Re: Hosted Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Oh! No!
pun of the month
Oh! No!
Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED
- Thread starter Keith Lake
- Start date
Re: Hosted Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
I had a very nice Christmas with family and friends.
Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays, regardless of their faith, and best wishes for everyone in the coming New Year!
merry xmas everyone
pun of the month
20 days in and I have just noticed this thread. DUH...OK, Merry Christmas everyone.
Thanks for this journal. I am incredibly excited to see the end of this no matter what the outcome.
Oh! No!
I had a very nice Christmas with family and friends
.Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays, regardless of their faith, and best wishes for everyone in the coming New Year!
Re: Hosted Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
TEMPS AND OTHER STUFF
The temp sensors inside the tents were not secured well enough and had been moving around some. I secured each of them using the tube junction at the middle of the tents as a mark.
HydroGrowLED
Haight Solid State
ambient
With the sensors secured more accurately, temps with lights on were equal when I took the pic. The HSS tent is usually running an insignificant 0.5-1.0 degree higher after the sensor fix.
Next are temps of the top of each light:
Haight Solid State
HydroGrowLED
The infrared thermometer turns itself off after 20 seconds and that "feature" is not defeatable. That made it a real pain to get a good pic of the reading before it timed out, so for temps of the canopies, I just wrote them down:
HydroGrowLED:
12" off the canopy - 75F on the center pots, 70F on the outside pots
6" off the canopy - 75F on the center pots, 70F on the outside pots
Haight Solid State:
12" off the canopy - 75F on the center pots, 72F on the outside pots
6" off the canopy - 75F on the center pots, 73F on the outside pots
Now some pics of how the lights mount:
HydroGrowLED. The distance from the top of the light to the wire loops is 8.5".
Haight Solid State. I asked HSS and they recommended a clearance of 6" between light and ceiling for adequate cooling.
The seedlings are all displaying some degree of wrinkly leaves, but seem to be doing well. The HGL seedlings are shorter and stockier, while the HSS seedlings are a bit taller, but not stretchy-looking by any means.
I'll post some seedling pics at 2 weeks veg.
TEMPS AND OTHER STUFF
The temp sensors inside the tents were not secured well enough and had been moving around some. I secured each of them using the tube junction at the middle of the tents as a mark.
HydroGrowLED
Haight Solid State
ambient
With the sensors secured more accurately, temps with lights on were equal when I took the pic. The HSS tent is usually running an insignificant 0.5-1.0 degree higher after the sensor fix.
Next are temps of the top of each light:
Haight Solid State
HydroGrowLED
The infrared thermometer turns itself off after 20 seconds and that "feature" is not defeatable. That made it a real pain to get a good pic of the reading before it timed out, so for temps of the canopies, I just wrote them down:
HydroGrowLED:
12" off the canopy - 75F on the center pots, 70F on the outside pots
6" off the canopy - 75F on the center pots, 70F on the outside pots
Haight Solid State:
12" off the canopy - 75F on the center pots, 72F on the outside pots
6" off the canopy - 75F on the center pots, 73F on the outside pots
Now some pics of how the lights mount:
HydroGrowLED. The distance from the top of the light to the wire loops is 8.5".
Haight Solid State. I asked HSS and they recommended a clearance of 6" between light and ceiling for adequate cooling.
The seedlings are all displaying some degree of wrinkly leaves, but seem to be doing well. The HGL seedlings are shorter and stockier, while the HSS seedlings are a bit taller, but not stretchy-looking by any means.
I'll post some seedling pics at 2 weeks veg.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
DAY 11 VEG
DAY 11 VEG
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Pots haven't dried out yet, so I'm going to hold off on watering until they get light.
I guess the wrinkly leaves can be normal for seedlings grown under LED's.
They seem to be doing OK.
Will try to update again on Wednesday, at 2 weeks veg. I'm thinking of using a height of 12" as end-point for veg.
Pots haven't dried out yet, so I'm going to hold off on watering until they get light.
I guess the wrinkly leaves can be normal for seedlings grown under LED's.
They seem to be doing OK.
Will try to update again on Wednesday, at 2 weeks veg. I'm thinking of using a height of 12" as end-point for veg.
MI-grower
Well-Known Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Looks like there is no big difference in height so far. Both set Plants look pretty healthy bro.. Keep up the good work.. Their coming along nicely..
Looks like there is no big difference in height so far. Both set Plants look pretty healthy bro.. Keep up the good work.. Their coming along nicely..
WarBux79
Well-Known Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Hey SS good to hear you had a good Christmas. What are those temp sensors and display your using? I like the fact that they don't have any big parts to heat up and display inaccurate readings.
Hey SS good to hear you had a good Christmas. What are those temp sensors and display your using? I like the fact that they don't have any big parts to heat up and display inaccurate readings.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
thank you MI-grower!
I appreciate your support and encouragement.
thanks WarBux! I hope your Christmas was good as well!
here's a link to the power supply/temp display:
Coolerguys Deluxe 2 amp AC/DC adapter with dual thermal monitors
thanks again brother!
Looks like there is no big difference in height so far. Both set Plants look pretty healthy bro.. Keep up the good work.. Their coming along nicely..
thank you MI-grower!
I appreciate your support and encouragement
.thanks WarBux! I hope your Christmas was good as well!
here's a link to the power supply/temp display:
Coolerguys Deluxe 2 amp AC/DC adapter with dual thermal monitors
thanks again brother!
1234a5678b
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Looking good so far.
For what it's worth:
If that's what you mean by wrinkled leaves, my WW did the same thing without any negative effects.
Looking good so far.
For what it's worth:
If that's what you mean by wrinkled leaves, my WW did the same thing without any negative effects.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
thanks 1234a5678b!
I appreciate the feedback on the wrinkled leaves. I've never seen it under HID, so have to assume it has something to do with LED's.
Hard to see from the pics, but the HSS seedlings are about 1/2-1" taller than the HGL, which makes sense from the HGL light being lower.
I turned up my space heater to get temps more in the center of desirable range as opposed to the colder end. Should be at 75 degrees ambient by tonight, up from 69-70.
thanks for stopping by bro!
thanks 1234a5678b!
I appreciate the feedback on the wrinkled leaves. I've never seen it under HID, so have to assume it has something to do with LED's.
Hard to see from the pics, but the HSS seedlings are about 1/2-1" taller than the HGL, which makes sense from the HGL light being lower.
I turned up my space heater to get temps more in the center of desirable range as opposed to the colder end. Should be at 75 degrees ambient by tonight, up from 69-70.
thanks for stopping by bro!
CharlieMopps
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Yeah, i would say that could be a drawback from an led only grow, that there is not enough heat to keep the tent at a good temperature.
Yeah, i would say that could be a drawback from an led only grow, that there is not enough heat to keep the tent at a good temperature.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Absolutely.
In my climate, if these LED's pan out, I would be using them mostly in the summer because my garage is unheated. Without the space heater I have in there now, temps would be way too cold to grow.
In the winter, I need the heat from HID's to keep my tents warm enough.
I may have a central furnace heated grow room in the future, and then it wouldn't be an issue.
that is a spot-on observation Charlie. Anyone who depends on the heat from their HID light(s) to achieve proper grow temps would not get enough heat from LED's.
Using a 1500w space heater to warm my garage is not energy-efficient, but it's my only choice at the moment.
thanks bro!
Absolutely.
In my climate, if these LED's pan out, I would be using them mostly in the summer because my garage is unheated. Without the space heater I have in there now, temps would be way too cold to grow.
In the winter, I need the heat from HID's to keep my tents warm enough.
I may have a central furnace heated grow room in the future, and then it wouldn't be an issue.
that is a spot-on observation Charlie. Anyone who depends on the heat from their HID light(s) to achieve proper grow temps would not get enough heat from LED's.
Using a 1500w space heater to warm my garage is not energy-efficient, but it's my only choice at the moment.
thanks bro!
1234a5678b
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
I'm using the heat from my HID box to heat my living room. At 1000 watts, it's actually cheaper to run than a 1500 watt space heater.
I'm using the heat from my HID box to heat my living room. At 1000 watts, it's actually cheaper to run than a 1500 watt space heater.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Well, my experience with using the 1500w space heater has been interesting, at least for me, because I've never kept one on long enough for them to really work semi-efficiently.
I'm using a ceramic radiant heater about the same size as those oil-filled radiator ones, and it ran continuously on the high 1500w setting for about 3 days before it got my garage up to 70F. Once there, however, it cycles on and off quite a bit, so if you got a lot of junk in there, especially junk with high mass, it helps maintain the temp and the cost of running the heater goes down.
It's not a good solution though, at least for me, because I'm having to avoid opening the garage door, and although the heater works really well once it got the room and all the mass heated up, it just can't be an efficient solution. I don't have an electric bill since I started using it, but I'm sure it's gonna be up, especially with the initial 3 days.
In any case, if these LED's grow some nice bud, they're gonna be awesome in the summer.
Well, my experience with using the 1500w space heater has been interesting, at least for me, because I've never kept one on long enough for them to really work semi-efficiently.
I'm using a ceramic radiant heater about the same size as those oil-filled radiator ones, and it ran continuously on the high 1500w setting for about 3 days before it got my garage up to 70F. Once there, however, it cycles on and off quite a bit, so if you got a lot of junk in there, especially junk with high mass, it helps maintain the temp and the cost of running the heater goes down.
It's not a good solution though, at least for me, because I'm having to avoid opening the garage door, and although the heater works really well once it got the room and all the mass heated up, it just can't be an efficient solution. I don't have an electric bill since I started using it, but I'm sure it's gonna be up, especially with the initial 3 days.
In any case, if these LED's grow some nice bud, they're gonna be awesome in the summer
.
Scooby_Snacks
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
I've seen a few LED grows that had issues due to the cold temps and lack of heat the LED's throw off. Plant growth was stunted. I'm thinking one of them added cfl's just to increase the temps.
I've seen a few LED grows that had issues due to the cold temps and lack of heat the LED's throw off. Plant growth was stunted. I'm thinking one of them added cfl's just to increase the temps.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
I could not agree more!
In this comparison, of course, I don't have that option, but in my last grow I used two 42w CFL's for side-lighting with my 250w HID, and not only did they add lots of light, but 3-4 degrees more heat.
That really helps with lights-on, and in combination with running my lights at night, is what works so I can grow all year-round. If I ran a 400w HID, my temps would be fine without CFL's.
The combination of LED and CFL may grow very well, who knows?
thanks Scooby!
I could not agree more!
In this comparison, of course, I don't have that option, but in my last grow I used two 42w CFL's for side-lighting with my 250w HID, and not only did they add lots of light, but 3-4 degrees more heat.
That really helps with lights-on, and in combination with running my lights at night, is what works so I can grow all year-round. If I ran a 400w HID, my temps would be fine without CFL's.
The combination of LED and CFL may grow very well, who knows?
thanks Scooby!
WarBux79
Well-Known Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
With LEDs you really need to put the plants in as little of a space as possible if you need the heat they produce. Using LEDs in a micro grow is where its at IMO. I have 252w in a small 16 cubic foot tent and lemme tell you the heat is there. That tent stays in the 90s even if the rooms ambient temps get down into the 50s. With 1 light the tent would stay at 78-83 with ambient temps in the 50s. I don't need to vent the tent because of the Co2 but I ran some tests with a small 86 cfm fan to see where the temps would be constantly recycling the air and I was surprised to see the temps stay in the 80s.
Adding CFL's might help with any spectrum issues too!
Well, my experience with using the 1500w space heater has been interesting, at least for me, because I've never kept one on long enough for them to really work semi-efficiently.
I'm using a ceramic radiant heater about the same size as those oil-filled radiator ones, and it ran continuously on the high 1500w setting for about 3 days before it got my garage up to 70F. Once there, however, it cycles on and off quite a bit, so if you got a lot of junk in there, especially junk with high mass, it helps maintain the temp and the cost of running the heater goes down.
It's not a good solution though, at least for me, because I'm having to avoid opening the garage door, and although the heater works really well once it got the room and all the mass heated up, it just can't be an efficient solution. I don't have an electric bill since I started using it, but I'm sure it's gonna be up, especially with the initial 3 days.
In any case, if these LED's grow some nice bud, they're gonna be awesome in the summer
With LEDs you really need to put the plants in as little of a space as possible if you need the heat they produce. Using LEDs in a micro grow is where its at IMO. I have 252w in a small 16 cubic foot tent and lemme tell you the heat is there. That tent stays in the 90s even if the rooms ambient temps get down into the 50s. With 1 light the tent would stay at 78-83 with ambient temps in the 50s. I don't need to vent the tent because of the Co2 but I ran some tests with a small 86 cfm fan to see where the temps would be constantly recycling the air and I was surprised to see the temps stay in the 80s.
Adding CFL's might help with any spectrum issues too!
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Good point.
Good point.
The Lurker
New Member
Re: Hosted Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
Thanks all!
Glad you got something out of it and happy to share. Our opinions will naturally evolve as the technology and experimental evidence from growing does. Once I'm back in town next year and properly settled, I hope to add to this with some real world info myself...
The .xls file in my reference post with the original calcs got removed shortly after by mgmt due to security issues; if anyone wants a copy, PM me and I'll find a way to get it to you. At least the pics are still up.
I hear that, SS. I have to think there's got to be a better way to get your temps up without heating an unconditioned non-living space (or moving your grow inside - not an option, I know) with so many additional watts. Any air exchange with the cooler garage air will bring the tent temps down, but perhaps some sort of heating mat, soil heating cable, etc. such as these would help:
Plant Heating Mats and Cables
Lectro-Kennel Heating Pads for Pets
I'd even consider an electric blanket if not for the water hazard, though they're technically sealed fairly well (though you could drape it over the tent also to heat from the outside, I suppose, though that's probably not very efficient. Better to heat from the bottom up from the inside. How well does heat conduct through those tents, anyway?)...
Perhaps wrapping the outside of the tents in some sort of insulation (R13? Thermal (space-age/mylar) camping blankets?), and keep the plant base heated 24/7 (during lights out, too) would work.
It may be easier to heat a hydro/DWC base (to a constantly maintained ~70F or so) since water acts like a heat sink for any temperature changes, but wrapping the sides/bottom of the pots with some of the above may help. And slowing the ventilation to a crawl during lights out would help maximize a small heating source during those periods...
Or go 1/2 and 1/2 - heat the plant base continuously, and run the space heater in the garage at a lower temp (i.e. fewer on/off cycles) - might reduce some of the watts you're using just for heat.
Once you take that issue (i.e. having to vent the heat produced by HIDs away from the garden in order to maintain proper temperatures) out of the equation, one can likely get away with using much lower CFM requirements (for transpiration and CO2 replacement/air exchange alone) for much of the grow.
You know, maybe having an IR-only LED supplemental source that one could run 24/7 for cooler weather gardens might be a good idea, come to think of it...what say you, kemosabe?
Regards,
-TL
Glad I didn't smoke before trying to read Lurkers post.........
.... loved the info, thanks for sharing that man, but I now need a
Thanks all!
Glad you got something out of it and happy to share. Our opinions will naturally evolve as the technology and experimental evidence from growing does. Once I'm back in town next year and properly settled, I hope to add to this with some real world info myself...The .xls file in my reference post with the original calcs got removed shortly after by mgmt due to security issues; if anyone wants a copy, PM me and I'll find a way to get it to you. At least the pics are still up.
I hear that, SS. I have to think there's got to be a better way to get your temps up without heating an unconditioned non-living space (or moving your grow inside - not an option, I know) with so many additional watts. Any air exchange with the cooler garage air will bring the tent temps down, but perhaps some sort of heating mat, soil heating cable, etc. such as these would help:
Plant Heating Mats and Cables
Lectro-Kennel Heating Pads for Pets
I'd even consider an electric blanket if not for the water hazard, though they're technically sealed fairly well (though you could drape it over the tent also to heat from the outside, I suppose, though that's probably not very efficient. Better to heat from the bottom up from the inside. How well does heat conduct through those tents, anyway?)...
Perhaps wrapping the outside of the tents in some sort of insulation (R13? Thermal (space-age/mylar) camping blankets?), and keep the plant base heated 24/7 (during lights out, too) would work.
It may be easier to heat a hydro/DWC base (to a constantly maintained ~70F or so) since water acts like a heat sink for any temperature changes, but wrapping the sides/bottom of the pots with some of the above may help. And slowing the ventilation to a crawl during lights out would help maximize a small heating source during those periods...
Or go 1/2 and 1/2 - heat the plant base continuously, and run the space heater in the garage at a lower temp (i.e. fewer on/off cycles) - might reduce some of the watts you're using just for heat.
Once you take that issue (i.e. having to vent the heat produced by HIDs away from the garden in order to maintain proper temperatures) out of the equation, one can likely get away with using much lower CFM requirements (for transpiration and CO2 replacement/air exchange alone) for much of the grow.
You know, maybe having an IR-only LED supplemental source that one could run 24/7 for cooler weather gardens might be a good idea, come to think of it...what say you, kemosabe?
Regards,
-TL
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
The addition of daylight, soft-white, or a combination of both types of CFL's also allows tuning of the spectrum.
On my last grow, at mid-bloom, I started out by adding a 65w bright white CFL security light, and I noticed that it produced a lot of vegetative growth but didn't do much for the buds. My plants benefited from the vegetative growth because they had lost a lot of foliage when I left them outdoors during a heat wave and got burned.
Once they had regained some leaves, I switched to the two 42w soft-white spiral CFL's, and finished them with those for side-lighting.
It's nice to be able to tune the spectrum easily and inexpensively with CFL's.
I'm planning on using some type of side-lighting in all of my grows unless it would throw off whatever I'm comparing. It can't help but benefit the overall spectrum, adds lumens, and can also add extra heat if necessary.
On a related note, my garage is now up to 72F, and the tents are running at around 76F. The baby kushies are doing great!
will update with pics tonite.
The addition of daylight, soft-white, or a combination of both types of CFL's also allows tuning of the spectrum.
On my last grow, at mid-bloom, I started out by adding a 65w bright white CFL security light, and I noticed that it produced a lot of vegetative growth but didn't do much for the buds. My plants benefited from the vegetative growth because they had lost a lot of foliage when I left them outdoors during a heat wave and got burned.
Once they had regained some leaves, I switched to the two 42w soft-white spiral CFL's, and finished them with those for side-lighting.
It's nice to be able to tune the spectrum easily and inexpensively with CFL's.
I'm planning on using some type of side-lighting in all of my grows unless it would throw off whatever I'm comparing. It can't help but benefit the overall spectrum, adds lumens, and can also add extra heat if necessary.
On a related note, my garage is now up to 72F, and the tents are running at around 76F. The baby kushies are doing great!
will update with pics tonite.