Final Decision : Volksgarden 600w vs. CAP E&G 1kw : Start to Finish in ~1 week

[WheeloFortune]

Well Boys and Girls. . . Get Ya Ready because it's showtime

As many of you know, I've spent the last year here @420mag letting you guys watch me try (and fail) to master what I now consider to be a very challenging way to grow. Rotational. . . Perhaps the most challenging.

As my frustration with this system has grown over the past year, it has taught me many things about a tight system in which the variables have to be controlled within slim margins of error. Semi-failure after semi-failure has forced me to ask if the possible rewards from this system are worth the effort and difficulties inherent to the system itself. To make a long story short, if you don't wish to read anymore, I'll tell you the ending right now, it isn't. For me, the downsides do not outweigh the upsides, and this will be my final Wheel Journal at least for a long while.

This grow is just finished and I think it turned out ok. I installed some new equipment throughout the grow, and did have one major mishap which affected my final yield. It's gonna take some time to edit and upload all of these pics. I figure a week or so would be a reasonable time frame to present this, but it will really just go as fast as I can fit that into my schedule.

Both the E&G and the wheel are being fed from the same 55 gal reservoir, so that should minimize feeding differences. watered on seperate schedules of course.

My one camera lens is still broken, so I'm still stuck only with the telephoto, so pictures are hard to get wide angles and has short focus ranges, but I did my best.

 

[WheeloFortune]

So, Run Down On Equipment:

1)THE VOLKSGARDEN (started with 80)
.a)600w quantum digital dimmable ballast
.b)600w HPS bulb
.c)6" inline duct fan (160cfm) and ducting
.d)box fan blowing into tent
.e) 35"x47"x85" sunhut tent

2)CAP Ebb n Gro (10 pot's because 2 were broken during shipping)
.a)started with a 600w HPS and a 400w MH/HPS switchable, was replaced in week 5 with a 1kw
.aa)1kw Quantum digital dimmable ballast
.b)1kw enhanced spectrum bulb
.c)Fresca Sol water cooled light with wing reflector (wk. 5) 55 gal drum and chiller.
.d)8" inline duct fan/carbon filter
.e)tower fan
.f)4'x8' HTG crappy tent. but I only used 4x4 of it.

Commonalities:
a)Full line of AN Connoisseur nute reg @ light feeding + Bud Factor X.
b)Dehumidifier
c)Nutridip Tri-Meter (pH, EC, Temp F)
e)Air Pump/Stone
f)Maddd timers, power strips, ducting, tape, etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

[Setting Sun]

So that's what you've been up to, lol.

I couldn't pass on being the first post, and it's cool that you're doing this retrospectively so we don't have to wait things out.

taking a break from growing, eh?

 

[WheeloFortune]

So here are some veg stage. They are in a MegaGarden ebb n flow and under a 400w MH. These girls are ripe for cloning the 80 clones i need for the wheel.

and some clones i took for the wheel:

 

[WheeloFortune]

So that's what you've been up to, lol.

I couldn't pass on being the first post, and it's cool that you're doing this retrospectively so we don't have to wait things out.

taking a break from growing, eh?

lol, glad your here SS. yeah, I think this will be more interesting for y'all. . . to have it nice, fast, and compact. . . I really am taking a break now to redesign my room again - this time without the wheel. lol. I'm shooting for a summer grow next that will top 1g/w or bust. . . but thats for later.

 

[WheeloFortune]

so at this point, i have those clones you just saw, I took 80 more off of those vegging in the mega-garden. then i went out to the west coast for 5 days. . . when I got back enough of the 80 had rooted that i filled the wheel. I used 10 of the moms that i took cuttings from for the Ebb n Gro, and flipped to 12/12:

so here is everything DAY 2 of flower. it is 2 weeks after the last veg pics.

here is the cap:

the rig I made to feed the wheel: it ebbs and flows with the controller. once a day, i have another timer that waits for the res to fill and then pops on and fills the wheel. The ebb controller goes to drain and there is enough water left at the bottom of the res to keep a constant flow cycle to the flood tray from the pump. . . 45 minutes later the wheel empties and goes back to the drum via the controller. trust me, it worked perfectly except for that one time. . . lol.

and here are a few of the wheel, always looks so healthy in the beginning.

in this pic you can see some big ones on the right. those are the clones you saw in the first post. i'll call them the older clones for this grow. they vegged an extra 5 days in the wheel, and extra time in clone.

 

[WheeloFortune]

And here is day 6 of flower.

here are a bunch of self explanatory wheel shots:

you can see the 6" duct fan worked in here

here is the res filling up with the rest of the pots.

growing nicely so far.

and here is the ebb n flow. . . the growth is outstanding, all that water, all that air, really lets the roots get what they want:

 

[WheeloFortune]

you can see in the last pics, i ran out of hydroton and was kinda living cheap back then. hey, i just spent a bunch on the new equip and was broke. . . i got some more later. a couple other things may be on the cheap as well, i kept logs and could check. . . don't worry many of the shots are with the hps off. . . but im done for now.

trust me, it will get a lot better. . . also fyi, I am fe->maleing one of the wheel plants to try to get some feminized HS seed. and 20 of the wheel plants are Great White Shark. The rest are Holy Shit. . . the Ebb is all Holy Shit.

 

[TorturedSoul]

it's cool that you're doing this retrospectively so we don't have to wait things out.

I often find myself reading journals in the Completed sub-forum because I know I won't find myself frustrated as I wait for the next episode, lol

you can see in the last pics, i ran out of hydroton and was kinda living cheap back then.

I once found myself spending the better part of a weekend meticulously scrubbing LOTS of individual pieces of geolite (same thing different brand) with a wire brush, trying to get the previous grow's buildup of salts off because the hydro store was ~150 miles away and I wanted to, err... save time (I know, lol. Maybe it's a stoner thing?).

Then, of course, after I'd installed all of the balls into their new homes, I realized that one of the primary features of exploded clay pellets is that they are porous <WHOOPS!> and that the salt buildup on their outside was only a reflection of the salt deposits that were on the inside.

I've often wondered if I could have just placed them in a pot on the stove containing a simmering mixture of 1/3 white vinegar (as it always seems to completely flush out all of the salt-crud from my coffee pot) and 2/3 water for an hour or so. Well, I'm actually pretty sure it would have dissolved the vast majority of salts - my concern was that something would have remained from the treatment that would have caused me problems with pH afterwards, as vinegar is acidic.

Gee, I seem to be typing a lot in other people's threads this evening, lol. Sorry about that. And thanks again for posting! Your threads have been occasionally entertaining, often educational, and always interesting.

And now for some on-topic(?) content: I've thought about the nature of the wheel grows in general and I could never get past both the lack of "vertical" space - making some sort of giant wheel would seem to not be the answer as there wouldn't be a way to adjust the light - and the nature of growing inwards from a circular border that means that as the plants grow, they have less space in which to do so. I now find myself wondering if, instead of a circular design, a hexagonal-shaped "wheel" would be better. After all, the honeybees say that it's the most efficient space found in nature, lol.

Again, for posting this thread - and all of the other ones!

 

[The Butcher]

Damn it I cant believe i missed this today!!

 

[PotPie]

Subscribed! Nice work Wheelo.

 

[StinkFinger]

Hey Wheel!

Too cool man. Grabbin a chair. (eff it, lying on the bed)

Should be a great ride.

SF

PS. Your plants look fantastic!

 

[Keith Lake]

The final spin?

I'm happy to see you maxed out the 80 clones this round, one of the harder tasks I'd imagine.

I love these head to head comparisons, particular when done by a proper Head

 

[McBudz]

Been pretty busy huh? Nice!!

 

[WeedyMcWeedWeed]

im in. everythings lookin really good

 

[WheeloFortune]

I often find myself reading journals in the Completed sub-forum because I know I won't find myself frustrated as I wait for the next episode, lol

And now for some on-topic(?) content: I've thought about the nature of the wheel grows in general and I could never get past both the lack of "vertical" space - making some sort of giant wheel would seem to not be the answer as there wouldn't be a way to adjust the light - and the nature of growing inwards from a circular border that means that as the plants grow, they have less space in which to do so. I now find myself wondering if, instead of a circular design, a hexagonal-shaped "wheel" would be better. After all, the honeybees say that it's the most efficient space found in nature, lol.

Again, for posting this thread - and all of the other ones!

Thanks Tor, you're comments are always welcome here. I agree with you On the growin "in" towards the center of a circle. . . I think a bigger wheel would work way better because the tolerances you're dealing with will be much more forgiving. . . you could always get a dimmable ballast like i have. In fact, I ran a good portion of this wheel grow 450w instead of 600 once burning and bleaching started to become a problem.

This systems still shows me flashes of possible brilliance, but they are few and far between. . . If i was only a better green thumb, maybe I could have really got my moneys worth out of this system, but alas I am not.

I am a results oriented guy though, so if it's broke, I try to fix it. Back to the drawing board. (get the wallet out). lol.

Damn it I cant believe i missed this today!!

You've not missed anything bro, This will be such a fast journey though, i bet many will miss out, but hey, thats why we have archives (and so Tor can power read journals lol)

Subscribed! Nice work Wheelo.

thanks POT, this will be a quicky.

Hey Wheel!

Too cool man. Grabbin a chair. (eff it, lying on the bed)

Should be a great ride.

SF

PS. Your plants look fantastic!

Thanks man, they get a lot better.

The final spin?

I'm happy to see you maxed out the 80 clones this round, one of the harder tasks I'd imagine.

I love these head to head comparisons, particular when done by a proper Head

Final spin Bro, then off to storage with the wheel until such time that I have way more room.

In fact I did two sets of clones, one a couple weeks before the others. . . as you can see from my earlier posts. . . turned out not to be a great thing, but you're right, for me getting enough green to fill it is one of the major hurtles and one of the reasons its getting put away.

I still made a rook mistake late in flower, but you'll see how both of the systems reacted to the exact same problem, and that should illustrate even further the testiness of one system compared to the other.

glad you watching over me Soniq!

Been pretty busy huh? Nice!!

yup, after watching you and pit and etc. etc. I had to take an honest look at why I am putting in so much effort for worse results. . . i couldn;t think of a reason, so here we are.

Thanks for being a guiding light bro.

im in. everythings lookin really good

Thanks man, stay tuned, things will move quickly.

WF

 

[WheeloFortune]

Ok, lets do some updating while I have some time.

Lets start with Day 10 of flower:

ok so to start, I had to take some undesirable clones to get the wheel full, including from branches a already topped. the row in the middle here are all topped except the ast on in the row.

here are 3 that are of the older clones from different zooms. you can see already that they are going to be a bit too big. 3 or 4 inches taller than where I would like them to finish. *you know, if omega could increase the diameter by 18", that would give an extra 9" of breathing room on either side of the cooltube, I think it would make the system 4 or 5 times easier to manage.. . Nut they wont, probably because it would make it a lot harder to ship. . . at this diameter, to get 80 clones to be the exact same size, all within an inch of the sweet spot of the light (15" tall at finish) is not an easy task. . . your clones have to be very uniform to max this aspect. I suggest a 2 day veg to avoid dwarfing as many as you can but with as little veg time as possible.

I took a few with the HPS on. . . this is at 300w at this point. . . thinking back on it i should have never gone over 450 watts in this thing. . . I have no idea how cmx ran a 1k hps with no fan in this thing with no burning. I think dual 250's would be perfect for this system actually. better coverage.

ok up to this point, I am running a 600w HPS and a 400w MH side by side over the EnG. When I put them in they were very spindly because i had taken so many clones, and when i grew them out under the MH in that mega garden they got crowded and stretched a bunch. . . But damn that much light, and being able to feed so often in the EnG, I had explosive growth. . . these pics were taken with the MH on, HPS off.

 

[WheeloFortune]

ok so here in week 2 flower, things are moving quickly due to stretch so i took some more a few days later

DAY 13 FLOWER

Lets start with the EnG, since its doing so great

Here you can see the two hoods, the one in the back is a double hood and i'm only using one side, and the front is the 400 switchable.

Now we move on to the wheel. look at the dramatic difference in size with the few extra days veg some of the girls got in these next two:

here is the girl that I have been STS fe->maleing not much to see yet. . . I used a milder mixture this time through and have been spraying it down every few days instead of just 2 applications. . . no sign of stress this way, and worked very well.

random shot

there are some early signs of nute deficiency or lockout so next feeding i flushed with clearex and then did a nute change. the new res started week 3 and i pushed them up to 1.65 EC, but this pic is from right before all this happened

 

[WheeloFortune]

Holy Shit i took a lot of pictures on DAY 17 FLOWER!!!

damn, this will be the last one for today. . . I cant do anymore.

ok, these are kinda jumbled up, so I'm gonna break them up in case i lose it somehow.


Here are some wheel shots:

The wheel res is looking good after the flush! Here, the wheel is full, the pump is on, and the water level is just high enough to submerge the pump. . . the bubbles are the return from the flood tray splashing back into the res. The controller was already on drain and drained the wheel res. when the wheel is done feeding, the pump will turn off and the 6-7 gallons of water in the flood tray will empty back down into this res, flowing back into the controller and dumped back into the 55 gal. drum till the next feed cycle.

mmmmm, airationnnnn

 

[The Butcher]

I love the pict of the E&G under the M.H. and the Wheel Looks amazing.