Donpaul.p's Latest 400 Watt HPS Grow

damn, plenty of growers make the same mistake, the plant is just showing sex early, pistils will form at nodes as if the plant is showing its starting to flower, but its just showing sex, plants under 20-4 and 24-0 also do this but it takes much longer, all plants will show sex if kept in veg long enough, it just means their at flowering age,

i nearly stopped using glr because my plants showed sex so early, it was only because another grower told me that this is normal that i continued to use glr for the rest of the grow,
once my auto is done ill use glr again, ive read enough over the last few weeks to know that my plants will benefit more from glr than most other light schedules, i had good results last time i used it but due to growing autos ive not used it since,
 
not high tech, just getting the best from the indoor grow,

i got plenty of bananas on my own fem plant, the plant is from my own crosses that produced fem seeds, so when these buds are dry the bananas will be ripe enough to use for future fem seed projects,

so now ive seen bananas on every strain thats been in flower to long this suggests that all plants will grow bananas given long enough in flower, this means we should all be able to make fem seeds with very little effort,

look how many seeds i got from just 4 or 5 crosses, i get plenty of seeds, if i could grow outdoors id sprinkle a few seeds where i walk the dog but we just dont get the summer here anymore, so pretty pointless
so miwa, im pretty sure you will have plenty of seeds soon, more than enough to keep you going, im going to flower my auto for longer so i can see if autos will also produce bananas, if they will then ill be crossing one auto with another auto strain to make a new auto fem strain, thats my plan anyway, not sure if autos will grow bananas i guess it all depends if ruderalis has this back up gene to ensure it reproduces,
only time will tell i guess,
 
donpaul.p said:
so now ive seen bananas on every strain thats been in flower to long this suggests that all plants will grow bananas given long enough in flower, this means we should all be able to make fem seeds with very little effort,
Click to expand...

True, but it does require a little patience, lol you know I'll be attempting the same with Harlequin Jo :)
 
hells yes, I will be trying it on all my ladies . I plan on leaving a few good branches full of buds to increase the odds.:high-five:
 
donpaul.p said:
thanks for the info harley ill have a look, feeling much better today, ill check this juicing out,

kingjohn, i was looking at the bubble bags the other day, thinking about ordering a set of 5, found some pretty cheap, sounds like its a pretty easy method and should produce plenty of hash from what i got,

as for plants growing in the dark, well all i can say to that as i had a power cut for nearly 48 hours during one of my last grows, when the power came back on and i had light in the grow room i noticed my plants had grown more in them 48 hours than they had in the few days before,

i know at night plants focus on root production, so plants dont actually sleep, we cant look at them like humans
so plants do grow at night and other processes within the plant take part,

if you grew an apple tree in a 10gallon pot then the tree would only get so big, so the bigger the root mass the bigger the plant and the faster it will grow, its why outdoor plants get so big, huge root masses, we really limit width by the pot size, we can increase width with lst but without having plenty of roots it wont be taking in as much nutrients as it can do.

im only going on info i have been told, i also know for a fact my plants grew more in the 48 hours of dark then they did in the few days before under 20-4.

if it was actually down to the amount of light hours we give the plants then indoor plants would get huge under constant light, but outdoors plants get 15 hours and less per day over the veg period, so they dont get anywhere near 18 hours plus of light yet these outdoor plants get huge, sunlight plays a big part but the amount of light is never more than 15 hours and thats if you live in certain areas, plus that 15 hours of light would not be for the whole of veg, just the middle 2 weeks of veg before and after this time it would be getting less light,
then plants get shaded by trees and other plants, early in morning and late at night its getting low levels of light until the sun is higher in the sky, so we are actually giving the plants more light than they actually need.

24-0 does not produce any better results than 18-6, ill try and find the link but i came across a side by side grow and it showed that long term plants suffer under 24-0, 18-6 was found much better for the plants health and growth,

once my autos are finished im flipping back to glr, 12 hours on, 5,5 hours off, 1 hour on (this 1 hour on is not long enough to make the plant think its daytime, this would then stress the plant when the light is switched off, so just 1 hour of light prevents the plant from building up to much flowering hormones so stops it from starting to flower and it allows the plant to benefit from 12 hours of light and 12 hours of dark) then 5.5 hours off and start again,

plants show sex sooner under glr but wont go into flower, using glr makes the plant build up high levels of the flowering hormone then when you remove the 1 hour of light during dark it then goes into heavy flower production due to the built up hormones,

ok, here is a conversation i had with one of our top growers on this site
Autos benefit from every amount of light oyu can give them. They don't even seem to have a "rest period" like there non-ruderalis cousins. So 24/0 would be best for them. However, for the photo-type plants, they *DO* have, and need a rest period. It is most healthy for the plant to be in darkness when the rest period begins. Thus the more darkness you can give them the better. With the GLR schedule, the plant gets 11 hours with which to go into and out of their rest period in darkness. Even if the light comes on during this 4-hour period, it doesn't seem to harm the plant in the least.

To better explain what I'm talking about, I will do this:

Plants have normal Day/Night processes that they perform... when the Sun is up, they devote most of that time to photosynthesis, converting radiant energy into chemical energy for better storage within the plant... Now, when the Sun goes down, they can use all that stored energy, to grow new cells both above and below the soil, and make repairs to any damage they have received. It is best not to have light on the leaves to detract from this process, because when this happens, growth can slow, and repairs are made much slower, because the day process starts up and plants are not good multi-taskers in this respect. Now, after the night process is complete, the plant will go into a rest period. This can be observed as a partial wilting, or drooping of the leaves, and usually happens on a 24 hour cycle. Light on the leaves can cause this rest period to be cut short, or not exist at all.

In humans this is known as sleep deprivation. For one day, or two, it's not all that harmful, but the human can be moody, and somewhat lethargic. Over a week, lack of sleep can start to cause physiological, and mental changes that are more serious. Delirium, psychosis, and hallucinations have been observed as effects in the mind. What happens in the body can be deadly as organs start to shut down. Kidney and liver function are first affected, and you know what happens when those two organs shut down.

Plants, while not as complex, and lacking a brain and organs of an animal, do have their own organs, and still suffer from lack of their rest period. Given an extended period of time, although in plants it's much longer, they will start to show more, and more serious effects of lack of darkness for their rest period. Some studies have even shown a complete cessation of growth, and even death of the plant altogether after a long period of time. It just gives out and shuts down.

Now, the good news is that it takes about 1.5 to 2 hours to shift from night process and/or rest period into the day process. The 1 hour of light in the middle of the dark period is not enough to rouse the plant into day operations, but it is enough to break the flower cycle by destroying the hormone responsible. This gives the plant 12 hours for day process, and 12 hours for night process, and for the rest period. This results in a much more healthy plant, and we all know a healthy plant is a rapidly growing plant.
I hope that I've cleared things up for you a bit.

As far as the so called "Photoperiod" plants, allow me to shed some dark on the subject. Those that are not auto-flowering rely on the dark period to build up the correct amount of hormone that causes the flowering cycle of life. That hormone is destroyed by light. This is what causes the misconception that it is the length of the day that causes flower, when it is actually the length of the night that allows the hormone to build to a point that it saturates the correct cells, and causes the plant to shift into end-of-life. This has been found to happen with as little as 10 hours of dark. So as you can see from this finding, that is is actually not the light, but the dark allowing the hormone to build enough, that causes the shift into flower.

info was provided to me via pm from jandre
Click to expand...


6co2+6h2o in the prescence of appropriate light = c6 h12 o6+6o2, the o2 rises in the atmosphere gaining another oxygen atom and becomes ozone (o3). This is the formula for photosynthesis, if any portion of this formula is absent you have no photosynthesis and no growth.......I promise..5 hrs of direct sun light is enough for a plant to reach it's genetic potential....weed plant.
 
ok, thanks for comments everyone,

ive changed my light schedule down from 20-4 to 18-6, im just letting this auto flower then ill go down to glr,
just changing from 20-4 to 17-7 has made a big difference, the plants look a darker green, the clones leaves dont look wrinkled anymore, i had several plants growing the same height, now ive been under 17-7 for 2 days the plants seem to be growing much better, even the 2ltr dwc hempie seems much better than it was, their was nothing wrong with it but all the plants now look a nicer shade of green,
they have grown quite a bit also but could be due to roots getting more mass plus anything else that might of changed, nutes have been the same due to them been seedlings,
ive defoliated the crap out of 2 of my plants, 1 is a clone to compare with another clone, the other is 2 sleestack cross skunk, one has been stripped naken and the other left as it is,
now the one thats been stripped naked seems to be getting taller than the other one, but the other one is getting more bushy, ill give it a week or so without touching the naked plant and see how it compares after this time,

i took a couple of pics of my reveg clones, i thought id show you all some of the crazy growth i get with my reveg,

also with the bananas you dont need to make the whole plant grow bananas, just a few lower buds, just remember these bananas are very hard to see, on the plant i just harvested i had many bananas, i checked the plant every 2 days all over and when i seen bananas i harvested, wasnt planning on getting pollen from it but when i harvested it their was bananas all over the place, some had opened and some had not, luckily ive not got fans blowing in my room as i got nothing in flower apart from the auto so luckily pollen didnt spread,

you need to time these bananas right, usually if you see them give them a few days on the plant still then when you harvest they will continue to develop as the plant dries out and should be viable when you want to use them, but just remember these are not regular male flowers and you dont get much pollen from them,

so you can either leave them on the plant until you see a couple of bananas open then harvest, be careful not to knock all the pollen out of them as you will end up losing it all,
what i do is leave them on plant till their ready to open or until a few have opened, i then carefully cut that bud off the plant and using sharp knife push the bananas off the stem and onto the bud of the female plant you want fem seeds from, then as the bananas dries out it releases its pollen directly into that bud, it wont be much pollen but enough to turn a small bud into seed, so keep checking plants and you should see these bananas, just make sure you give them chance to develop before you remove them from where their growing, they pretty much fall off easy with a little prod with knife,

@runewulfsong, when i get back home ill sort that number out for you mate, its wrote down next to laptop, been bit busy and been helping me parents with their garden and putting fencing up, so ill pm you the numbers so you can keep track of it,

now these pics are of a clone i took, the clone was a small stem when i cut it from the flowering plant, i harvested the plant and was left with tiny shoots on the main stem, i cut these off and cloned them and put them back into veg,
so here you can see the crazy growth im getting, this has happened with all my reveg plants, i get branches growing out the stems of other leaves, so some leaves will have 2 or 3 sets of extra leaves growing off the stem of the main leaf,

the pics will show you what i mean
PICT3050.JPG

PICT3049.JPG

PICT3048.JPG
 
you could, you dont get much pollen out the bananas though, the normal male flowers will pollenate a whole room, but these bananas produce a lot less pollen for some reason,

the best option would be to have the other plant next to it and every couple of days give the plant with bananas on it a tap so the pollen falls on the bud you want to get seeds from, you wont do a whole plant with a couple of bananas, 1 banana would probably do one or 2 buds, very little pollen, but a few bananas will get you plenty of seeds,

another option that works well is to wait until the bananas are open, then gently cut them from the plant and actually put the whole bananas on the pistils so its resting on the bud you want seeds from, then gently move it around on top of the bud so it touches the pistils, this method i find gets more pollen onto the bud and will ensure you have at least that bud full of seeds.

like with the last plant i harvested i found a couple of bananas that was open, i gently removed these from the buds and put them on the bud on the plant i want seeds from which is my auto purple cheese, ill leave it for a few days to dry out and release more pollen then when i see the pistils starting to die ill give it a gently spray with water to destroy any pollen thats not been used,

ive got a few bananas drying at the minute, they wasnt open but i found them after i harvested a few buds so got them drying to see if they will open up,

so im pretty sure banana pollen wont ruin a whole crop as they produce very little pollen, i think their job is to just produce a seed on the bud the banana grew from, their not needed to release a lot of pollen, its just a back up for the plant to ensure it reproduces, so chances are its just their to grow 1 or 2 seeds to ensure that plant continues to reporduce,

at least ive never got huge amounts of pollen, you cant see it falling out as much as you can with regular male flowers
 
well gentle as in as gentle as men can be,
the bananas come away very easy from where their attached to the buds or stems, so id either gently poke them off so they fall onto some paper then slide 1 or 2 onto a bud you want seeds from,

or if possible hold the bud with banana on it over the bud you want seeds from and give it a gentle poke with a knife or pencil and it will just fall off and hopefully land on the bud, the method i use is wait till the banana opens then either tap it over the bud or tap it onto some dark shiny paper so you can see the pollen, you wont get much,

you could remove the bananas before they open but theirs the risk that the pollen wont be viable, so either wait till one or 2 open then remove the lot or just keep them on the plant and use them when they open, as long as you dont have a fan blowing on the plant you will be able to collect the pollen, with normal male flowers i just hold a pot under the male flowers and tap the plant and lots of pollen falls out, but bananas dont produce that much, so putting the whole banana on the bud i find is the easiest option unless you tap them onto some shiny paper than use a make up brush or que tip/cotton bud as we call them here and dip it in pollen then rub it on the pistils,

you will know if its done the job as the pistils will die within usually 12 hours but after 24 hours you will know for sure as the pistils will all die and calyx will swell and you will actually see the seeds forming, on this auto purple cheese i put banana on it looks like the seeds are 2 fat for the calyx, i can see the green seed splitting the middle of the calyx open, hopefully the seeds will keep growing and be ok,

i cant see you having problems, just make sure the bananas are ready to open,
ill try and take some pics of my bananas tomorrow, ill see if my camera will get close enough, if not ill borrow a decent camera on friday then i can show you the bananas and ill take pics of how i pollenate the buds,
 
cool, i cant see you having any problems,

my auto has 1 bud site thats now full of seeds, banana done its trick on that bud, its packed with seeds, the seeds will be popping out the buds before the plants is harvested so ill have to put something under to catch them before i lose them on the floor,

so hopefully that means that these seeds will also be fem, wont be auto, well maybe 1 out of 5 will be auto as im told you get mainly none auto when you cross regular plant with an auto,
more seeds to add to my collection, but ill be growing some of these out pretty quick so i can see what the results are from my own fem strain and this purple cheese auto, could be some interesting results,

if they dont turn out auto then hopefully they will take on the rapid growth of the auto and possibly some of the purple traits if it does produce purple buds.

im hoping the gdp cross purple cheese will give me some purple bud seeds but only time will tell i guess, i think i need a bigger grow room or at least find somewhere else to grow, to many seeds and got to wait long time between grows,

but i got years to grow so as long as i keep producing my own meds and getting good results then i cant really complain, its much better than buying it of some back street dealer charging stupid prices for 8ths that weight 2.7g, what a joke, £10 per gm here at the minute, my mate bought an 8th and i weighed it and it was 2.7g, we took it out the bag and it was all bits of thin sticks thrown in with it as well, so probably more like 2g that was worth paying for,
it was proper cheese though, some real strong stuff,
 
Yeah, average here is $10 p/gram at a dispensary, but the weights are based on 28g oz, so an either is 3.5g. When I was a teen, that was the cost for high quality 1/4oz, so yeah, it's pretty sad. But I agree with the grow space needs. I'm thinking long term of putting some cfls under a table for growing out seeds to test and putting other plants up on the table an allowing to grow to the top, more or less. Or at least that is one thought process.

I'm surprised 1/5 auto and not 1/4, as that seems to be a generic odds breakdown for mendelian genetics, but a lot can come into play.
 

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