Doc Bud: All Organic OG Kush SCROG

[Doc Bud]

Yeah Doc lead the way with tissue culture micro, student is seated and ready.

Have you used the Ice Flow heat exchanger for water cooling hoods? Anyone you know who had success? The heat is 6mo away but im already stressing from last summer. Trying to avoid ac cost.

Peace

I'll be a newbie when I start tissue culture....but I know sterile technique and have many hours of laboratory shenanigans in my past, so I should get something to happen on my third or fourth run.

I'm going to audit a class on micropropagation at the local university, which has a pretty large Ag department with Horticulture as a major.

 

[Vapedogg223]

I'll be a newbie when I start tissue culture....but I know sterile technique and have many hours of laboratory shenanigans in my past, so I should get something to happen on my third or fourth run.

I'm going to audit a class on micropropagation at the local university, which has a pretty large Ag department with Horticulture as a major.

Please forgive the dumb question, but I don't know a whole lot about the technique. From what I've read about it, I'm wondering...if you're not genetically modifying plants or trying to save the genetics of a diseased plant, what would the benefit of plant tissue culture with cannabis, since it is so easily grown from seed or cloned?

 

[Doc Bud]

Please forgive the dumb question, but I don't know a whole lot about the technique. From what I've read about it, I'm wondering...if you're not genetically modifying plants or trying to save the genetics of a diseased plant, what would the benefit of plant tissue culture with cannabis, since it is so easily grown from seed or cloned?

As things are now, Tissue Culture is pointless to the hobby or semi-professional grower. Seeds, mothers and clones are far easier to manage.

However, for a true professional grower/breeder the technique is indispensable.

Think of having a library of viable tissue for 100 strains.
Think of a breeder making a cross, saving a noting and then growing out each of the pheno's then making a mom out of the best one, or making further crosses, etc.

You can only do that if you save males and females, grow them out, etc.

You get the picture....

I'm thinking about 5 to 10 years from now. You may have noticed that I sort of "step it up" with each successive grow I journal. I've put myself on a course of "home study" in order to become an expert grower and breeder or the type of cannabis that will be commercially viable once it is legal..... Believe me, things will be different then.

 

[Vapedogg223]

As things are now, Tissue Culture is pointless to the hobby or semi-professional grower. Seeds, mothers and clones are far easier to manage.

However, for a true professional grower/breeder the technique is indispensable.

Think of having a library of viable tissue for 100 strains.
Think of a breeder making a cross, saving a noting and then growing out each of the pheno's then making a mom out of the best one, or making further crosses, etc.

You can only do that if you save males and females, grow them out, etc.

You get the picture....

I'm thinking about 5 to 10 years from now. You may have noticed that I sort of "step it up" with each successive grow I journal. I've put myself on a course of "home study" in order to become an expert grower and breeder or the type of cannabis that will be commercially viable once it is legal..... Believe me, things will be different then.

Thank you for the explanation, that's very interesting, I can see I have even more reading to do... But that does make a lot of sense now. So, would it be safe to assume that this technique is already being employed by the cannabis breeders we're familiar with?

I also didn't realize you had aspirations of becoming a breeder, but now that I think about it, it really is the natural progression for an expert grower.

 

[Doc Bud]

Thank you for the explanation, that's very interesting, I can see I have even more reading to do... But that does make a lot of sense now. So, would it be safe to assume that this technique is already being employed by the cannabis breeders we're familiar with?

I also didn't realize you had aspirations of becoming a breeder, but now that I think about it, it really is the natural progression for an expert grower.

I don't know how many Cannabis breeders are using this technique. It'll be the only person I know who does it when I start....but that certainly doesn't mean the big-time guys don't do it.

I do know some professional orchid growers. They have amazing greenhouses, a great system.....and they use Tissue Culture. One little test tube can give you thousands can of identical plants......

Or, you ship a test tube to the other side of the world so another grower can use the same genetics.....

If you have a really, truly amazing plant, you can save it forever. It's the future......well, actually, it's PART of the future.

The age of moonshine is coming to a close. We're about to enter the age of single malt scotch......moonshine growers are out of business and they don't even know it.

 

[OG13]

The age of moonshine is coming to a close. We're about to enter the age of single malt scotch......moonshine growers are out of business and they don't even know it.

What about DJ Short's moonshine? Most 'shine distillers have moved on to the green anyway....

 

[Doc Bud]

What about DJ Short's moonshine? Most 'shine distillers have moved on to the green anyway....

Good point.....

 

[HB Rob]

Doc, there has been some new data concerning cloning and tissue culture out of Oxford. Namely "the genomes of regenerant plants carry relatively high frequencies of new DNA sequence mutations that were not present in the genome of the donor plant."

According to the published data the rate of mutation may increase by a factor of 30 (compared to standard reproduction) when asexual propagation methods are employed. Whether or not this affects the cannabis grower negatively is yet to be seen. From what I can tell the majority of triggered genomic responses are in parts of the genetic sequence that respond specifically to environmental circumstances.

I am curious to see your long-term results with tissue culture, though I believe there may be observable differentiation given LARGE sample sizes. You may even create an unintended gem from your stellar genetics.

Hopefully great things come from your future work and I am grateful for all that you do for this community. As a 22-year-old studying Agricultural Economics and preparing for graduate studies, I find it is almost impossible to talk real science with cannabis growers.

Good luck and thank you.

 

[Doc Bud]

As a 22-year-old studying Agricultural Economics and preparing for graduate studies, I find it is almost impossible to talk real science with cannabis growers.

Good luck and thank you.

I know exactly what you mean! On the other hand, I often find it impossible to talk "real cannabis growing" with scientists!

Prohibition is the problem here! Only 14 states allow for legal growing.....

When we re-gain our God Given freedoms so we are allowed to grow plants that God made and said were "very good," all kinds of really smart people are going to be interested in growing Cannabis.

The shysters and hucksters who sell cheap salts in fancy bottles for 100 times their actual value will disappear and the folks who actually know stuff will make HUGE changes in they cultivation of Cannabis.

Our mindset is all wrong right now, due to prohibition. We speak of value per gram/ounce. In the future, we'll talk about price per ton, futures.......and the quality will be several orders of magnitude better than what we have now.

I've got a vision for this---won't share it all here for several reasons---but I'm telling you that this plant is going to do a great service to humanity some day, and I'm going to be among the vanguard of the new breed of grower.

In the meantime, I've got to somehow gain the knowledge and experience required to make me a legitimate expert in all facets of Cannabis horticulture....nearly all of which knowledge will come from non-cannabis related sources. We've pretty much tapped out the pot-forum expertise.....and I'm not sure we'll ever be able to reach the majority of stoner-growers.

But we're reaching some, and more will follow. Sadly, today's "dank" will be tomorrows grass clippings. Adapt or die.....that should be the motto of every professional grower right now.

 

[FrankFoster]

Doc, there has been some new data concerning cloning and tissue culture out of Oxford. Namely "the genomes of regenerant plants carry relatively high frequencies of new DNA sequence mutations that were not present in the genome of the donor plant."

According to the published data the rate of mutation may increase by a factor of 30 (compared to standard reproduction) when asexual propagation methods are employed. Whether or not this affects the cannabis grower negatively is yet to be seen. From what I can tell the majority of triggered genomic responses are in parts of the genetic sequence that respond specifically to environmental circumstances.

I am curious to see your long-term results with tissue culture, though I believe there may be observable differentiation given LARGE sample sizes. You may even create an unintended gem from your stellar genetics.

Hopefully great things come from your future work and I am grateful for all that you do for this community. As a 22-year-old studying Agricultural Economics and preparing for graduate studies, I find it is almost impossible to talk real science with cannabis growers.

Good luck and thank you.

Mutations are mostly present when excessive hormone is used to force large plants and big yields. Tissue cultures should be buffered with coconut milk to avoid the mutation factors increasing during the process. gotta watch your genetic stock when you do this process, pheno typically you can get variation from the tissue that it used. Say you grow out ten, but one seems to have better color due to sensitivity to temp stressors... 2 generations later in clones, you have can have plants that won't clone due to the weakness the breeder chose, because he loved the color purple, pardon the pun.

So the pheno for color temp stress can lead to the inability to propagate. For example... For real.

Say you tissue sample and get genes that kick the auto flower on all genes from there are auto flower on, so you can get plants that go monkey butt from the start. Now maybe the little signet flowers are everywhere and you have a plant that never really goes density, but you can tweezer pick a bowl a day forever... The plant grows these little full developed single budlets and can't ever get done... For example...for real.

But if done right, you can also make a strain auto flower and possible change the leaf shapes. Or if done absolutely right, you can start the tissue samples inside the cut base stem of a giant mother and grow out multiple variety plants on single base, say a mother Frankenstein single plant with 22 varieties of indica and Sativa as cleft grafted tissue micropropage at a 1/4 base ratio.

That would be a African base stem that was outside all summer in a 5 gallon, 1 inch stem in diameter, the stem is cut 3inches up and 4 different plants come off then after another few inches and some side shoots, the og kush branches into 4 different og varities, the diesel has 4 other desiels off it the purple/ berry has 4 different fruit varieties and the mex has 6 closest thing to sativas from there. 22 real breeds, one plant, 24/0 light. The only thing to do is then clone what you feel like and think about how to add the crazy. Keeping # low, like 1 frankenstein plus 5 in 12/12. ..for real.

 

[onegramperwat]

I know exactly what you mean! On the other hand, I often find it impossible to talk "real cannabis growing" with scientists!

Prohibition is the problem here! Only 14 states allow for legal growing.....

When we re-gain our God Given freedoms so we are allowed to grow plants that God made and said were "very good," all kinds of really smart people are going to be interested in growing Cannabis.

The shysters and hucksters who sell cheap salts in fancy bottles for 100 times their actual value will disappear and the folks who actually know stuff will make HUGE changes in they cultivation of Cannabis.

Our mindset is all wrong right now, due to prohibition. We speak of value per gram/ounce. In the future, we'll talk about price per ton, futures.......and the quality will be several orders of magnitude better than what we have now.

I've got a vision for this---won't share it all here for several reasons---but I'm telling you that this plant is going to do a great service to humanity some day, and I'm going to be among the vanguard of the new breed of grower.

In the meantime, I've got to somehow gain the knowledge and experience required to make me a legitimate expert in all facets of Cannabis horticulture....nearly all of which knowledge will come from non-cannabis related sources. We've pretty much tapped out the pot-forum expertise.....and I'm not sure we'll ever be able to reach the majority of stoner-growers.

But we're reaching some, and more will follow. Sadly, today's "dank" will be tomorrows grass clippings. Adapt or die.....that should be the motto of every professional grower right now.

Amen Brother DB!! Press on for the better of all.

Peace

 

[Vapedogg223]

I know exactly what you mean! On the other hand, I often find it impossible to talk "real cannabis growing" with scientists!

Prohibition is the problem here! Only 14 states allow for legal growing.....

When we re-gain our God Given freedoms so we are allowed to grow plants that God made and said were "very good," all kinds of really smart people are going to be interested in growing Cannabis.

Very well put Doc! And even in the states where it is legal, there's still a very real threat of arrest and prosecution by the federal authorities. And let's not forget the the other tactic they love...cvil forfeiture. So not only do you risk your freedom, you risk everything you've ever worked for. Not many scientists that aren't true believers in the cause are willing to risk it.

I see the age of cannabis prohibition coming to an end, but there is a staggering amount of money involved in the war on drugs, and I don't expect it to end quietly. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the government lash out with last ditch crackdowns in a dieing effort to hold on to the lies.

We may not be scientists, but some day the scientists will be able to do the work that's needed because of the efforts of us lowly cannabis growers, patients, caregivers, activists, etc.

 

[SimqlyComqlex]

I kill the plants when I harvest. Re-veg is interesting for sure, but not practical for me. The only time I could see myself re-vegging is if I have a super amazing plant and want to make it into a mother plant.

Hopefully, I'll get my Tissue Culture Micro-propagation thing going soon and I can store a nice library of genetics.

haha well i cant prove with this any hard research and data BUT from my experience the reveg process for a plant is much less stressful than cloning. in my experience even the most finicky plant revegs faster than one that is able to clone well.

Us stupid nieve stoners with our "weeds", when in fact we grow trees! each time i reveg a plant the growth gets faster, denser and more robust. i liken it to killing an apple tree after it produced a few apples, it just sounds silly. propogation is great and all but why waste all the invested time and energy that youve put into a living thing only to kill it when your finished, another horrible side effect of prohibition.

its funny that your open to the idea of tissue cultures being a viable alternative to keeping strains around. it seems to me the best way to keep em around would be, well, keep em around (dont kill em).

 

[Doc Bud]

haha well i cant prove with this any hard research and data BUT from my experience the reveg process for a plant is much less stressful than cloning. in my experience even the most finicky plant revegs faster than one that is able to clone well.

Us stupid nieve stoners with our "weeds", when in fact we grow trees! each time i reveg a plant the growth gets faster, denser and more robust. i liken it to killing an apple tree after it produced a few apples, it just sounds silly. propogation is great and all but why waste all the invested time and energy that youve put into a living thing only to kill it when your finished, another horrible side effect of prohibition.

its funny that your open to the idea of tissue cultures being a viable alternative to keeping strains around. it seems to me the best way to keep em around would be, well, keep em around (dont kill em).

OK....I'm interested! Do you have a journal showing your method?

 

[Icemud]

I'm interested too...would be nice for my Scrog Setup..

@doc...wouldn't it be nice to get some tissue cultures from that 2700+ year old weed that was found in the tomb in China.... still with formed trichomes and green pigmentation... wow... I def would call it mummy!

 

[slimm]

Tissue culture hobby kits sell pretty cheaply. It should be painless to begin experimenting. Another way to preserve genetics is to make S1 seeds with colloidal silver - its simple to do.

 

[Doc Bud]

Few more pics:

OG

Lemon Thai

 

[onegramperwat]

Few more pics:

OG

Lemon Thai

Nice hat

 

[OrganicTreees]

holy hell bro those colas look perfect, I couldn't even smoke bud that beautiful

Think I'm gonna copy your soil recipe

 

[onegramperwat]

holy hell bro those colas look perfect, I couldn't even smoke bud that beautiful

Think I'm gonna copy your soil recipe

Me too

Keep it simple stupid and copy DB. I keep trying to do it myself and producing half what DB is getting.