Some of Doc's older threads explain a lot more of what we're trying to accomplish, and how it was developed.
Doc Bud: All Organic High Brix
Doc Bud: All Organic High Brix
Doc Bud's High Brix Q&A With Pictures
- Thread starter Doc Bud
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ClosedCircuit
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Where are you getting chelated nutrients from? We're feeding the soil biota, same as LOS.
The hi-brix site, I guess I can't speak for Docs kit, specifically mentions a "chelation agent."
SO I guess that leads to another question. Is there much of a problem in the Hi-Brix community about non-uniformity?
Edit: damn no weed before posting and all sorts of errors on my part. didn't find what you were talking about, I mis read. I think I got suckered into a faux high brix websit and took bait line and sinker? LOL feed da soil
Link was not what I thought
Hmm ... looks similar to Cat drench. They're trying to keep the ion balance in a state where more nutrients are available? Not locked up in the colloids?
In any case, that's not us.
We're following Dr Carey Reams.
In any case, that's not us.
We're following Dr Carey Reams.
ClosedCircuit
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Specifically speaking about the "Hi-Brix" brand, isn't there still some worry about plants being fed fertilizers not interacting naturally with microbes i.e. the release of exudates because they are getting all their nutrients from artificial feeding?
I was aware Doc had his own nutrient kit, but I assumed there was still some use of chelation compounds.
How would you all distinguish living soil from hi-brix then?
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- #4,930
You're making some assumptions that aren't correct. My kit is designed to feed the soil. Period. Therefore, your question about "why feed the plant when you can feed the soil" is not a valid question. We do feed the soil.
I don't know who those guys on that website are, neither do I use their products, including and especially the "chelation agent."
Here's what I do:
test the soil
Amend the soil
encourage/maintain microbial action in the soil via drenches and foliar feeding.
It's all about nature and living soil.
So, I can't really answer your questions other than to say that they aren't targeted to what we're doing at all.
What's in my kit?
Amendment designed around Promix HP myco: Limestone, SRP, Biochar, Kelp meal, trace elements and a few other things, but mostly limestone.
Drenches: mostly fish hydrolysate but also some naturally occurring Chilean Nitrate and in the case of one drench, Ammonium phosphate and ammonium sulfate.
Foliars: fish hydrolysate, phosphoric acid, dextrose, naturally occuring PGR's derived from Kelp and Calcium Nitrate (Ca dissociated due to low pH)
There isn't a chelating agent used anywhere, in anything. We're all about feeding the soil, keeping it alive and letting the soil feed the plant.
The difference between what I'm doing and a TLO approach is that I emphasize minerals and microbes, while TLO emphasizes microbes and organic matter. We're both natural and organic....but without the minerals, high brix cannot be achieved.....PERIOD.
Again, I have no affiliation with the website you linked to, I don't use their products, my products have no chelating agents.....and I do focus on feeding the soil, not feeding the plant.
It's actually published somewhere in one of Doc's threads - I can't remember which one. He posted the results of the lab test on Pro-Mix HP and the recommended amendment ratios to reach ideal.
But you won't find a cheaper way to accomplish it. If my 50 gallons of soil needs 350 grams of something as one of the ingredients, where am I gonna get 350 grams? There are more than a dozen components to the amendment. Doc gets it in bulk and breaks it into portions for us.
But you won't find a cheaper way to accomplish it. If my 50 gallons of soil needs 350 grams of something as one of the ingredients, where am I gonna get 350 grams? There are more than a dozen components to the amendment. Doc gets it in bulk and breaks it into portions for us.
ClosedCircuit
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Precision. Otherwise same/same.
Just based on the somewhat long amendment list Paka provided would you be ok with a the assessment that Hi-Brix involves speeding up the availability of nutrients other wise available in an established no-till Living Soil set up?
Mahalo as always doc
Not that I know squat, but wouldn't it depend on the living soil composition?
With Doc's kit you have a specific set of minerals/amendments. They are "engineered" to achieve a specific balance and optimum results. I would think living soil, or not, can be quite variable (less calcium, more potassium, etc.). Or maybe not...
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- #4,936
Paka's list was actually short.....
There is no "speeding up" process. It's quite simple:
1. Test the soil
2. Amend the soil properly in order to balance P and K, Ca and Mg, trace elements, CEC and ERGS. This is critical.
3. Design feeding schedule based on the crop and condition of the soil
4. Design foliar program based on crop and soil
5. The soil feeds the plant.
It's all about minerals and microbes. There is very little organic matter used in comparison to typical organic gardening and for good reason!
Organic material, especially manures and compost are WAY TOO HIGH in Potassium. Too much potassium will create a situation where the cell walls use potassium for structure instead of Calcium, which results in lower brix, lower disease/pest fighting abilities, and decreased overall plant health. BTW: when I say lower brix, I mean lower sugars, minerals and nutrients in the produce.
I came to this type of growing via organic gardening. Again, it's all about minerals.....
ClosedCircuit
New Member
Thanks for the response!
Would you clarify why you think Living Soil is not about mineralization of the soil? Do you mean just not to the extent that Hi-Brix is? Because we certainly do make efforts to do so. But I think your comment on organic matter is pretty astute. I never through of it that way.
- Thread starter
- #4,938
What are you doing to mineralize your soil?
Every soil is different! That's why it needs to be tested first, before you start adding this and that.
It is critical that Ca and Mg form a 10-1 ratio. It is critical that P and K be equal, at a certain level of pounds per acre. Adequate amounts of trace elements must be present, not too much, not too little. We want calcium to be at least 2000 lbs per acre.....3000 is better. We want K and P balanced at about 240 lbs per acre.
We will keep P levels up via foliar feeding, but will avoid feeding K, due to how each reacts in the soil and plant tissue.
Microbes LOVE limestone and biochar. Organic matter is a nuissance to them......we want them to eat rocks so they can feed the plant. Organic material, especially molasses is to your microbial population like feeding crappy fast food and candy bars to athletes.....they don't perform as well.
As for living soil, most of us can attest to our soils AGGRESSIVELY digesting leaf material in days....with white fuzzies forming quickly and leaves dissappearing in a week.
We're all about LIVING soil.....which is why we test, amend and feed the way we do.....and avoid the stuff that wrecks this, like compost, manures and other materials that cause problems.
ClosedCircuit
New Member
Maybe speeding up isn't the word. But as you said, you are testing the soil and directly adding mineral amendments to compensate. Living Soil relies on the decomposition of organic matter to reach that state...so I see what you mean now.
Do you think the additions of silicates, oyster shell, glacial dust, saponin (Aloe Vera), and other additives which boost cytokine production and promote plant health are not as effective in Living Soil as they are in Hi-Brix?
That website has its stuff made in Australia