Emmie's Berry D'licious 2019 True Living Organic: No AACT, SCROG, COB, SuperSoil Production Grow & Seed Run

[SQl2kGuy]

Veg, Day 9
Today was an interesting day in the garden, where nothing went as predicted. First, water use was slightly down across the table, with one major exception. Three more plants (the next three above the ground) were light enough to water (feel light, scale says there is around 70ml of water in there) and they got watered this evening too. The last two are another day behind and I expect them to need attention tomorrow.
I am not seeing anything that I can measure that says it is time to water, like exponential water use near the end. It was a cute theory, but I do not see it happening.
What did happen however was a growth spurt, or more closely described as a growth explosion today in our first born and first properly watered. This plant practically doubled its leaf surface area today and water use went up 61% to a yet unseen record of 1.94 ml/hr! This one is massive compared to its siblings at the moment, and it is going to be fun to see the next 3 do the same thing over the next 12 hours.
Wow this growth is rapid under this 24/0 light! Note that this is node 4 popping up right now, and when this one opens up and we start seeing node 5, it is going to be time to top this little monster. It is remarkable to me that this is all happening in less than 2 weeks. We really need to rethink veg lighting.

Since you guys are discussing topping ...

Do you guys allow your growth nodes to develop a bit before topping?

I found that if I top when the growth nodes are tiny, the growth nodes grow very slowly.

***

Also, I just flipped two photoperiods to 12-12 and I was wondering "when is the latest I can top"?

I read that pistels don't show up for 2-3 weeks ... so I figured I could still top in the first week.

Do you guys think topping in the first week might slow down the photoperiod's stretch?

All feedback is welcome

 

[SQl2kGuy]

My last SCROG was done with 1.5" holed chicken wire and I really liked how that worked. I tried 4" holes one time and hated it, and totally lost vertical control and a resulting even canopy. The smaller holes require more time training, but the extra effort is well worth the trouble at the end. I fully expect to pull a pound of dried pot off of this screen.

Perfect! I will add more strands today and bring the dimensions down to 1.5".

 

[Emilya Green]

Since you guys are discussing topping ...

Do you guys allow your growth nodes to develop a bit before topping?

I found that if I top when the growth nodes are tiny, the growth nodes grow very slowly.

***

Also, I just flipped two photoperiods to 12-12 and I was wondering "when is the latest I can top"?

I read that pistels don't show up for 2-3 weeks ... so I figured I could still top in the first week.

Do you guys think topping in the first week might slow down the photoperiod's stretch?

All feedback is welcome

I only let the growth tip grow up to the point where I can easily get in with my scissors and make the chop. It may look like this slows down the plant temporarily, but if you look the next day at the accelerated growth of all the lower nodes as a result, it can be seen that topping does not actually stun the plant.
I would not recommend doing anything to the plant after flipping the lights. Some people defoliate even up to the end of stretch and I do not agree with that practices or what you are proposing. Flipping causes fundamental changes in the plant and so does topping. It makes no sense to me to do both at the same time so as to confuse and possibly stun the plant. Top, and wait 3 days or so before doing anything else. Defoliate a week before the flip so the plant can recover first. Topping is so as to cause accelerated growth in the lower nodes, it isnt just to make the plant shorter. Do that, and then wait a week to see what happens... don't just rush into the next process.
I actually think that topping during stretch would double the stretch motivation in the lower nodes and I think stretch would get worse, not better, since you would now have two biological processes in action telling the plant to stretch.

 

[SQl2kGuy]

It is my belief after watching this annoying Auto phenomenon going on around us that there is nothing magical about the super fast growth of Autos... They are simply run with more daylight hours than normal photo plants. This made me commit to the experiment I am doing in this grow, going all through Veg at 24/0. It would be incongruent for me to believe in one of my primary adages that whilst in Veg our plants adapt to anything that is thrown at them, and not believe that they can also adapt to not having a dark period. So far, I am seeing incredibly fast development on these plants and I am fully doubting that I will need to stay in Veg for the full 2 months that I was planning going into this grow... I believe they are going to fill up my 2x4 screen way before that time.

Wonderful! Sounds like I have a lot to gain by going back to 24-0 for veg ... I will do that today.

 

[SQl2kGuy]

I carefully watch the wet/dry cycle and transplant (especially with the 24/0 accelerated growth) as soon as the container drains in 24-48 hours the first time. This usually corresponds to the point when multiple feeder roots have hit the outside and will soon start to wrap. If I had one that had started to wrap on the sides or the bottom, by all means I would now slice those roots to send them in the 5 directions upon transplant.

Awesome! I just had the light-bulb moment and I understand the principle now. I will incorporate this into my skill-set.

 

[SQl2kGuy]

I only let the growth tip grow up to the point where I can easily get in with my scissors and make the chop. It may look like this slows down the plant temporarily, but if you look the next day at the accelerated growth of all the lower nodes as a result, it can be seen that topping does not actually stun the plant.
I would not recommend doing anything to the plant after flipping the lights. Some people defoliate even up to the end of stretch and I do not agree with that practices or what you are proposing. Flipping causes fundamental changes in the plant and so does topping. It makes no sense to me to do both at the same time so as to confuse and possibly stun the plant. Top, and wait 3 days or so before doing anything else. Defoliate a week before the flip so the plant can recover first. Topping is so as to cause accelerated growth in the lower nodes, it isnt just to make the plant shorter. Do that, and then wait a week to see what happens... don't just rush into the next process.
I actually think that topping during stretch would double the stretch motivation in the lower nodes and I think stretch would get worse, not better, since you would now have two biological processes in action telling the plant to stretch.

Thank-you kindly! I read this twice ... committed it to memory ... and will incorporate it into my growing skill-set.

Top, and wait 3 days or so before doing anything else.
Defoliate a week before the flip so the plant can recover first.

I will double check and I will likely be topping my Cream Caramel CBD and Red Mandarine today.

I will not top the 12-12 photoperiods.

As soon as I complete my Vapor Pressure Deficit studies, I will loop back and start measuring and managing watering and feeding more closely.

This is now my favorite thread

 

[Emilya Green]

Veg, Day11
No numbers this morning, I got lazy last night and didn't reweigh after watering. Everyone in the tent has been watered properly now, and those watered 2 days ago are going to need more water either tonight or tomorrow morning. The wet/dry cycle has begun!
Revive on the first proper watering has made a huge difference and everyone is growing fast. Our runt, now known by the name M&M is no longer the smallest plant, as a mistake was found and the new runt got stunted a bit. This was my mistake, as somehow I got a new solo cup into the mix and I forgot and didn't notice that there were no holes in the bottom. Weighing the cups each day finally clued me in, when on this first proper watering the scale maxed out at 500g! WTF A quick check as to how/why so much water was in this one revealed the newbie mistake and I quickly took a tool to the cup and made 4 proper drainage holes. She is looking much better this morning, and I have noted that I mistook the presentation of this stress as light stress, and have noted the differences.
So we will have water usage rates this evening, but overall I am quite pleased with what is happening here. The lights have been dialed back up to 18,000 LUX, the plants have been spread out for elbow room, and we are getting on with this thing.

 

[Emilya Green]

Water use is up across the table, everyone is now using more than 1ml/hr. The two first watered plants are needing water soon and I have been looking for the clue as to when.
I have not been able to "feel" any water weight all day and after getting home from work the first one seemed as light as a feather, but the scale says that there is still 80gm/80ml of water in there as compared to the reference container. I just looked in and saw the needed signal...
Can you see it? This plant is shouting at us! "It is time to water me!"

It is that single downturned cotyledon that up until now has been raised up (praying) that is making all the noise.

Remember that the droop starts at the very bottom of the plant as the system begins to run out of water. On a larger plant, when the lower fans droop like this, you have about 12 hours... on these small plants in the solo cups, I think we have much less time before actual wilt of the stalk, and we can't let it get that far.

Tonight on the menu is plain water with a little added aloe juice for its silicates to promote strong branches and trunks.

 

[fanleaf]

I bet they explode in growth 2 days after transplant. Looking good!

 

[Emilya Green]

I bet they explode in growth 2 days after transplant. Looking good!

I am watching the wet/dry cycle now, very closely, and will transplant when it is time. I have a JIT (just in time) shipment on it's way to me right now of the 1 gallon velcro GeoPots and I will be ready when the plants are and I can already see the order in which they are going to do it.
In an effort to give away all of my secrets, I now present my #1 secret weapon in the grow room... my calendar and scratch sheet. This is where the magic all happens.

To help decipher my madness, each plant has a letter that corresponds to something on the plant. T=Tape, R=Red stripe, B=Black tape, G=green stripe, N=nothing. On the 28th you can see that BG&N got Revive, but I did not note the time. Now that I am watching more carefully, on today's notes, we see that T&R got Water at 2100 hours.

I am still watching the leaves and feeling apprehensive about turning up these powerful lights too fast. I know you push yours harder than this at this stage @fanleaf, but look how these leaves are reacting to this light at 18" and at the lumens I am measuring at the canopy. I can not make up my mind if this is light stress or simply outrageous leaf contortions so as to be able to cast off this much water, or a reaction to the 24/0. I am still pushing them as hard as I dare, but this strain might just be sensitive too...
Is this full flaps up, catch the breeze, transpiration, or is this light stress?

I am thinking light stress, even though when I back down the lights for an hour or so, they persist in doing this. It almost makes me want to go to one night cycle, just to see what happens... but that is an experiment for another day. The newer, stronger, bigger, badder, leaves coming in at the 3rd and 4th nodes seem to be able to handle this a lot better. I know these lights are powerful, but hey... I'm idling here! As long as they keep growing this fast though, less is more!

 

[Carcass]

I'm just looking and learning here....but I think I'd give the one with the canoeing leaves some shade for a day and see what happens...or not....up to you...

 

[fanleaf]

I am watching the wet/dry cycle now, very closely, and will transplant when it is time. I have a JIT (just in time) shipment on it's way to me right now of the 1 gallon velcro GeoPots and I will be ready when the plants are and I can already see the order in which they are going to do it.
In an effort to give away all of my secrets, I now present my #1 secret weapon in the grow room... my calendar and scratch sheet. This is where the magic all happens.

To help decipher my madness, each plant has a letter that corresponds to something on the plant. T=Tape, R=Red stripe, B=Black tape, G=green stripe, N=nothing. On the 28th you can see that BG&N got Revive, but I did not note the time. Now that I am watching more carefully, on today's notes, we see that T&R got Water at 2100 hours.

I am still watching the leaves and feeling apprehensive about turning up these powerful lights too fast. I know you push yours harder than this at this stage @fanleaf, but look how these leaves are reacting to this light at 18" and at the lumens I am measuring at the canopy. I can not make up my mind if this is light stress or simply outrageous leaf contortions so as to be able to cast off this much water, or a reaction to the 24/0. I am still pushing them as hard as I dare, but this strain might just be sensitive too...
Is this full flaps up, catch the breeze, transpiration, or is this light stress?

I am thinking light stress, even though when I back down the lights for an hour or so, they persist in doing this. It almost makes me want to go to one night cycle, just to see what happens... but that is an experiment for another day. The newer, stronger, bigger, badder, leaves coming in at the 3rd and 4th nodes seem to be able to handle this a lot better. I know these lights are powerful, but hey... I'm idling here! As long as they keep growing this fast though, less is more!

Could very well be light stress. While I do push mine harder I dont care for 24/0 lighting. So even though I push harder your plants may get higher DLI numbers being in 24/0.
Maybe I didn't like 24/0 because I push as hard as when in 18/0 and the plants let me know it.
Cool to think about how much power you have saved so far while you were running so soft and only on 1 bank of the lights. Even now that you are running both banks you are using very little juice right now...Way cool!

 

[Emilya Green]

Veg, Day 12
I am convinced now that this is indeed permanent leaf damage on several of the plants... these lights are stronger than the LUX reading would indicate. This makes me even more curious to add the 2 extra 5000k COBs so as to even out the light spectrum, and I bet that the LUX reading then will be closer to the reality that I am seeing here before me.

So the plants are adapting to this abuse and each day finds them a little bit stronger and more able to handle this photonic onslaught. Water use this morning is off the scale, all plants over 2ml/hr now, and our three earliest plants are approaching 3ml/hr. This can only mean that significant roots grew, in addition to the jump we got when the lower roots finally reactivated themselves. I will be very surprised if I get home this evening and don't see an obvious and dramatic growth spurt.

 

[Emilya Green]

Water use continued to be at an average of 2ml/hr across the board and although no amazing growth was noted today, we know that the roots must be also expanding out as is the top growth. None of the plants will be ready to water tonight, but I do expect the first ones to need it again sometime tomorrow if they keep up at this rate. I can measure 101ml in the fastest one right now, and I have been letting them get down to 75 or so when they feel so light and I have been watering, so at 2 ml/hr, that says I am roughly 12 hours away from needing water.
Don't you love science?
I have been playing with my camera and adjusted the white balance for these shots... I am curious how they look online as compared to recent pics.
Here is Blackie posing with the new 1 gallon GeoPot Velcro transplanter! It seems the perfect height to merge the bottom of the supersoil of these cups with the top of the supersoil in the bottom third of the new containers. Also note the new plastic drip trays that I also ordered. These are the good ones... heavy plastic. I can lift the heavy solo cup on top of it with one hand.

Oh yeah... I like that color balance a lot better. I should some day learn how to use a camera.

I turned down the lights... I am sure they are getting enough. The meter says 15K lux... I bet its a lot more than that. I know @fanleaf said something one day about his meter going nuts after adding his 5k cobs... my plants say it must have shown around a 25% increase once the meter could see the correct spectrum.

color balance... its a good thing. Too bad I don't understand over exposure either

 

[Skunks]

Pulled my chair up

 

[fanleaf]

Water use continued to be at an average of 2ml/hr across the board and although no amazing growth was noted today, we know that the roots must be also expanding out as is the top growth. None of the plants will be ready to water tonight, but I do expect the first ones to need it again sometime tomorrow if they keep up at this rate. I can measure 101ml in the fastest one right now, and I have been letting them get down to 75 or so when they feel so light and I have been watering, so at 2 ml/hr, that says I am roughly 12 hours away from needing water.
Don't you love science?
I have been playing with my camera and adjusted the white balance for these shots... I am curious how they look online as compared to recent pics.
Here is Blackie posing with the new 1 gallon GeoPot Velcro transplanter! It seems the perfect height to merge the bottom of the supersoil of these cups with the top of the supersoil in the bottom third of the new containers. Also note the new plastic drip trays that I also ordered. These are the good ones... heavy plastic. I can lift the heavy solo cup on top of it with one hand.

Oh yeah... I like that color balance a lot better. I should some day learn how to use a camera.

I turned down the lights... I am sure they are getting enough. The meter says 15K lux... I bet its a lot more than that. I know @fanleaf said something one day about his meter going nuts after adding his 5k cobs... my plants say it must have shown around a 25% increase once the meter could see the correct spectrum.

color balance... its a good thing. Too bad I don't understand over exposure either

If it's okay with you I would like to put 1 picture here in your journal so we can all talk about the power of the lights?
Considering where mine are running I just can't believe it was light stress. Just so happens my seedlings are 16 days old and so are about the same age.
Heck, I could even delete the pic part of the post after we talk about it

 

[fanleaf]

I like that color balance a lot better.

Me too! Awesome!

 

[TysonOG]

Hey Em! Glad you got a new journal going. I used to run 24/0 thinking I would get faster growth, but when dialed in, I actually get faster growth in 18/6. My next run I want to try 6/2 as I've heard good things. Something to think about.

 

[fanleaf]

I used to run 24/0 thinking I would get faster growth, but when dialed in, I actually get faster growth in 18/6.

Same here

 

[Emilya Green]

Veg, Day 13

I love the dual confirmation on the 18/6 time... and yes, that must have become the defacto standard for a reason. I am finding that I am agreeing with your assessments about the 24/0, that cumulatively pushing these lights as hard as I have been, I have not been giving the plants a time to recover, hence the light damage. I will set up a timer later today.

and by

I did reduce the light intensity yesterday and noticed a resulting drop in water usage, until this morning. Our oldest, who will get topped this evening shot her water usage up to 3.4 ml/hr! Everyone else shot up over 2 ml/hr too... I think they liked the reduction in light a lot!

Blackie got a watering this morning, establishing a roughly 3 day wet/dry cycle. Our leader will need water this evening, setting up a 2 day wet/dry cycle and about needing to be uppotted.

Here is the pic of the day!