Holy Tincture!

Kbomb said:
Hey Onkruid long time no chat - just a little update here for you and for all others looking to gather more information.

Recently made another couple of tincs. Still used bacardi 151, and your method of freezer for 2wks, shaking around once a day.

I had 2 strains recently harvested - Critical auto and Bubba Kush auto. Wasn't brave enough to decarb for longer than 30min at 120deg C.

14g of each, separately in different jars, into 100mls bacardi 151 in each jar. 2 weeks in freezer. Strained ~94mls through cheesecloth.

1dropper = 0.75mls. Placed in mouth it's not pleasant - stings and i'm not much of a rum fan. Preferred administration is in mug with lemon juice freshly squeezed, and boiled water added. Some honey to sweeten. Both actually pretty quick onset on empty stomach - feeling it in ~20mins. 3 droppers' worth and that's a good few hrs of a pleasant and intermittently waxing/waning buzz.

Next plan: decarb for longer - probably an hour minimum at 120deg C. And a higher concentration weed:alcohol. Tempted to use a drink I prefer - scotch. Have some 48.5% so might give that a go too. Might be just the trick, on the rocks :-)
Click to expand...

Have you considered getting the Ardent Nova decarb machine? I got one in November and decarbed my tincture bud with it. Smelled fantastic, and the tincture is awesome.
 
Hi all. posted the text below on my current grow journal but though may be of interest to some in this forum. :)

Over the last few days i had my first attempt at making a tincture. Had a look at quite a few recipies.

Some leaf (kept in the freezer) from this grows defoliation rounds ( about 50g wet) to which i added 13g of bud from the last grow(dry).

Cooked that @ 120 degrees C for an hour for decarboxylation, finely chopped it. Split between 2 small jars and added 150ml of ethanol to each jar.

Ethanol high purity, AR grade stuff. No significant benzene, methanol or other crap as found in the technical grade.

Shake shake shake and into the freezer. Jars wrapped in alfoil to exclude light.

Shake hard 2-3 times per day. 3 days in the freezer.

Poured through cheesecloth then a coffee filter. Took the extracted plant material and did a second run only leaving in the ethanol for 4 hours.

Filtered, very green ethanol at the end of this about 420ml volume.

??Just realized that's a weird coincidencle wot?? A good omen from the doGs above??

In a fume hood, (not wanting to blow myself up) had this in a double beaker setup (inner ethanol, outer water) on a lab electric hotplate, with a temp probe in it for about 3-4 hours. Got it up to 85 degrees C max, evaporating the ethanol nicely down to just under 100ml. Poured roughly equally into 6, brand new and clean, 25 ml brown dropper bottles, then used 50ml of clean ethanol to wash out the beaker used for evaporation and divvied that up over the 6 bottles.

Hmm.......no idea of this will work but fun to try.

Anyhow, now home, settled in with a coffee, and will NOT be driving anywhere tonight.

Put 3 drops under the tongue 30 minutes ago.

Definite effect. No probs with taste, not unpleasant or too bitey. Would not swig it out of the bottle though.

Feels a bit like the brownies i made at the moment but has come on faster and a bit more intense.

Not the fast rush you get from smoking which is good. Interesting.

If it turns out to not be strong enough i will recombine whats in the bottles and reduce further.....but think i may have done ok.

(slightly later :) )

Interesting. Nice buzz from tincture, and 1.5hrs later, there, but wearing off. Useful timescale i think, that does not leave me blitzed on the couch all night or totally gaga incomprehensibly shitfaced..

My conclusion...tinctures are great for all the reasons in the opening posts of this thread. I like the sociability of the odd joint to share among friends but for day to day use i think i would rate tinctures before edibles.

Definitely pleased with this result. May not suit everybody, but does me nicely. :) Have enough in storage now ( 5x 25ml lots) that i can go back, combine two of those to 50ml, and then evaporate back to 25ml to double the concentration. May try if i get the urge to be evil. :)

Editing:

Now over 3 hrs since 3 drops. Actually, still feeling a nice effect. Have survived munchies and eaten well without xs.

I will definitely use the method above again, but, would probably let it stew and shake for 2 weeks instead of 3 days. First try at this kind of thing there is always the temptation to get it done quickly to try out. no urgency for next time as now have plenty in the fridge.

Query for people more familiar with this. Have read that an alcohol extract tincture like this can last a long time in the fridge if you exclude light. Any opinions or experience on this people can share??

Thanks!
 
Glad to have found this as we have been making and using tincture for about 4 years . After a few trial and errors this is what we do . We decarb 50 grams of bud in a Ardent Nova decarb machine,all automatic just push the button. Once the bud is decarbed add 50 grams with 2 1/2 cups of Everclear and 2 tablespoons of Lecithin to the magic butter machine. Let the machine run 8 hours strain and you are finished .. This method works very well . Also have a jar sitting in the cabinet with 50 grams of decarbed bud covered with Everclear,has been setting April 1st will have been a year ..
 
philthegeek said:
ok, on tinctures. What is the advantage of adding lecithin??
Click to expand...

Lecithin is a handy additive that helps things stick together. Lecithin is a phospholipid. Phospholipids are similar to fat molecules (lipids) with an extra phosphate attached. These types of fats are essential components of cell membranes, creating a type of barrier that helps keep things locked in tight.

Phospholipids have a negative charge. Other fats and oils are nonpolar, meaning that they tend not to stick to other compounds, like water. Nutrients that are bound up with phospholipids are more bioavailable to the body. This means they are easier for the body to use and metabolize.

Adding a small amount of lecithin to your edibles (one teaspoon per cup) may help adhere ingredients like THC-infused coconut oil to other, water-based foods, like a brownie batter.

Typically, water and fats pull away from each other. Adding an emulsifier like lecithin helps these things stay consistently dispersed and bound up. To really get things connected, placing batter in a high-speed blender is recommended.

Why you should be adding lecithin to your edibles
 
ok, having another go at tincture / extraction. The stuff i made with ethanol is ok. 4 drops and nice buzz. :)

Did a bit more reading though and came across this old paper. Probably info overtaken by experimentation but something to be going on with.

Anyway, from this and other info am trying:

10g cannabis buds
120ml Olive Oil
2g lecithin …..ground up in olive oil by mortar and pestle
Ingredients mixed in pyrex measuring cup and place in preheated oven at 120 degrees C
For 100 minutes.
Filter out plant material and use oil as is.

Now, did not cook this up @ 120 degrees C beforehand like the stuff for the ethanol extraction or stuff i have used to make butter.

My thinking is that decarbing will be taken care of by the exposure to 120 degrees in the extraction process, no need to do it twice.

One interesting take from the paper linked above is that the terpenes seem to get degraded or evaporated off during a decarb process??

I'm hoping this method will retain them.

Also, that paper had a bit of analysis of solvent residuals left. Having seen that i would not be wanting to use naphtha or pet ether. And thats not considering that those are very dangerous to use in the kitchen. :)

Have it cooking at the moment. Will report success or failure later on.

seeyahs all!
 
Jedthedog said:
Glad to have found this as we have been making and using tincture for about 4 years . After a few trial and errors this is what we do . We decarb 50 grams of bud in a Ardent Nova decarb machine,all automatic just push the button. Once the bud is decarbed add 50 grams with 2 1/2 cups of Everclear and 2 tablespoons of Lecithin to the magic butter machine. Let the machine run 8 hours strain and you are finished .. This method works very well . Also have a jar sitting in the cabinet with 50 grams of decarbed bud covered with Everclear,has been setting April 1st will have been a year ..
Click to expand...

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE my Nova machine. Have also been gently simmering and eating the trim from my plants in flower--leaves from early flower defoliation--and they will get you high as heck.
 
Oil extraction not so good. :( Think will include decarb step next time.

Alcohol extracted stuff nice so i think from now on will go with what i know works.

Have a pile of leaf with some older buds decarbing in the oven at the moment.
I need to move some stuff on from the freezer as have another
harvest coming up in about 4 weeks so will do another extract and maybe some butter.
 
Hey everyone been away awhile. Learning. Nice to read the ongoing thread.

Since my last tinc trial, I went on to try others. Extended decarb time to 1h20min at 120degC.
Tried using peaty scotch 48.5% alcohol. Better taste than Bacardi151 and def less burn in mouth. Less potent though (or maybe the mitigating effect of CBD as the strain was blue blood). Just reckon I could add some more decarbed weed at some point to make it more concentrated. Another 151 tinc with OGkush is good. Sorry can't recall measurements!

Most recently I tried coconut oil. 21g decarbed (3 x 7g of each strains - liberty haze, spacebomb and OGkush) in 300mls oil. Double top boiler at ~90degC for 90mins. Strain and solidify in fridge. 1tsp of this kicks in from about 1hr, builds higher and peaks 2.5-3hrs and lasts a few hrs thereafter. Good stuff. Made some more chocolates with this instead of butter to melt down with. Forgot lecithin (well, it had gone off in pantry!) so just as it was - bam, nice strength, tasty and effective edible.
 
"Most recently I tried coconut oil."

I tried coconut oil. Personally, didn't like the flavor / texture though i love coconut normally.

Have had success with making butter and using for oatmeal brownies. Though, i have a lot of hassle getting the brownies (no bake type) to actually set in the fridge.

Typical bloke cooking skills. Can do meat, fish and crayfish. Good with a Wok. :) Terrible at anything remotely reminiscent of being baked. :(

Was doing the teaspoon of butter in a coffee as my preferred way to take it, but 1/2 dropper of tincture much better. Doesn't make the coffee taste fatty like a rancid Yak has pissed in it.

Anyway, filtered and evaporated down the extraction i started / decarbed on the 07/02/2018.

Total 66g. 16g buds, rest is a mix of older buds and leaf (50g)
Decarbed 120 degrees / 1hour
Chopped and into AR grade Ethanol 8/02/18. 2 bottles @ 33g / 300ml ethanol each.
In fridge @ 4 degrees in dark. Shake often as poss.
Poured off ethanol. Filtered through Whatman #1
Add clean ethanol and do second 4hr run on same material.
Pour off ethanol. Filtered through Whatman #1

Wound up with about 1l of very green ethanol in a 2l pyrex beaker.

Set up hotplate in a fume hood with a 4l pyrex beaker with water on it.
Place 2l beaker inside this in the water and run hotplate on max. As long as you dont let
ALL the ethanol evaporate temp wont go over 82 degrees C.

Evaped off the ethanol to about 100ml in 2.5 hrs.
Dispense to 6 x 25ml dropper bottles.
Wash glassware with 60ml clean ethanol and divide washing ethanol equally between the 6 dropper bottles.

This eve i tried ½ a dropper sublingual @18:50 hrs 120218.
Definite effect by 19:05.
@ 22:48 hrs 120218 still have definite effect going on and suspect will sleep quite well.

This extraction stronger than the first one i did. :)

Tincture seems a very clean, neat and discrete way to use cannabis.

Will have to read up on using tinctures to make edibles. And maybe getting cannabis into honey?

Our local Jarrah Honey is a coming thing in terms of medicinal honey. There is now an "activity rating" number for it to quantify anti fungal and anti microbial characteristics. And it tastes really good. :) Not cheap, but i like a good, unprocessed honey.

Jarrah and marri honey: A liquid goldrush of medical benefits - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Different from the Manuka / Leptospermum honey in terms of activity, texture and taste. And, trying to buy Manuka online is a pain due to our state quarantine rules. :(

Oils dont mix well with honey (tried that... :( ) but alcohol based tincture might?? Anyone tried this??
 
Phil - agree tincture a great method of administration. Need to work on making mine more potent. Had thought about heating them to evaporate alcohol and reduce but not sure about this and reckon i'm going to just add more weed to try to supersaturate the tinc.

Never tried honey but I came across a thread somewhere which caught my eye, as I too love honey. I still have a jar of jarra but haven't seen it around for awhile. Got plenty of manuka/jellybox lepto honies. I am very partial to Tasmanian Leatherwood honey. Anyway, here's the essence of what the infused honey involved. Ratio was 28g weed to 1kg honey.

Take a doubled piece of cheesecloth and place the crushed cannabis on it. Roll up the cheesecloth like you do with an egg roll. Now take a piece of string and tie it gently around the cheesecloth at one end, center and the other end so that cannabis is secure and does not flow out into the honey. Don’t wrap the cheesecloth too tightly as honey should enter it freely.

In the meantime place the honey in a crock pot at very low temperature and heat it. Place the bundle of marijuana in the honey in the crock pot. Cover the crock pot and let it simmer on very low heat for 4 hours. After each hour stir the marijuana bundle. After each hour you will notice a change in colour from light orange to a darker orange. Make sure you don’t boil the mixture or it will lose all its properties. To ensure it retains its potency cook on very low heat. After four hours switch off the crock pot and allow the mixture to sit overnight.

Next morning if the mixture is not of pouring consistency then warm it up a bit. Now put on the rubber gloves and gently squeeze the bundle. Get out as much as you can. Once the mixture is out of the bundle give it a twist to wring out the last of it. Pour the marijuana honey from the crock pot into jars for storing away.
 
Thanks for that Kbomb. :)

On evaporating the alcohol, its the easiest way to make the extract more concentrated. I have made it a rule to not hit the weed or extract at any stage with anything higher than the 120 degrees C i use for the hours worth of decarboxcylation in the oven. Alcohol extraction time is spent in the fridge. :)

To evaporate, have monitored temp and that doesn't go above 81 degrees C. So, terpenes get lost (and that happens during decarboxylation) and it winds up a high THC extract. I use quite a lot of alcohol in volume terms so that i get all the goodies out. Better extraction efficiency and alcohol is cheap.. "supersaturate" by using more weed?? Not so sure on that. Evaporation of the solvent to concentrate an extract seems to be an old and well established technique. Just be well ventilated and no naked flames!!

Have seen that method for infusion of honey. Bit like making infused butter?? I'd make sure to use decarbed weed. What i wanted to avoid was heating the honey in any way. The "medicinal" jarrah honey with a number / rating is not really something i want to heat treat.

So...am wondering if can achieve a honey infusion by adding an alcohol extract / tincture to honey at room temp??

Anyway, think will just have to try it in the next few days and see what happens. That's the nice thing about growing my own. Can experiment and if doesn't work no big deal.

Seeyahs!
 
Hey phil, This is why I love the Nova decarb machine: because I was searching and searching for a method of decarbing that would preserve the integrity of the terpenes, and the Nova does that with a low temp. I have bud that I decarbed in November, and it smells fabulous.
 
Hey Phil,

i'd bet you could just add some of your tinc to honey, yes. Especially if you've evaporated off the alcohol. You'd have to work out volumes of tinc to volume of honey to establish a 'strength' according to your needs (compared to my bacardi151 tinc, a wee bit of honey on the tongue would be much more pleasant!). As you say, if you have enough weed, you can experiment all you like! Might be something i'll try one day too...

By 'supersaturate', I meant that surely after soaking some weed in alcohol to extract as much cannabinoid as possible (I use onkruid's method from the start of this thread - freezer, for 2wks, shaken daily), my experiments thus far have left a tinc that isn't as potent as i'd like, but still sting like there is plenty of alcohol left over. So...I figure I simply add more decarbed weed to the tinc and go another 2wks in the freezer and the remaining alcohol will continue to extract cannabinoids, therefore making an even more concentrated tinc? Figure I could do this repeatedly until there was not enough alcohol left over to extract anything (not sure if the alcohol gets 'used up' in this process?). So then figured that I could heat it up if I wanted to reduce it to a smaller volume (and even greater potency in terms of cannabinoids per mL). Can I ask where you get your ethanol from? Most of what I read on this topic before giving it a go was Americans using 'everclear'. Where do you get it south of the equator? 151 was about the strongest alcohol I could get hold of (DanM) apart from some crazy drinks I didn't fancy trying in my mouth!

Also another Q - my method of decarbing is to use a bowl/baking dish in the oven but covered with aluminium foil. I leave it on after removing the dish from the oven til cool. I was under the impression that this would retain the terpenes etc (or most of them anyway). Thoughts?
 
Hey, some fellow ethanol tincture fans! We seem to be in the minority here. Not sure how I've missed this thread.

FWIW ethanol extraction of cannabinoids occurs almost instantaneously, however, in a stagnant state, the ethanol in direct contact with the material quickly becomes saturated and repeated agitation at intervals are definitely advantageous. I never let mine soak longer than 2 hours. You'll never achieve more than a 75% extraction rate and anything longer will only extract more chlorophyll, waxes and flavonoids that adversely effect taste.

Prior to introduction of the ethanol, I leave my material in the freezer for ~24 hrs shaking it vigorously 3-4 times. This breaks the trichomes loose from the plant material, evidenced by the dusty brown residue that will collect at the bottom and walls of the mason jar I use. The separated trichomes offer better availability for the ethanol to perform its magic.
 
Kbomb said:
Hey Phil,

i'd bet you could just add some of your tinc to honey, yes. Especially if you've evaporated off the alcohol. You'd have to work out volumes of tinc to volume of honey to establish a 'strength' according to your needs (compared to my bacardi151 tinc, a wee bit of honey on the tongue would be much more pleasant!). As you say, if you have enough weed, you can experiment all you like! Might be something i'll try one day too...

By 'supersaturate', I meant that surely after soaking some weed in alcohol to extract as much cannabinoid as possible (I use onkruid's method from the start of this thread - freezer, for 2wks, shaken daily), my experiments thus far have left a tinc that isn't as potent as i'd like, but still sting like there is plenty of alcohol left over. So...I figure I simply add more decarbed weed to the tinc and go another 2wks in the freezer and the remaining alcohol will continue to extract cannabinoids, therefore making an even more concentrated tinc? Figure I could do this repeatedly until there was not enough alcohol left over to extract anything (not sure if the alcohol gets 'used up' in this process?). So then figured that I could heat it up if I wanted to reduce it to a smaller volume (and even greater potency in terms of cannabinoids per mL). Can I ask where you get your ethanol from? Most of what I read on this topic before giving it a go was Americans using 'everclear'. Where do you get it south of the equator? 151 was about the strongest alcohol I could get hold of (DanM) apart from some crazy drinks I didn't fancy trying in my mouth!

Also another Q - my method of decarbing is to use a bowl/baking dish in the oven but covered with aluminium foil. I leave it on after removing the dish from the oven til cool. I was under the impression that this would retain the terpenes etc (or most of them anyway). Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Terpene retention is a really big challenge because they are so volatile. Even when properly processed cannabis, terpene loss is immediate and rapid.

Commercial extraction of terpenes is done by introduction of heat, usually in the form of steam, and then collected through condensation by lowering the temperature, all done while in a sealed environment.

We can actually replicate this theory, sort of, by decarbing in a sealed container and then placing in the freezer as soon as the temp drops a bit, all done without opening the container.

Even with these precautions, however, terpenes are still elusive. There's not a single extraction method that is totally effective for all. Ethanol is the most efficient for many but some are more readily extracted with co2 and still others are actually better leached out in water, although this group is small in number.

I still use the best measures I know of to preserve terpenes in processing tincture but have been recently experimenting with terpene blend additives with decent results.
 
Hi Kbomb, wrote this a couple days ago and then forums down?

Bucudinkdows post interest me. :)


Ok, my understanding of extraction efficiency and "saturation" in terms of solutions. Just had a brownie so make allowances. :)

A certain amount of any substance will dissolve in an appropriate solvent. When the solvent is "saturated" , as much of that substance as the volume of solvent CAN carry is dissolved in it. In this context the resins in the weed dissolve into the ethanol, at first very quickly, but as the concentration in the ethanol increases, and the concentration in the weed decreases, the rate its getting dissolved into the ethanol (extracted from the weed) slows down, until you reach an equilibrium and no more gets dissolved / extracted.

That does not mean that there aren't more goodies still in the weed.

So, you do the extraction and pour off the ethanol into a bottle. Then, you add more new, clean ethanol and repeat the process to dissolve/extract more resins. It will reach another equilibrium and most likely after a second extraction on the same weed you will be at a point of diminishing returns so don't bother with a third run.

Now alcohol is a lot cheaper than weed even if you are growing your own. Yup, adding more weed to a given volume of alcohol should make the tinc stronger, but for efficiency i reckon use more alcohol and do two extraction runs. If you are loading up on the weed, definitely do two extractions on the same material. Second run can be shorter i think as you should get most of the good stuff dissolved on the first round.

Then evaporate down the whole lot to concentrate. The alcohol does get "used up" but its in terms of its capacity to take up the resins into solution out of the weed.

"Can I ask where you get your ethanol from?: You can ask. :)

I have access to analytical grade reagents through my work and can skim off a bit of cheap stuff like ethanol every now and again. I use AR grade as its about the purest you can get and has very low levels of alcohols normal contaminants like methanol, benzene, toluene.....

If i didn't have access to this i'd be looking as the best, strongest, vodka i could get. Know anyone travelling who can get you duty free from OS?? 160 proof is 80% ethanol..which should work pretty well.

"impression that this would retain the terpenes"

May help i guess. From my limited understanding of and reading on this so far i think its the temps needed to decarb THCA that boil off terpenes pretty fast in the oven anyway.

I am going to do a bit of reading on the machine referred to up-thread? Possible something like that could do a decent decarb and retain terpenes?? But i'm not sure if loss of terpenes is a physical boiling off, or actual denaturing of the terpene molecules by heat, or a combination of both??

Interesting to think about though. :) Seeyahs
 
Hey peeps! Had occasion to socialise of late, and finding the tincture really good. A half a dropper in a black coffee works well. 2 or three of those over a night out keeps a good but not gaga buzz going. :)

Did an extraction Friday. 16g of bud (decarbed in the oven for 60mins @ 120 degrees C ) into 500ml ethanol for 6 hours @ 4 degrees C. In the fridge in the dark at the moment at the 25 micron filtered stage. Will evaporate monday.

Have been reading and wanted to try a shorter extraction time than the days i had been doing, and try it without a second run on the extraction to see if it makes any difference.

That said am going to evap this right right down to sludge, add total of 25 ml of ethanol to wash the final glassware, and try to do a strong tincture.

Though about evaporating all the way and doing a hash like substance? But if i do that i almost certainly end up with something sticky and messy, hard to handle. The convenience of a tincture that can be used by the drop or dropper in a drink or straight under the tongue is great.

Have pretty much settled my method i think as something convenient and cheap.

Decarb the weed 60mins @120 degrees.
Put dry broken up weed in stainless french coffee press.
Pour in solvent, lid on but press up and shake.
In fridge for X?? hours. Shake occasionally.
Push press down.
Pour out solvent through a 25 micron filter into beaker / jar while
pushing the press in hard to squeeze last of the ethanol out.
?? Can do quick second run of weed ??
Evaporate solvent carefully to about half the final volume required ( evap to say 25ml) and bottle.
Use 25ml fresh solvent to wash out final evaporation glassware and add that to bottle.

50ml tincture. :)


Now, to find a salad dressing recipe to use the olive oil in infused a while ago........ :)
 
Thanx for sharing your process, Phil.

I've tried numerous extraction methods and have to agree with you, ethanol extracted tincture is my favorite methodology. With respect to ease of prep, efficiency of extraction, convenience in dosing and versatility it's difficult to find a better process.

From the basic tincture, it's a simple matter to do a transfer to an oil for edibles by doing a complete evaporation and then reconstitute in an oil of your choice (or butter) with application of some low heat for a short period.

A transfer to vegetable glycerine is also possible but a little more involved.

In addition to being used in edibles, you can also do some caps at this point. I find these less conspicuous than a dropper bottle when traveling or visiting friends.

A caution for those doing a reduction using 150-151 proof alcohol. 150 proof contains 25% water and since ethanol will evaporate at a much greater rate than water, your water to alcohol ratio is going rapidly increase during the process and you'll begin to get separation. This will appear as a yucky, milky looking substance toward the end of your reduction. Don't panic if this occurs, just carry it to a complete reduction and then re-constitute with virgin alcohol to obtain your desired potency.

I'm in an oppressively humid climate and even using 190 everclear, I get insane separation and am also forced to do a complete reduction.

Would be interested in hearing about other success stories in tincture processes.

BCDD
 
Pressure Cooker for decarboxylation

Found this tread. Decarb with weed in smallish, sealed container?

Way of decarbing and retaining the terpenes that get boiled off if you decarb in the oven??

Think i may try this.
 
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