Growing Without Bloom Nutes By Farside05

fanleaf said:
Okay, how about we look at 4 weeks to the day of flower on my very first plant I ever grew? This was under blurple LED and grown in a closet. The journal is here showing these pics at week 4. That should be a more fair comparison.
When plants grow in the wild, for millions of years they have been able to feed themselves what they need, when they need it from the soil. Growing with synthetic nutrients does rob the plant from being able to feed itself. Instead we literally force feed the plants with nutrients made with organic or synthetic acids that chelate our nutrients so the plants have no choice but to uptake them. The plants will do what they can to adapt but when certain nutrients are not in high enough supply the yield will suffer. Wouldn't it be far better to have plenty of NPK and micronutrients available at all times and let the plant decide what it needs and how much?
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Sorry, I do not buy into that philosophy or forcing anything into the plant via bottled nutes. Tissue samples do not support that one bit. If that were true, there would be a radical change in the plants makeup when using bloom food and there would be a drastic decrease in N and a spike in P in the plants tissue. That just doesn't show up. Now I do subscribe to providing adequate amounts of nutrients of each element/mineral and the plant will choose what it needs from there. Speaking of soil and nature, where in nature does the soil drastically change in nutrient composition when a plant transitions to flower? Nature does not provide "bloom food". It's one constant "formula" from start to finish.
 
fanleaf said:
flush for a week and a half to two weeks before Harvest you will be able to mostly eliminate everything that is left.
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You mean flush and then feed or flush and nothing but water for the last two weeks? I feed until harvest, no reason not to.
 
farside05 said:
Sorry, I do not buy into that philosophy or forcing anything into the plant via bottled nutes. Tissue samples do not support that one bit. If that were true, there would be a radical change in the plants makeup when using bloom food and there would be a drastic decrease in N and a spike in P in the plants tissue. That just doesn't show up. Now I do subscribe to providing adequate amounts of nutrients of each element/mineral and the plant will choose what it needs from there. Speaking of soil and nature, where in nature does the soil drastically change in nutrient composition when a plant transitions to flower? Nature foes not provide "bloom food". It's one constant "formula" from start to finish.
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There are radical changes that can be seen. It's very easy with synthetic fertilizers to overfeed and burn up a plant is it not? However the soil that I'm currently growing in with fresh seedlings has far more fertilizer than a strong dose of synthetics and there is no burning of my seedlings. How is this possible? It's because the plant can decide what it needs when it needs it when my fertilizers are cooked into the soil. There's enough nitrogen in my soil to probably kill 50 plants however my seedlings look perfect. Now if all of my nitrogen was chelated the plant would be burnt up in no time.
 
InTheShed said:
You mean flush and then feed or flush and nothing but water for the last two weeks? I feed until harvest, no reason not to.
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My take...If it were a tomato plant, would you want to harvest your tomato from a yellowed out, half dead and starving plant, or would you want one off a thriving green vine.
 
Green vine please...what do I win?
 
farside05 said:
My take...If it were a tomato plant, would you want to harvest your tomato from a yellowed out, half dead and starving plant, or would you want one off a thriving green vine.
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You kind of proved my point there. We often Harvest Tomatoes before they are ripe and still green and let them ripen on their own with no nutrition from the plant don't we?
 
Green vine, not green tomatoes. And some fruits ripen off the vine and some don't. None of them taste better that way though!
 
Have you ever eaten a tomato that has been grown 100% organically? And I don't mean soup style organically with chelated organic nutrients but actually 100% organic versus a tomato plant grown with Miracle Grow? There is an absolutely huge taste difference. This is why flushing is necessary. I'm going to go ahead and leave this thread be. Your plans are looking good man! We are just on two different sides of the coin here.
 
fanleaf said:
There are radical changes that can be seen. It's very easy with synthetic fertilizers to overfeed and burn up a plant is it not? However the soil that I'm currently growing in with fresh seedlings has far more fertilizer than a strong dose of synthetics and there is no burning of my seedlings. How is this possible? It's because the plant can decide what it needs when it needs it when my fertilizers are cooked into the soil. There's enough nitrogen in my soil to probably kill 50 plants however my seedlings look perfect. Now if all of my nitrogen was chelated the plant would be burnt up in no time.
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Please show me documented research where a tissue sample has more Phosphorus in it than Nitrogen.

Your soil may have more Nitrogen POTENTIAL, but it's not all immediately AVAILABLE. The little microbes have to break it down into available N for your plants to use. In a bottle it's already made available. You are comparing apples and oranges. You CAN burn plants with organic compounds that have a lot of immediately AVAILABLE N just as easily as bottled nutes. Some fresh hot cow shit mixed in your garden and you may have a toxic condition for a year.
 
DV-travis said:
I'm going to biuld a QB with the F-Series Gen3 led strips. Hoping 200w will work for my little 6sq ft tent.
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Sorry for the late reply. You kinda got overrun by a pissing contest. (I think I pissed farther and won :rofl: ) Don't know if you've been over HERE but that's where I got my build data from. I did the 3x3 Bridgelux build (the fixture is really 2x2). I went through the build sheets last week and it looks like prices are up some from when I built mine. I used the Bridgelux strips. When you take into consideration cost per strip and number of strips, they were the cheapest, and are on par with the Samsung's in efficiency. It uses more strips which I felt would give more even coverage. I did the fancy ass heat sinks like in the article but they are not really nescessary. They run so cool (the build is meant to max out at 75% of the strips capacity for best efficiency) that you can get away with simple U aluminum from the hardware store. The biggest drawback on the Bridgelux strips and using more of them than the Samsungs is build time. Twice as many strips means cutting and screwing together twice as much shit. Also, get solid core wire. I messed up and got regular braided. You can't push that limp stuff into the strips push in connectors. I had to run to the hardware and get something different.

Edit - I see you have been over looking at the LED Gardner site I referenced but I'll still leave that link up there in case others haven't. As far as you thinking about switching nutes. I have never done hempy, but the Dyna Gro Foliage Pro and Protekt combo works great in Pro Mix and Coco, not sure how they do in your media. I wouldn't have ever bought the Terpinator on my own, but since they sent me a big ass jug of it for POTM I thought I'd try to incorporate it in my feeding regiment. This is really the first I've heard of the Flora Flex line. Looks like I'll have to see what it's about. I got an unused (and likely never will be) Remo Nutrients Supercharged kit you can have if you want to arrange shipping at your expense.
 
Day 42

The girls are still stretching. Moved the lights up 12 ratchet clicks to get the tops back at 60k lux.

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  • Media owner farside05
  • Date added
 
Looks great! How come the tall ones always seem to be in the back corner where you can't reach to supercrop them?
farside05 said:
Moved the lights up 12 ratchet clicks
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In addition to metric and imperial measurements (and gerbil wangs of course), we now have to add ratchet clicks!
 
Icetech said:
60k about the max you wanna go?
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A couple articles I read said that 70-80k was the saturation point for plants. Any extra doesn't help and actually starts causing them stress. So I may let it go as high as 70k during the last 2 weeks of flower, but otherwise I'll try to keep it around 60k during bloom

The mailman brought this today. I broke the slider on my tiny bong so while I was searching for a replacement I found this big curvy thing. They threw in a small pipe as a freebie.

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  • Media owner farside05
  • Date added
 
I was trying to make a straight cylinder, but then I got high! Looks a lot less likely to slip through your hands..nice glass and sweet little bonus pipe :).
 
InTheShed said:
I was trying to make a straight cylinder, but then I got high! Looks a lot less likely to slip through your hands..nice glass and sweet little bonus pipe :).
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They had a straight one with ice catcher dimples I debated on. I opted for the more unusual.
 
Way cooler. I have those dimple water glasses and they're not as grip-able as they look. And definitely not as cool!
 
InTheShed said:
Looks great! How come the tall ones always seem to be in the back corner where you can't reach to supercrop them?

In addition to metric and imperial measurements (and gerbil wangs of course), we now have to add ratchet clicks!
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Both the taller ones are on the left side this round. I didn't supercrop because where do they really have to go? They are confined to 16 square inches a piece in my tiny tent. I'm already wall to wall. My MLK "I had a dream" speech involves having the ability to have a larger grow space or the ability to grow outdoors without reprisals. For now I do what I can.
 
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