How to get started growing indoors organically - No bottles

[PlanetJ]

Roger that .. I thought they where the same .. just looked that up .. I'm afraid I'll have to buy big bags after all .. and create a lot of LOS

 

[SweetSue]

Sunny,

Sue is referring to this product. I'm growing in two 3 gallon containers and it is more than enough for my needs 3 times over. It'll take alot of the guess work out of soil amendments and allow you to focus more of your time on brewing compost teas/biota. Once you get the hang of maintaining a vibrant microbe community you can add all the other steps. There's so much more we could all be doing with our grows. None of us have it down perfectly. We are all experimenting in our own ways - probing certain curiosities with questions and tasks. You'll be learning with us is all I'm saying.

Feel free to ask specific questions. I just like to give that primer to knew Living Soil folks...its not as scary at it looks. I didn't even know there was a "Living Soil community" when I got into this. I was just bouncing around sites researching teas and soils and training techniques...I didn't even start out on this site really. Me and one other guy on a Reddit board were the sole two people talking about Living Soil. I had an "ah ha" moment when I started mentioning living soil in my journal here and people started coming by to say hi. For all the research I did somehow I missed the community part of it lol....and I still messed up my first (current) grow a little. At least Sue had as she likes to call them a couple "adopted" grows under her belt lol. But she definitely set the bar high with her first ever grow from seed to harvest. I just sort of hit the ground running, but I'll be fighting her for the title next time!!

Ok I'm rambling... but this is pretty relaxed place so feel free to make mistakes. We want to see you do well. This is an endeavor (cannabis and natural organic farming) that only succeeds if the information gets out to as many people as possible.

Actually Sunny, I was talking about the Clackamas Coots style nutrient kit from the same company. The regular nutrient kit they sell is quite good too, but the CC-style one is what's rocking my grow.

Guys, you make my heart swell.

 

[SweetSue]

I was planning on using the manure to feed the compost bin, and the compost bin will eventually feed the worm bin. These horses are riding horses, I know the owner, there is no cheap crap through their food. It would be flax and manure

I even have the option to use already decomposed flax/manure .. so it has been sitting for a while

If I have a lot of sand local, would that sub a part of the rockdust or is that not the way it works ?

The rock dust is a different component than sand. I used some exotic sands in my own mix, but it was because we had it laying around and I decided the diversity of available surfaces would benefit the micro herd, giving them a wide variety of places to set up shop. The rock dust is what gives your soil the mineralization that makes it perform the way mine has. Feel free to add some sand, but in small quantities and stick to the ratios called for in rock dust.

You've proven your ability to reason out these components and source it locally. I'm sure you'll stumble on an inexpensive or free source for the rock dust as well. See? It's only intimidating until you've researched it enough that it begins to make sense. I can still recall that moment in my own pursuit of LOS. You should see my soil folder with its pages of notes and diagrams! You're on a firm path PlanetJ.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Actually Sunny, I was talking about the Clackamas Coots style nutrient kit from the same company. The regular nutrient kit they sell is quite good too, but the CC-style one is what's rocking my grow.

Guys, you make my heart swell.

Ya I realized that mistake earlier too...linked the wrong one...I've been on a roll lately Sorry about that.

edit: heres the correct mix BuildASoil Complete Soil Building Kit - Coot Approved

 

[PlanetJ]

Clackamas Coot soil mix:

"Equal parts of Sphagnum peat moss, some aeration deal (pumice, rice hulls, lava rock - whatever is sitting in the garage) and finally some mix of humus - my compost, worm castings some black leaf mold I bought from the local 'worm guy'
To each 1 c.f. of this mix I add the following:
1/2 cup organic Neem meal
1/2 cup organic Kelp meal
1/2 cup Crab meal (or Crustacean meal when available - it has Shrimp meal with the Crab meal. It's a local product from the fisheries on the Oregon & Washington Coasts)
4 cups of some minerals - rock dust

After the plant is in the final container I top-dress with my worm castings at 2" or so and then I hit it with Aloe vera juice and Comfrey extract. Or Borage. Or Stinging Nettle. Or Horsetail ferns. Whatever is ready.


The Rock Dust Recipe
4x - Glacial Rock Dust - Canadian Glacial (Gaia Green label)
1x - Bentonite - from the pottery supply store
1x - Oyster Shell Powder - the standard product from San Francisco Bay
1x - Basalt - from Redmond, Oregon (new product at Concentrates - about $18.00) ."

"Equal parts of Sphagnum peat moss, some aeration deal (pumice, rice hulls, lava rock - whatever is sitting in the garage) and finally some mix of humus - my compost, worm castings some black leaf mold I bought from the local 'worm guy'".

Is that equal parts by volume or by weight ? I just realised there is kind of a big difference

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Equal parts by volume

 

[Radogast]

I've mixed my rock dust, nutrients and some worm castings in fabric pots.
I'm going to have to wait a few weeks to add sphagnum, aeration, neem cake, and a bit more compost.
(Snow everywhere. No winter stock in the nurseries and big box stores. Gravel yards are probably grumpy.)

Should I be watering the incomplete mix to start the blending/cooking process while I wait?

 

[ClosedCircuit]

How damp were the worm castings when you mixed them? I'd just leave it covered but able to breath. I've found that vermicompost is pretty good at staying moist on its own if covered and kept in a room temperature to slightly cool environment. But adding a little water wont hurt if you feel its too dry.

 

[36Gr0w]

I'd add a enzyme tea and throw the scraps in as well.

 

[PlanetJ]

I would not water it .. else you will end up having to break it up once you get the rest of the ingredients.
You jumpstart it with compost tea once it's ready afaik .. no real need to start cooking up front ..

This is based on your descriptive words .. 'some worm castings'

 

[Klovneposen]

Always interesting reading up on a organic growers knowledge. very nice thread i will study your writings further that is for sure.

I must admit im a on the bottle. biobizz bottle that is. but the dream is to learn growing with my own teas and composts. im starting my veggie garden this summer. first year i think i will find my comfort on the bottom om the bottles tho. but with my knowledge i will accumulate in gardering, growing this upcoming summer, in the way on how i tend to the various plants. i think i will be ready to try some homebrews for my garden the following years. i just like the idea of, if the world were to "fall" somehow tomorrow i will not be in trouble, i can just make my own compost and teas Im just not the big physics scientist, so the learning curb of you way of growing is kindda steep to me, the comfort of an easy to go at schedule and nute line, just makes me focus on developing my techniques on other areas. i have been growing for some years but did'nt pay to much attention to techniques such as scrog and such. just grow top/fim harvest but this last year after going LED i have focused on different techniques. and now i got that worked into my hands i can start the to me hardest part. making my own supplements

I hope its okay i put up these charts i found way back. I think they could be of use to someone who want to follow your path. if its not acceptable that i have uploaded these charts to your thread. just say so, and i will remove them ASAP for sure.

Thanks for the knowledge you have given my in this thread.



i hope this is of use to you guys looking into organics. it took me hours to find this. and have not used it even once *LOL* typical me.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I'd add a enzyme tea and throw the scraps in as well.

Its probably a bit of a waste of enzyme tea. It doesn't stay in the soil very long. It would be better to due a simple ACT and moisten the mix with it once it has all the final ingredients and let it sit for a couple more weeks. Wait to use the enzyme tea until the seed sprouts since the point of an SST is that of a mother's milk...it supplements additional nutrients and is as close to an immediately available food source you can get with LOS before you start to cross into Hi Brix. If you aren't feeding a plant I'd hold out on the enzyme tea.

 

[Radogast]

I would not water it .. else you will end up having to break it up once you get the rest of the ingredients.
You jumpstart it with compost tea once it's ready afaik .. no real need to start cooking up front ..

This is based on your descriptive words .. 'some worm castings'

Each pot has about 32 oz of DRY worm castings, 20 oz of rock dust, 8 oz of Clackamas Coot nutrient mix (from Build A Soil.) The nutrients have a sharp 'chemical' smell that is masking the green and earthl smells of my garden room.

If I extrapolate, I believe you are saying that water would begin feeding the soil food web which will then be torn into pieces when I mix the remaining ingredients.

I'm not really clear what the point of "cooking" the soil is supposed to accomplish.

 

[MaxYields]

Hey SweetSue and Coorganics and everyone else!!

I have a question for you pioneers of the 420magazine Organic Community... And it has to do with outdoor LOS!

Now, as much as it would make me so happy to ammend the soil already in my yard, I will be moving within the year and as I recall from some conversations I had with Doc Bud that it takes a good two to three seasons to fully ammend soil. So I will be forced to grow in 30 gallon GeoPots this summer.. But with the LOS blend from this thread, I think I will do just fine!

What would you guys think of this soil mix outdoors in pots? Good or bad idea? I would ideally want to ammend and move the soil indoors once the outdoor season was over, andbased on your most recent Journal SweetSue, that I could get some beautiful outdoor plants with this method... Although you might have to hold my hand a little bit... As long as Dale doesn't mind!

I would love to do this on an outdoor scale this summer. Already have the ingredient list ready! Gonna visit the grow store nearby and see how much of this stuff they have available, if I don't make my own LOS soil I will be buying Docs Kit, just figured this might be a better Intro to true organics!

Thanks in advance

 

[36Gr0w]

Oops, didn't realize you were going to wait a few weeks, and your ewc is dry. a compost tea to add some micro life would be good.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Hey SweetSue and Coorganics and everyone else!!

I have a question for you pioneers of the 420magazine Organic Community... And it has to do with outdoor LOS!

Now, as much as it would make me so happy to ammend the soil already in my yard, I will be moving within the year and as I recall from some conversations I had with Doc Bud that it takes a good two to three seasons to fully ammend soil. So I will be forced to grow in 30 gallon GeoPots this summer.. But with the LOS blend from this thread, I think I will do just fine!

What would you guys think of this soil mix outdoors in pots? Good or bad idea? I would ideally want to ammend and move the soil indoors once the outdoor season was over, andbased on your most recent Journal SweetSue, that I could get some beautiful outdoor plants with this method... Although you might have to hold my hand a little bit... As long as Dale doesn't mind!

I would love to do this on an outdoor scale this summer. Already have the ingredient list ready! Gonna visit the grow store nearby and see how much of this stuff they have available, if I don't make my own LOS soil I will be buying Docs Kit, just figured this might be a better Intro to true organics!

Thanks in advance

The soil should be fine. One grower Sue references is PeeJay who used a variation of this soil outside. If lack of rain is a problem where you live, then the only real obstacle is making sure the soil stays moist so the microbe community doesn't die off.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Each pot has about 32 oz of DRY worm castings, 20 oz of rock dust, 8 oz of Clackamas Coot nutrient mix (from Build A Soil.) The nutrients have a sharp 'chemical' smell that is masking the green and earthl smells of my garden room.

If I extrapolate, I believe you are saying that water would begin feeding the soil food web which will then be torn into pieces when I mix the remaining ingredients.

I'm not really clear what the point of "cooking" the soil is supposed to accomplish.

I would add a couple cups of compost tea to it...or whatever amount you need to make it moist without it turning into mud

"Cooking" is a vague term. Some people literally cook their soil at a max of 250F to eliminate soil pathogens and seeds. People who do this seem to think that only beneficial microbes are left...I don't really understand how that would work unless we are getting into a Passover scenario and somehow we've started messing around with sacrificial lambs to ward off the heat of an oven. This practice pretty much sterilizes the soil. There are studies out that observe heat stress on microbial colonies, which all suffer significant population loss after "cooking" or baking.

Most people who know anything about LSO mean just letting their soil sit for at least a few weeks. This is to let microbes establish themselves in the soil. Even better, throw a cover crop in there once you have all your amendments mixed with some mycho powder and let the hephae establish itself as well.

 

[PlanetJ]

Each pot has about 32 oz of DRY worm castings, 20 oz of rock dust, 8 oz of Clackamas Coot nutrient mix (from Build A Soil.) The nutrients have a sharp 'chemical' smell that is masking the green and earthl smells of my garden room.

If I extrapolate, I believe you are saying that water would begin feeding the soil food web which will then be torn into pieces when I mix the remaining ingredients.

I'm not really clear what the point of "cooking" the soil is supposed to accomplish.

No .. I'm just worried about the stuff clumping together, making it a nightmare to mix later on. Combined with the cooking (letting it sit and letting the microbes to their job), it seems useless to wet it now. It will still have to cook once assembled.

Cooking allows the beneficial microbes to take over, and do their thing, enhancing your soil

 

[PlanetJ]

...ugh .. thats what you get when you reply first ...what CC said Tho I would still be worried about the ingredients clumping together

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Its probably a bit of a waste of enzyme tea. It doesn't stay in the soil very long. It would be better to due a simple ACT and moisten the mix with it once it has all the final ingredients and let it sit for a couple more weeks. Wait to use the enzyme tea until the seed sprouts since the point of an SST is that of a mother's milk...it supplements additional nutrients and is as close to an immediately available food source you can get with LOS before you start to cross into Hi Brix. If you aren't feeding a plant I'd hold out on the enzyme tea.

Wasn't clear here...wait until your PLANTS sprout before using an enzyme tea.