Droughting and its medicinal effects in cannabis

[Mayne]

i know of a member here who battled with natural peat as a substrate for while and tried to tame it,, the ph battle was too much

then, on another forum,, there is a discussion on building ones own nutes,, and another 'real scientist', the real deal, had written a program to mix the salts, etc.. long story even longer

the real scientist gave a very detailed post about using peat as a substrate and how nearly impossible it is to use effectively. because of ph and possibly other reasons

just thot i might mention that cuz i have never read about anyone else using peat,, cot my attention

edit,, and i really have no idea if we are even talkin the same thing,, ha

darn, No highjack Krissi,

but my media is 90% coco and 10% peat, (cocoloco foxfarm) which i think is what allows me to dry out like soil, without the "coccoir dry of death) I ph 5.8 and have found anything above 6.0 is bad. Runoff is always 5.8

 

[Krissi Carbone]

darn, No highjack Krissi,

but my media is 90% coco and 10% peat, (cocoloco foxfarm) which i think is what allows me to dry out like soil, without the "coccoir dry of death) I ph 5.8 and have found anything above 6.0 is bad. Runoff is always 5.8

Hi Mayne,
No high jack at all, this is what this is here for, active convos and teaching each other and learning new things or refreshing memories. Happy to have you on here. I need to catch up here I see I'm pretty far behind again. I try not to comment unless I have enough time to think lol that doesn't happen til the baby goes to sleep usually I'll be back later and see what all the fuss has been about last couple pages

 

[Maritimer]

You can see I started drought a day early

Critical Kush

• Maritimer
• Jan 3, 2022
• meja study

History of events
cuttings
MeJA
8 Day Drought
recovery and fattening

She is close to coming down.

 

[InTheShed]

Caught up and fascinating discussions! Thanks for creating this thread and replying to all the questions as they come. And I hope your house is clear of covid asap with no lingering effects!

As Maritimer mentioned in mine and Rex's thread about drought in hydro, the question is whether the plant has time to go through the full hormonal process in the limited time a plant can have roots without any water contact. I believe that is still to be determined.

Sometime this year I plan on growing small clones under the closest-to-identical conditions I can, drought one, and have buds tested from both. It's not a lab but it's the best I can do.

It is a completely controlled drought for 11 days at week 7 of flower.

I think you should have the mods edit this post as it's the first time you mention anything about the method. 11 days is how it happened to turn out, but not how the timing is actually determined. It's completely based on leaf wilt angle (LWA) rather than any prescribed days. Even the 7 weeks of flower isn't accurate without mentioning the anticipated flower time of the variety Caplan was working with.

And it's important to keep in mind that Caplan was in peat/coco/perlite indoors in plastic pots under controlled environmental conditions. Different from how most of us grow. My cloth bag outside in the sun dried much faster and probably should have been fertigated after only 4 or 5 days tops. Unfortunately I was mis-measuring the LWA and it was droughted too long to recover.

My main issue is how hard it is to rehydrate once it dries out. Drives me nuts!

Have you tried using a pinch of yucca powder dissolved in water? I just got some and will give it a try next time that happens to my ProMix. I got it as a surfactant to replace dish soap, but I'll see how it works with bone-dry HP.

 

[013]

A simple twist for hempy. Rig up a bottom drilled out hempy pot and place it inside a slighter larger regular hempy pot then you will be home free on your experiments. The second hempy pot would contain zero perlite, it’s merely the reservoir. You can weigh the plant minus the rez water weight also.

other options 1) lightly spray mist the perlite or 2) you could do dip and drain with the container in a container concept

obviously the question then becomes whether to use plain water or fertigation for above

 

[nivek]

It's completely based on leaf wilt angle (LWA) rather than any prescribed days.

i still do not agree with this,, imo

imo, he used the substrate he used to achieve this length of drought,, and he mentions that other types of substrates need to be adjusted in their watering techniques to achieve this length of time

i steadfastly stand on the premise that the length of time is critical,,

peace and love

 

[PlanetJ]

As Maritimer mentioned in mine and Rex's thread about drought in hydro, the question is whether the plant has time to go through the full hormonal process in the limited time a plant can have roots without any water contact. I believe that is still to be determined.

I was wondering about eb flow or RDWC to achieve that, and only give enough water to achieve the desired wilt angle .. that would be some serious trial and error, or having enough patience to sit there and observe how long they can go without, and how much you then then have to circulate to not get her back to normal but also not worsen it further .. seems like a timer and patience problem mainly.
Im not well enough into soil science to know if nutes would still be available with the little water they do get, but I would assume so.

 

[nivek]

I was wondering about eb flow or RDWC to achieve that, and only give enough water to achieve the desired wilt angle .. that would be some serious trial and error, or having enough patience to sit there and observe how long they can go without, and how much you then then have to circulate to not get her back to normal but also not worsen it further .. seems like a timer and patience problem mainly.
Im not well enough into soil science to know if nutes would still be available with the little water they do get, but I would assume so.

anything full on hydro i cant imagine how to achieve a droughting

 

[InTheShed]

and he mentions that other types of substrates need to be adjusted in their watering techniques to achieve this length of time

You might have read the report more closely than I did because I didn't notice that. He says:
"Comparable results can be expected using leaf wilting as a drought-stress indicator with fertigation triggered at a leaf angle 50% higher than in its turgid state. This method for administering drought stress and the results of this study should be applicable for similar varieties of chemovar II cannabis"

and:
"In the present study, leaf wilting was an effective indicator of plant stress. At the irrigation threshold for the drought treatment, plants were visibly wilted, and the indicator leaf angle increased by 50% from the turgid leaf angle. Using wilting as a drought-stress indicator may therefore be an effective method in cannabis production, particularly because it is easily measured."

Can you point me to where he talks about other techniques to get to 11 days rather than 50% LWA?

 

[ppm Charlie]

Caught up and fascinating discussions! Thanks for creating this thread and replying to all the questions as they come. And I hope your house is clear of covid asap with no lingering effects!

As Maritimer mentioned in mine and Rex's thread about drought in hydro, the question is whether the plant has time to go through the full hormonal process in the limited time a plant can have roots without any water contact. I believe that is still to be determined.

Sometime this year I plan on growing small clones under the closest-to-identical conditions I can, drought one, and have buds tested from both. It's not a lab but it's the best I can do.

I think you should have the mods edit this post as it's the first time you mention anything about the method. 11 days is how it happened to turn out, but not how the timing is actually determined. It's completely based on leaf wilt angle (LWA) rather than any prescribed days. Even the 7 weeks of flower isn't accurate without mentioning the anticipated flower time of the variety Caplan was working with.

And it's important to keep in mind that Caplan was in peat/coco/perlite indoors in plastic pots under controlled environmental conditions. Different from how most of us grow. My cloth bag outside in the sun dried much faster and probably should have been fertigated after only 4 or 5 days tops. Unfortunately I was mis-measuring the LWA and it was droughted too long to recover.

Have you tried using a pinch of yucca powder dissolved in water? I just got some and will give it a try next time that happens to my ProMix. I got it as a surfactant to replace dish soap, but I'll see how it works with bone-dry HP.

I use liquid yucca all the time. I helps incredibly when wetting peat mixes but I also use it during nute/watering events. The 420 seem to really love it. I guess it helps them uptake moisture and nutes more efficiently (420 seem happier with yucca). I any case, I add it at each watering/nute event in recommended "drench" proportions (1 Tbsp/gal, the product = Yucca Wet). I bought some powdered yucca recently too. Thought I'd try that when I run out of the liquid yucca in the water/nute mix. I am sold on yucca as an amendment, 420 love it.

 

[Azimuth]

Have you tried using a pinch of yucca powder dissolved in water? I just got some and will give it a try next time that happens to my ProMix. I got it as a surfactant to replace dish soap, but I'll see how it works with bone-dry HP

I grow aloe and use that, but it's still a hassle. I'm liking my ALM (Aged Leaf Mold) much better!

 

[ppm Charlie]

i know of a member here who battled with natural peat as a substrate for while and tried to tame it,, the ph battle was too much

then, on another forum,, there is a discussion on building ones own nutes,, and another 'real scientist', the real deal, had written a program to mix the salts, etc.. long story even longer

the real scientist gave a very detailed post about using peat as a substrate and how nearly impossible it is to use effectively. because of ph and possibly other reasons

just thot i might mention that cuz i have never read about anyone else using peat,, cot my attention

edit,, and i really have no idea if we are even talkin the same thing,, ha

I use peat/perlite mix all the time. Some pH fluctuations, however, I "tamed" them. I am quite happy. Coco is too much work alone.

 

[Azimuth]

I use peat/perlite mix all the time. Some pH fluctuations, however, I "tamed" them. I am quite happy. Coco is too much work alone.

Tamed them how?

 

[InTheShed]

(1 Tbsp/gal, the product = Yucca Wet).

My RAW yucca powder must be a lot more concentrated since I'm only supposed to use .06g/gallon as I recall. Like a 32nd of a teaspoon or something. Haven't tried it yet though.

 

[nivek]

You might have read the report more closely than I did because I didn't notice that. He says:
"Comparable results can be expected using leaf wilting as a drought-stress indicator with fertigation triggered at a leaf angle 50% higher than in its turgid state. This method for administering drought stress and the results of this study should be applicable for similar varieties of chemovar II cannabis"

and:
"In the present study, leaf wilting was an effective indicator of plant stress. At the irrigation threshold for the drought treatment, plants were visibly wilted, and the indicator leaf angle increased by 50% from the turgid leaf angle. Using wilting as a drought-stress indicator may therefore be an effective method in cannabis production, particularly because it is easily measured."

Can you point me to where he talks about other techniques to get to 11 days rather than 50% LWA?

ok,, both good q's but for sure i know the facts are there

i will dig further in the a.m.

glad to have you in the discussion,, so fun to chat actual science,,

edit,, darn,, darned if i can find it but i know i read it,, so critical tho,, indeed,, i gonna chat up the doc ,, he might answer to a local

 

[Azimuth]

My RAW yucca powder must be a lot more concentrated since I'm only supposed to use .06g/gallon as I recall. Like a 32nd of a teaspoon or something. Haven't tried it yet though.

I would think it would be. I took a bunch of aloe leaves, filet them and left them to dry to see if I could make some dehydrated aloe powder. Basically got absolutely nothing.

So, it must take quite a bit of raw yucca. Though I've never used it. Would imagine its like aloe in consistency?

 

[PlanetJ]

anything full on hydro i cant imagine how to achieve a droughting

Assume the plant uses 100ml water per hour. Give it 50ml per hour. The result should be a wilting plant.
I also read about using PEG in the reservoir to create osmosis stress or something like that .. just stumbled on it, still digesting and trying to fully understand

 

[ppm Charlie]

Tamed them how?

Add dolomite - slow release pH adjustment (buffer) and good source of calcium and magnesium long term.

 

[ppm Charlie]

My RAW yucca powder must be a lot more concentrated since I'm only supposed to use .06g/gallon as I recall. Like a 32nd of a teaspoon or something. Haven't tried it yet though.

I think the powder is more concentrated. That is why I wanted to try the powder - powder instructions recommend a 1/8 tsp per gallon. Seems like it would make a lot of mix for small amounts of powder. The liquid is nice for convenience but expensive when compared to the powder. Try the yucca in a watering or nute - the 420 love it.

 

[ppm Charlie]

I would think it would be. I took a bunch of aloe leaves, filet them and left them to dry to see if I could make some dehydrated aloe powder. Basically got absolutely nothing.

So, it must take quite a bit of raw yucca. Though I've never used it. Would imagine its like aloe in consistency?

I think what people do is put fresh vegetative yucca in a blender and liquefy it. Then they add it to a watering/nute or use it as a base product for making compost teas. I swear by it (yucca, in general) - as a soil/media conditioner - it is great.