Growing Without Bloom Nutes By Farside05

farside05 said:
Not like I'm computer illiterate, I can code a bit.
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Same here, I can write Arduino sketches, but I know just enough about coding to know that it's not too difficult to write a function to multiply or divide or whatever math is needed with known variables. I'm surprised Daniel didn't think of this when adding that feature, but after all, dude is a chemist, and maybe a botanist, I forgive his shortcomings with his coding skills or lack. If I had to sit down and figure it out, I could map it out in code, like variable A divided by variable B type shit, but to sit and figure out each math problem is beyond my limits of comprehension. I'm a stoner and am frequently baked, doing math is not how I want to enjoy my high, lol.
 
Skybound said:
Same here, I can write Arduino sketches, but I know just enough about coding to know that it's not too difficult to write a function to multiply or divide or whatever math is needed with known variables. I'm surprised Daniel didn't think of this when adding that feature, but after all, dude is a chemist, and maybe a botanist, I forgive his shortcomings with his coding skills or lack. If I had to sit down and figure it out, I could map it out in code, like variable A divided by variable B type shit, but to sit and figure out each math problem is beyond my limits of comprehension. I'm a stoner and am frequently baked, doing math is not how I want to enjoy my high, lol.
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Used to do my best coding after 1 AM with a combination of Tequila shots, whiskey sours, and beer chasers. I'd just have them lined up on my desk. Sounds like a horrible combo but somehow it made computer code turn into plain English, like deciphering the Matrix.
 
Skybound said:
As I understand it, nute companies mostly add roughly 10% of the liquid weight with dry salt weight, so 100 grams into every liter (give or take), so to maybe figure out the dry weights w/o doing to stupid math with Density you might just weigh the liquid and knowing the density deduct the liquid weight and only factor the salt weight, but that is just too complex for me to really comprehend which is why I hope he adds this function in the 1.9 version he's working on. I mean, what's the point of knowing the Density if it's not used in all of the math? I guess we can load the liquid substances, than target our elements on the front page and will will express the results in ml, but not many people will do the function that way.

Not to mention that the label info is wildly inaccurate, so relying on the label will return skewed results in bother directions to further confuse the math.

I am content with the low EC numbers I run now in hempy buckets of perlite, but mostly nothing I do is from info gathered from liquids, but from a grower on RIU that I queried about all of this in 2018. I used those numbers while I was using croutons and had great results, but then I got the idea of thrying the Faux Brix shit that crashed and burned, and I off ramped from that into Fuax Mix and trying to rev eng Megacrop cuz Farside is just killing it using that stuff. The only problem now is that Greenleaf is lying through their teeth on the label, so the shit that I was making think was Faux Mega was just some random left field mix that Greenleaf wanted sorry saps like me to mix when trying to rev end their special blend.

Well played Greenleaf, well played, ya got me!
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Part of the label vs what's truly in the bag thing came out when I first switched to Mega Crop and e-mailed them. They had N-P-K values posted on their site that didn't match what was on the bag. The rep wouldn't answer straight questions about it. I was left to conclude that this is the "guaranteed minimums" on the label, but actual amounts inside the bag could be significantly higher than those minimums, and in different ratios. Bitch if it is, we can only use the printed info unless we have lab tests done.
 
Skybound said:
but I know just enough about coding to know that it's not too difficult to write...
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...code that will keep NPK in the right order or put NH4+ immediately after NO3-?

:)
 
farside05 said:
Part of the label vs what's truly in the bag thing came out when I first switched to Mega Crop and e-mailed them. They had N-P-K values posted on their site that didn't match what was on the bag. The rep wouldn't answer straight questions about it. I was left to conclude that this is the "guaranteed minimums" on the label, but actual amounts inside the bag could be significantly higher than those minimums, and in different ratios. Bitch if it is, we can only use the printed info unless we have lab tests done.
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HERE's a good read about how they can skew their labels and where I got the link to the Oregon DB.

InTheShed said:
...code that will keep NPK in the right order or put NH4+ immediately after NO3-?

:)
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yeah, IDK why he has it NO3, K, P, and then NH4 all the way at the end. He's a chemist, so maybe there's some science reason behind that, but I never bothered to ask him that one. He answers a lot of Qs, but not them all.
 
Mr. Sauga said:
The nitrogen should be mainly in the nitrate form as it provides more compact and controlled growth. More extensive leaf and stem growth occurs with ammoniacal and urea nitrogen. In general, to avoid excessive stretching and oversized leaves, more than 60 percent of the nitrogen provided to plants should be in the nitrate form. Ideally 70 to 80 percent as this will provide a moderate growth response and avoid overly large cannabis plants.
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farside05 said:
I'd be interested to see the source data on the claim of 90% N in it's Nitrate form. The Dyna-Gro I used to use was only 66%, the Jacks 15-5-20 is 80%.
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Sorry, it wasn't 90%, 70-80%.
 
Spent the night redoing the Elemental Calculator in MY SPREADSHEETS. It should be far more accurate now. Did higher level math than before. Now that it's correct, I compared it to Mega Crop's posted elemental breakdown to determine exactly what's in the bag vs the Guaranteed Analysis printed on the bag. ***This is for the more recent formula, not the old stinky brown stuff. The results:

Total N 10%
NO3 9%
NH4 1%
P 7.7%
K 18.1%
Mg 2.8%
Ca 7.4%
S 3.6%
Fe .15%
Zn .06%
B .02%
Mn .04%
Cu .02%
Mo .01%
Si .15%

Thought you Hydrobuddy guys may want that info @InTheShed @Mr. Sauga @Skybound

The formula to calculate ppm per gallon, from grams of fertilizer, goes like this:

Grams used x number of element on label / 100 to convert to the whole number you entered from the label to a percentage x 1000 to change grams to milligrams / 3.78 converting gallons to liters. Milligrams per liter are the same as ppm.

Example, say you use 4g of a fertilizer with Total N of 15.

4x15/100*1000/3.78=158.78 ppm of N.

You can really simplify the formula further and get rid of the /100*1000 part and use:

Grams used x number on label / .378 x (adjustment factor if computing P2O5, K2O, or SiO2, see below)

To further complicate things, you need to multiply the results by the following factors for three elements to get the true ppm supplied:

P when derived from P2O5 .43
K when derived from K2O .83
Si when derived from SiO2 .467
 
Plants look extremely well calculated!

And it's nice to know you had a quiet night at work.
:welldone:

Unfortunately for me I still have 20 lbs of the stinky brown stuff...with balls!
farside05 said:
Changed my avatar to a Far Side cartoon with a chicken.
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Well there goes finding your thread and posts quickly...!
 
Skybound said:
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Kinda verifies the the usage rate for Faux-Tekt (at least in soil-less or foliar of .7g/gal AgSil, which is 5ml/gal Faux-Tekt solution) and why people in true hydro have to drop it down to more like 2ml.
 
I never knew the Si availability decreased over time. If ever I find myself running a recirculating system again, I'll know to divide my weekly Si dose into 4 and add a quarter dose every other day. I also just learned there's a different kind of Silica for hydro, called mono-silicic acid, it's more stable and doesn't precipitate, but it's like a $140 a liter.
 
I'm stuck in Gummy Bear Hell. Have 6 batches to make. 4 down, 2 to go. Not a way to spend your day off. #DoNotRecommend #ZeroStars
 
Skybound said:
I never knew the Si availability decreased over time. If ever I find myself running a recirculating system again, I'll know to divide my weekly Si dose into 4 and add a quarter dose every other day. I also just learned there's a different kind of Silica for hydro, called mono-silicic acid, it's more stable and doesn't precipitate, but it's like a $140 a liter.
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Not sure how much silica you add, but I'm using Stout MSA (0-0-0) and it's a lot cheaper (though to hit 50ppm it takes 15ml/gal).
 
InTheShed said:
Not sure how much silica you add, but I'm using Stout MSA (0-0-0) and it's a lot cheaper (though to hit 50ppm it takes 15ml/gal).
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I'm down to 15ppm now to make PH management easier, but the fact that silica solubility when it's with potassium has a short shelf life when the PH is corrected to our range which when I was using a recirculating system with GH, than my own, I was only getting 2-3 days of every 7 day res mix. It's not a problem for me anymore b/c I do DTW now, but if I ever got brave enough to try the $140 shit, IDK how many ppm I would use because that stuff remains available always, so maybe a little would go a lot further.
 
The Jack's 15-5-20 came in today. I haven't been real pleased with the autos thus far. Something has been a hair off with them. They aren't their normal verdantness. They are growing in recycled, once used, Faux-Mix. Not sure if the son rinsed it out real well to get any built up nutes out of it before the reuse. I'm guessing that's where the problem is coming from. So here's what I did. Everyone got 3 gallons of tap, followed by a gallon feed. The back row got 4g Jack's, .5g Epsom Salts. Front left got 3.3g Jack's, .3g Epsom Salts. Front right is staying with Mega Crop as a comparison to Front Left. It got 4g Mega Crop. Will be interesting to see what the next couple days bring.

IMG_20210324_212102.jpg

IMG_20210324_212102.jpg

 
Sons...whatcha gonna do?
 

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