Emmie's Perpetual Vegetative Grow Rooms - 2020-2021

I’ve been using paper towel, in an open ziplock, on a paper plate, on top of the water heater. I leave a little puddle to act as the glass of water. By the time the water evaporates, I have a tail. Some require a spritz. I’m new, but I’m like 10 for 10ish.
that sounds like a nice warm spot, I'll have to feel my water heater for temp when someones using the hot water to see if I can trust it.. Nice suggestion!, So far we have Clothes Dryer, Computer, Stereo Amp, and Water Heater as warming stations- substitute heating pads..
 
that sounds like a nice warm spot, I'll have to feel my water heater for temp and see if I can trust it.. Nice suggestion!, So far we have washer-Dryer, Computer, Stereo Amp, and Water Heater as warming stations- substitute heating pads..
Well yeah I guess I should’ve mentioned that I double ply the good paper plates and quadruple the cheapies. You’ll have to use your best judgment. Consistent heat source though.
 
Well yeah I guess I should’ve mentioned that I double ply the good paper plates and quadruple the cheapies. You’ll have to use your best judgment. Consistent heat source though.
No, It's Ok , suggstions are always good..I think I'm going to go with a large Tupperware microwave safe plastic lid..The thickness feels good not too thick, or too thin and think bottom will have no trouble staying warm but not hot.. I think that's what we're shooting for here.. a sort of incubator. Could even set a folded dish cloth under it if I think its transfering too much heat to the plate.. These are things you have to figure out in the moment so good to have all these options available..
 
No, It's Ok , suggstions are always good..I think I'm going to go with a large Tupperware microwave safe plastic lid..The thickness feels good not too thick, or too thin and think bottom will have no trouble staying warm but not hot.. I think that's what we're shooting for here.. a sort of incubator.
Sounds good to me, give it a try. I just use paper plates cause it worked. I’d imagine a lot of things would.
 
The Kosher Daddy's that I planted still have not found the surface. I so hate this stage of the grow... I really need to get better at this seed starting thing. I haven't started any others yet... trying to patiently see the results of this experiment.
I'm with you sitting on needles and pins waiting.. Seeds are expensive and to get limited or no germination from them blows.. Should be a very simple-easy repeatable process.. Personally I wouldn't be dropping any more seeds from your personal seed stash until you get solid repeated back to back germinations.. But it does sound like 2 of the procedures are working. Water jar and wet folded napkin are producing tails. It may be the 3rd phase Soil, Light, First Drink where something is going wrong.. I remember you had success putting solo cups on the window ledge, so thinking lighting may be too strong for germination in the veg room? just spit balling here? But I think if you are still struggling to germinate after this, go buy a 5 pack of very fresh seeds to see if age is really the problem or not?
 
Wtf? How about not share your inner thoughts and just say “That looks sweet!” Super easy.
Yeah that's for sure. And it's only a veg room. Nobody cares or puts much effort into a veg room. I'm sure her bud room is top quality. Theirs no point in putting money into a veg room unless you just got money you need to blow. Your veg room is perfect. WAY better than mine and mine are kicking ass.
 
On top of the fridge = warm spot.
Paper plates sound scary to me, bleach and who knows what else.
Hydrogen peroxide for germinating old seeds <--- google that for more info, I posted a 6 minute video on that somewhere in this forum... can't find it.

Personally I will not do paper towel, soak & plant is my preferred method. Wouldn't a clean hanky be better than the paper towel? Put the corner of the hanky in a lower dish of water and wick away?

I'm a long time enthusiast, amateur grower.
 
On top of the fridge = warm spot.
Paper plates sound scary to me, bleach and who knows what else.
Hydrogen peroxide for germinating old seeds <--- google that for more info, I posted a 6 minute video on that somewhere in this forum... can't find it.

Personally I will not do paper towel, soak & plant is my preferred method. Wouldn't a clean hanky be better than the paper towel? Put the corner of the hanky in a lower dish of water and wick away?

I'm a long time enthusiast, amateur grower.
Well good on the refrigerator thing.. Lets add it to the list of incubation areas!..( although its suggested germination take place in a dark room, not a cabinet, and opening the fridge door at night may shock-confuse germinating seeds so care has to be taken.)
I Agree on the paper plates having bleach in them but may not matter all that much if seeds are germinating in an open ziplock and not making contact with the plate directly.. Paper towel is used because the seeds like running their tails through the paper fibers and fools them into thinking they are in a soil medium.. I Dont think a cloth hankie will provide that..Cloth fibers in a hankerchief are more tightly woven.
 
I skip the paper towel lately. 5/1 distilled water/ 3% h2o2 to float for 16-24 hours, then straight into trusted medium in the final pot, in the grow area where it's warm. I add about 1 drop of superthrive to that same water and make a circle around the seed with it (the rest of the soil is already a good med moisture before I do this)
9 of the last 10 sprouted, with my autos it might even give me an extra day.
Not sure if you have tried that already or want advice from me lol, but it works for me now, and I was always a paper towel guy.
 
Thank you everyone for the excellent discussion so far on germination... we are learning a great deal here. It seems that many of us have hit on a method that works for us, and I too have had periods of time where I couldn't miss... my method was right on. But then, you change something little, and without realizing why, your success rate goes way down. This is where I am at right now...

But we are doing this to figure things out, and figure it out we will. Based on the discussion last night, I left my baggie open today while I went to work, and on checking it this afternoon I found that indeed the top of the paper towel had dried out. Clinging to the baggie though was a bit of water and one of the seeds, and it had grown a half inch root in the last 8 hours! That is 5 out of 7 so far that has germinated and I think I see a 6th one starting up too.

So we know that it is important to let the paper towel's surface get dry... or at least dryer than soaking wet, and maybe the air gap is important too.

Then there is the planting itself... how exactly is it done correctly? Root up? Root down? Pointy end of the seed down? Everything horizontal? And then, how deep?

I have been going about an inch deep. Somewhere I read that this was optimum so that there was enough soil to plow through that it loosened the husk. Old wive's tale? I don't know for sure. I have been going pointy end of the seed, down, because in nature that is how they naturally fall. It is also the easiest way to drop the rooting seed into a tall one inch hole... it naturally falls in, root up, pointy end down.

Something however is gnawing at me, telling me that the easy way is never the best way. I also had a J-root on the Deep Cheese. Something is not right in this section of Missouri. The Kosher Daddy that I planted today got a different treatment. Instead of a hole I made a one inch deep trough, and I laid her in there, horizontally. Lets see if she comes up faster than the others do.

Then, after the reading today I determined that you are probably right, and that mother nature's way is probably the best of all... and why mess with all these additional steps where we can do silly human being things to these seeds? When we mist the soil a couple of times a day, we take advantage of the buffer qualities of the soil. The seeds get wet, but the water slowly receeds, bringing in oxygen behind it. In the soil, there is the added advantage that the direction of the water is downward, enticing the root to follow, and giving the seed something to orient itself on.

I have dunked 4 Fem Durban Poison seeds and they are all floating in some spring water. In 24 hours, I will be planting them, one pointy end up, one pointy end down, and two horizontally, all one inch deep. Let's see if we get a faster and stronger response and if we can tell any difference as to the orientation of the seed when we plant it.
 
Idk Emilya, I got to go with seed age and soil strength. I think a lot of it is luck too. Once it gets a tail, it would seem to me at that point it’s left up to the seed and soil. The strong ones will make it through non perfect soil and the weak ones won’t. I know one thing from this discussion, I have just enough original Roots soil left from last time for 5 solo cups. That’s what I’ll be using. What I will do differently is let the water set out 24hrs and rinse the towels. We got a new water heater too, so hopefully that’ll be the same...always something. We’ll see how my luck goes, I’ll be dropping them in a few days.
 
Thank you everyone for the excellent discussion so far on germination... we are learning a great deal here. It seems that many of us have hit on a method that works for us, and I too have had periods of time where I couldn't miss... my method was right on. But then, you change something little, and without realizing why, your success rate goes way down. This is where I am at right now...

But we are doing this to figure things out, and figure it out we will. Based on the discussion last night, I left my baggie open today while I went to work, and on checking it this afternoon I found that indeed the top of the paper towel had dried out. Clinging to the baggie though was a bit of water and one of the seeds, and it had grown a half inch root in the last 8 hours! That is 5 out of 7 so far that has germinated and I think I see a 6th one starting up too.

So we know that it is important to let the paper towel's surface get dry... or at least dryer than soaking wet, and maybe the air gap is important too.

Then there is the planting itself... how exactly is it done correctly? Root up? Root down? Pointy end of the seed down? Everything horizontal? And then, how deep?

I have been going about an inch deep. Somewhere I read that this was optimum so that there was enough soil to plow through that it loosened the husk. Old wive's tale? I don't know for sure. I have been going pointy end of the seed, down, because in nature that is how they naturally fall. It is also the easiest way to drop the rooting seed into a tall one inch hole... it naturally falls in, root up, pointy end down.

Something however is gnawing at me, telling me that the easy way is never the best way. I also had a J-root on the Deep Cheese. Something is not right in this section of Missouri. The Kosher Daddy that I planted today got a different treatment. Instead of a hole I made a one inch deep trough, and I laid her in there, horizontally. Lets see if she comes up faster than the others do.

Then, after the reading today I determined that you are probably right, and that mother nature's way is probably the best of all... and why mess with all these additional steps where we can do silly human being things to these seeds? When we mist the soil a couple of times a day, we take advantage of the buffer qualities of the soil. The seeds get wet, but the water slowly receeds, bringing in oxygen behind it. In the soil, there is the added advantage that the direction of the water is downward, enticing the root to follow, and giving the seed something to orient itself on.

I have dunked 4 Fem Durban Poison seeds and they are all floating in some spring water. In 24 hours, I will be planting them, one pointy end up, one pointy end down, and two horizontally, all one inch deep. Let's see if we get a faster and stronger response and if we can tell any difference as to the orientation of the seed when we plant it.

I believe, at least in my case of horrible germination luck on my current grow that it all came down to oxygen. I was soaking my rooters without squeezing significant water back out and my seeds simply drowned. When I went back to squeezing the rooter before I put in the seed and having it in a humid and warm environmment but not sitting in water, things popped right out.
 
I believe, at least in my case of horrible germination luck on my current grow that it all came down to oxygen. I was soaking my rooters without squeezing significant water back out and my seeds simply drowned. When I went back to squeezing the rooter before I put in the seed and having it in a humid and warm environmment but not sitting in water, things popped right out.
That's probably how I screwed up jiffy rooters too... I had them soaking wet.
 
I have been going about an inch deep. Somewhere I read that this was optimum so that there was enough soil to plow through that it loosened the husk. Old wive's tale?

No. Friction. Drape something like a paper towel, wash cloth, etc. over your hand. Cover hand with something that isn't too heavy; the sheet/blanket/bedspread on your bed might work for this. Move hand in one direction and notice that the paper towel (etc.) tends to stay on your hand. Move it in the opposite direction and notice that the friction of the covers (etc.) acts to remove it. It's the same principle.

Too deep, and the plant uses too much of its finite onboard energy supply. Too shallow, and there isn't enough "travel distance" to help remove the seed case, and that's one of the factors that can end up requiring the gardener to remove it manually.

I'll not hazard a guess as to the actual optimum planting depth. "4x the seed's diameter" seems to be a common recommendation when planting things in general. I don't know whether this is based on any kind of science or merely an easy to remember metric intended to prevent the average gardener from planting tiny seeds way too deep and (relatively) huge seeds way too shallow.

I used to just make a hole and drop the seed in. In recent years, though, I've tried to ensure that I didn't plant the seeds much more than the "4x its diameter" suggestion. Now that I think about it, though... I've occasionally had to remove a seed case from a seedling - and I never used to have to do that. I think I'll go back to just making a hole and dropping the seed in :p.

I like it when the root comes out from the top - and immediately makes a u-turn and heads downward. <SHRUGS> But I'm not going to get anal about seed orientation. I've not got the OCD thing, so that would feel too much like work for me. Those who are so afflicted probably make better gardeners than I do, lol. Plus, I'm pretty "burnt" and never can remember which way the seed has to be for that pattern of initial root growth to occur, and have to look it up every time I decide to worry about it. Once I manage to get something into long-term memory, it tends to stick but, wow, it sure is difficult to get to that point. I don't mean sometimes, either. I used to do a lot of interior house painting and I'd regularly get lost. Empty house, where I wasn't worried about the homeowner, I'd head to the bathroom and end up in the other end of the house, or to the front door to carry in the rest of the supplies and end up in the kitchen half the time. Occupied house? The guy I painted with always knew when I headed to the bathroom, because I'd have to ask him for directions. Every time. Probably end up with dementia and no one will notice for the first two or three years :rolleyes: . Er... I ramble.

The seeds get wet, but the water slowly receeds, bringing in oxygen behind it. In the soil, there is the added advantage that the direction of the water is downward, enticing the root to follow, and giving the seed something to orient itself on.

Roots grow downward - and stems grow upward - in general, due to gravity. With the former, it's called geotropism; with the latter, it's referred to as negative geotropism. Consider gravity to be the stimulus that provokes the behavior. The auxin that actually causes it is indoleacetic acid. No, I didn't pull that from memory :rofl: . Well, not my memory - I have a pretty substantial (and varied) set of bookmarks in the web browser. Here are some of them:











NOTE: Above links not guaranteed to be in agreement with each other (or, for that matter, reality). Nor are they guaranteed to be of use to you. If not, I hope you'll forgive the post.

As a bit of a personal disclaimer, I have (at various times), pre-soaked seeds in tap water, dechlorinated tap water, tap water to which I've added some 3% H2O2 (which also dechlorinated the water), tap water after first swirling them around (for 30 seconds and less) in 3% H2O2, a very weak solution of Neptune's Harvest Organic Seaweed Plant Fertilizer (0-0-1, from Ascophyllum Nodosum), a very weak solution of Neptune's Harvest Organic Fish & Seaweed Plant Fertilizer (didn't bother to go reread the label), a very weak solution of Olivia's Cloning Solution (didn't bother to reread the label), and a very weak solution of Dragon (brand) Plant Starter with Vitamin B1 and Chelated Iron (I think it's 3-12-4, but I'm not positive, because it's probably older than half the forum members, from the mid-'80s at a guess, and its label is somewhat faded). Also a weak solution of "something or other from SNS that I do not remember the name of." I couldn't say whether one thing worked significantly better than another. The overall impression I got was that either whichever one(s) I tried at the time worked... or none of them did. I concluded that the important thing was... water. And whether the seeds were actually viable. I suppose that germination/seedling aids are a lot like the gizmos and liquids/powders intended to aid in rooting one's cuttings; they probably do have some ability to help, on average - but for most people, most of the time, are completely unnecessary. Because, unless we've completely screwed up the species (and we haven't with this one)... if any of that stuff was really required, the species would have died out many thousands of years ago ;) .

I used to do the dampened paper towel thing, because I was worried about "drowning the seed." But I'm a bit of a klutz and half-blind, too, so I switched to a cup/glass of water. I still worried about "drowning," though. Until (add "forgetful" to everything else) one day, when I remembered that I had chucked a few seeds in "a week or two" previously, ran in to check on them - and found some very tiny seedlings in the water. They'd been like that long enough to have lost much of their green color. I confessed this to Susan (aka SweetSue) as she was the person that gave the seeds to me. She basically just laughed and told me to try growing them because they might still be alive. For some of them, she was correct. So now I don't worry about it, within reason. Relatively fresh seeds that have been stored at cool temperatures seem to work 100% of the time (or very nearly so). Older seeds that I've been given by other people who stored them at room temperature, and that I kept upstairs (where it's miserably hot in the warmer months) have been far more of a crap shoot, even when I sanded them lightly with an emery board or sandpaper in hopes that it would make it easier for moisture to enter the seed case. I think placing those into the refrigerator for a period of time immediately prior to attempting to germinate/sprout them might have helped, but am not sure because my refrigerator quit working shortly after deciding to start trying this.
 
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