SST provide enzymes. They are used to aid in breaking down organic matter. They can be added to your soil before you plant. Sst can also contain growth hormones to aid in growth and girth. They are not "nutes"!
How to get started growing indoors organically - No bottles
- Thread starter COorganics
- Start date
SST provide enzymes. They are used to aid in breaking down organic matter. They can be added to your soil before you plant. Sst can also contain growth hormones to aid in growth and girth. They are not "nutes"!
- Thread starter
- #242
@ rado,
I'm having a hard time keeping up with all this. I do feel obligated to help you out though my friend. I have some thoughts. I wish you were simply putting your soil mix together all at once, that would be easier for you.
1) why are your EWC dry? They came like that? The worm power BAS brand?
2) if you were going to partially put together soil, it would be better if you mixed the aeration, rock dusts, meals, and SPM, and later added the living humic components when you were ready to use the soil.
Don't worry though, when you are able to get all components of your soil together apply an ACT, or 2, right outta the gate. And I mean just a simple vermicompost tea using water VC and molasses, nothing else. When your worm shit, compost, or soil, whatever, dries out... In a big way your population of soil microorganisms goes dormant and becomes inactive. ACT is your friend in this spot and will serve your soil well. A microbial boost for the soil, they are. In mean time keep mix at least slightly moist and not cold.
3) don't over think it! Follow the recipe to help you learn and understand and succeed!
4)Dial in proper watering habits/practices
5)oh yeah cooking is just letting the newly mixed soil sit for a bit (2+ weeks is just fine) before planting into it. It's not really all that necessary with this soil mix... As in it won't burn your plants up on day 2 after mixing, then magically on day 16 it's ready to go. It isn't about that... Rather mix your soil, water (ACT would be good here I think) then the soil microorganisms get started cycling nutrients in your soil and making them more available. This is my understanding today of "cooking" soil.
@ everyone else
Eggshells rock as a source of calcium! IF you can get the nutrients they contain to become available in your soil. Beware of crushing them up and mixing in your soil, you really need to get them to a powdered state before using.
I still like oyster shell flour, but I'm sure egg shells ground to fine dust are all good.
Here's another interesting way to use egg shells ( I have NOT tried it personally)
Where did I put my coffee?
I'm having a hard time keeping up with all this. I do feel obligated to help you out though my friend. I have some thoughts. I wish you were simply putting your soil mix together all at once, that would be easier for you.
1) why are your EWC dry? They came like that? The worm power BAS brand?
2) if you were going to partially put together soil, it would be better if you mixed the aeration, rock dusts, meals, and SPM, and later added the living humic components when you were ready to use the soil.
Don't worry though, when you are able to get all components of your soil together apply an ACT, or 2, right outta the gate. And I mean just a simple vermicompost tea using water VC and molasses, nothing else. When your worm shit, compost, or soil, whatever, dries out... In a big way your population of soil microorganisms goes dormant and becomes inactive. ACT is your friend in this spot and will serve your soil well. A microbial boost for the soil, they are. In mean time keep mix at least slightly moist and not cold.
3) don't over think it! Follow the recipe to help you learn and understand and succeed!
4)Dial in proper watering habits/practices
5)oh yeah cooking is just letting the newly mixed soil sit for a bit (2+ weeks is just fine) before planting into it. It's not really all that necessary with this soil mix... As in it won't burn your plants up on day 2 after mixing, then magically on day 16 it's ready to go. It isn't about that... Rather mix your soil, water (ACT would be good here I think) then the soil microorganisms get started cycling nutrients in your soil and making them more available. This is my understanding today of "cooking" soil.
@ everyone else
Eggshells rock as a source of calcium! IF you can get the nutrients they contain to become available in your soil. Beware of crushing them up and mixing in your soil, you really need to get them to a powdered state before using.
I still like oyster shell flour, but I'm sure egg shells ground to fine dust are all good.
Here's another interesting way to use egg shells ( I have NOT tried it personally)
Where did I put my coffee?
- Thread starter
- #243
This thread is getting popular and Hydrofarm is losing market share to red wiggler worms. Good shit. Fuck 'em.
ClosedCircuit
New Member
I'm just using "nutes" as a general term. There are hormones, ezymes, acids, and proteins some of which yes do work to break down carbohydrates into glucose to provide food for plants. There is no reason why you can't add it to the soil before, but I don't know how long plant hormones last in the soil. I suspect the enzymes you add to remain for a while since soil viability is in part measured by enzyme levels which are the result of long-term microbial work. But, you can create an enzyme rich environment with just composted material. Personally, I see enzyme tea as a boost for the plants and the soil...but more so the plants. That's just my thinking. Barley, corn, etc, are all very cheap resources so going crazy with it wont hurt your wallet and it wont hurt the soil.
- Thread starter
- #245
Here is a c&p of a post I made on sweetleafs thread. I figured it was good here, too.
"Nice score on the worms dude. Red wigglers may be a better fit in a shallow bin, but heck see what happens. I bet there are a shit ton of red wigglers for you to grab if you dig down to the bottom of your leaf pile, assuming it's sitting on the ground still in the same place it was. Nitecrawlers like to burrow deep, where as wigglers are happy living and working near the surface. That's why we like dee red wigglers.
Also don't be afraid to throw some minerals into your worm bin, and a little sand. If you have some dry amendments laying around sprinkle some in there. Oystershell flour, azomite, glacial rock dust, kelp meal, whatever, sprinkle a little on the top.
I like to keep my worm bin on the dry side of moist and feed it already composted materials, the better quality compost, the better the final VC product will be. And including minerals and dynamic accumulators is all the better, these things are broken down and provide a FULL range of nutrients. These composting processes allow for much nutrient cycling to occur before the vermicompost (VC) ever comes in contact with your soil. That's the power of high quality worm shit in conjunction with the soil food web, everything the plant need is there, and readily available. And mellow enough to sow seeds directly into, and powerful enough to carry a plant through flower."
I did just that, too. I put a thick layer of worm shit on top of my containers and sowed a few seeds directly into it. They did just fine and are getting to grow up without ever getting transplanted. Kinda cool.
Good ?'s:
1): How does it work then if all the nutrients are in your soil all the time? Does it make the buds harsh if the soil doesn't run out of nutrients before harvest?
2): How do you know if the nutrients in your soil are in the proper ratios?
These are some great questions I think. What do you think the answers are? Should make a good discussion.
"Nice score on the worms dude. Red wigglers may be a better fit in a shallow bin, but heck see what happens. I bet there are a shit ton of red wigglers for you to grab if you dig down to the bottom of your leaf pile, assuming it's sitting on the ground still in the same place it was. Nitecrawlers like to burrow deep, where as wigglers are happy living and working near the surface. That's why we like dee red wigglers.
Also don't be afraid to throw some minerals into your worm bin, and a little sand. If you have some dry amendments laying around sprinkle some in there. Oystershell flour, azomite, glacial rock dust, kelp meal, whatever, sprinkle a little on the top.
I like to keep my worm bin on the dry side of moist and feed it already composted materials, the better quality compost, the better the final VC product will be. And including minerals and dynamic accumulators is all the better, these things are broken down and provide a FULL range of nutrients. These composting processes allow for much nutrient cycling to occur before the vermicompost (VC) ever comes in contact with your soil. That's the power of high quality worm shit in conjunction with the soil food web, everything the plant need is there, and readily available. And mellow enough to sow seeds directly into, and powerful enough to carry a plant through flower."
I did just that, too. I put a thick layer of worm shit on top of my containers and sowed a few seeds directly into it. They did just fine and are getting to grow up without ever getting transplanted. Kinda cool.
Good ?'s:
1): How does it work then if all the nutrients are in your soil all the time? Does it make the buds harsh if the soil doesn't run out of nutrients before harvest?
2): How do you know if the nutrients in your soil are in the proper ratios?
These are some great questions I think. What do you think the answers are? Should make a good discussion.
CC, thank you for expanding on that. It's hard for me to explain or go in depth on my cell phone at work.
ClosedCircuit
New Member
No problem
ClosedCircuit
New Member
I suppose we don't know if our soil are properly proportioned unless we get them tested.
On what I assume was a question about flushing with Living Soil I have dug up this thread. Flushing is probably another bud-myth. If your plants haven't been burned with fertilizers and they do not contain any toxic substances then washing may not do anything but potentially starve your plants (assuming you don't have living soil). I have heard at least a couple different reasons why people flush plants...some people claim they do it because the stress brings out some last minute THC production...who knows. But if your plants are at proper nutrient levels then I don't see why they would necessarily need to be flushed.
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
Yeah flushing in organics is bullshit cause minerals after absorbtion by root dystem stay in the plant. You cannot magically put them back 
Cannabis is a hyperaccumulator basically, so the plant absorbs absolutely everything from the soil including sodium, boron, arsenic etc. This stays in plant's tissue, and that's why I was never convinced by chemical feeding, which by the way is purer in chemical sense as the plant only gets what you think she needs, downside is mineral downhill especially in soil which is too light to hold anything. Anyway organics provides richer feeding in terms of micronutrients and that's we get around green sand, azomite, volcanic rock, pumice etc. And then you're not even supppsed to flush that kind of soil as balance brings flavors, terpenes production and smooth smoke in the end
Cannabis is a hyperaccumulator basically, so the plant absorbs absolutely everything from the soil including sodium, boron, arsenic etc. This stays in plant's tissue, and that's why I was never convinced by chemical feeding, which by the way is purer in chemical sense as the plant only gets what you think she needs, downside is mineral downhill especially in soil which is too light to hold anything. Anyway organics provides richer feeding in terms of micronutrients and that's we get around green sand, azomite, volcanic rock, pumice etc. And then you're not even supppsed to flush that kind of soil as balance brings flavors, terpenes production and smooth smoke in the end 
MaxYields
New Member
Quick question.... I'm getting confused when ordering my amendments like Crab Meal and Neem Seed meal... Do you guys think a 5lb box of each will have enough product in it to make 60gallons of the soil recipe in this thread?
The cooking allows the microbes busily beginning to establish in you lovely soil mix to break down the hot items you added so they don't burn the seedlings and plants. Think of it as giving the microbes time to get the soil connections started.
ClosedCircuit
New Member
It could be enough...depends on the product. Some you will need more of than others. Some of the mineral amendments especially may require over 5lb. You aren't measuring by weight, but by volume and some products are much denser then others. If you go to the first page of this thread there are proportions laid out. Just multiply those proportions until you get the necessary amount for 60gallons.
MaxYields
New Member
I have done all of that math to down to the cups of each amendment and everything... But most companies label how much product you'll receive in lbs instead of gallons or quarts or whatever.... So I was just curious what peoples experiences were with how fast the amendments are used.... Guess I'll just be guessing haha.
MaxYields, I went to Build A Soil to check it out and 5# of neem is 10 cups while 6# of kelp was also 10 cups. The CC recipe calls for 1/2 cup per cubic foot, so you'd be fine with them. Even if you don't order from them BAS is a great resource for this type of information. I personally find their prices fair and their customer service always brings me back.
ClosedCircuit
New Member
Alot of products will tell you how many cubic feet they are good for. 70gal is just short of 9.5 cubic feet so keep that in mind.
- Thread starter
- #256
[/QUOTE]
Good ?'s:
1): How does it work then if all the nutrients are in your soil all the time? Does it make the buds harsh if the soil doesn't run out of nutrients before harvest?
2): How do you know if the nutrients in your soil are in the proper ratios?
These are some great questions I think. What do you think the answers are? Should make a good discussion.[/QUOTE]
Don't be shy, come on folks, what do you think?
Good ?'s:
1): How does it work then if all the nutrients are in your soil all the time? Does it make the buds harsh if the soil doesn't run out of nutrients before harvest?
2): How do you know if the nutrients in your soil are in the proper ratios?
These are some great questions I think. What do you think the answers are? Should make a good discussion.[/QUOTE]
Don't be shy, come on folks, what do you think?
ClosedCircuit
New Member
Good ?'s:
1): How does it work then if all the nutrients are in your soil all the time? Does it make the buds harsh if the soil doesn't run out of nutrients before harvest?
2): How do you know if the nutrients in your soil are in the proper ratios?
These are some great questions I think. What do you think the answers are? Should make a good discussion.[/QUOTE]
Don't be shy, come on folks, what do you think?[/QUOTE]
Hey I responded a few posts earlier!
1): How does it work then if all the nutrients are in your soil all the time? Does it make the buds harsh if the soil doesn't run out of nutrients before harvest?
2): How do you know if the nutrients in your soil are in the proper ratios?
These are some great questions I think. What do you think the answers are? Should make a good discussion.[/QUOTE]
Don't be shy, come on folks, what do you think?[/QUOTE]
Hey I responded a few posts earlier!
- Thread starter
- #258
To both ?'s
Thanks for any and all responses organic fam.
Thanks for any and all responses organic fam.
ClosedCircuit
New Member
I answered both. There isn't much to say about mineral ratios. If you get it tested then you will know. But I guess I don't believe in "perfect" proportions. In the great outdoors every soil has its properties and variances. I would like to know if people like high-brixers or even Coots know whether or not their soil is actually geared towards cannabis or is it just a "generally ideal" soil for a variety of plants. With that in mind, I'll go back to what I already said...is there a really a "perfect ratio?" Yes there are ideal proportions that inhibit or allow certain chemical reactions in the soil but I like to think the unique make up of certain soils allow for equally unique fruit to grow.
OK CO, Here's my thoughts.
1) How does it work then if all the nutrients are in your soil all the time? Does it make the buds harsh if the soil doesn't run out of nutrients before harvest?
Using chemicals is force-feeding the plants what you have decided the plants need. One of the results of that erroneous process is a build up in the tissues of those chemicals. When you understand how the soil food web operates - even if that's on the most fundamental level - you realize that the plant and the soil live in synergy. The plant offers what the soil needs along with a request for something the plant needs and the soil community answers the call and fills the request. The plant knows what it needs and how much of it to accept. The soil doesn't force it to take more in the way that chemicals do, so there's no excess to be stored away.
Makes you wish societies could learn from the microbes, doesn't it?
2) 2): How do you know if the nutrients in your soil are in the proper ratios?
In a healthy soil for controlled growing, as in containers or controlled beds, there are components in general ratios, determined by the intended crop. If you keep in mind that you're actually raising the soil so that the soil can raise the plant it becomes easier. Regularly scheduled teas or drenches continually add necessary nutrients. Top dressings, particularly using homemade or top-quality vermicompost, replenish from a different angle, so to speak. When you make your own compost and vermicompost or make your own plant-based teas you can add an element of control to customize the soil makeup. If you know your crop will have particular nutritional needs you can feed the worm bin or the compost bin appropriately.
The plant tells the soil what it needs. The soil provides the answer to the request. Gifts are exchanged and everyone benefits. Our job is to provide the building blocks. It's our responsibility to study the intended crop to determine those needs in advance and prepare before we grow. Worms make that so easy. They're little soil alchemists.
1) How does it work then if all the nutrients are in your soil all the time? Does it make the buds harsh if the soil doesn't run out of nutrients before harvest?
Using chemicals is force-feeding the plants what you have decided the plants need. One of the results of that erroneous process is a build up in the tissues of those chemicals. When you understand how the soil food web operates - even if that's on the most fundamental level - you realize that the plant and the soil live in synergy. The plant offers what the soil needs along with a request for something the plant needs and the soil community answers the call and fills the request. The plant knows what it needs and how much of it to accept. The soil doesn't force it to take more in the way that chemicals do, so there's no excess to be stored away.
Makes you wish societies could learn from the microbes, doesn't it?
2) 2): How do you know if the nutrients in your soil are in the proper ratios?
In a healthy soil for controlled growing, as in containers or controlled beds, there are components in general ratios, determined by the intended crop. If you keep in mind that you're actually raising the soil so that the soil can raise the plant it becomes easier. Regularly scheduled teas or drenches continually add necessary nutrients. Top dressings, particularly using homemade or top-quality vermicompost, replenish from a different angle, so to speak. When you make your own compost and vermicompost or make your own plant-based teas you can add an element of control to customize the soil makeup. If you know your crop will have particular nutritional needs you can feed the worm bin or the compost bin appropriately.
The plant tells the soil what it needs. The soil provides the answer to the request. Gifts are exchanged and everyone benefits. Our job is to provide the building blocks. It's our responsibility to study the intended crop to determine those needs in advance and prepare before we grow. Worms make that so easy. They're little soil alchemists.