Help: Plant been sick for over a month

[Emilya Green]

drying to the bone you lose the cie cat ion exchange , you kill fine roots, you slow the microbe herd down to nothing , the medium becomes hydrophobic, you get a large perched water table after heavy watering then , your nutes become less available as they become solids over time . you use more nutrients

No one has suggested drying things out to the point that you are harping on here. Yes, you COULD dry things out this badly, but no one here has suggested doing so and none of what you state above is true in one of our grows. We don't do extended drought.

 

[NuttyProfessor]

 

[013]

I think part of the problem is with new growers and most big box soil products we have to push the wet dry cycle really hard on the faq pages to move newbies down the court. There’s merit in both top watering and bottom watering, but so many here water too frequently that we have to get newbies adjusted to lift the pot method and a container of dry soil should be as light as a feather and all that jazz. I’m not knocking the wet dry cycle - it’s a valuable tool to build up that rootball.

Heres where I hit the wall.... if microbes die when they dry out..... how come I can buy a packet of freeze dried XYZ product (inset the brand name of your choice here like Real Growers Recharge or that sponsored fizz) shipped to me bone dry and vacuum packed and it will grow microbes when I add it to water? These microbes can chew thru lava rock or an ice age - am I right or am I headed for the looney bin? Don’t answer that! Obviously it’s better to not diminish the microherd

Yes for many folks it’s best to run wet dry cycle real hard in veg with most commercial soils. Yes the rules can change when you do a supersoil, a mineralized soil or LOS or if you have real skills.

Parra I see a little bit of tipping and some light bleached spots, maybe a touch of rust and while I’m not familiar with Gaia Green it looks like mag def. you know cal & mag power up so many processes, I don’t have the keen eye or deep horticulture background to pick out all the nuances and interactions. I wish you had the option to run a few side by side where you could run 1 plant by the book and play with a few others. I think you are perhaps too conservative on dosing your nutes but I know you are following the Gaia Green info to the best of your ability and sadly this is a one shot deal so you can hit Asia soon too.

I didn’t help any Parra but your crew looks good. Sometime a grow will be perfectly green right up to harvest, other times not so much. Practice makes perfect - so if not now, then maybe next time!

 

[NuttyProfessor]

@013 i have got bigger root balls with experiments using the bottom watering practice , THERE IS MORE CHANCE OF NEW GROWER'S OVER WATERING FROM THE TOP THAN THE BOTTOM ITS 100 PERCENT SAFER , THE MEDIUM SOAKS UP ENOUGH TO BECOME MOIST NOT SOAKED,
ROOTS DO NOT SEARCH FOR WATER , Plants they have no brain , they grow perfectly in moist soil , when fine roots become dry the die off , when plants put down roots they will grow down threw damp soil until they hit DRY soil and stop as it will damage the smallest root hairs ,
i have read countless posts where ems has told people to wait to the day after the droop, dryer than the Sahara desert, light as a feather , , the plant is already stressed at this stage and fine roots are lost , i changed my sad faces to hearts @Emilya hope this makes you feel better


The products being used as i said is a super soil mix blended and coated so there is no dust , there is actually a lot more BETTER ingredients in these mixes than i use in my soil so it must be the luck of the Irish and nothing to do with keeping my soil moist*-
MICROBES GO Dormant IN A PACKET, Its keeping them alive and working is key and to do this you need MOIST soil, Can you breed microbes in a dry bucket ? , no you need moisture

bit funny its my first time against all the wet dry rules , maybe i am blessed , maybe i should have kept it secret and not give out good info to new growers
If someone was to show me some little tricks or ANOTHER WAY TO TRY i would have been delighted

so here is my organic HYDRO LOL
The proof is in the pudding not stuck in the ass of a dry pot wilting


beginners luck eyy

this is the wet dry last run 4 plants

And this is trying keeping moist 3 plants

 

[013]

I use bottom watering too. That’s the only way I could beat fungus gnats....

One bit of watering tech that I have tried and love is copied from he who shall remain unnamed but it’s bottom watering and then pouring a gallon or two down the hatch, then lifting it out and tilting the container. It will gurgle and bubble but for sure it works better in plastic containers tho.

A new factor for me is I’m finally adopting fabric bags but these are 30 gallons of LOS so I’ve got to water differently.... there’s no way I can bottom water 30 gallon bags. iIn the past I have always used black plastic nursery pots or air pots so this will be fun.

 

[Emilya Green]

@parrajara, please excuse me one more comment to Nutty since he is using your thread to try to make his points.

Nothing but bro-science and opinion in that above piece my @NuttyProfessor friend... microbes don't die when we force the plant to use all of the water. Root hairs don't die during this time either, actually the opposite happens. Every time I force a wet/dry cycle... let me repeat that... every time I force a wet dry cycle, the next cycle goes faster. The plant grows MORE roots in response to the dry out, not less. Also, you have changed my words a bit... I have NEVER said to get them dryer than the Sahara Desert... just as dry. lol I don't say to water the day after the droop... I say that the droop is the sign that it is time to water and that is showing you that you have about 12 hours of water left. For those using the dip stick method, I never have said to send the container to total dryness... I have always said to water when the top of the water table gets to the last inch or so. It's easy to attack someone and try to make yourself sound smart, when you take their words out of context and assign your own meanings to what they say, isn't it?

You seem to now want to try to disprove my wet/dry cycle theories, and you are pulling out every silly theory and opinion you have in order to do so and now are even trying to get Geoflora to back you up, not knowing what you are up to. Good luck. Also, changing your emoticons to hearts is fine... but you are still trolling me. Also, please note that it would be so easy to go on your personal journal and make light of your methods and add emoticons to the things you say and do... but I thought we had an agreement. I am not going to do as you have, and trod down that ugly road.

 

[parrajara]

Parra I see a little bit of tipping and some light bleached spots, maybe a touch of rust and while I’m not familiar with Gaia Green it looks like mag def. you know cal & mag power up so many processes, I don’t have the keen eye or deep horticulture background to pick out all the nuances and interactions. I wish you had the option to run a few side by side where you could run 1 plant by the book and play with a few others. I think you are perhaps too conservative on dosing your nutes but I know you are following the Gaia Green info to the best of your ability and sadly this is a one shot deal so you can hit Asia soon too.

I didn’t help any Parra but your crew looks good. Sometime a grow will be perfectly green right up to harvest, other times not so much. Practice makes perfect - so if not now, then maybe next time!

You're always helpful my friend! I actually just took some pictures when the lights went off with flash. I hope this gives you guys a better look.

I just watered both of them, but I should have watered Cannabitch yesterday... ugh been busy. Anyway...

@Emilya, what do you think about mag def, or other potebtial issues?

 

[Emilya Green]

Mag presents differently than this... I think you are looking at the plant wanting/needing more potassium here at the end. This is when giving terpinator can help quite a bit.

 

[parrajara]

Mag presents differently than this... I think you are looking at the plant wanting/needing more potassium here at the end. This is when giving terpinator can help quite a bit.

Better get to it!

 

[Dunnysparks]

Hey Dunny, thank you for taking your time to stop by! I am feeding them Gaia green organic nutrients, a mixture of all purpose 4-4-4 and bloom 2-8-4. I am also giving them Gaia green EWC. According to the manufacturer the plants should be fed once a month, and I fed them 2x in the last month already. They never fully regained their green after feeding them, but they did partially. @013 did suggest it was NItrogen as well, and the reason I believe that may not be the issue, is because after feeding them on April 12th and 13th they got a bit better but not fully green... and as of today it has only been 13 days since last feeding them.

When I posted about the issue it was on April 18th, only 5-6 days after feeding the plants. By the 7th day of feeding them, 013 suggested it was Nitrogen deficiency. How can the plants go through full months supply in less than a week? In a matter of days? Emilya has taught me that a plant that stays in vegetation for longer period will develop more, and stronger, roots. This means the plant will consume more food, and perhaps more than what manufacturers suggest... opposite to my initial belief - that manufacturers suggested you use more food, to increase their profitability.

Last feeding I also gave them an extra tablespoon of fertilizer from the monthly recommended dose... Is it likely they really consumed over a months supply in a matter of days? Or is there another phenomena that is inhibiting their ability to properly consume already available nutrients... ?
Maybe nutrient lock out? It doesn't make sense. I didnt see u mentioning flushing them at all. What's your ph at the soil. This is a little out my league bro. U are in to flower by the looks of photos now right. They are going to take almost what ever you through at them depending on the strain. The buds are going to suck those leaves of everything they got. I wouldn't worry bro. Only thing I can recommend is finding your ph in the soil or a good flush. It might just be something that simple as a ph fluctuation.

 

[013]

So check out this series of photos, this was a seedling that’s been real wet and I wanted her to dry out more to be ready for an upcan. She was grown in clear plastic cup with outer foil sleeve, it isn’t so much that roots air prune - pretty sure what is going on is light pruning not air pruning.

I took her out of the clear cup and wrapped in black landscape fabric and left her dry out for 20 hours. See the roots that grew thru the bottom they must be searching for something.

This soil is bone dry, those white roots are healthy as ever.

here she grew white roots thru the black plastic landscape fabric

266BFC35-AB98-4E29-929C-D946992FD534.jpeg

• 013
• Apr 27, 2021

Watch the zig zag root and the straight root in each pic

BBF80901-6BFE-4F9A-B98A-F7856F12E1CF.jpeg

• 013
• Apr 27, 2021

see that fuzzy business that’s air roots

2BFEA861-A9FF-422E-AEBA-5F7DFE3BF0E4.jpeg

• 013
• Apr 27, 2021

close up of dry soil & fuzzy root

719D9F14-B533-4FE9-93E4-BAEED2EB5414.jpeg

• 013
• Apr 27, 2021

another shot

B957A501-C230-4F16-8B6B-BB56FDA13E7C.jpeg

• 013
• Apr 27, 2021

last one

11F3F065-A38A-4C34-9A60-C8BA6FD717D6.jpeg

• 013
• Apr 27, 2021

This is what happened after I sprayed room temp well water on them, boom the air roots disappear

EDCBD32A-8325-491A-A46E-018F356AB089.jpeg

• 013
• Apr 27, 2021

fine air roots shrunk back immediately after being watered - the dark landscape cloth afforded me that view, so it’s light pruning not air pruning.....

CF27A8CD-CC16-457F-968A-4C807DDEA91D.jpeg

• 013
• Apr 27, 2021

 

[013]

Shit wasn’t done with the edit but system won’t let me go back to that previous post.

Anyway the fine capillary roots seek out water when it’s dry and then they retreated as soon as they were watered.

 

[NuttyProfessor]

The roots are the same but wet , the medium also shrinks when bone dry then expands causing vacuum in the pots

Do this test and get a better result

let 2 pots dry out , bottom water one , top water the other , the one you top water let run off come through , then let drip for couple of minutes , After a couple of minutes when the pot stops dripping , slide out the plant , I bet you the bottom has a large perched water table and the pot has vacuum more water that the medium needs , when you slide it out a lot more water will start dripping , this is all EXCESS WATER right at the roots held there by vacuum @013 Try it then get back , it will shock you the excess

 

[013]

Parra,

I’ve noticed that once a plant is in flower and a deficiency pops up then it’s not easy to turn back around. Maybe Nutty and Emilya know how to pull out of a nose dive....

 

[013]

I believe you Nutty but yes I will play with that. I’m switching over from plastic to fabric so that’s new. Think about how many times have you seen me say tilt the pot to a steep angle and leave it propped up overnight, it forces the perched water table to reset to lower level so yes there is tons of excess water wicked up and held by the media, container and plant

 

[parrajara]

Parra,

I’ve noticed that once a plant is in flower and a deficiency pops up then it’s not easy to turn back around. Maybe Nutty and Emilya know how to pull out of a nose dive....

Emilya suggested it looks like Potassium deficiency, and after looking online at cases of potassium deficiency on cannabis, my ladies are displaying very much the same symptoms. With this in mind, she suggested Terpinator which is 0-0-4, so I am trying to source it locally. Closest one I can find is 35 min drive each way Anything for my lovely ladies though ❤

Also took a look at those pictures man, soooo interesting! I love learning these things. When/if I settle back in Canada, I will be growing and experimenting with tons of different ways!

 

[NuttyProfessor]

Also remember Potassium will be less available in dry soil , don let them dry completely . even let dry 60 % my whole point of many posts , sorry about all the exchanges , sometimes it can be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other

parrajara​

when you get going again start a journal and we can get you off to a better start ​

 

[NuttyProfessor]

I believe you Nutty but yes I will play with that. I’m switching over from plastic to fabric so that’s new. Think about how many times have you seen me say tilt the pot to a steep angle and leave it propped up overnight, it forces the perched water table to reset to lower level so yes there is tons of excess water wicked up and held by the media, container and plant

Yes ive seen you say plenty
,

 

[parrajara]

Alrighty, I took the plunge and drove 35 mins each way to get my ladies what they needed. It is important to me (for no reason, other than personal desire) to have a fully organic grow, so I did not get the terpinator but I did get seaweed extract 0-0-17. It does say foliar application is best, but it's too late for that... so I am watering it into the soil. I also am feeding them some 2-8-4 and EWC. I showed pictures to the guy at the hydroponic store and he said they look hungry. I explained to him that I fed them the monthly recommended dose twice in the last 4 weeks so I was worried to overfeed them, he said not to worry about it.. It's not that I don't trust you guys, but this guy works and grows with Gaia green as well.. so he knows how the product works.

I will update you all in about a week to see how they are doing!

What do you guys think of Cannabitch? Aside from not having the greatest color, I've noticed the leaves don't quite perk up like they should even after watering.

 

[Tbe]

Ready to eat . Good job