Droughting and its medicinal effects in cannabis

[Krissi Carbone]

I just wish it was my turn to drought again ! Between all the manipulation I do to the plants , droughting is the other part I look forward too Thankyou one more time for this Krissi.

You and me both!! It's a transformation and it's super fun to watch, at least it is for me! Used to scare me the first couple times but now it's like jumping off a diving board-just wanna keep doing it!

Don't thank me, for all of your efforts and positive energy here Burk! Can't wait to see your beautiful drought, we all know you produce some amazing stuff!

 

[Mlburk1]

No name as of yet ! Trying to think of something for support of the Ukraine's Open to any suggestions

 

[Hafta]

@Krissi1982, @Stunger,
After looking at Stunger's balcony plants I have a question. Is there a certain time of day when the LWA is used to determine the end of drought? Will the LWA change depending on access to the light or a change in temperature?

 

[Krissi Carbone]

No name as of yet ! Trying to think of something for support of the Ukraine's Open to any suggestions

Tsilytel: Healer

@Krissi1982, @Stunger,
After looking at Stunger's balcony plants I have a question. Is there a certain time of day when the LWA is used to determine the end of drought? Will the LWA change depending on access to the light or a change in temperature?

Hmm. That is a good question. I am going to go ahead and say the time of day matters. I would assume however that light access and/or change in temperature would. I am basing this off of the fact that when it's warmer, leaves droop even more when they aren't getting water...how much of a difference in LWA, I am not sure. I am also pretty sure that Stunger doesn't go by angle measurements either, he's pretty in tuned with his plants.

Wish I had better or more appropriate answers for you. Clarify to me exactly what you mean by changing the LWA. Are you trying to say that the numbers we usually go by would change themselves or that the conditions would affect the way the LWA is changing in those conditions?

 

[Hafta]

@Krissi1982,
I have noticed that the leaves of some plants have drooped during the dark periods and recover once there is light. Surprisingly, I have not seen that with my current grow.
I am ASKING if it would be wise to take ALL LWA measurements at a specific time of day, say ....two hours after first light (allowing the plant to reach full "recovery") and before other environmental changes can make an impact (such as warmer temps).

 

[Azimuth]

The plants go through a power down phase after dark and will look droopy, and they will anticipate both lights out and lights on if set to a schedule like on a timer. I would think measuring your angle at a set time each day would be best, and not too close to lights out.

I've never timed it but I would think 10-15 mins buffer from lights on or off should be sufficient.

 

[Krissi Carbone]

The plants go through a power down phase after dark and will look droopy, and they will anticipate both lights out and lights on if set to a schedule like on a timer. I would think measuring your angle at a set time each day would be best, and not too close to lights out.

I've never timed it but I would think 10-15 mins buffer from lights on or off should be sufficient.

What about 24-0 autos? I guess that's what I was thinking. They normally do a droop on their own, guess just note when it is?

 

[Azimuth]

What about 24-0 autos? I guess that's what I was thinking. They normally do a droop on their own, guess just note when it is?

Never grown autos so I got nothin'.

But yeah, I would think a standard time of day if you're getting all scientific with it like actually measuring the LWA with some tool.

If you do like Stunger does, you just monitor the plant for signs you may be overdoing it.

 

[Hafta]

Never grown autos so I got nothin'.

But yeah, I would think a standard time of day if you're getting all scientific with it like actually measuring the LWA with some tool.

If you do like Stunger does, you just monitor the plant for signs you may be overdoing it.

If we are indeed trying to "spread the word" I think the more refined the procedure the better?

 

[Krissi Carbone]

Never grown autos so I got nothin'.

But yeah, I would think a standard time of day if you're getting all scientific with it like actually measuring the LWA with some tool.

Same leaf same time of day...try to keep a good reference point in all areas

If you do like Stunger does, you just monitor the plant for signs you may be overdoing it.

I am just keeping an open mind here. I think we just tapped the surface with that study. I think a good growers intuition accounts for a lot more than we credit sometimes

If we are indeed trying to "spread the word" I think the more refined the procedure the better?

I agree. My only thought here that I will add is that we are spreading the word about something we are still trying to make better ourselves. I think it would be asinine of us not to explore avenues of droughting that were not in the initial study. Broadening our horizons on the technique if you will. Seeing if that way is in fact the best way and by doing so, we need to try other avenues first. Not that we are wrecklessly abandoning our said parameters and tools, just utilizing different approaches and seeing what we can come up with.

 

[scottreid1966]

I have a question and possibly an insight for outside droughting.
What does LWA mean?
outside droughting. :I was also wondering. I will be planting 2 ladies straight into soil and 2 others into pots sometime in June (I hope). I could make a slightly elevated cone a tad larger in diameter than my pots or canvas. Could be done in plastic but I work with sheet metal. May not work as well with the ones planted into the ground but the potted ones would only be able to water themselves from the leaves.

 

[Azimuth]

If we are indeed trying to "spread the word" I think the more refined the procedure the better?

For some probably, but there will be others that are turned off by the need to be so precise and measure stuff.

Maybe a "best practices" approach with the numbers, but also a more casual approach for others and provide the broad concepts. After all, @Stunger got it done without really even trying or even knowing that that was what he was doing, and may have even gotten better results by doing it all season.

I kind of see it similar to other aspects of growing. Take watering. While there are some broadly accepted ways to do it, there is no one right way. Lots of approaches to get it done, each with their own nuances and outcomes, but many of them work.

 

[Krissi Carbone]

I have a question and possibly an insight for outside droughting.
What does LWA mean?

Leaf Wilt Angle. It is the preferred method of measurement in this study that allows you to judge when the drought should be over. There is a baseline angle on a chosen leaf or two taken prior to drought. That angle will change during the drought as the plant shows its stress mainly in the leaves (although I am finding that is not true on all strains. Some have shown me different signs while the leaves remained turgid throughout the droughting process)

outside droughting. :I was also wondering. I will be planting 2 ladies straight into soil and 2 others into pots sometime in June (I hope). I could make a slightly elevated cone a tad larger in diameter than my pots or canvas. Could be done in plastic but I work with sheet metal. May not work as well with the ones planted into the ground but the potted ones would only be able to water themselves from the leaves.

I am definitely thinking a sheet metal cone would possibly cause too much light to refract? With that said, I am unsure what purpose you intend for the cone. Could be that my head is in a whirl right now with a hermied plant I just found but could you please clarify for me?

For some probably, but there will be others that are turned off by the need to be so precise and measure stuff.

Maybe a "best practices" approach with the numbers, but also a more casual approach for others and provide the broad concepts. After all, @Stunger got it done without really even trying or even knowing that that was what he was doing, and may have even gotten better results by doing it all season.

I kind of see it similar to other aspects of growing. Take watering. While there are some broadly accepted ways to do, there is no one right way. Lots of approaches to get done, each with their own nuances and outcomes, but many of them work.

This is perfect. Thank you Az

 

[Stunger]

For those who don't know, Stunger, this has been something you have been dabbling with and experimenting with rather intentional or not for years now am I correct?

No, not that much Krissi but thanks. Only the initial 'accidental' summer of droughting that occurred with that plant I grew a dozen or so years ago. It was my very first grow on the balcony, and pretty much my first real grow altho I had badly grown a couple of plants years earlier. But I found that first balcony grow very nerve wracking for the constant helicopters going overhead and worry every time I heard a siren. After another long growing break I restarted again. But since then I have only tried the one 'semi droughting' that I mentioned. But I have been avidly read the posts of Maritimer since discovering his work and passion. And then you started up this thread which really galvanised me and gave me further confidence to intentionally set out to do the same with my grow this year.

After looking at Stunger's balcony plants I have a question. Is there a certain time of day when the LWA is used to determine the end of drought? Will the LWA change depending on access to the light or a change in temperature?

Hmm. That is a good question. I am going to go ahead and say the time of day matters. I would assume however that light access and/or change in temperature would. I am basing this off of the fact that when it's warmer, leaves droop even more when they aren't getting water...how much of a difference in LWA, I am not sure. I am also pretty sure that Stunger doesn't go by angle measurements either, he's pretty in tuned with his plants.

Hafta, Krissi, there are a lot more variables that are harder to control when growing outside. The constant strong winds of this past week are very drying. The heat radiating off the hot stone tiles is another stress factor. When the sun comes out it is a massive heavy blanket of heat on the plants compared to the shade of the mornings and is enough to bring on severe wilting in these no watering conditions. What I witnessed on my initial 'accidental droughting' was a constant daily wilting that I would try to remedy by watering. That's what I mean with it being accidental, I was actually trying to water it but the small pot and conditions still forced a droughting on the plant, and plus at one point over Christmas we were away for 5 days and it was very badly wilted on our return. So to sum up, for the conditions of my grow I really have to step back and just look for a suitable amount of drought stress to be occurring for a suitably long enough period of time. I think my Mango Sherbert has already close to reached her full bud/cola size, so I think I am carrying this out at an appropriate point that is past inhibiting full bud growth, now I just want to 'potentialise' them! haha.

If you do like Stunger does, you just monitor the plant for signs you may be overdoing it.

Yes Azi, that's all I feel I can do.

I agree. My only thought here that I will add is that we are spreading the word about something we are still trying to make better ourselves. I think it would be asinine of us not to explore avenues of droughting that were not in the initial study. Broadening our horizons on the technique if you will. Seeing if that way is in fact the best way and by doing so, we need to try other avenues first. Not that we are wrecklessly abandoning our said parameters and tools, just utilizing different approaches and seeing what we can come up with.

I see it this way. I have no hope of being able to make a controlled study/grow like Dr Caplan. But I can simply apply drought stress and watch for the plant's response to hopefully guide it to making itself more oily/resiny to cope with the conditions. And plus, I saw it happen so I know it works.

outside droughting. :I was also wondering. I will be planting 2 ladies straight into soil and 2 others into pots sometime in June (I hope). I could make a slightly elevated cone a tad larger in diameter than my pots or canvas. Could be done in plastic but I work with sheet metal. May not work as well with the ones planted into the ground but the potted ones would only be able to water themselves from the leaves.

I have thought that I would do the same if conditions turn against me, try and fashion some waterproofing layer over the top of the pot to divert any fallen rain water away from the pot's soil.

Maybe a "best practices" approach with the numbers, but also a more casual approach for others and provide the broad concepts. After all, @Stunger got it done without really even trying or even knowing that that was what he was doing, and may have even gotten better results by doing it all season.

I think that is right Azi. Caplan was doing a thesis study, so of course he had to maintain clear numbers and controlled conditions. I am just trying to recreate the conditions of a plant that is clinging to life growing out of the rock crack in sun and wind, whose buds are super potent, oily and resiny. Just like the essential oil of many garden herb can be potentialized by similar drought conditions, there are studies about that show this, I think saw one on Rosemary but not a 100% sure.

 

[Azimuth]

. I could make a slightly elevated cone a tad larger in diameter than my pots or canvas. Could be done in plastic but I work with sheet metal. May not work as well with the ones planted into the ground but the potted ones would only be able to water themselves from the leaves.

Is this to prevent rain water from getting to the soil? If so, it would have to be pretty wide since it's generally accepted that a plants roots extend at least to the drip line of the leaves. Could help minimize the amount of water. Interesting idea. Maybe you could use a cheap tarp to cover more ground.

I've seen setup instructions for the earth boxes where they cover the entire pot surface with a black plastic, then cut an 'X' in the middle and stick the plant through it. Watering then happens only through the fill tube.

 

[scottreid1966]

Is this to prevent rain water from getting to the soil? If so, it would have to be pretty wide since it's generally accepted that a plants roots extend at least to the drip line of the leaves. Could help minimize the amount of water. Interesting idea. Maybe you could use a cheap tarp to cover more ground.

I've seen setup instructions for the earth boxes where they cover the entire pot surface with a black plastic, then cut an 'X' in the middle and stick the plant through it. Watering then happens only through the fill tube.

I am definitely thinking a sheet metal cone would possibly cause too much light to refract? With that said, I am unsure what purpose you intend for the cone. Could be that my head is in a whirl right now with a hermied plant I just found but could you please clarify for me?

Is this to prevent rain water from getting to the soil?

Yes. In my case, with a flat, non-reflective painted sheet-metal with a slight outward / downward slope that surpasses the canopy (drip lines), or the diameter of the pot it's in. On a heavy rain, the soil may getwet from the outside-in. But at least the root's core would be protected from the worst of it.
I live near Montreal, the french part of South Eastern Canada. And in early fall, in can rain quite a bit and the soil gets chilly and stays moist.
With all that I have read on this thread made me think ahead for my next outside grow. Droughting could be close to impossible.
" Alotta points to ponda!"

 

[scottreid1966]

Grrr. Did a bad job at copy/pasting . So sorry @Krissi1982 . Flat metal paint on sheet metal (have plenty at work) and come September, the "draining/droughting" cone would never see direct sunlight. I was thinking that at least my girls could stand a chance at this droughting tequnique considering my outside environment.

 

[Stunger]

Yes. In my case, with a flat, non-reflective painted sheet-metal with a slight outward / downward slope that surpasses the canopy (drip lines), or the diameter of the pot it's in. On a heavy rain, the soil may getwet from the outside-in. But at least the root's core would be protected from the worst of it.
I live near Montreal, the french part of South Eastern Canada. And in early fall, in can rain quite a bit and the soil gets chilly and stays moist.
With all that I have read on this thread made me think ahead for my next outside grow. Droughting could be close to impossible.
" Alotta points to ponda!"

Funnily enough Scott, I had thought the opposite, of having a reflective dome giving them even more sunlight, but my hesitation in doing so is because of my concern that helicopters passing overhead may be alerted to my 'shiny' bud enhancing beacons, so I never followed thru on that.

If I was growing outside in the ground, to mitigate the rainfall, I would consider covering the ground around the plant with some plastic sheeting to keep that area of ground from being penetrated by rainfall in an attempt to keep the soil drier.

 

[Azimuth]

If I was growing outside in the ground, to mitigate the rainfall, I would consider covering the ground around the plant with some plastic sheeting to keep that area of ground from being penetrated by rainfall in an attempt to keep the soil drier.

Or maybe a big tarp.

 

[Stunger]

Or maybe a big tarp.

Or that ^^.