Doc Bud's High Brix Q&A With Pictures

I am not sure if anyone would be interested to see some ongoing
photo’s of a 7 gal felt (finished), 5 gal felt (finished) & 3 gal felt (still growing)
FELT Pot Harvest Root Systems ?

I DO NOT use the Kit but use HP with some additives along with OminA, B-vit,
Kelp, Humic /Fulvic and others :)

I have noticed my TAP Root seem to be very short in the Felt’s
Wondering if this is simply a result of the fabric pot across the board
(Brix or Not)

I do see the same 5 or 6 week issues and noticed the same
pick up once up potted, plants are not Root Bound when Up-Potted.
NOTE Flushing has never helped, only the up-pot

Also having problems at Finish, seems to slow but it’s too late to up pot by then.

Anyway the pictures I have are of the root systems removed and soil/medium
shaken off and placed back inside of pot to show the amount of roots within the pot.

I can post the pictures if anyone is interested.

EDIT:

I really like the Felt Smart pots for the ease of up-potting.
The small 1 gal felts are not expensive and I simply cut the
felt off when up-potting.

The plastic side lining mentioned above is a good idea I
will have to experiment with, THANKS
 
Gazoo said:
I am not sure if anyone would be interested to see some ongoing
photo’s of a 7 gal felt (finished), 5 gal felt (finished) & 3 gal felt (still growing)
FELT Pot Harvest Root Systems ?

I DO NOT use the Kit but use HP with some additives along with OminA, B-vit,
Kelp, Humic /Fulvic and others :)

I have noticed my TAP Root seem to be very short in the Felt’s
Wondering if this is simply a result of the fabric pot across the board
(Brix or Not)

I do see the same 5 or 6 week issues and noticed the same
pick up once up potted, plants are not Root Bound when Up-Potted.
NOTE Flushing has never helped, only the up-pot

Also having problems at Finish, seems to slow but it’s too late to up pot by then.

Anyway the pictures I have are of the root systems removed and soil/medium
shaken off and placed back inside of pot to show the amount of roots within the pot.

I can post the pictures if anyone is interested.

EDIT:

I really like the Felt Smart pots for the ease of up-potting.
The small 1 gal felts are not expensive and I simply cut the
felt off when up-potting.

The plastic side lining mentioned above is a good idea I
will have to experiment with, THANKS
Click to expand...

So you're having similar issues with fabric.....I'm glad I'm not using fabric pots!

These pictures are all of plants grown in "normal" hard plastic pots. Not the best looking plants....they could use more trichome formation and better overall health and yield, but not bad. Lord knows I've got a ton of problems on every grow, what with this crazy low potassium High Brix soil and the extreme emphasis on environmental perfection.... but at least my roots are decent.

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I am having second thoughts on the fabrics also.

If the roots keep pruning, is the plant putting more energy into making new roots? especially during flower.

If left alone in plastic, they keep growing, but not because the of being air pruned, they just do what they were intended to.

Don't get me wrong, I have been using them for at least the lest 15 grows with no problem and some fantastic bud.
mainly concerned about the extra energy the plant is using on them.
 
Doc Bud said:
Are you using saucers under the pots? It's very important to get the wicking action when watering. Also, perhaps you should up your feedings in anticipation of the fade you're getting.
Click to expand...

I do use saucers under them in the 7's,I dunk them in a bucket when in the 1's

When I water if I am giving a gal I put half in the saucer and the other half down the top if giving a deep drench which is 2 gal I put 1gal in the saucer and a gal down the top.

I have tried to feed to head off the fade,also added bloodmeal and Epsom still seem to have problems Honestly I feel I have tried everything deff could be wrong I am just going to go plastic and if that doesn't seem to help then I will journal with daily pics and hopefully the experts can help me solve my issue

Thanks for the help
:Namaste:
 
Hash Hound said:
I am having second thoughts on the fabrics also.

If the roots keep pruning, is the plant putting more energy into making new roots? especially during flower.

If left alone in plastic, they keep growing, but not because the of being air pruned, they just do what they were intended to.

Don't get me wrong, I have been using them for at least the lest 15 grows with no problem and some fantastic bud.
mainly concerned about the extra energy the plant is using on them.
Click to expand...

Thinking out loud

Maybe with Fabric Pots one should take into consideration the
amount of lost volume caused by Air Pruning.

Am I thinking correctly when I consider the lost area around the outer edge
of the pot that the roots turn away from thinking they are approaching
the surface ( air pruning) ?

I think this is what I am seeing so maybe a good rule of thumb would
be to use a Fabric Pot 25 to 50% bigger then needed in Plastic Pot ?

EDIT:
It just occurred to me I can test this by wrapping the outside of the
Felt pot with shrink wrap next time I see the issues and if I see the usual
pick up I will know the plant IS Root Bound even though I don't see the
signs of wrapping roots
 
Gazoo said:
Thinking out loud

Maybe with Fabric Pots one should take into consideration the
amount of lost volume caused by Air Pruning.
Click to expand...

That's my conclusion. At first I thought 25% was a bit too high, but more I think about my harvests that seems to be about the amount of wasted soil with few to no roots. The top of soil seems to have fewer roots too.

Tomorrow I'm going to use your idea and wrap the sides with plastic. Such a simple solution. +reps for that.
 
Something just occurred to me about fabric pots ...

What if it isn't the "air pruning" - what if it's dry soil? The root tips will be seeking moisture, and if they all encounter dry soil at the edges of the pot, then could that be signaling the plant in ways we don't want? Does that make the plant think it's in an arid zone, or drought? :hmmm:

I did two plants in 10 gallon fabric pots and I had to adjust for drying time - they needed more water and they needed more attention to the edges. In a plastic pot, the edges dry out, but that's also where the water runs down, and it doesn't have anything to dry it out after it's soaked. That zone tends to nurture roots better than it does in a breathing pot. Even air pots have plastic to hold moisture against the rim.

So maybe having a rootball surrounded by dry air messes with the communication between roots and plant, and therefore our methods don't work like they should.

Dunno ...
 
Graytail said:
What if it isn't the "air pruning" - what if it's dry soil? The root tips will be seeking moisture, and if they all encounter dry soil at the edges of the pot, then could that be signaling the plant in ways we don't want? Does that make the plant think it's in an arid zone, or drought? :hmmm:

I did two plants in 10 gallon fabric pots and I had to adjust for drying time - they needed more water and they needed more attention to the edges. In a plastic pot, the edges dry out, but that's also where the water runs down, and it doesn't have anything to dry it out after it's soaked. That zone tends to nurture roots better than it does in a breathing pot. Even air pots have plastic to hold moisture against the rim.

So maybe having a rootball surrounded by dry air messes with the communication between roots and plant, and therefore our methods don't work like they should.
Click to expand...

I would concur with said statement. It is the edges of my pots that dried out first. A gap was formed at the sides. I never added soil to the sides of pots, only top dressed. So that sounds about right, dry barrier around the sides stopped my plant from being as root bound as I would like. That dry area was a regular sight in my room, thought nothing of it. Did those pots really oxygenate my roots?

For all fabric I was still able to pull 6.8oz from 2 plants, those pots obviously work. Perfect time for experimentation!
 
Good morning Gang! Yes about the soft pot dilemma...Never used them , but a lot are having great success with them. My concern was always transplanting from them would be a PITA for sure. The air pruning works but not sure how well in softies. With the "Rootbuilders" I use , the root mass is something to behold. The roots are continuously air pruned for great success. As you all know , these are hard pots with little 'dibbits' that the root ends seek out , that's where they find the o2 and get air pruned.
My experience with hard sided pots was great right up until a couple pots/plants in a grow got Root Aphids....bad, bad, bad with hard pots....reason...the roots coil around the sides searching for moisture , correct, these 'main' feeder roots, when chewed on by the aphids will 'cut off' any other roots attached to them if ya know what I mean ..causing that whole branch to die along with any roots 'downstream' of it. The plant will suffer big time and will eventually die off. But if the aphids chew on roots in softies or 'rootbuilder' style pots only smaller sections of the root mass are affected. Ever since I had this episode with the root aphids I'm afraid of hard pots. That soil was also a homemade super soil and NOT our coveted DBHBB soil. Anyhow , just my 2 on softies and things. Have a great day gang.....Cheers.
 
Graytail said:
Something just occurred to me about fabric pots ...

What if it isn't the "air pruning" - what if it's dry soil? The root tips will be seeking moisture, and if they all encounter dry soil at the edges of the pot, then could that be signaling the plant in ways we don't want? Does that make the plant think it's in an arid zone, or drought? :hmmm:

I did two plants in 10 gallon fabric pots and I had to adjust for drying time - they needed more water and they needed more attention to the edges. In a plastic pot, the edges dry out, but that's also where the water runs down, and it doesn't have anything to dry it out after it's soaked. That zone tends to nurture roots better than it does in a breathing pot. Even air pots have plastic to hold moisture against the rim.

So maybe having a rootball surrounded by dry air messes with the communication between roots and plant, and therefore our methods don't work like they should.

Dunno ...
Click to expand...

I had kind of the same thought and I would keep pot moist like the top of the soil by spraying with pump sprayer daily did it for 7-8 weeks never seen the roots like I thought I would they would pop out of the sides here and there but would disappear within a day or two

Glad to see I am not crazy and I am not the only one
New cans are here so going to be busy weekend
Think I may even transplant my 1's into the new 1's I mean I will clone but just as an experiment
We will see
:Namaste:
 
Highpotanoose said:
I do use saucers under them in the 7's,I dunk them in a bucket when in the 1's

When I water if I am giving a gal I put half in the saucer and the other half down the top if giving a deep drench which is 2 gal I put 1gal in the saucer and a gal down the top.

I have tried to feed to head off the fade,also added bloodmeal and Epsom still seem to have problems Honestly I feel I have tried everything deff could be wrong I am just going to go plastic and if that doesn't seem to help then I will journal with daily pics and hopefully the experts can help me solve my issue

Thanks for the help
:Namaste:
Click to expand...

Gazoo said:
Thinking out loud

Maybe with Fabric Pots one should take into consideration the
amount of lost volume caused by Air Pruning.

Am I thinking correctly when I consider the lost area around the outer edge
of the pot that the roots turn away from thinking they are approaching
the surface ( air pruning) ?

I think this is what I am seeing so maybe a good rule of thumb would
be to use a Fabric Pot 25 to 50% bigger then needed in Plastic Pot ?

EDIT:
It just occurred to me I can test this by wrapping the outside of the
Felt pot with shrink wrap next time I see the issues and if I see the usual
pick up I will know the plant IS Root Bound even though I don't see the
signs of wrapping roots
Click to expand...

Graytail said:
Something just occurred to me about fabric pots ...

What if it isn't the "air pruning" - what if it's dry soil? The root tips will be seeking moisture, and if they all encounter dry soil at the edges of the pot, then could that be signaling the plant in ways we don't want? Does that make the plant think it's in an arid zone, or drought? :hmmm:

I did two plants in 10 gallon fabric pots and I had to adjust for drying time - they needed more water and they needed more attention to the edges. In a plastic pot, the edges dry out, but that's also where the water runs down, and it doesn't have anything to dry it out after it's soaked. That zone tends to nurture roots better than it does in a breathing pot. Even air pots have plastic to hold moisture against the rim.

So maybe having a rootball surrounded by dry air messes with the communication between roots and plant, and therefore our methods don't work like they should.

Dunno ...
Click to expand...

I've had similar thoughts to all of these and think there is merit to it. I have 5 gal, 7 gal, and 10 gal soft pots right now in my flower tray. I also have several clones in the dome that will get the solid pot treatment start to finish to do my own comparison.

Please post your findings/experiences here guys. I'm curious to get to the bottom of it myself.
 
Hey Governmentchz, I use fabric containers and noticed if I water top down only the bottom third gets wet. The medium will be soaked but it's like there's too much surface tension on the inside of the pot. I think the material gets 'clogged' in a way, even by minerals, allowing water to come straight off the sides.

I dunk my containers for the first part of watering into a wide Tupperware container... I think used for underbed storage. Then water top down until I see decent drain. My pots dry much more evenly this way. I keep up with it outdoors by soaking the outside of the container with my hose.
Not running highbrix yet but I am using Promix hp.
 
Well, this round, I've been putting a quart or so of 1/4 trans water around the edge of each pot about a day sooner than I would normally water/feed. Then proceed the following day with my normal regimen. My plants are all super-lime green so far, but I just flipped to 11/13 yesterday so we'll see in about 3 weeks if it makes any difference.
 
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