not even sure why i am laughing but i am, cheers shedder
Droughting and its medicinal effects in cannabis
- Thread starter Krissi Carbone
- Start date
Maritimer
Well-Known Member
ed rosenthal published that?
and he used the word degradation?
Think about why the resin presents these developmental changes, going from clear to cloudy, then from cloudy on to amber. During the time it takes for the globus bulbs to change colors, what changes are being presented to the cultivar. What are the mother plant's priorities? To make and protect her seeds. Period.
Ask then, what are the seeds priorities (not the mother) during this time, when the globus bulbs go from clear to amber and you may answer the riddle. Could amber colored trichomes indicate a change in the viability of the seed has occurred? Could amber colored trikes indicate a shift in homeostasis brought on by the fertility?
just thinking out loud
I think why not if it seems a good candidate, that's how nature applies it (randomly/repeatably).
I spent my youth tying flies and fishing for trout and I loved it. But the thought now of fly fishing for trout and having some herb as an 'enhancer', would be an absolute treat!
That is wonderful pic of those trichome bulbs and the solitary amber one.
Thank you Krissi!
And we love you for thinking out loud Maritimer! I say that with humour because that it one of the vibes of our great community, but I mean it sincerely too. You've done a lot investigations that are really interesting, and it's great you're sharing your thoughts!just thinking out loud
I think not since most of our bud is non-fertilized, and therefore no seeds at all and yet we get the normal progression anyway. So the color can not be indicating a change in the viability of a seed that doesn't exist.Ask then, what are the seeds priorities (not the mother) during this time, when the globus bulbs go from clear to amber and you may answer the riddle. Could amber colored trichomes indicate a change in the viability of the seed has occurred? Could amber colored trikes indicate a shift in homeostasis brought on by the fertility?
just thinking out loud
I think it must be an unrelated action. Maybe, like milk, the trichomes have a shelf life. I wonder if local conditions like temp and humidity have any effect on how long a clear trichome takes to go to cloudy and then amber.
A similar thing happens with maple sap you intend to turn in to maple syrup. It will spoil if not kept cool while awaiting the boil down process. Same thing could be happening here.
The trichomes are the plants attempt to protect possible seeds from predators but maybe the word "degrading" is exactly right.
In terms of the whole clear/cloudy/amber thing, I would like to point out that the outside plants will show amber trichomes without creating CBN.
@Amy Gardner always told me that outside amber isn't like tent amber because of the impact of the sun on trichomes, and @BeezLuiz discovered that harvesting based on the standard tent-based reading of amber left him with low THC numbers and zero CBN. Here are his tests results.
I'm hoping he can chime in to tell us what percent amber he waited for but I'm sure there was enough to make him decide to harvest. Yet almost 0% CBN across all his THC plants.
So some of us outside growers are harvesting later than we have in the past to see how that goes. I've taken to letting the plant tell me when it's done, including when the smell changes and it starts drinking much more slowly, in addition to the number of cloudy/clear trichomes.
@Amy Gardner always told me that outside amber isn't like tent amber because of the impact of the sun on trichomes, and @BeezLuiz discovered that harvesting based on the standard tent-based reading of amber left him with low THC numbers and zero CBN. Here are his tests results.
I'm hoping he can chime in to tell us what percent amber he waited for but I'm sure there was enough to make him decide to harvest. Yet almost 0% CBN across all his THC plants.
So some of us outside growers are harvesting later than we have in the past to see how that goes. I've taken to letting the plant tell me when it's done, including when the smell changes and it starts drinking much more slowly, in addition to the number of cloudy/clear trichomes.
My plan will be to still harvest at the point where the overall number of ambers falls between 5 - 10%. The percentage of ambers should have decreased with the addition of new, clear ones. Surely the pre-existing trichomes will continue to degrade. The final result may be to harvest reasonably soon after droughting.But even then, do the older ones on the buds continue to degrade, and if so, how do you then judge the harvest window? Still a percentage of amber? Or wait for the new ones to get cloudy? Certainly if you waited for a percentage of the new ones to turn amber that would likely be too long for the originals.
I harvested those plants based on the 10-20% amber guideline.
- Thread starter
- #949
ed rosenthal published that?
and he used the word degradation?
Think about why the resin presents these developmental changes, going from clear to cloudy, then from cloudy on to amber. During the time it takes for the globus bulbs to change colors, what changes are being presented to the cultivar. What are the mother plant's priorities? To make and protect her seeds. Period.
Ask then, what are the seeds priorities (not the mother) during this time, when the globus bulbs go from clear to amber and you may answer the riddle. Could amber colored trichomes indicate a change in the viability of the seed has occurred? Could amber colored trikes indicate a shift in homeostasis brought on by the fertility?
just thinking out loud
Guys I'm having some issues with my phone and/or this app so bare with me.
Been a lot of talking and thought providing conversation here. Tbh, I was in the dark and didn't know what to say or have the time to research anything until just now.
Im not going to go on and go back to all of these comments as all have been discussed and all thoughts are up in the air and thoughts because we have no clear definitive answers to them.
With that said, I'm taking the Maritimer approach here (I can't tag either so that's gonna be a pain) and I am going to think out loud for a minute.
I went ahead and looked into a couple studies. One was about glandular trichome morphologies and metabolism and metabolic content while the other was on trichomes and cannabinoid content and development with a specificty on developing leaf systems and bracts and flowers.
So let's just say the act of droughting changes the metabolic processes, normal development of trichomes and their production. This stress technique has proven to be a metabolic catalyst on monoterpene synthases and ultimately changes the medicinal, sensory, and psychoactive properties of our cannabis.
As we know and for those that don't, there are 3 different kinds of trichomes- bulbous, capitate sessile and capitate stalked. Non glandular trichomes are found on stems, leaves, bracts and flowers. These are what can be seen with the naked eye. Capitate sessile have globular heads and are found on the underside of sugar and fan leaves. Capitate stalked have shorter trichomes and are found on the upper leaf surfaces.
One study used a fast flowering hemp variety of cannabis sativa called Finola. In this study, it documented the dramatic shifting development trichomes incurred. It speaks of using UV light to monitor trichome maturity on flower.
Stalked glandular trichomes have expanded 'cellular factories' to make more cannabinoids. They emit a bright blue color under UV light and can also be determined by the large distinctive pie shaped dish of secretory cells. Smaller sessile trichomes with no stalk, emit a red color and have smaller discs.
In a gene expression analysis, stalked trichomes were most strongly geared to making CBDA and terpenes. Could it be that during a drought, certain trichomes are targeted as certain proteins and enzymes are enhanced which inevitably end up affecting trichome colors, initiating different developmental stages or changes and ultimately providing the more psychoactive and medicinal smoke? Maybe all of our thoughts on this are based under the assumption that the typical morphological respones in trichomes during late flowering remain the same during a drought.
Maybe the transcriptomes of the floral trichomes undergo even more of a change than we originally thought and we can't base the color of the trichomes at different stages in the same manner as we would in a plant who was not droughted?
Everything we are basing these notions on are with the idea that the GRN hasn't re-coded itself in an effort to maintain the health of its seeds? Maybe the trichome color changes as Maritimer said, because of a change in the seed encapsulated in those flowers and trichomes? Maybe the trichomes do signal a developmental change under that flower and within the seed. A change that was brought on by a catslyst-the drought.
So much stuff to think about and continue to read up on.
For now, here is Limelight our droughted and now curing NYC DIESEL.
I may not know all the answers, I may not be as well read as I'd like to be on all of the science of our cannabis but know that I am not just another pretty green plant. I'm all about creating this type of medicinal bud over and over again and finding a way to make it better each and every time. I'm all about learning and growing with you guys as we continue to dig into just how droughting affects our plants in more ways than we can even begin to fathom.
Happy droughting! Maybe I'll get my phone or the app fixed soon!
I still maintain it is not seed related unless you think the reaction to seeded bud is different from the sensimilla we all mostly try to grow. If there is no seed to protect, the change must be related to something else since it seems to happen seeded or not-seeded.
- Thread starter
- #951
Well I think what the issue is that is being missed is the plant doesn't know there are no seeds in there so maybe they are thinking that there is or should be a change, in my perception, since everything they are doing is based on the assumption that they have seeds in there to begin with
Sorry for the edit...this phone is terrible right now
I'm not sure. When the buds have been pollinated there is a definite and almost immediate change in the plant, whereas for a plant without seeds the plant seems to go into overdrive to try to make seeds at the end (hermies, flush of new pistils, etc.)
What Azi said ↓
There must be a reason we grow seedless plants. I have always thought there were fewer trichomes produced once the plant was fertilized, and therefore fewer mg of THC/gram of flower.
- Thread starter
- #954
You both make absolutely good points. I had read that numerous times about a plant once it is fertilized in regards to potency.
I wish I knew all the answers to the questions I have!
I'll do some research but, does anyone know of a study that has the different percentages of the different cannabinoids in pollinated vs. un-pollinated plants?
If the plant changes the make-up of the cannabinoids once pollinated, it may do something similar during drought conditions?
I had just heard that the plant's energy changes to making seeds rather than anything else. Not calyx building/bulking.
You mean other than not gumming up the grinder?
You keeps saying to protect the seed. the trichomes are there for defense and to protect the pistils from drying out . The plant's main mission is to produce seed and the trics provide the moisture in drought to keep the pistils alive, even if there is very little left. It will keep trying to send out new ones or fox tail, until it get fertilized
If not it will keep crying the virgin tears
I see this happen with cucumbers all the time, if you don't pick the big seedy ones the plant will stop producing & stop growing
If not it will keep crying the virgin tears
Yes if any plant is fertilized it will put most of it's energy into making those seed, once they are ripe enough it will go back to growing more flowers
I see this happen with cucumbers all the time, if you don't pick the big seedy ones the plant will stop producing & stop growing
I can't speak on the science or studies, but I totally appreciate all the shared insights that are being put forward.
I have a basic simplistic view from a personal drought experience I had over a dozen years ago. I see it as Brewster said. In hindsight, it was a fantastic droughting grow which produced the best hitting buds that I have ever grown (from bag seed where the bagged bud was average), and it was 100% accidental. The plant was late germinated, early December (Southern Hemisphere) and grown outdoors on a balcony whose stone tiles I have measured on hot days, as reaching up to 50C/122F, so that's a lot of radiant heat giving it further stress. It was grown in a small dark blue ceramic pot, with potting mix (about 15L, nearly 4 gallons I guess), the dark pot would heat up badly in the sun, and every hot day the plant would be badly wilting by the afternoon. The resulting buds were quite 'airy', but appearance wise they looked like the trichomes had repeatably melted and covered the buds/sugar leaves with a 'varnish like' appearance that seemed to make them very stiff and hard. They were by far the most sticky buds I have grown. This was a plant that you could imagine in the wild, growing out of dry rock crack, beaten by wind and sun. That was because it had made itself very oily, and therefore it could deal with the adverse elements quite fine. I must add, the drought process in this case wasn't just for 10 days but the whole summer heat flowering period.
Amongst my current grow I have a Mango Sherbert, I grew one last year and it was probably my favourite, I harvested it mid April. I stopped watering her 3 days ago on the 20th March, but so far we've had rainfall, and too, she is in a bigger 50L (13 gallon) pot than the original droughted plant referred to above, so her pot will be a lot slower to dry out, but it is my intention to continue to not water her for up to her remaining 25 days till harvest, in the hope that the rain stays away and she can get some droughting stress happening over this period. So I am wishing for a lot of fine weather ahead to assist in this. I'll post some pics only if it looks like she is getting into the droughting 'zone', as who can say with growing outdoors where controlled grows are next to impossible to do. Cheers.