack inspired plant. But when me and my boys smoked the WWC, we all had the same reaction - we immediately wanted to jam. Now this is across three cities and all experienced while the person was alone, which to me makes the impression have a bit more value. It wasn’t as if we were all together and psyched about it already, you know? Anyway, lots of strains make you feel that way - the actual test is when you sit down with your instrument. Again, the being alone part is significant. If I’m jamming with a band I’m listening to the other players and trying to be creative around the fabric of their tapestry. Versus practicing by myself…in which case I tend to work on scales and such, and creativity is not necessarily always the goal. If it happens it happens. Well, when it hit the bass after smoking the WWC, I couldn’t stick to scales and stuff. I just wanted to go off. I was trying things I never tried before out of nowhere. This is what I’m looking for - and what I believe it means from a musical point of view - when the strain is advertised as “enhances creativity,” or whatever. The WWC didn’t even bill itself as such from Growers Choice, so this was an extremely happy and surprising thing. But yeah, at the moment it’s king.
There’s more than you ever wanted to know.
- Thread starter
- #1,040
Maybe so @Azimuth - I think it works well with a lot of space and with a bar style light. With a center mounted single light the upper colas tend to absorb and detract from the light of the lower ring. But with a nice solid bar light, there’s more than enough to light everything up due to the horizontal spacing of the bars. Really this plant should be centered and have the tent to herself, (the WWC I mean). Anyway, I’m not ready to anoint it as anything special just yet. It could work better on tight indica bushes that don’t stretch too much - the stretch is sort of elemental to the success of the method. Witness the Forbidden Runtz for example. No stretch hardly. You can barely tell it’s trained identically to the WWC.Your Sombrero training style won't work in my space but there seems to be something to it as a way to max out an indoor grow.