Could you lst with any material you already have? Might be easier than scrogging with the same results.
Guerrilla Comes In From The Cold! - First Indoor Grow
- Thread starter Onamatopeia
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- #22
Onamatopeia
New Member
So much drama in a first grow! I'll start with ventilation.
Got my 4" inline fan and 6" clip fan. The 4" fan is so light that for now I just duct taped it to the vent.
Finally got a timer and hooked it up to the lights. Till now the closet door has never been closed. Before putting the plants into their first darkness I closet the closet door, with the fan pulling air out of the tent and into the closet. An hour later (it was nighttime so no sun) temps had gone up 10 degrees in the closet. So venting into the closet is not looking viable. I will have to vent outside the closet somehow.
Plants over the last two days seem to have recovered from the shock of moving into a closet and all have shown some growth past the initial upshoot and spreading of baby leaves. A couple I planted over sprouted and I will have to reposition a few.
If my pics get uploaded, you will see my 6, 5-gallon buckets with a couple babies in each. I plan to move these and turn them as convenient to get even growth through the entire space.
Thanks for the ideas, Chef! Absolutely thinking LST might be an easier play. Will have to wait and see how my babies grow in the coming weeks. On the one hand, my instincts say just do a very simple grow, put 'em into 12/12 as soon as feasible, just get a successful harvest under my belt because I will learn so much and be so better prepared for the high intensity gardening that is possible.
On the other hand, I have been reading about SCROGging and other indoor techniques for years. I have watched time and time again as the inexperienced passed on my outdoor buds because they were not as dense and showy as the indoor buds. I always have a mission to be the best, and I am dying to put up a mind-blowing first harvest. So I want to try all these advanced things I have only read about. Of course, such hubris and ambition often leads to overreach which then backfires and maybe blows up the whole harvest!
And with my now six mother plants represented, none of which I have ever grown indoors, I may have such a mixed bag of plants that the challenges of SCROGging such different sisters may be too much for a noob. PLUS all the entanglements that will come when I sex my plants and have to take half of them out and possibly ruin the canopy.
Guys and gals I am so sorry, I took some pics but when I click the little photo icon it just tells me no pics are uploaded and no way to upload. As soon as I figure it out you will see:
My tent, inside a closet, behind a steam pole in the front of the closet. A very claustrophobic setup!
My tent floor with just the buckets
My two suspended lights
My hilarious duct-taped exhaust fan, which I know must change before I stick the carbon filter on.
BTW, I see absolutely no reason to install the carbon filter until the plants start smelling! My understanding is that they don't last that long, so why waste it?
Got my 4" inline fan and 6" clip fan. The 4" fan is so light that for now I just duct taped it to the vent.
Finally got a timer and hooked it up to the lights. Till now the closet door has never been closed. Before putting the plants into their first darkness I closet the closet door, with the fan pulling air out of the tent and into the closet. An hour later (it was nighttime so no sun) temps had gone up 10 degrees in the closet. So venting into the closet is not looking viable. I will have to vent outside the closet somehow.
Plants over the last two days seem to have recovered from the shock of moving into a closet and all have shown some growth past the initial upshoot and spreading of baby leaves. A couple I planted over sprouted and I will have to reposition a few.
If my pics get uploaded, you will see my 6, 5-gallon buckets with a couple babies in each. I plan to move these and turn them as convenient to get even growth through the entire space.
Thanks for the ideas, Chef! Absolutely thinking LST might be an easier play. Will have to wait and see how my babies grow in the coming weeks. On the one hand, my instincts say just do a very simple grow, put 'em into 12/12 as soon as feasible, just get a successful harvest under my belt because I will learn so much and be so better prepared for the high intensity gardening that is possible.
On the other hand, I have been reading about SCROGging and other indoor techniques for years. I have watched time and time again as the inexperienced passed on my outdoor buds because they were not as dense and showy as the indoor buds. I always have a mission to be the best, and I am dying to put up a mind-blowing first harvest. So I want to try all these advanced things I have only read about. Of course, such hubris and ambition often leads to overreach which then backfires and maybe blows up the whole harvest!
And with my now six mother plants represented, none of which I have ever grown indoors, I may have such a mixed bag of plants that the challenges of SCROGging such different sisters may be too much for a noob. PLUS all the entanglements that will come when I sex my plants and have to take half of them out and possibly ruin the canopy.
Guys and gals I am so sorry, I took some pics but when I click the little photo icon it just tells me no pics are uploaded and no way to upload. As soon as I figure it out you will see:
My tent, inside a closet, behind a steam pole in the front of the closet. A very claustrophobic setup!
My tent floor with just the buckets
My two suspended lights
My hilarious duct-taped exhaust fan, which I know must change before I stick the carbon filter on.
BTW, I see absolutely no reason to install the carbon filter until the plants start smelling! My understanding is that they don't last that long, so why waste it?
- Thread starter
- #23
Onamatopeia
New Member
For those reading, I want to start putting out lessons as I learn them, that may cause a laugh in the experienced and genuinely help the inexperienced. Also, when I use an outdoor technique inside that I have not read about being used inside, I will mention those as they come up.
Lesson one: You can't skimp on your lighting. In the outdoors, if a plant cannot get enough light it is just listless, hardly grows, and is an easy victim to other problems. Cannabis may be the BEST in the millions of species of plants at converting light into growth. It has been documented that a plant from seed in one season can grow to over 30 feet high by the fall. We have to respect those awesome light-converting abilities, or else our plant will be listless.
Lesson two: It is very easy, indoors, to fuck with your plants too much. Guerrilla style you can only see them at best once a week. You do what you can, then let nature take its course. Indoors, I find myself doing something to the plants or setup, then going back an hour later to inspect the plants. It is much too easy to be in there all the time. Outdoors, you learn to create good conditions and then get out of the way so the plant can grow for you. Especially for noobs, a good rule is to not fuck with anything unless it is clearly not working. Otherwise, trust the advice of those who came before you and let Mother Nature do some work.
Outdoor technique one: Maybe this will be the only one I use in this grow, I don't know. But one way to strengthen you plants AND help limit their height is to dig around the baby plant until you can slide it further into the soil. You can bury the first set of baby leaves and all that stalk. This not only makes you plant shorter, everything you bury becomes part of the root system and quickly strengthens your plant. If there are a couple inches of stem before your first set of leaves, bury that stem!
Lesson one: You can't skimp on your lighting. In the outdoors, if a plant cannot get enough light it is just listless, hardly grows, and is an easy victim to other problems. Cannabis may be the BEST in the millions of species of plants at converting light into growth. It has been documented that a plant from seed in one season can grow to over 30 feet high by the fall. We have to respect those awesome light-converting abilities, or else our plant will be listless.
Lesson two: It is very easy, indoors, to fuck with your plants too much. Guerrilla style you can only see them at best once a week. You do what you can, then let nature take its course. Indoors, I find myself doing something to the plants or setup, then going back an hour later to inspect the plants. It is much too easy to be in there all the time. Outdoors, you learn to create good conditions and then get out of the way so the plant can grow for you. Especially for noobs, a good rule is to not fuck with anything unless it is clearly not working. Otherwise, trust the advice of those who came before you and let Mother Nature do some work.
Outdoor technique one: Maybe this will be the only one I use in this grow, I don't know. But one way to strengthen you plants AND help limit their height is to dig around the baby plant until you can slide it further into the soil. You can bury the first set of baby leaves and all that stalk. This not only makes you plant shorter, everything you bury becomes part of the root system and quickly strengthens your plant. If there are a couple inches of stem before your first set of leaves, bury that stem!
Ive heard of burying small plants.. Ive heard of burying plants that have five or six nodes about half way deep.. It makes a few quasi-independent plants that are all capable of gathering nutrients.. But are still connected. Anyhow, sounds like things are coming along nicely.. Cant wait to see those photos. My understanding is that with LST you can even out your canopy like with scrog.. But you dont have to deal with that screen getting in your way when you need to defol, clone, or cull males.. You have wires from each plant attached to the pot theyre in.. Just take the plant out of the tent, remove the wires.. And cull the poor bastard, simple as that..
And you can LST as much or as little as you want.. How you were saying you have a few different strains going on.. You can train the tall gals earlier on and keep everything even.. Much easier than trying to somehow setup separate screens for each inside one tent.. Then having to adjust each one as they grow at different speeds... That sounds like a huge pain.. Just bend over the tall fuckers as they take off... Not too much work, keep everything even.. And virtually no way to fuck your grow up.. As long as you're gentle and do every bend gradually over a couple days
And you can LST as much or as little as you want.. How you were saying you have a few different strains going on.. You can train the tall gals earlier on and keep everything even.. Much easier than trying to somehow setup separate screens for each inside one tent.. Then having to adjust each one as they grow at different speeds... That sounds like a huge pain.. Just bend over the tall fuckers as they take off... Not too much work, keep everything even.. And virtually no way to fuck your grow up.. As long as you're gentle and do every bend gradually over a couple days
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- #25
Onamatopeia
New Member
Still haven't figured out the pics yet. Not much to show at this point.
At about 10 days from putting them into soil about half are growing well, a quarter I think are going to be okay, and four or five have a stunted growth, especially at the dicotydelon node, I don't remember ever seeing. I have a couple baby seedlings ready to sub in if these crap out, but if I end up with less than 18 I won't care too much.
Internode spacing is so ridiculously tight! Makes me feel I have enough light on them cos they are tighter than I have ever seen outdoors.
Here are some of my recent lessons. The first two may seem to contradict each other. But they don't!
Lesson three: LEDs, at least mine, put out SIGNIFICANT heat. The idea that they are heatless is a myth! My tent has never been closed yet, always open to the closet, but if I shut the closet door the temps in the whole closet go up 10 degrees. That's from 2 - 300W LED lights. So any noobs who think LEDs means no heat at all will find this is wrong.
But, it is even less of a complication than many of us know. Because in addition to running cooler than HID lights, in addition to needing less electricity to run the lights, less electricity to run fans and air conditioners, LEDs have another heat-related benefit I have only just discovered:
Lesson four: Plants under LED prefer to run temps of at least 5 and up to 9 degrees warmer than plants under any other kind of light. Because the LED only sends the plant usable light, much less wasted light arrives at the plant. This means less HEAT generated by the light on the surface of the plant itself. This means a lot for LST.
LST in this case is Leaf Surface Temperature. With a room at 75 degrees, the surface of the leaves is actually 5-10 degrees warmer on an HPS-lit plant, CFL-lit plant, etc, while being 5-10 degrees cooler on the LED plant. THAT means to have the same effective metabolic temperature, your LED grow should be up to 9 degrees warmer than any other kind of grow!
THAT means less worry for me keeping my grow room cool. That means the heat of summer may not be as devastating as I first worried!
Outdoor tip number two: The easy way is the loser's way. This really applies to any endeavor, in growing or in life. But I find it especially true on a long, complicated, solitary journey with a goal at the end like this. You need a lot of self-discipline to do this and do it right, especially when our quasi-legal status means secrecy is needed. There are so many steps, so many times I am tempted to find a shortcut. Knowing which shortcuts endanger our larger goals is very tough, especially when you are tired or distracted. So the rule of this grow is no shortcuts unless I have really thought them through!
At about 10 days from putting them into soil about half are growing well, a quarter I think are going to be okay, and four or five have a stunted growth, especially at the dicotydelon node, I don't remember ever seeing. I have a couple baby seedlings ready to sub in if these crap out, but if I end up with less than 18 I won't care too much.
Internode spacing is so ridiculously tight! Makes me feel I have enough light on them cos they are tighter than I have ever seen outdoors.
Here are some of my recent lessons. The first two may seem to contradict each other. But they don't!
Lesson three: LEDs, at least mine, put out SIGNIFICANT heat. The idea that they are heatless is a myth! My tent has never been closed yet, always open to the closet, but if I shut the closet door the temps in the whole closet go up 10 degrees. That's from 2 - 300W LED lights. So any noobs who think LEDs means no heat at all will find this is wrong.
But, it is even less of a complication than many of us know. Because in addition to running cooler than HID lights, in addition to needing less electricity to run the lights, less electricity to run fans and air conditioners, LEDs have another heat-related benefit I have only just discovered:
Lesson four: Plants under LED prefer to run temps of at least 5 and up to 9 degrees warmer than plants under any other kind of light. Because the LED only sends the plant usable light, much less wasted light arrives at the plant. This means less HEAT generated by the light on the surface of the plant itself. This means a lot for LST.
LST in this case is Leaf Surface Temperature. With a room at 75 degrees, the surface of the leaves is actually 5-10 degrees warmer on an HPS-lit plant, CFL-lit plant, etc, while being 5-10 degrees cooler on the LED plant. THAT means to have the same effective metabolic temperature, your LED grow should be up to 9 degrees warmer than any other kind of grow!
THAT means less worry for me keeping my grow room cool. That means the heat of summer may not be as devastating as I first worried!
Outdoor tip number two: The easy way is the loser's way. This really applies to any endeavor, in growing or in life. But I find it especially true on a long, complicated, solitary journey with a goal at the end like this. You need a lot of self-discipline to do this and do it right, especially when our quasi-legal status means secrecy is needed. There are so many steps, so many times I am tempted to find a shortcut. Knowing which shortcuts endanger our larger goals is very tough, especially when you are tired or distracted. So the rule of this grow is no shortcuts unless I have really thought them through!
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- #26
Onamatopeia
New Member
Another lesson, one I had to relearn: It is not the easiest planting seeds right into 5 gallon buckets. Mostly because of moisture control. Better to start in something small and transplant when they are stronger.
But I didn't want to use any of my outdoor stuff indoors, and I didn't want to buy 18 small plant pots only to throw them away (future grows I expect to start with a lot less plants). So I just went straight into the big buckets, and watering them has been kinda tricky ever since.
I am thinking of at the very least topping the plants. Still not sure if I am up to try SCROG or mainlining this grow.
Outside, I am definitely planning to "mainline" at least one plant and see how she responds!
But I didn't want to use any of my outdoor stuff indoors, and I didn't want to buy 18 small plant pots only to throw them away (future grows I expect to start with a lot less plants). So I just went straight into the big buckets, and watering them has been kinda tricky ever since.
I am thinking of at the very least topping the plants. Still not sure if I am up to try SCROG or mainlining this grow.
Outside, I am definitely planning to "mainline" at least one plant and see how she responds!
- Thread starter
- #27
Onamatopeia
New Member
I figured out the pics!
Okay, I uploaded them into the gallery. Site still doesn't see them in my folder.
Things coming along well. More than half my plants are now growing their fifth node (if you count the cotyledon and dicot). When they all get up to five I think I'm gonna top them.
Not sure how simple this grow will be. I figure I need to fill up the canopy and also want to flip 'em ASAP.
What is the minimum people veg from seeds? Outside I wouldn't count on anything being ready to flip until it was 2 months old. Saw some threads where people flip 'em at 4 weeks.
If I have enough growth at 4 weeks I will flip 'em then. But I figure any which way I do it I probably want to top and get the experience training them.
A plan is forming in my head. This grow will be simple and as described.
Next grow, I think I will keep it in soil but attempt a SCROG. What do people think of Fox Farms Ocean Forest Soil mixed with 25% perlite? That seems like a safe, easy formula that would be a definite improvement on stupid Miracle Grow (even though I love Miracle Grow I know it is far from the best!).
Two grows away, assuming the SCROG is successful, I figure I will either SCROG or mainline. For a medium if I am up to it I want to do a DWC, which seems like the easiest hydroponics.
But I figure no hydroponics until I have two successful soil grows and a successful SCROG grow!
Okay, I uploaded them into the gallery. Site still doesn't see them in my folder.
Things coming along well. More than half my plants are now growing their fifth node (if you count the cotyledon and dicot). When they all get up to five I think I'm gonna top them.
Not sure how simple this grow will be. I figure I need to fill up the canopy and also want to flip 'em ASAP.
What is the minimum people veg from seeds? Outside I wouldn't count on anything being ready to flip until it was 2 months old. Saw some threads where people flip 'em at 4 weeks.
If I have enough growth at 4 weeks I will flip 'em then. But I figure any which way I do it I probably want to top and get the experience training them.
A plan is forming in my head. This grow will be simple and as described.
Next grow, I think I will keep it in soil but attempt a SCROG. What do people think of Fox Farms Ocean Forest Soil mixed with 25% perlite? That seems like a safe, easy formula that would be a definite improvement on stupid Miracle Grow (even though I love Miracle Grow I know it is far from the best!).
Two grows away, assuming the SCROG is successful, I figure I will either SCROG or mainline. For a medium if I am up to it I want to do a DWC, which seems like the easiest hydroponics.
But I figure no hydroponics until I have two successful soil grows and a successful SCROG grow!
- Thread starter
- #28
Onamatopeia
New Member
I think this is Day 13 and I wish I had the pics thing figured.
Most of them are at least 4 inches across, working on their 5 th node. One is 9 inches across.
I realized I had made the most common mistake of all and they were drowning in water. Haven't watered in 4 days and ever day they look perkier.
To anyone contemplating a similar setup, my 2 X (3 X 100) LEDs I am convinced are enough light for my tent, at least for veg. The internode spacing so far is so small it is insane!
I figured that my LEDs together are about 300 actual Watts of their stated 600. So in 8 square feet the light is 75/37.5 Watts/ft2. From what I have read that is at least adequate, and the growth I am seeing looks extremely strong.
Can't wait to flower and add that "all red" LED.
Another thought I am realizing about the footprint I am running. I was scared to go smaller than the 4 X 2 tent because I was unsure. Now that everything is cranking, though, I see that once I get good- not my first run but definitely by the third run- I think I will be able to grow way more than I can use. And I medicate pretty heavily! An ounce a month would be enough for most. This thing, once it gets cranking, should be able to do at least three times that.
So I personally think that for a personal grow for one this is as large, and probably larger, than anyone should ever need.
Most of them are at least 4 inches across, working on their 5 th node. One is 9 inches across.
I realized I had made the most common mistake of all and they were drowning in water. Haven't watered in 4 days and ever day they look perkier.
To anyone contemplating a similar setup, my 2 X (3 X 100) LEDs I am convinced are enough light for my tent, at least for veg. The internode spacing so far is so small it is insane!
I figured that my LEDs together are about 300 actual Watts of their stated 600. So in 8 square feet the light is 75/37.5 Watts/ft2. From what I have read that is at least adequate, and the growth I am seeing looks extremely strong.
Can't wait to flower and add that "all red" LED.
Another thought I am realizing about the footprint I am running. I was scared to go smaller than the 4 X 2 tent because I was unsure. Now that everything is cranking, though, I see that once I get good- not my first run but definitely by the third run- I think I will be able to grow way more than I can use. And I medicate pretty heavily! An ounce a month would be enough for most. This thing, once it gets cranking, should be able to do at least three times that.
So I personally think that for a personal grow for one this is as large, and probably larger, than anyone should ever need.
- Thread starter
- #29
Onamatopeia
New Member
Routine update. Half my plants are producing their sixth node. All those plants I just topped.
Can't remember if you are supposed to avoid scissors during topping. Pinched 'em with my fingers just to be safe. Amazed how quickly they are recovering, they really are doing everything faster than the outdoor equivalents.
Honestly, I am amazed at how well the plants are doing, especially considering how little I have spent dollar-wise. I know they make $1000 dollar LEDs, but if I can come close to their results with $100 LEDs I will be very happy.
Finally watered the plants after 5 days no water. Bumping up the concentration of plant food. I am generally very conservative with the plant food. Generally speaking, outdoor cannabis is a heavy feeder and can handle a lot of nutes. But I rarely push it.
The miracle grow generic plant food recommends 7-10 drops per quart, or 28-40 per gallon. Last feeding I did 8 drops in a gallon, yesterday's feeding they got 14. This plant food has never burned my plants in the past so I may eventually go all the way up to 40.
A note on flushing. My experience is you need at least two weeks of nutrient free feeding to rid your buds of that horrible chemical taste and black ash of nutes in your bud. Given how I don't see aggressive flushing being practical in my grow I suspect I will cut off the food even sooner. It always makes me sad, because the nutes help so much in later flowering. but you end up with giant, bad-tasting buds.
A note on lighting. My two, 100 X 3 W LEDs haven't moved yet. They started maybe 22 inches above the soil and now the plants have grown in and they are maybe 15 inches above. So far the plants seem to love the proximity. I may let them get to 12 inches before I move them, just to see if they suffer any ill effects. If not, then a closer light will definitely send a lot more power to the plants.
Again, I am amazed that my plants are growing this fast. I don't have control over my temps, my soil is cheap and too dense, my lights are el cheapos, and my ventilation is basically nonexistent. Yet these things are cranking!
Can't remember if you are supposed to avoid scissors during topping. Pinched 'em with my fingers just to be safe. Amazed how quickly they are recovering, they really are doing everything faster than the outdoor equivalents.
Honestly, I am amazed at how well the plants are doing, especially considering how little I have spent dollar-wise. I know they make $1000 dollar LEDs, but if I can come close to their results with $100 LEDs I will be very happy.
Finally watered the plants after 5 days no water. Bumping up the concentration of plant food. I am generally very conservative with the plant food. Generally speaking, outdoor cannabis is a heavy feeder and can handle a lot of nutes. But I rarely push it.
The miracle grow generic plant food recommends 7-10 drops per quart, or 28-40 per gallon. Last feeding I did 8 drops in a gallon, yesterday's feeding they got 14. This plant food has never burned my plants in the past so I may eventually go all the way up to 40.
A note on flushing. My experience is you need at least two weeks of nutrient free feeding to rid your buds of that horrible chemical taste and black ash of nutes in your bud. Given how I don't see aggressive flushing being practical in my grow I suspect I will cut off the food even sooner. It always makes me sad, because the nutes help so much in later flowering. but you end up with giant, bad-tasting buds.
A note on lighting. My two, 100 X 3 W LEDs haven't moved yet. They started maybe 22 inches above the soil and now the plants have grown in and they are maybe 15 inches above. So far the plants seem to love the proximity. I may let them get to 12 inches before I move them, just to see if they suffer any ill effects. If not, then a closer light will definitely send a lot more power to the plants.
Again, I am amazed that my plants are growing this fast. I don't have control over my temps, my soil is cheap and too dense, my lights are el cheapos, and my ventilation is basically nonexistent. Yet these things are cranking!
Sounds like you've got all your ducks in a row! Congrats!
Giving your hands a wash and pinching the tops off, is the best method in my opinion.
Keep it up bud!
Giving your hands a wash and pinching the tops off, is the best method in my opinion.
Keep it up bud!
Yeah that sounds like things are progressing very well. Wish i could see pics
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- #32
Onamatopeia
New Member
Thanks so much for the support everybody. My motto is, no complete disasters. No complete fuckups. If I can do that, mother nature and common sense should get me somewhere.
I am going to take a couple pics right now! When I get it set, I promise to post them. They are actually starting to fill up the space, only two and half weeks from touching the soil!
Did something impulsive today. Topped all my plants except the two stunted growers. After reading about something called "Uncle Ben's topping technique", and thinking about mainlining, I pinched 'em all down to two or three nodes. I figure there will be four or six branches per plant and that's it. But since I am flipping the lights ASAP this way they will spread to cover my area while still short.
I am paranoid about outgrowing my space. The whole tent is 60 inches. The containers are about 8 inches high. The light cables plus the light are actually a foot tall on one light. Plus I figure I need 12 inches minimum space between the light and plants at the end of my grow. That's 32 inches of space the plants can't use, plus about two inches for the light hanger setup, which limits the tallest one to 26 inches.
I took my hanger system apart and rejigged it. Before, each wire went from the caribiner to an attachment point. Now, each wire now goes from one lamp attachment point, winds around the carabinier, and connects a second attachment point. This got me about four more vertical inches. So maybe my tallest plant can get 30 inches tall.
And as I mentioned in the beginning of this post, over the years my genetics changed. Many of my earliest grows were very indica-heavy, but over time those plants didn't do as well and my stuff I think is mostly sativa-dominant crosses. I keep reading how much those girls like to stretch, and I will be ready for them!
For a novice I feel pretty comfortable about aggressively training my plants. I think that will be key. Right now they are all within about 3 inches height of each other, and in the coming weeks as they fill out it will be fun to spread the big ones out and down.
Growing heterosex plants of varying unknown strains means I will have a really interesting game of Tetris in about a month. Six buckets with three plants each, some buckets with just one female and maybe some with three! Chop down the boys, figure out how to reconfigure the buckets and train the emerging girls into an efficient pattern.
I am not sure but two of my plants may be showing signs of light burn. There is no discoloration, but one has had unusual growth patterns and a never-before-seen coarsening of the leaf structure. I didn't suspect it was light burn at first, but this plant is in the very corner up against two different reflecting walls and I think maybe it got more light.
Plus of course some of these varieties will take to indoors better than others. These have been bred by me over about ten generations for outdoor characteristics like mold resistance and cold tolerance. Anybody's guess which ones will like living in a closet!
But I am already planning my next grow. FFOF soil mixed with perlite and just a dash of water crystals. My three best plants from this grow I hope to clone and grow out. I figure this harvest comes in mid or late August, and hopefully in that second round I can grow my three new babies in time for Christmas presents! Also in that second harvest, if I think I am up to it, I will SCROG that mf.
The grow after that, I would hope to use new clones of the same plants plus maybe, if I have a successful outdoor season, clone my favorite outdoor baby and see if I can grow her inside. And maybe maybe with that one I will try to go hydroponic!
Ah those sweet green dreams as I stare inside my grow tent and the minutes roll by...
I am going to take a couple pics right now! When I get it set, I promise to post them. They are actually starting to fill up the space, only two and half weeks from touching the soil!
Did something impulsive today. Topped all my plants except the two stunted growers. After reading about something called "Uncle Ben's topping technique", and thinking about mainlining, I pinched 'em all down to two or three nodes. I figure there will be four or six branches per plant and that's it. But since I am flipping the lights ASAP this way they will spread to cover my area while still short.
I am paranoid about outgrowing my space. The whole tent is 60 inches. The containers are about 8 inches high. The light cables plus the light are actually a foot tall on one light. Plus I figure I need 12 inches minimum space between the light and plants at the end of my grow. That's 32 inches of space the plants can't use, plus about two inches for the light hanger setup, which limits the tallest one to 26 inches.
I took my hanger system apart and rejigged it. Before, each wire went from the caribiner to an attachment point. Now, each wire now goes from one lamp attachment point, winds around the carabinier, and connects a second attachment point. This got me about four more vertical inches. So maybe my tallest plant can get 30 inches tall.
And as I mentioned in the beginning of this post, over the years my genetics changed. Many of my earliest grows were very indica-heavy, but over time those plants didn't do as well and my stuff I think is mostly sativa-dominant crosses. I keep reading how much those girls like to stretch, and I will be ready for them!
For a novice I feel pretty comfortable about aggressively training my plants. I think that will be key. Right now they are all within about 3 inches height of each other, and in the coming weeks as they fill out it will be fun to spread the big ones out and down.
Growing heterosex plants of varying unknown strains means I will have a really interesting game of Tetris in about a month. Six buckets with three plants each, some buckets with just one female and maybe some with three! Chop down the boys, figure out how to reconfigure the buckets and train the emerging girls into an efficient pattern.
I am not sure but two of my plants may be showing signs of light burn. There is no discoloration, but one has had unusual growth patterns and a never-before-seen coarsening of the leaf structure. I didn't suspect it was light burn at first, but this plant is in the very corner up against two different reflecting walls and I think maybe it got more light.
Plus of course some of these varieties will take to indoors better than others. These have been bred by me over about ten generations for outdoor characteristics like mold resistance and cold tolerance. Anybody's guess which ones will like living in a closet!
But I am already planning my next grow. FFOF soil mixed with perlite and just a dash of water crystals. My three best plants from this grow I hope to clone and grow out. I figure this harvest comes in mid or late August, and hopefully in that second round I can grow my three new babies in time for Christmas presents! Also in that second harvest, if I think I am up to it, I will SCROG that mf.
The grow after that, I would hope to use new clones of the same plants plus maybe, if I have a successful outdoor season, clone my favorite outdoor baby and see if I can grow her inside. And maybe maybe with that one I will try to go hydroponic!
Ah those sweet green dreams as I stare inside my grow tent and the minutes roll by...
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- #33
Onamatopeia
New Member
I wanted to add two things:
One, when I flip the lights I think I can have the entire canopy under 12" tall. That is my plan, and I feel good that will be short enough.
Two, the more I think about it, why have the plant split higher up the stalk than necessary? I can see the reasons people wait til there are six nodes before topping to the third node, as you have more roots and a bigger stalk to recover with. But if you are going to top the plant, anything past the first available node is just wasted vertical space, right? So indoors especially I see topping them when they are LOW, in the first couple nodes.
One, when I flip the lights I think I can have the entire canopy under 12" tall. That is my plan, and I feel good that will be short enough.
Two, the more I think about it, why have the plant split higher up the stalk than necessary? I can see the reasons people wait til there are six nodes before topping to the third node, as you have more roots and a bigger stalk to recover with. But if you are going to top the plant, anything past the first available node is just wasted vertical space, right? So indoors especially I see topping them when they are LOW, in the first couple nodes.
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- #34
Onamatopeia
New Member
It is much too early for me to be this excited. But several of the plants have just kind of exploded since topping. One of them I can barely see the soil and none of the plants are more than about 4 inches tall. The internode spacing is like half an inch across the board.
Very interesting that several have done almost nothing visible since topping. My guess is that their genetics just make them respond heterogenuously to the stress. Partly, too, the recent toppings had a couple I could have waited to top, but didn't. So maybe as Uncle Ben says they really need 6 nodes worth of roots to recover with. The youngest one, which came in as a replacement and was only putting out it's third "true node", has been frozen, no visible side shoots or new growth.
I took my first clone today. Conditions are suboptimal, but the worst thing that happens is it dies, and I wasn't counting on it for anything.
But man o man these things are almost all really healthy and growing vigorously. This could become a really serious grow, with a serious yield!
Very interesting that several have done almost nothing visible since topping. My guess is that their genetics just make them respond heterogenuously to the stress. Partly, too, the recent toppings had a couple I could have waited to top, but didn't. So maybe as Uncle Ben says they really need 6 nodes worth of roots to recover with. The youngest one, which came in as a replacement and was only putting out it's third "true node", has been frozen, no visible side shoots or new growth.
I took my first clone today. Conditions are suboptimal, but the worst thing that happens is it dies, and I wasn't counting on it for anything.
But man o man these things are almost all really healthy and growing vigorously. This could become a really serious grow, with a serious yield!
- Thread starter
- #35
Onamatopeia
New Member
Not sure if it's the weather or my rapidly-growing plant mass, but the last few days have seen my humidity levels jump, they used to hover around 35 percent but lately they are pushing 60 percent.
Not many people seem to use a dehumidifier in a grow tent. But my problems with outdoor mold in my dense buds has me paranoid. When I go into flower if my humidities are above 50 I am going to get proactive.
As an outdoor grower it would KILL ME to have my favorite plants, my strongest smelling, earliest flowering, densest budded plants- almost all my purple strains were very indica, too- get killed by mold, to have them ravaged by something that in a day or two can turn the most beautiful 20 gram cola into a disgusting pile of shit.
My space has an AC but I am really thinking about a small dehumidifier, because I know for a fact that that horrible mold is all over the air around here, just waiting for a chance to kill those buds.
So over 50% RH in flowering- I think I am dehumidifying!
Waiting, probably one more day at least, before my growth shoots post topping are long enough to start training. My horizontal space is going to fill up very quickly I suspect within about two weeks.
Can't believe I am going to flip the lights on these babies next week! Soon I will start looking for pre flowers.
Considering they are doing everything faster than my outdoor babies do, maybe they WILL be ready to flower when I flip 'em. Can't wait to find out!
Not many people seem to use a dehumidifier in a grow tent. But my problems with outdoor mold in my dense buds has me paranoid. When I go into flower if my humidities are above 50 I am going to get proactive.
As an outdoor grower it would KILL ME to have my favorite plants, my strongest smelling, earliest flowering, densest budded plants- almost all my purple strains were very indica, too- get killed by mold, to have them ravaged by something that in a day or two can turn the most beautiful 20 gram cola into a disgusting pile of shit.
My space has an AC but I am really thinking about a small dehumidifier, because I know for a fact that that horrible mold is all over the air around here, just waiting for a chance to kill those buds.
So over 50% RH in flowering- I think I am dehumidifying!
Waiting, probably one more day at least, before my growth shoots post topping are long enough to start training. My horizontal space is going to fill up very quickly I suspect within about two weeks.
Can't believe I am going to flip the lights on these babies next week! Soon I will start looking for pre flowers.
Considering they are doing everything faster than my outdoor babies do, maybe they WILL be ready to flower when I flip 'em. Can't wait to find out!
Take piiiiiics.. Undergrow. Lol but sounds like everythting is coming along nicely.. Are you going to do any bending?
- Thread starter
- #37
Onamatopeia
New Member
Pics will be up eventually I promise! It keeps saying my file size is too big.
So funny you ask about training them. Since I topped 'em about a week ago, some have recovered much faster than others. I got scared to fully do Uncle Ben's technique, and I have a modified version of it that I really really like.
Uncle Ben's has you top the plant above the second true node, to get a four-cola plant. He also details that topping above the first node gives you a two-cola plant.
I was a little scared and not 100% which is the first true node. So I topped 'em all a node higher. Because of bushiness they are all responding with six branches, as I left and extra node intact. Internode spacing is so tight that several of the plants have the shoots off the second node higher than those off the top node. It may not work for all my plants, but most of them will have six viable colas on the same level. Especially now that I can train 'em.
In my past I have done and seen my plants victim of some big traumas to them. So I have been bending out the highest shoots on all the plants, keeping them on the same level of the lower shoots, and broadening the footprint of my plant.
Amazing that my plants are so horizontal, with so much leaf mass, and none of them is even 5 inches high! I feel good they will all be under 12 inches easily when I flip 'em.
The one plant that seems to be outgrowing all the others did it again. It has six serious shoots coming out, one of which I was trying to tame. I bent it back pretty severely and snapped it off! !@#%%$! It literally only had a tiny thread holding it on to the plant. I freaked out, took a few minutes to find some tape (Gorilla tape), and I taped that thing back in place.
Funny, that moment made me glad I have experience outdoors. I know that in the past you can tape these things up and 99% of the time they somehow reconnect and keep growing. With no experience, I probably would have just thrown the top away.
Can't believe I am flipping them, probably a week away.
When I compare these plants to my outdoor babies, one thing that strikes me is my outdoor plants, even when they are doing really well, take a full month before they could be called a hearty plant. These indoor plants are a lot further along.
I really have the feeling that this first grow is going to be very productive!
One of the most wondrous things of my life was my first cannabis harvest, with several different unknown strains. My favorite weed of all time was a sativa dominant from that first grow that had the most fun high ever but left me no seeds so I have never seen her again. But the amazement of how incredibly good the weed was, how fresh, how fragrant, how beautiful the buds were when they were growing on the plant, the purpling, it was an amazing experience.
And I have read about three in depth grow reports that show LED buds more potent than HID buds in every single test. I have never cared about having the best medicine, I just like having medicine. But it will be really good to have super tight, ultra-dense, frosted products to enjoy!
Still close to three months away...
One quick word. Every strain I have ever grown, granted I never knew what most of them were, but including many indica-dominants, none of them was EVER EVER ready before 8 weeks. I am of the opinion that flowering times, especially anything less than 8 weeks, are fantasy numbers. So I am planning on ten weeks. Maybe everything gets pulled after ten weeks, maybe I pull some and leave some, but I figure unless my trichomes turn amber on me they will all be going 10 weeks.
The craziest thing ever is to chop early. You lose potency and a LOT of product.
So funny you ask about training them. Since I topped 'em about a week ago, some have recovered much faster than others. I got scared to fully do Uncle Ben's technique, and I have a modified version of it that I really really like.
Uncle Ben's has you top the plant above the second true node, to get a four-cola plant. He also details that topping above the first node gives you a two-cola plant.
I was a little scared and not 100% which is the first true node. So I topped 'em all a node higher. Because of bushiness they are all responding with six branches, as I left and extra node intact. Internode spacing is so tight that several of the plants have the shoots off the second node higher than those off the top node. It may not work for all my plants, but most of them will have six viable colas on the same level. Especially now that I can train 'em.
In my past I have done and seen my plants victim of some big traumas to them. So I have been bending out the highest shoots on all the plants, keeping them on the same level of the lower shoots, and broadening the footprint of my plant.
Amazing that my plants are so horizontal, with so much leaf mass, and none of them is even 5 inches high! I feel good they will all be under 12 inches easily when I flip 'em.
The one plant that seems to be outgrowing all the others did it again. It has six serious shoots coming out, one of which I was trying to tame. I bent it back pretty severely and snapped it off! !@#%%$! It literally only had a tiny thread holding it on to the plant. I freaked out, took a few minutes to find some tape (Gorilla tape), and I taped that thing back in place.
Funny, that moment made me glad I have experience outdoors. I know that in the past you can tape these things up and 99% of the time they somehow reconnect and keep growing. With no experience, I probably would have just thrown the top away.
Can't believe I am flipping them, probably a week away.
When I compare these plants to my outdoor babies, one thing that strikes me is my outdoor plants, even when they are doing really well, take a full month before they could be called a hearty plant. These indoor plants are a lot further along.
I really have the feeling that this first grow is going to be very productive!
One of the most wondrous things of my life was my first cannabis harvest, with several different unknown strains. My favorite weed of all time was a sativa dominant from that first grow that had the most fun high ever but left me no seeds so I have never seen her again. But the amazement of how incredibly good the weed was, how fresh, how fragrant, how beautiful the buds were when they were growing on the plant, the purpling, it was an amazing experience.
And I have read about three in depth grow reports that show LED buds more potent than HID buds in every single test. I have never cared about having the best medicine, I just like having medicine. But it will be really good to have super tight, ultra-dense, frosted products to enjoy!
Still close to three months away...
One quick word. Every strain I have ever grown, granted I never knew what most of them were, but including many indica-dominants, none of them was EVER EVER ready before 8 weeks. I am of the opinion that flowering times, especially anything less than 8 weeks, are fantasy numbers. So I am planning on ten weeks. Maybe everything gets pulled after ten weeks, maybe I pull some and leave some, but I figure unless my trichomes turn amber on me they will all be going 10 weeks.
The craziest thing ever is to chop early. You lose potency and a LOT of product.
- Thread starter
- #38
Onamatopeia
New Member
I jinxed myself with that broken branch. It died. Oh well.
The horizontal space of my 2 X 4 tent is filled now, and my tallest plant is only 7 inches high. I don't mind letting them grow higher but some of them are still recovering from being topped, so I let them grow out but not up.
Since I am in there every day it is easy to do low stress training. All I am doing is redirecting my growth shoots horizontally wherever there is the most space. And letting the ones still recovering have plenty of light and space to catch up.
Flipping the lights maybe Tuesday. Very nervous that they may not be ready to respond. Will check the boards some more to see when people growing from bagseed can start flowering them.
The game of Tetris has already started. I expect it will be intense until I sex the plants. Once I know who the girls are, I have a series of decisions. Any bucket with three females, I will probably try to put one female in a bucket with either one or no females. Otherwise it's figure out how to rearrange the buckets and train 'em to fill up as much space as possible while staying on the same vertical level.
In two weeks I figure I will see my first females.
BTW my clone experiment failed. The stem started rotting. Oh well.
The horizontal space of my 2 X 4 tent is filled now, and my tallest plant is only 7 inches high. I don't mind letting them grow higher but some of them are still recovering from being topped, so I let them grow out but not up.
Since I am in there every day it is easy to do low stress training. All I am doing is redirecting my growth shoots horizontally wherever there is the most space. And letting the ones still recovering have plenty of light and space to catch up.
Flipping the lights maybe Tuesday. Very nervous that they may not be ready to respond. Will check the boards some more to see when people growing from bagseed can start flowering them.
The game of Tetris has already started. I expect it will be intense until I sex the plants. Once I know who the girls are, I have a series of decisions. Any bucket with three females, I will probably try to put one female in a bucket with either one or no females. Otherwise it's figure out how to rearrange the buckets and train 'em to fill up as much space as possible while staying on the same vertical level.
In two weeks I figure I will see my first females.
BTW my clone experiment failed. The stem started rotting. Oh well.
- Thread starter
- #39
Onamatopeia
New Member
Insane! I can't believe how fast these babies move. My area is now covered. The plants are so short and squat, and the branching so dense, I really wonder if I should flower them tonight. If there was any kind of problem the density of leaves could really make them vulnerable.
On the one hand, in two weeks I will have much more room as males get pulled. On the other, it almost seems too crowded right now, and the next two weeks look like the jungle will get out of control.
I think I will stop horizontaling them and let them grow up now. Chances are I will have plenty of opportunity to even out the heights in the months of flowering.
I have to say the Uncle Ben's topping method makes A LOT of sense for many growers. The beauty is it fills your canopy very quickly. Another advantage, which I will have to wait before I can confirm, is that it is supposed to greatly reduce the larfy stuff. All quality bud, so they say.
If it works I plan to start a thread on a modification of Uncle Ben's technique. Maybe I will call it Undergrow's Overtopping technique:
Uncle Ben's is that you top very early and leave the plant four branches only. I was cautious and topped mine a node above that, just in case something went wrong I wanted that extra node. The result is my plants all have exactly six branches. So they are filling up horizontally incredibly fast now. When I flower in a few days maybe they will all have basically six nice colas and that's the whole plant.
All my plants as far as I can tell are set for at least four main colas. Most have six but overcrowding is preventing me at the moment from getting six to the top of the canopy on some.
Honestly if you can visit your plants every day I have had super success in training my plants without any ties or string. I just bend them where I want them to go, and the next day I do the same thing. In a couple days the growth has solidified the way you wanted. Of course I did break one branch, hopefully I've learned my lesson.
What a luxury it is to grow indoors! You can visit your plants whenever you are home. You can look at them twice a day, or stare at them for an hour and watch them grow. You can see how they do, fix something, and check on it later that day. You can totally change their conditions on a whim. You have TOTAL CONTROL. Scary, that.
I know I wasn't going to get into expectations on this grow. But... I checked a couple of sites and now I have harvest numbers in my head. It's not fair because I don't know how many females I have! Or what strains any of them are! If things go according to these numbers my square feet could set me up for most of the year in one grow. Oh to not have to pay insane prices anymore! A significant amount of my budget, and many people I know, goes to purchasing this medicine. In a way not having to buy it gives you some of your life back because it makes you less poor! I can't be a guerrilla anymore, and in the last year I have realized just how expensive it is to buy.
And this grow will be unique in that I will spend more time with these plants than with any others I have ever grown. I have visited these things every single day they have been alive.
And my God they all look healthy and strong!
Off to read up on flowering young plants. I have to start them by Tuesday night probably won't get it figured out in time for tonight. So it's really only like two days between Sunday and Tuesday I start the 12/12
On the one hand, in two weeks I will have much more room as males get pulled. On the other, it almost seems too crowded right now, and the next two weeks look like the jungle will get out of control.
I think I will stop horizontaling them and let them grow up now. Chances are I will have plenty of opportunity to even out the heights in the months of flowering.
I have to say the Uncle Ben's topping method makes A LOT of sense for many growers. The beauty is it fills your canopy very quickly. Another advantage, which I will have to wait before I can confirm, is that it is supposed to greatly reduce the larfy stuff. All quality bud, so they say.
If it works I plan to start a thread on a modification of Uncle Ben's technique. Maybe I will call it Undergrow's Overtopping technique:
Uncle Ben's is that you top very early and leave the plant four branches only. I was cautious and topped mine a node above that, just in case something went wrong I wanted that extra node. The result is my plants all have exactly six branches. So they are filling up horizontally incredibly fast now. When I flower in a few days maybe they will all have basically six nice colas and that's the whole plant.
All my plants as far as I can tell are set for at least four main colas. Most have six but overcrowding is preventing me at the moment from getting six to the top of the canopy on some.
Honestly if you can visit your plants every day I have had super success in training my plants without any ties or string. I just bend them where I want them to go, and the next day I do the same thing. In a couple days the growth has solidified the way you wanted. Of course I did break one branch, hopefully I've learned my lesson.
What a luxury it is to grow indoors! You can visit your plants whenever you are home. You can look at them twice a day, or stare at them for an hour and watch them grow. You can see how they do, fix something, and check on it later that day. You can totally change their conditions on a whim. You have TOTAL CONTROL. Scary, that.
I know I wasn't going to get into expectations on this grow. But... I checked a couple of sites and now I have harvest numbers in my head. It's not fair because I don't know how many females I have! Or what strains any of them are! If things go according to these numbers my square feet could set me up for most of the year in one grow. Oh to not have to pay insane prices anymore! A significant amount of my budget, and many people I know, goes to purchasing this medicine. In a way not having to buy it gives you some of your life back because it makes you less poor! I can't be a guerrilla anymore, and in the last year I have realized just how expensive it is to buy.
And this grow will be unique in that I will spend more time with these plants than with any others I have ever grown. I have visited these things every single day they have been alive.
And my God they all look healthy and strong!
Off to read up on flowering young plants. I have to start them by Tuesday night probably won't get it figured out in time for tonight. So it's really only like two days between Sunday and Tuesday I start the 12/12
- Thread starter
- #40
Onamatopeia
New Member
Dayum! Just changed the lights on my timer.
I can't bear to give them 24 hours of darkness. But I will give them 14 or 15 this first night, just to sort of wake them up to say Huh? Are we supposed to flower or something? I have heard of giving them extended dark the first night you flip 'em but I am only extending it a couple of hours.
My entire canopy is full and thick. They are starting to stretch against each other as they compete for light. If I don't flip now I would have to take out some plants!
Very curious how long before the first male shows himself. In the wild you notice them stretch before any flowers, if I catch it that's when I know flowers are near. Here indoors I can check every single day!
Also very curious just how dark it needs to be for the plant to consider it dark. Those ventilation holes near the bottom of the tent, I spent a bunch of time shielding them so hopefully the closet door can be cracked and the plants in the tent will still think it is dark.
Honestly so amazed at how well everyone is growing. Every single plant is strong and healthy. Every single leaf!
Part one of my plan is complete. I haven't made any huge mistakes. Part two begins tonight!
I can't bear to give them 24 hours of darkness. But I will give them 14 or 15 this first night, just to sort of wake them up to say Huh? Are we supposed to flower or something? I have heard of giving them extended dark the first night you flip 'em but I am only extending it a couple of hours.
My entire canopy is full and thick. They are starting to stretch against each other as they compete for light. If I don't flip now I would have to take out some plants!
Very curious how long before the first male shows himself. In the wild you notice them stretch before any flowers, if I catch it that's when I know flowers are near. Here indoors I can check every single day!
Also very curious just how dark it needs to be for the plant to consider it dark. Those ventilation holes near the bottom of the tent, I spent a bunch of time shielding them so hopefully the closet door can be cracked and the plants in the tent will still think it is dark.
Honestly so amazed at how well everyone is growing. Every single plant is strong and healthy. Every single leaf!
Part one of my plan is complete. I haven't made any huge mistakes. Part two begins tonight!
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