Curly Beaver
Well-Known Member
Beautiful coloring!
Emmie's Organic Garden Using Advanced Lighting Techniques
- Thread starter Emilya Green
- Start date
Great choice of subject matter for your picture Emilya
I love the growth I am seeing on your gals
And wile you have burst onto the scene as you put it, I am very glad you did, you are such a perfect fit to go with the rest of the wonderful people here.
I love the growth I am seeing on your gals
And wile you have burst onto the scene as you put it, I am very glad you did, you are such a perfect fit to go with the rest of the wonderful people here.
- Thread starter
- #83
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
converting to flowers fast... but not ridiculously fast... I expect to announce that full flower has officially started about a week after the switch... maybe 3 or 4 days faster than normal? You decide:
I've never tried GLR but I can't see they are transitioning to flower quicker than usual. Not a problem since GLR lowers the power bill but I see pistils after a few days and early flowering after about a week.- Thread starter
- #85
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I have to agree Major... It did seem with the boys that they transitioned very fast, but that is what boys do too...
The girls seems to be going through the change at about the normal rate, and maybe just a tad enthusiastically. Looking in on them this morning I saw nothing remarkable, just a normal change to flower. While it is remarkable that the extra hour of GLR keeps them solidly in veg, the switch appears to be happening in the normal week to 10 days.
One thing I am noting however is an apparent lack of a lot of stretch. It is either the close light or GLR, but there might be less stretch than normal on this run. I am still not even halfway through that process though, so the jury is still out on this, and of course there is one plant getting some size on it, blowing that theory. I will say however that even if it doesn't promote a faster transition, or has no effect on stretch, GLR is still exciting because of its savings in electricity. I have to also think that with the extra rest periods each day, that the plants are somehow stronger than they would have been under 18/6. There are so many unknowns here, but I am marveling as to the trunk size and the strength of the branches... these are going to be some of the strongest plants I have grown for a long time, if not the strongest ever in my garden.
At any rate... it works! GLR has been a very interesting success in my tents. I will continue to use it.
- Thread starter
- #86
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Time for an update...
First the obligatory garden shot and a side view of the stretch:
Tonight finds the girls 8 days into flower, and I find nothing remarkable about the conversion after the switch or the stretch that still has about another week to go. The fast growing AK appear to be almost in full bloom as of this morning and the TD and GC are appearing to be needing a very normal 10 days to make the switch. As far as I can see at this point in the grow, the 12-1 or Gas Lantern Routine has no effect on switch time or stretch.
Here are a couple of the buds this morning, almost there...
In the veg tent another mini experiment has been going on; using the same exact method of cloning, I have been comparing number of days before seeing roots using 24/0 lighting compared to 18/6. Under 18/6 I had a 98% success rate and saw first roots on early ones at 7 days, more than half by 8 days and only a few that took as long as 10 days.
This time under 24/0 the first early roots showed at 8 days with about a third taking 9 and 10 days, and still almost half, that are going to take even longer. Apparently a rest period is beneficial for clones in order to send out roots. I love it when carefully designed experiments actually teach us something useful in the garden.
So far none of the clones have died and those showing roots have been moved into solo cups filled with super soil in the lower third, base soil above. The upper part of the humidity dome is still in place and as each plant establishes itself, I will begin to harden them off one by one.
A note also about the supersoil storage bin, where the soil for the next big run is cooking. The two male plants that I chopped up a week or so ago were added to that bin to be converted back into soil. I was amazed how fast this happens in this strong mix. As I dug around in there today to get soil for my solo cups it was hard to even find parts of those plants any more, the living soil is converting organic matter that fast! This soil, now mixed with parts of this previous run has already gotten better than it started and has cooked longer than the last batch too, so it makes sense that it will be that much better to grow in. I am loving this organic supersoil method so far, and I can see that my plants do too.
So now the main experiment going on flower is seeing the effect of the combination of the 3 hours at noon of dual spectrum, multi-source light at 1260 watts, and watching the effect of reducing the total light period by 15 minutes each week. We just switched to the second week of the 10 week sliding lighting schedule yesterday, and the lights are now at 11.25/12.75
The next thing I am going to work on as we wait for harvest is working with these next clones, where I am going to practice making shorter and better producing plants, using even more aggressive training techniques than I have ever felt comfortable doing. I feel that for the first time I know exactly how I want to shape my plants for optimum production and have a plan to get it accomplished. We shall find out together if it works, most likely in another grow log.
Never stop experimenting... never stop learning.
Emmie
First the obligatory garden shot and a side view of the stretch:
Tonight finds the girls 8 days into flower, and I find nothing remarkable about the conversion after the switch or the stretch that still has about another week to go. The fast growing AK appear to be almost in full bloom as of this morning and the TD and GC are appearing to be needing a very normal 10 days to make the switch. As far as I can see at this point in the grow, the 12-1 or Gas Lantern Routine has no effect on switch time or stretch.
Here are a couple of the buds this morning, almost there...
In the veg tent another mini experiment has been going on; using the same exact method of cloning, I have been comparing number of days before seeing roots using 24/0 lighting compared to 18/6. Under 18/6 I had a 98% success rate and saw first roots on early ones at 7 days, more than half by 8 days and only a few that took as long as 10 days.
This time under 24/0 the first early roots showed at 8 days with about a third taking 9 and 10 days, and still almost half, that are going to take even longer. Apparently a rest period is beneficial for clones in order to send out roots. I love it when carefully designed experiments actually teach us something useful in the garden.
So far none of the clones have died and those showing roots have been moved into solo cups filled with super soil in the lower third, base soil above. The upper part of the humidity dome is still in place and as each plant establishes itself, I will begin to harden them off one by one.
A note also about the supersoil storage bin, where the soil for the next big run is cooking. The two male plants that I chopped up a week or so ago were added to that bin to be converted back into soil. I was amazed how fast this happens in this strong mix. As I dug around in there today to get soil for my solo cups it was hard to even find parts of those plants any more, the living soil is converting organic matter that fast! This soil, now mixed with parts of this previous run has already gotten better than it started and has cooked longer than the last batch too, so it makes sense that it will be that much better to grow in. I am loving this organic supersoil method so far, and I can see that my plants do too.
So now the main experiment going on flower is seeing the effect of the combination of the 3 hours at noon of dual spectrum, multi-source light at 1260 watts, and watching the effect of reducing the total light period by 15 minutes each week. We just switched to the second week of the 10 week sliding lighting schedule yesterday, and the lights are now at 11.25/12.75
The next thing I am going to work on as we wait for harvest is working with these next clones, where I am going to practice making shorter and better producing plants, using even more aggressive training techniques than I have ever felt comfortable doing. I feel that for the first time I know exactly how I want to shape my plants for optimum production and have a plan to get it accomplished. We shall find out together if it works, most likely in another grow log.
Never stop experimenting... never stop learning.
Emmie
Kriaze
Well-Known Member
Excellent experiments all round Emilya, it's great that you would share this knowledge so that in turn people can understand more and more about these plants. I thank you for letting me share in this. All the best
- Thread starter
- #88
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
(flower, day 3)
(clones, day 14)
Greetings everyone, I hope you are having a good Tuesday.
I have officially declared Sunday as the first official day of flower here in Emmie's garden and all seems to be going well. I raised the lights a bit again yesterday, with the tallest AK nudging up to around 4" away from the glass... we don't need to get crazy with this. The stretch should end this week and looking at the room still available, it looks like we are going to be ok.
I will say that the addition of the second 600w light, even for only 3 hours a day, has caused a dramatic uptake in water usage and nutritional needs. Watering is being required at least every 3 days, and I think this next time it will have gone down to every other day. I have also had to top dress the soil with a layer of supersoil already, to deal with a bit of a nitrogen/potassium deficiency beginning to show in the lower growth. The green is coming back, and I am considering a regular compost tea if this continues to be a problem.
Here is a picture of the garden about an hour after lights out, everyone already tucking down for their rest.
In the veg tent I am still working with my clones. It has now been 14 days and 88% (15 of 17) clones have shown roots and have been planted in soil. The last two clones are still standing, still showing green and I am confident will also show roots soon. The lighting has been changed to 18/6 to help hurry this process, having proven that 24/0 light is not as effective as 18/6 in convincing clones to throw out roots. Once I have all the clones in soil and showing new growth, I will start the process of hardening them off out of their individual humidity domes.
Be well everyone,
Em
(clones, day 14)
Greetings everyone, I hope you are having a good Tuesday.
I have officially declared Sunday as the first official day of flower here in Emmie's garden and all seems to be going well. I raised the lights a bit again yesterday, with the tallest AK nudging up to around 4" away from the glass... we don't need to get crazy with this. The stretch should end this week and looking at the room still available, it looks like we are going to be ok.
I will say that the addition of the second 600w light, even for only 3 hours a day, has caused a dramatic uptake in water usage and nutritional needs. Watering is being required at least every 3 days, and I think this next time it will have gone down to every other day. I have also had to top dress the soil with a layer of supersoil already, to deal with a bit of a nitrogen/potassium deficiency beginning to show in the lower growth. The green is coming back, and I am considering a regular compost tea if this continues to be a problem.
Here is a picture of the garden about an hour after lights out, everyone already tucking down for their rest.
In the veg tent I am still working with my clones. It has now been 14 days and 88% (15 of 17) clones have shown roots and have been planted in soil. The last two clones are still standing, still showing green and I am confident will also show roots soon. The lighting has been changed to 18/6 to help hurry this process, having proven that 24/0 light is not as effective as 18/6 in convincing clones to throw out roots. Once I have all the clones in soil and showing new growth, I will start the process of hardening them off out of their individual humidity domes.
Be well everyone,
Em
Emmie, thanks for this thread! Geat stuff so far! You seemed a little dejected that the flowering didn't happen faster that usual, but by my account, this was a complete success since I thought the primary reason for GLR was the savings in the electric bill? In any event, well done! I will be trying the double cup method of cloning I see you using. It's something new to me. I will say that I did try 24-0 and 18-6 on cloning and came to the same conclusions you did. Sleep is definitely something they need to properly root. I'm wondering how the cup method will work using rockwool.
Anyhoo, glad I found this thread. Caught on to you as you were giving out some extent advice to someone else and had to see where it came from! :
: I may not have much to offer here, but I'm here to learn. Looking forward to the show, Em.
Andy 
- Thread starter
- #90
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
(flower, day 9)
There is a lot going on here, even though it doesn't look like it. Pollination (phase 1) has been completed and it looks like all of the buds took... we will follow that on my working with pollen thread.
Here in flower I am learning some important lessons. First lessons are regarding organic soil and the feeding of robust plants in a robust growing environment. A couple of lessons have been learned here. First of all, I hurried my cooking a bit. The soil baked for about a month... maybe closer to 3 weeks, before I started to use it. I didn't start it in time, and thought that it wouldn't matter so much, especially since I would be reusing this soil over and over again... right?
Wrong. You gotta let this stuff break down a bit before your grow -- 2 or 3 months. Lesson learned. My next soil will have been cooking for about 3 months by the time it gets used... it might be able to supply enough nutrients to support huge plants with 20 colas... time will tell.
But then to compound the problem, right along with this lesson in impatience, was the assumption that I could support these plants, in this growing situation, in 5 gallon final containers. Dumb again. I am considering at least 7.5 if not 10 gallons for the next run. If you want the plant to live on soil, give it soil Ms. Frugal... sometimes I am too cheap for my own good.
And then, here is the third big lesson just learned in Emmie's garden... I have put together a very effective growing situation here. I not only am supplying a huge amount of carefully directed, multi spectrum, multi source light to these plants, but I am also supplying an equally huge amount of air. Each minute of every day, almost 3x the volume of the air in my tent is replaced. These plants can breathe as if they were in the great outdoors. Their water use is off the scale, bone dry and needing to be watered every 3 days. Of course my plants are in hyperdrive because of this and as a result, I am now having the most classic and most illuminating undernute problem going on that I have ever seen. I am seeing a classic yellowing, starting at the bottom and systematically working its way up, keeping the new growth green. The plants are all screaming at me... feed me... feed me! Feed me Seymour!
So first I tried a compost tea ... some effect could be seen... I could see I was on the right track... but still the complaints could be heard.
So, I tried a top dressing... some more effect was seen, and I will be doing it again, (with some of the well cooked soil)... but still, muffled screams from the starving roots could be heard throughout the next 3 days.
Then, I totally abandoned the plan of only giving water this entire run and tried a full round of Jack's... hmmm... screaming stopped, but still massive complaining going on... no signs of burning, or any other deficiency either.
Next, I will be trying a double dose of Jack's... fully 2/3 of the outdoor recommended dosage. Never have I seen an indoor plant this hungry. I like it... I am learning from it... but my god. I am sure that I am on the right track here... but please, if you are planning to go organic, and if you plan on producing super sized super producing plants, please learn from my well documented mistakes here in this grow log.
Live and learn my friends... and listen to your plants. They do tell you what they need if you just slow down to listen. When you see problems, check your assumptions, usually at least one of them is wrong.
Blessings everyone,
Em
There is a lot going on here, even though it doesn't look like it. Pollination (phase 1) has been completed and it looks like all of the buds took... we will follow that on my working with pollen thread.
Here in flower I am learning some important lessons. First lessons are regarding organic soil and the feeding of robust plants in a robust growing environment. A couple of lessons have been learned here. First of all, I hurried my cooking a bit. The soil baked for about a month... maybe closer to 3 weeks, before I started to use it. I didn't start it in time, and thought that it wouldn't matter so much, especially since I would be reusing this soil over and over again... right?
Wrong. You gotta let this stuff break down a bit before your grow -- 2 or 3 months. Lesson learned. My next soil will have been cooking for about 3 months by the time it gets used... it might be able to supply enough nutrients to support huge plants with 20 colas... time will tell.
But then to compound the problem, right along with this lesson in impatience, was the assumption that I could support these plants, in this growing situation, in 5 gallon final containers. Dumb again. I am considering at least 7.5 if not 10 gallons for the next run. If you want the plant to live on soil, give it soil Ms. Frugal... sometimes I am too cheap for my own good.
And then, here is the third big lesson just learned in Emmie's garden... I have put together a very effective growing situation here. I not only am supplying a huge amount of carefully directed, multi spectrum, multi source light to these plants, but I am also supplying an equally huge amount of air. Each minute of every day, almost 3x the volume of the air in my tent is replaced. These plants can breathe as if they were in the great outdoors. Their water use is off the scale, bone dry and needing to be watered every 3 days. Of course my plants are in hyperdrive because of this and as a result, I am now having the most classic and most illuminating undernute problem going on that I have ever seen. I am seeing a classic yellowing, starting at the bottom and systematically working its way up, keeping the new growth green. The plants are all screaming at me... feed me... feed me! Feed me Seymour!
So first I tried a compost tea ... some effect could be seen... I could see I was on the right track... but still the complaints could be heard.
So, I tried a top dressing... some more effect was seen, and I will be doing it again, (with some of the well cooked soil)... but still, muffled screams from the starving roots could be heard throughout the next 3 days.
Then, I totally abandoned the plan of only giving water this entire run and tried a full round of Jack's... hmmm... screaming stopped, but still massive complaining going on... no signs of burning, or any other deficiency either.
Next, I will be trying a double dose of Jack's... fully 2/3 of the outdoor recommended dosage. Never have I seen an indoor plant this hungry. I like it... I am learning from it... but my god. I am sure that I am on the right track here... but please, if you are planning to go organic, and if you plan on producing super sized super producing plants, please learn from my well documented mistakes here in this grow log.
Live and learn my friends... and listen to your plants. They do tell you what they need if you just slow down to listen. When you see problems, check your assumptions, usually at least one of them is wrong.
Blessings everyone,
Em
- Thread starter
- #91
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I will be trying the double cup method of cloning I see you using. It's something new to me. I will say that I did try 24-0 and 18-6 on cloning and came to the same conclusions you did. Sleep is definitely something they need to properly root. I'm wondering how the cup method will work using rockwool.
Anyhoo, glad I found this thread. Caught on to you as you were giving out some extent advice to someone else and had to see where it came from! :
I may not have much to offer here, but I'm here to learn. Looking forward to the show, Em.
Thanks regarding the 12-1... I agree, that experiment went very well and I will be using it again. The next time however, I am going to play with that 36 hours of dark before flower thing, and see if it speeds up the transition any.
Regarding the clones... the last two never did put out roots and last night, 20 days into the experiment, they went into the compost bin. The other 15 are still going, now in soil and most of the strongest ones are now getting hardened off. Lesson learned in cloning on this run too... Don't cut the top growth when you are cutting leaves in half. Dumb mistake... really stunted these things taking off, and its a miracle so many are surviving my mistake.
Thank you for your compliment about my advice giving... I do some dumb things too, make no mistake about that. But I also do a lot of experimenting and documenting what I learn... and then if I have learned something and am sure of my facts, I can advise on it. You may note that I don't get into a lot of the really technical stuff, cause essentially I am still a novice at this. This is why I like grow logs so much... its sort of like getting naked... everyone can see what you got, flaws and all, and it should be clear that I am just here learning too.
Be well Andy... thanks for looking in
Hi Em, great update. It is when things go slightly off center that we learn the most. It was hard for me starting out this grow in a journal. You feel so naked! After a couple year break I had decided to just use old root filled verm/perlite mix that I had sitting around and boy did it wreak havok with my pH as the roots started to decompose. My starting soil was lacking in water holding capacity as well which almost forced me to overwater in the beginning. My pale leafed seedlings told the whole story. But it was in a journal. It kind of makes you try harder you know? Well on to transplant I fixed the issues with added peat and the use of cannazyme and things have been better. I have been trying not to invest too much in media or additives as all of this will be replaced by high Brix living soil.
I like your update because I am a week behind you in flip, my first day after darkness was on the 18th. So it is like seeing into the near future! And now my high Brix soil has finished cooking and I am moving back towards organic in my garden. I enjoy this community as you do. It is great fun to grow together with such a support group. In a way it is a disappointment to have to add nutrients to your water only grow but you are teaching flexibility of attitude and the need to listen to the plants. You may save someone's future harvest that way or change their ideas.
I will probably switch veg to GLR in the summertime to help with heat issues. Seeing success with it in many people's grows has been illuminating.
All the best to you!
-Shiggy
So kudos. Your plants look great and I am sure the added nutes will fix the issues. Can't wait to see the actual nugs emerge.
I like your update because I am a week behind you in flip, my first day after darkness was on the 18th. So it is like seeing into the near future! And now my high Brix soil has finished cooking and I am moving back towards organic in my garden. I enjoy this community as you do. It is great fun to grow together with such a support group. In a way it is a disappointment to have to add nutrients to your water only grow but you are teaching flexibility of attitude and the need to listen to the plants. You may save someone's future harvest that way or change their ideas.
I will probably switch veg to GLR in the summertime to help with heat issues. Seeing success with it in many people's grows has been illuminating.
All the best to you!
-Shiggy
So kudos. Your plants look great and I am sure the added nutes will fix the issues. Can't wait to see the actual nugs emerge.
- Thread starter
- #93
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Isn't that the truth! I am definitely learning a lot this round and definitely not any longer doing a purely organic grow... there is a lot of good stuff in my soil to be sure... but it seems that without an active microherd, it is all just going to sit there not doing any good.
Live and learn they say!
Glad to hear you got your garden back on track Emilya,
- Thread starter
- #95
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Time for an update!
(flower, day 17) lights this week are at 10:45/13:15
I am seeing very strong growth in the tent right now, and the nutes that the two biggest plants are demanding are at almost outdoor levels. Last watering I gave 2x the regular indoor dosage of 1tsp of Jack's per gallon. This brought the two smaller plants back into a healthy state and both plants have dramatically greened up and stopped yellowing from the bottom. The two larger plants however are still screaming for more nutrients and when they wake up this evening, they will be getting the full outdoor dosage of 1tbs per gallon. This is amazing me, and never have I had such hungry plants in my grow tents.
I attribute this to the second light and the massive air movement and possibly by the gradual slide into winter lighting conditions. The plants are absolutely loving something I am doing, and it obviously has nothing to do with the nutes or the dead but very organic soil I have them sitting in. Whatever it is, the plants seem to think they are outside, and they are going to town. I have never seen buds like this, this early.
Regarding the organic soil... I am investing in a proper air pump to be able to make the needed compost tea to activate my soil in the future. The use of Jacks has pretty much killed the herd on this run I guess, but I will go into the next round much better prepared and hopefully with my first living soil... unfortunately this time, I failed to understand all the steps needed to get to that point.
Without further ado, here are some bud shots and much better color. We are making progress.
Tangerine Dream
Green Crack
AK-47 #1
AK-47 #2
(flower, day 17) lights this week are at 10:45/13:15
I am seeing very strong growth in the tent right now, and the nutes that the two biggest plants are demanding are at almost outdoor levels. Last watering I gave 2x the regular indoor dosage of 1tsp of Jack's per gallon. This brought the two smaller plants back into a healthy state and both plants have dramatically greened up and stopped yellowing from the bottom. The two larger plants however are still screaming for more nutrients and when they wake up this evening, they will be getting the full outdoor dosage of 1tbs per gallon. This is amazing me, and never have I had such hungry plants in my grow tents.
I attribute this to the second light and the massive air movement and possibly by the gradual slide into winter lighting conditions. The plants are absolutely loving something I am doing, and it obviously has nothing to do with the nutes or the dead but very organic soil I have them sitting in. Whatever it is, the plants seem to think they are outside, and they are going to town. I have never seen buds like this, this early.
Regarding the organic soil... I am investing in a proper air pump to be able to make the needed compost tea to activate my soil in the future. The use of Jacks has pretty much killed the herd on this run I guess, but I will go into the next round much better prepared and hopefully with my first living soil... unfortunately this time, I failed to understand all the steps needed to get to that point.
Without further ado, here are some bud shots and much better color. We are making progress.
Tangerine Dream
Green Crack
AK-47 #1
AK-47 #2
- Thread starter
- #96
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
This is crazy... First, they took the full load of nutes without a complaint... no clawing, just a satisfying green showing up to replace the yellowing. Second, it is day 18 and already the big AK is getting so heavy she is starting to have troubles holding herself up. I brought out the first of many plant stakes this morning... this is getting serious! Already getting quite sticky in there too, trichomes starting to pile in. I think they like the lighting.
Also, got to show off my new fungus gnat catching station. Thank's to Wee'zard out there on the big island, a slight modification of his idea, and presto... a long sticky yellow fly strip, with no sticky Emily or leaves. I can sit it in the middle of the plants vertically or I can lay it across the tops of the buckets horizontally. This is one of the best ideas I have seen for a while and I now share it with my friends here:
Also, got to show off my new fungus gnat catching station. Thank's to Wee'zard out there on the big island, a slight modification of his idea, and presto... a long sticky yellow fly strip, with no sticky Emily or leaves. I can sit it in the middle of the plants vertically or I can lay it across the tops of the buckets horizontally. This is one of the best ideas I have seen for a while and I now share it with my friends here:
Things are looking very excellent Em, how many days since flip? I know you mean 18 days since visible flowering started but I am curious the total time in 12/12 or less light.
- Thread starter
- #98
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Thanks Shig! For me, visible flowering and actually full on flowering are different, but that change happens suddenly. I flipped to 11.5/12.5 on Nov 12. 10 days later they went from visibly flowering to BOOM! An explosion of pistils in one day. That day for me is the start of flower, and it almost always is 10 days after the flip.
veinz
Well-Known Member
those sticky yellow fly traps
your ladies are looking
your ladies are looking
electro gypsy
New Member
Also, got to show off my new fungus gnat catching station. Thank's to Wee'zard out there on the big island, a slight modification of his idea, and presto... a long sticky yellow fly strip, with no sticky Emily or leaves. I can sit it in the middle of the plants vertically or I can lay it across the tops of the buckets horizontally. This is one of the best ideas I have seen for a while and I now share it with my friends here:
i love how you bring up the little subtleties Em. like the cup domes for cloning lol. i've been doing it for years with all sorts of plants, but never thought to see if anyone else has. i was actually a little surprised at the response. if i ever get back to updating (lol) people will probably notice i use a lot of hardware cloth. make's great pest strip guards, herb drier tray's, light stands, plant guards.. the list goes on. even a pedestal prop for my phone lol. thank you for bringing up what most of us take for granted
makes good topics.