Grand Daddy Black Grows A Stack

[InTheShed]

When @beez0404 had a media pH issue in the GSC grow what worked there was to adjust the feed pH. The nutrient solution will start at whatever pH you set it but when added to the media it will drift to the media pH. You said your pH is low right? So if you mix your nutrient at a high pH it will decrease over time after you feed. In beer grow this was enough to allow the plant to take in the nutrients they needed while the pH slowly drifted.

As I recall, beez pH was high six’s when it should have been high 5’s. What worked was to mix nutrient at low pH. (That was the plant of the month winner so you know it worked)

What was your media pH, how low was it? Maybe try adjusting nutrient pH to ~6.8-7 knowing it will decrease in the pot. What do you think @InTheShed

Well since you asked, there is no scientific backing that says raising the pH of your nutrient solution will in any way change the pH of your buffered media. The pH of the buffered media is all that matters from what I can find on the subject in the scientific literature.

For more info you can check out the opening post in my thread here:

Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?

Greetings all! I recently had a running email conversation with the "Grower Services & Product Development Director" at ProMix (aka Premier Tech). I began the conversation by posting a question on their website, asking if I should be treating ProMix HP as soil or soil-less when mixing...

www.420magazine.com

This can be a touchy subject and I don't want to use GDB's thread to go back and forth if this isn't your take on it, but I'd be more than happy to discuss it over at my house here:

InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

Well, this auto grower has jumped into Clone World because I got an offer, and who am I to turn down free plants! Details: - AK-47 fem (x2): 20:1 THC/CBD, 60% Indica/40% Sativa - Gold Leaf fem: 21:"high" THC/CBD (really, what the heck does that mean?), 35% Indica/65% Sativa - Clones taken from...

www.420magazine.com

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

This can be a touchy subject and I don't want to use GDB's thread to go back and forth if this isn't your take on it, but I'd be more than happy to discuss it over at my house here:

InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

Well, this auto grower has jumped into Clone World because I got an offer, and who am I to turn down free plants! Details: - AK-47 fem (x2): 20:1 THC/CBD, 60% Indica/40% Sativa - Gold Leaf fem: 21:"high" THC/CBD (really, what the heck does that mean?), 35% Indica/65% Sativa - Clones taken from...

www.420magazine.com

Or, you guys can discuss it here. GDB (Gotta' Dim Bulb) needs to know!

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

Hello growers.

Here's a full update on the goings ons.

THE FAST TENT
It's day 65 post-flip for the Fast bunch and I almost got away. But alas, I must keep sounding like a broken record because the spider mites have returned.

I noticed them a few days ago on the Bubblegum #2. I treated her and lightly treated the Bubblegum #1 (which was right next to her) with insecticidal soap. This morning I saw no movement but I know from this point on it's just a race against time. I won't be able to get rid of them completely.

BTW, there is something I'm doing wrong because whenever I spray plants for mites the leaves get all mucked up looking. I recall @InTheShed saying that that certain foliar sprays need to be rinsed off with water at some point after application. I haven't been doing that and I imagine that's what's behind the weird looking leaves on the BB#2. Or, maybe I just go overboard with the spray. I don't know.

Here's are the BBs, with BB#2 to the right. (Look how all of her leaves are curled up at the edges.)

I haven't spotted any mites on the Critical Poison or Bruce Banner yet. That matters not, I know they are there. The Banner is on the right. Her leaves all curl down and they've been that way throughout the grow! Quite unsettling.

The Chiquita Banana clone is an unruly mess thanks to yours truly. I bet her lack of an even canopy and general sloppiness would send some of you into therapy.

The tent pic. I've rearranged things to try to keep everyone far apart and give the mites further to travel to get to a new flavor.

A motley crew to say the least!

GOG CLONES
One of the clones has nearly returned to a normal color while the other still shows plenty of yellowing. Good girl left. Bad girl right.

I may give the plant on the right a little bit more lime (half a tablespoon) to see if that helps. I'd appreciate any feedback on this idea.

These plants continue to put weight on already heavy buds. I'm wondering what this means as far as the quality of the meds. Does a plant that grows nice buds even with an apparent deficiency finish with the same amount of beneficial goodies? I doubt it, but I'll find out soon enough.

THE FREEBIE + 1 GROW
The babies are moving along nicely on day 22. I think I will top the Original Glue, the Fast Banana and the THC Bomb either today or tomorrow. The Alien Rock Candy gets 5-6 more days with her head still attached.

That Chiquita Banana clone will remain in that solo cup until it can no longer hold her. Then I plan to move her to a 2 gallon pot where she will finish. (If I can't make that work, she will go to my grow-buddy.)

As I said earlier, it's a race against time now. The Fast strains have the following flower-time estimates from the breeder: Critical Poison 45 days, Bruce Banner 55 days and Bubblegum 50 days. It can't take much longer for them.

I remain optimistic. Even with the mites appearing again in the 5x5 tent, this was a small victory of sorts for me. They didn't turn up until late into the grow and there doesn't seem to be the large horde of them that I usually encounter. So I've made some baby steps in learning how to deal with them and I'll continue to work on trying to get better.

That's all I have.

Thanks for looking in.

Peace.

 

[West Hippie]

Hello growers.

Here's a full update on the goings ons.

THE FAST TENT
It's day 65 post-flip for the Fast bunch and I almost got away. But alas, I must keep sounding like a broken record because the spider mites have returned.

I noticed them a few days ago on the Bubblegum #2. I treated her and lightly treated the Bubblegum #1 (which was right next to her) with insecticidal soap. This morning I saw no movement but I know from this point on it's just a race against time. I won't be able to get rid of them completely.

BTW, there is something I'm doing wrong because whenever I spray plants for mites the leaves get all mucked up looking. I recall @InTheShed saying that that certain foliar sprays need to be rinsed off with water at some point after application. I haven't been doing that and I imagine that's what's behind the weird looking leaves on the BB#2. Or, maybe I just go overboard with the spray. I don't know.

Here's are the BBs, with BB#2 to the right. (Look how all of her leaves are curled up at the edges.)

I haven't spotted any mites on the Critical Poison or Bruce Banner yet. That matters not, I know they are there. The Banner is on the right. Her leaves all curl down and they've been that way throughout the grow! Quite unsettling.

The Chiquita Banana clone is an unruly mess thanks to yours truly. I bet her lack of an even canopy and general sloppiness would send some of you into therapy.

The tent pic. I've rearranged things to try to keep everyone far apart and give the mites further to travel to get to a new flavor.

A motley crew to say the least!

GOG CLONES
One of the clones has nearly returned to a normal color while the other still shows plenty of yellowing. Good girl left. Bad girl right.

I may give the plant on the right a little bit more lime (half a tablespoon) to see if that helps. I'd appreciate any feedback on this idea.

These plants continue to put weight on already heavy buds. I'm wondering what this means as far as the quality of the meds. Does a plant that grows nice buds even with an apparent deficiency finish with the same amount of beneficial goodies? I doubt it, but I'll find out soon enough.

THE FREEBIE + 1 GROW
The babies are moving along nicely on day 22. I think I will top the Original Glue, the Fast Banana and the THC Bomb either today or tomorrow. The Alien Rock Candy gets 5-6 more days with her head still attached.

That Chiquita Banana clone will remain in that solo cup until it can no longer hold her. Then I plan to move her to a 2 gallon pot where she will finish. (If I can't make that work, she will go to my grow-buddy.)

As I said earlier, it's a race against time now. The Fast strains have the following flower-time estimates from the breeder: Banana 55 days, Bruce Banner 50 days and Bubblegum 45 days. It can't take much longer for them.

I remain optimistic. Even with the mites appearing again in the 5x5 tent, this was a small victory of sorts for me. They didn't turn up until late into the grow and there doesn't seem to be the large horde of them that I usually encounter. So I've made some baby steps in learning how to deal with them and I'll continue to work on trying to get better.

That's all I have.

Thanks for looking in.

Peace.

I’m still spraying SNS 209 every three days at lights out . I have one ass of a bug that still here , fly’s crawls and has a stinger . I tried shooting it with the salt gun but put tiny holes in the leaves so no more ! Other than that girls are looking great.

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

I’m still spraying SNS 209 every three days at lights out . I have one ass of a bug that still here , fly’s crawls and has a stinger . I tried shooting it with the salt gun but put tiny holes in the leaves so no more ! Other than that girls are looking great.

Hey @West Hippie!

When I started this grow I included SNS209 with every feed (watered in not foliar). but I had these little white gnats seemingly imbedded in my soil. Even when watered with 209 those little suckers would flit around on top of the soil like someone had just refilled their swimming pool. They were going nowhere.

So I stopped using the 209 drench and started using insecticidal soaps and SNS PC as foliar treatments. That got rid of the gnats but may have cracked the door open for the mites!

I'm battling bugs but I'm also battling this old house that they seem to love.

 

[West Hippie]

Hey @West Hippie!

When I started this grow I included SNS209 with every feed (watered in not foliar). but I had these little white gnats seemingly imbedded in my soil. Even when watered with 209 those little suckers would flit around on top of the soil like someone had just refilled their swimming pool. They were going nowhere.

So I stopped using the 209 drench and started using insecticidal soaps and SNS PC as foliar treatments. That got rid of the gnats but may have cracked the door open for the mites!

I'm battling bugs but I'm also battling this old house that they seem to love.

Frigging ants are the pony they ride in on . Once I stopped them it cleared up ,cost me so I’ll have to add it to the spread sheet. The ants liked the Landry room and the a/c condensation piping , I NP-1 those openings. I know y’all don’t have these up there but fire ants I scoop up a shovel full of them and put them on the carpenter ants mound and they have an empty nest by the time they attacked them . Next day put some Android fire ant bait then there gone .

 

[InTheShed]

BTW, there is something I'm doing wrong because whenever I spray plants for mites the leaves get all mucked up looking. I recall @InTheShed saying that that certain foliar sprays need to be rinsed off with water at some point after application. I haven't been doing that and I imagine that's what's behind the weird looking leaves on the BB#2. Or, maybe I just go overboard with the spray. I don't know.

If it's the potassium salts of fatty acids spray (Safer Insect Killing Soap) then yes, it should be rinsed off either later that day or the following morning so it doesn't build up on the leaves. As it accumulates it could be blocking the stomata making it harder for the leaves to breathe.

Does a plant that grows nice buds even with an apparent deficiency finish with the same amount of beneficial goodies?

I don't have a scientific answer, but if I had to guess I would say that you end up with smaller buds in a plant with deficiencies. I imagine that a plant with serious deficiencies would be deficient every which way (but loose?).

I’ll have to add it to the spread sheet.

Oh good, you still have a spreadsheet! Haven't seen it for recent grows, have we?

fire ants I scoop up a shovel full of them and put them on the carpenter ants mound and they have an empty nest by the time they attacked them . Next day put some Android fire ant bait then there gone .

Sounds like the Roman Colosseum!

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

I don't have a scientific answer, but if I had to guess I would say that you end up with smaller buds in a plant with deficiencies. I imagine that a plant with serious deficiencies would be deficient every which way (but loose?).

I was thinking the same way, but the buds on these are far from small. They're larger than the buds were on their momma.

Very confusing at the moment.

 

[InTheShed]

Maybe because it's not a serious deficiency (by the plant's standards), and it's sucking up what it needs from the leaves.

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

Maybe because it's not a serious deficiency (by the plant's standards), and it's sucking up what it needs from the leaves.

I don't think my plants have any standards.

 

[Prescription Blend]

Since GDB said we could talk about it here..

Well since you asked, there is no scientific backing that says raising the pH of your nutrient solution will in any way change the pH of your buffered media. The pH of the buffered media is all that matters from what I can find on the subject in the scientific literature.

I absolutely agree that changing the nutrient solution pH will not affect the media pH during a grow. Buffered media will resist changes to pH by design and any nutrient solution that is applied will go to the pH of the media over time. This is due to the buffering capacity of the media being many many times greater then the nutrient solution capacity to affect pH change (either donating or accepting H+).

The suggestion made in my previous post, to use a high pH nutrient solution to compensate for low media pH, is intended to exploit the fact that media pH is the dominant factor. If we know the media pH is lets say 5.5 and nutrient solution is added at pH 6.8 then once the nutrient is in the root zone it will drift down to 5.5. The intension in doing this would not be trying to change media pH. As the nutrient solution decreases to 5.5 in the media it lets the plants take in the various elements as pH drifts down.

 

[InTheShed]

If we know the media pH is lets say 5.5 and nutrient solution is added at pH 6.8 then once the nutrient is in the root zone it will drift down to 5.5. The intension in doing this would not be trying to change media pH. As the nutrient solution decreases to 5.5 in the media it lets the plants take in the various elements as pH drifts down.

Do you know how long it takes the substrate to buffer the pH of the liquid? An hour? 12 hours?

This is the only experiment I've seen and it's completely non-scientific.

And I can't find any scientific reference to the using the pH of nutrients to counteract a substrate pH that's out of range, including from the manufacturer of ProMix.

 

[Prescription Blend]

Do you know how long it takes the substrate to buffer the pH of the liquid? An hour? 12 hours?

Short answer, No.

Considering this system is very complex it's not possible to make generalizations without a lot of data. It would depend on the specific media components, carbonate hardness of the starting water, any amendments added etc. Even for a peat media, the buffering capacity changes with age and how long plants have been interacting with it.

In the example from your link, the member was using 70/30 coco loco/FFOF with "the proper amendments" and tap water. Without knowing what those amendments were/amount or the hardness of the water it's difficult to draw a useful conclusion other then media pH wins.

One thing that can be said is that a nutrient solution would take longer to have the same pH drift as compared to plain water. How long that would take is much harder to say without testing.

 

[InTheShed]

Considering this system is very complex it's not possible to make generalizations without a lot of data.

it'd difficult to draw a useful conclusion other then media pH wins.

How long that would take is much harder to say without testing.

All excellent reasons to adjust the pH of the substrate rather than to try to overcome its buffering capability. Nitrate nitrogen will raise it and ammoniacal nitrogen will lower it. It works every time for me.

 

[Prescription Blend]

All excellent reasons to adjust the pH of the substrate rather than to try to overcome its buffering capability.

Agreed. This is a better resolution that is more controllable/predictable over time if you have the supplies to do it.

 

[JanRobertson]

Thanks for this thread really, I have finally grown my own plants

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

I absolutely agree that changing the nutrient solution pH will not affect the media pH during a grow.

And I can't find any scientific reference to the using the pH of nutrients to counteract a substrate pH that's out of range, including from the manufacturer of ProMix.

Considering this system is very complex it's not possible to make generalizations without a lot of data. It would depend on the specific media components, carbonate hardness of the starting water, any amendments added etc.

All excellent reasons to adjust the pH of the substrate rather than to try to overcome its buffering capability. Nitrate nitrogen will raise it and ammoniacal nitrogen will lower it. It works every time for me.

Agreed. This is a better resolution that is more controllable/predictable over time if you have the supplies to do it.

 

[StoneOtter]

Nope, just keep it moist and it will keep. I moisten mine with any teas leftover to get it microbed up. Not sure they live that long but they keep the cooking action going making it better. Yes 30 days sounds good if you didn't keep it moist along the way. It's fine. 30 days may be overkill. My next grow will be in soil amended almost a year ago and if it's wet when I go to use it It'll be fine. I do water it from time to time.

11/19 is when I amended it as I used some yesterday.

 

[StoneOtter]

Hello growers.

No real update on my greenery today except to say that my GOG clone pots are light enough to be watered. I will feed them today.

I really wanted to show off the outdoor girl my buddy and I are growing in his backyard. It's from a Grand Daddy Purple clone I gave him earlier this year. I had no idea he was going to put it outside but was excited when he did. He's been out of town recently so I've had to spend more time with her, and I am enamored!

We're both new to this outdoor thing so I think the Weed Spirits gave us a break. No bugs, no pm and just a tiny bit of bud rot!

Peace.

She's a beauty Man! Outdoors is different! Wait until you lay some in a vape or jay! Mmmmmm!

I bet her lack of an even canopy and general sloppiness would send some of you into therapy.

Hah! Not even close! Every plant of yours looks Royal to me my friend! Have you seen my grows? They look rode hard and put away wet every harvest! Your bud! That's Gold!

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

She's a beauty Man! Outdoors is different! Wait until you lay some in a vape or jay! Mmmmmm!

Hah! Not even close! Every plant of yours looks Royal to me my friend! Have you seen my grows? They look rode hard and put away wet every harvest! Your bud! That's Gold!

Thanks, Stone. I really appreciate the kind words!