Emmie's Berry D'licious 2019 True Living Organic: No AACT, SCROG, COB, SuperSoil Production Grow & Seed Run

clrwatrtom said:
Wow Emmy. This is a great teaching journal. I feel like a dripping sponge. I wish I had the ability to retain more. Btw, 3rd EW, some purple sherbet from the local Rise disp. locally, in my yocan evolve.
Attempting couch lock
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Yep, thats the way I like em... lots of good discussion going on. :) Glad you are here!
 
Emilya said:
Lastly, all respect to @InTheShed, but I will advise against trying to run FFOF with its strong upward drift, without carefully adjusting your pH to 6.3 every time... not 6.5, and not just going willie nillie and letting the numbers fall where they may without adjusting pH. Let me please suggest that you only try this bold experiment on a side by side test, on a plant that it wont kill you to lose... because that is what I predict will happen. Shed has some unexplained voodoo going on there in that shack, and I know that if I tried to replicate it, something untoward would happen to me... a toe would fall off or something. It is scary stuff... be sure to have backup.
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Alright ... if I understand this ..., then if my water is alkaline, or if the type of Nitrogen in the nutes is making my soil pH become more acidic, ... then I will need to take corrective action.

So, based on the science, and the properties of my tap water, I may need to pH my water.

As a guideline, it may be safer for me to initially adjust my pH to 6.3 because of FFOF's strong upward drift.

*** This concludes my first round of responses and will loop back to look at the other responses so I can tie this all together.
 
SQl2kGuy said:
then I will need to take corrective action.
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Yes, in the soil.
SQl2kGuy said:
So, based on the science, and the properties of my tap water, I may need to pH my water.
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No, not the water. You don't change the pH of your soil by pouring pH adjusted water through it. You would need to amend the soil.

[if you want to see if your soil pH is drifting one way or the other, you would need to slurry test or pour-through test it]
 
InTheShed said:
No, not the water. You don't change the pH of your soil by pouring pH adjusted water through it. You would need to amend the soil.
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This I agree with... you absolutely do not adjust your incoming fluids trying to "adjust" the soil... and if your soil can't hold its buffering capability throughout a 4 month grow, you bought the wrong soil. This idea of amending during the grow should be highly discouraged... throwing new raw elements in there in a top feed for instance. That would be an easy way to really whack out the rhizosphere and create pH nuke zones in that soil as it "adjusted"... save all that for after the grow.
 
Best you could do would be to transplant into new soil, not that I've seen any soil get that bent out of shape during a grow.
 
Emilya said:
I contend that given a proper flush at the proper time, the last 2 week budswell CAN be enhanced with additional nutes and finish products. I think this will add significant yield and quality increases. I believe that in the study, without that flush the plants were cruising along and not being pushed any longer because of the restrictions in uptake, so they adapted easily to less nutes or even no nutes during that 2 week period without any signs of stress. In my method we lock the throttle full on, seeing just how fast we can get going before the end. I guarantee you... there is a difference.
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So, ... in the last two weeks, we can give full nutes and maybe even more?

You are full-on with bloom enhancers right?
 
SQl2kGuy said:
So, as a soil grower, I should be able to use my tap water which has a ppm of 400 ... and not have to buy distilled water or get an RO system ... right?

If it turns out my water is alkaline, then I will expect the pH of the soil to become acidic over time.

Will it hurt? ... Or is it even necessary to pH my water to between 6.3 and 6.8 when watering or feeding then?

I know @InTheShed has indicated I don't need to pH the water ... but I am "concerned" not to pH it.

It would be nice to able to say to @InTheShed ... got it ... I am a soil grower and will not pH my water anymore.

Again, no offense to @InTheShed ... but for me, water is critical! I can't get this wrong!
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Thanks so much for joining in @InTheShed ... I know you're busy ... but I think it's important to have your feedback too!
 
Emilya said:
Remember that Shed's original thread had a lot to do with the Promix that did profoundly become affected by the fluids that passed through it. A good organic soil, especially one that is recomposted constantly, is a lot more resilient to that and indeed is why I supplement my soil with raw nutrients and buffers in between grows. Over the length of a normal grow, the soil is not going to change enough to even become a factor, because a good soil like FFOF is buffered at both ends, with peat at the low end and dolomite at the high end. Don't expect your soil to become overly acidic over time, unless you are looking at a 3 or 4 month bloom... then it might become a factor that bears watching, or in permanent locations, such as a tree that you are trying to nourish.
Yes, you can use tap water with no problems in a soil grow... and a lot of that ppm is actually beneficial, such as a bit of magnesium. People that use tap water used to not usually have magnesium deficiencies, until LEDs came along. Don't worry about the ppm of your water... it is going in soil and that number is meaningless. Even the fear of chlorine in tap water is really mostly myth, and surprisingly our plants actually need a tiny amount of chlorine. I have heard it said that it would take swimming pool strength chlorine to actually kill our microbes... the are tough little critters.
If you are using bottled nutes, they have a specific pH that their chemical compounds are designed to break apart at and become mobile in the solution. Whatever Shed is using, it is good stuff, and it must have a nice wide range, plus Shed has learned how to manage his water so that his pH is never too far out of line... plus he uses up the buffers in his medium to eliminate the need for adjusting pH. Soil is a little slower to react to an improper pH, no matter how well it is buffered, and it becomes more important to hit the target a little closer to center. In a fast soil, coming in at the high end can quickly make some of the elements immobile, and it is necessary to jump around a bit to make that happen. There are all sorts of tricks to make that happen occasionally, such as water/nuteing without pH adjustment, taking things to the low end to be buffered back up, and then coming in with unadjusted water the next time at the high end to "balance" things out... I think it is smarter to know why pH is important and just adjust it to the right spot so as to not waste nutes, if nothing else.
Once you wean yourself from that bottle, then tell Shed you no longer adjust your pH... or do what he is doing and get some Promix... apparently it is good stuff.
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Wow! Thanks!
 
Emilya said:
Surely you are not doing this at full strength, or you would be burning up a plant in soil. Typically it is water/feed/water/feed and in some systems they recommend feed/water/water
This is because all of the nutes are not used up on the first pass (at full strength) and plain water the next time gives them a second shot. This keeps the soil clean and gives good strong nutes when the plants want it, and then a relaxation time with less nutes the next time.
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Actually, I have been using full strength nutes according to the Canada Gringo Rasta Feeding Schedule with healthy plants.

I was surprised too.

But hey, if they can handle it, then I will keep going.

Maybe for longer grows there would be an issue.
 
Emilya said:
This is the only part that I give you my famous look about... like, why would you do that, other than still being locked into that hydro mindset that you must feed every time.
:rolleyes:
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lol ... you are correct I was very confused about soil and hydro and did develop a narrow mindset.

I will try just watering sometimes ... and let the plant get its nutrients the organic way ... from microlife.
 
Emilya said:
This I agree with... you absolutely do not adjust your incoming fluids trying to "adjust" the soil... and if your soil can't hold its buffering capability throughout a 4 month grow, you bought the wrong soil. This idea of amending during the grow should be highly discouraged... throwing new raw elements in there in a top feed for instance. That would be an easy way to really whack out the rhizosphere and create pH nuke zones in that soil as it "adjusted"... save all that for after the grow.
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This was where I was mistaken in my thinking ... I consider myself on track now!
 
Wow!

What an excellent series of posts ... with awesome feedback from our elite growers.

A special thanks is going out to @Emilya and to @InTheShed for their valuable contributions which have helped me greatly, and will surely help many future growers here.

I may bundle this info up and make a separate thread out of it in case there are other new growers out there with similar questions.

PS ... I am still going to name my HSO Chemdawg first seedling "SenseEmilya" ... and maybe I should name my second seedling "SenseInTheShed" ... lol
 
I don't know what "Sense" means! If you mean sensei, I certainly don't claim any titles here that the community hasn't given me already.

:Namaste:
 
SQl2kGuy said:
I will try just watering sometimes ... and let the plant get its nutrients the organic way ... from microlife.
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actually no... your grow is not going to have a whole lot of microlife... yes there is some, but nothing like a true organic grow where the microlife supplies everything. You are just using leftovers out of the bottle on that water only pass... sloppy seconds. :)
 
Great conversation you guys, but it is time for an update: :tommy:
Veg, Day 21, start of 3rd week
Today was a busy day, both in the thread and in the tent. I got home to find that all the plants except our new runt, needed watering. (N)an is using water, but just a bit slower than the rest, probably on a 3 day cycle, while the rest of them clearly demonstrated a 48 hour wet/dry cycle already in these new containers. Everyone was given the maximum recommended (heavy) application of Recharge, slowly watering to saturation. Just watering these 4 plants took almost 2 hours, and I got them all to take just under a quart apiece, which is up about 6% from the last watering. I am now assured that the outside edges of each of these smartpots is the very wettest part of the container. Two of the plants, Tapeta and Red needed their second topping, slowing down the progress of the formerly dominant upper nodes, allowing nodes 1-3 to catch up and reach the canopy.
Also, I have spotted my first preflowers, but even with my loupe it is still hard to determine, but my best first guess is that T is female and R is male but I will be surprised if the two fastest plants are not both male. The plan is to keep them in these containers until 2 females and one male can be isolated for the next stage in the grow. The male will stay in this container till he spews, and the females will be moved to 10 gallon GeoPots won in the MOTM contest.
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Since these calyxes appear to be sitting down flush on the notch and not up on little stalks of their own, I think this is a female.
 
Veg, Day 22

Ok, Nan is going slower than I thought... this one definitely got in trouble early on with the lighting. She doesn't need water this morning, and I am starting to think this one is on a 5 day schedule when the others are going at a 2 day wet/dry cycle and getting faster.

The rest are showing amazing vigor after yesterday's watering with full strength RealGrowers Recharge. When you mix that stuff up (1tsp/gal) and shake it up in a gallon jug, it looks and smells just like a very strong undiluted AACT . Well, this morning the plants all look like they got a strong AACT last night. The lift on the entire plant is excellent. The thickness and strength of the stalks and limbs appear to be superior. I would say that the Recharge is doing what it was brought in to do... and quite well. The ease of bringing in these microbes simply by mixing this into water should make a lot more people think about going full organic.

Berry-D'licious, Veg Day 22

Berry-D'licious, Veg Day 22

RealGrower's Recharge the day before.

Moving these powerful COBs out a ways has helped a lot. Leaf cupping and ridging is much less apparent today.
 
Emilya said:
actually no... your grow is not going to have a whole lot of microlife... yes there is some, but nothing like a true organic grow where the microlife supplies everything. You are just using leftovers out of the bottle on that water only pass... sloppy seconds. :)
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Oh ... thanks ... another big surprise!

I thought I could have the best of both worlds ... strong microlife in soil and supplement with synthetic nutes.

Quick question, when we flush the FF Ocean Forest soil with 3xpot size of water, are we stripping the soil of a lot its health?

Is it really beneficial to do these flushes with soil?

I mean, why should I buy top notch soil if I am going to flush the soil's healthy minerals down the drain every 4 weeks.
 
SQl2kGuy said:
Oh ... thanks ... another big surprise!

I thought I could have the best of both worlds ... strong microlife in soil and supplement with synthetic nutes.

Quick question, when we flush the FF Ocean Forest soil with 3xpot size of water, are we stripping the soil of a lot its health?

Is it really beneficial to do these flushes with soil?

I mean, why should I buy top notch soil if I am going to flush the soil's healthy minerals down the drain every 4 weeks.
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The ability to hold minerals in the soil is why we use soil and not sand... you do not wash the minerals away with a flush. You do not wash away the big organic stuff or even the little organic stuff... just the little tiny broken down stuff that tends to compact the soil anyway. The good stuff in the soil are clumped in the humus in a tight enough bond that a little bit of water is not going to wash them away, and since most of these elements do not dissolve into the water, they just stay there. A flush does not strip a soil of its health or crops would die every time there was a heavy rain.
As far as the microlife goes, that is exactly what the FF Trio is all about. Big Bloom is pretty much all organic teeming with microbes. Every time you water you bring more of them in. Since it is not a mineralized soil however, the microlife lacking an abundant food source, does not thrive in a non mineralized soil. You can have microlife and synthetics together, but your microlife in such a grow is on life support from day one. You can make it stronger by adding other microlife products if you want, and this is what URB, Voodoo Juice and RealGrower's recharge are all about. You can have the best of both worlds, but you have to work at it.
So yes... it is extremely beneficial to do flushes periodically in a synthetic grow because all it takes out of the soil is the water soluble junk, mostly the salts that are harming your grow.
 
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