Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?

Edzzed said:
My grows have all been in Fox farms ocean forest. Referring to reservoir is a 5 gallon bucket of water which has airstones and nutes in there.
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Oh, gotcha! As I said, feel free to keep the pH in the recommended range for soil if that's what you want to do.
 
One would think it would be possible to test the theory by just growing a couple of clones from the same mother, in the same soil, same tent, except PH one and not the other? Some people are bored, and have no life, and might be up for doing such an experiment. Just saying.

:lot-o-toke:
 
Hmm. Totally geared up 4x4 with nothin to do until June. What to do.....

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Shed, you should take some time answering some of the troubleshooting threads, dealing with those people having pH lockouts. This problem is real and it happens all the time, and I am thinking of calling you in as a consultant from now on when I see them, so you can experience the world as I see it.
Making a blanket pronouncement that leads new growers to believe that they don't have to worry about pH, or they don't have to worry about regular flushing, or especially that flush near the end, that is what annoys me, because it puts grows at risk that didn't have to be. It is best to assume that you DO need to be in a certain pH range, especially when you are new at this, just to eliminate one of the variables that could go sideways in your grow. To read your flushing stuff without a full understanding also leaves a new grower with the impression that flushing is not necessary, no matter how you define it, but especially the way that I do.... and again, this has the potential to get grows in trouble, that did not need to have difficulties.
You advise people to do not do things that most nute manufacturers and grow guides recommend, and you have gotten very popular on this forum because of your way of presenting these controversial theories, as well as occasionally taking me on and calling me unscientific just for the entertainment value.

Fine. You have your following. I hope it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. Expect me to challenge you on these two key points until I leave this earthly plain as I believe your blanket advice to be harmful. It is like you intend to shock and awe with your headlines.... the NO FLUSH CLUB..... or DO WE NEED TO PH.... And then when challenged, you simply say that we are all free to do it the way we want to.... you do not back up your claims with anything other than those old worn out one sided scientific studies... nothing new... no side by sides to back up your theories... just you being you.... making proclamations.
This is your thread... I am done for now... I said my piece, again. I just hope we don't see several more over the next couple of months getting in trouble because of bad advice.
 
zeroday said:
One would think it would be possible to test the theory by just growing a couple of clones from the same mother, in the same soil, same tent, except PH one and not the other? Some people are bored, and have no life, and might be up for doing such an experiment. Just saying.

:lot-o-toke:
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Please do expirement! I have done years n years of side by sides and have found what works best for me. I usually dont even post on 420 anymore because anything n everything end up turned into a junior high pissing contest. Experiment! Then YOU know instead of trying to decipher what someone else is trying to decipher from what they read or heard.
Also research the people giving you info. If I have a question n get 2 answers from 2 people then dive into their media. If grower A grows fluffy buds, shitty plants and grower B has years of killer looking plants n rock hard buds covered in trichomes then I'd be a fool to listen to grower A....right?
I wish nothing but huge frosty yields for every grower! But sometimes you just gotta put the time in.
 
InTheShed said:
I'm curious why you keep bringing up the "flushing" issue, knowing full well that what you call flushing is completely different from my #noflushclub links, something I am clear about whenever I post it. Maybe that's why no one "calls me out" on it. The people who I'm talking to understand the difference, where you don't seem to. Oh wait! You do understand, except when you feel like chewing me out for something I'm not doing:




Buffering in the media is what allows growers not to have to pH their nutrient solution. There is nothing magical about ProMix. It's the reason that lime is added to soil. And I am waiting to read the link that says that the type of chelation changes the need to pH the nutrient solution. Since you have done all the reading, please let us read it too.


Please keep in mind that this is a discussion about plants grown in solid substrate like soil or ProMix and does not apply to hydro such as DWC, hempy, or coco, as I mentioned in the opening post.
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What a good read #noflushclub
 
Emilya, you are very confused about all sorts of things. I set up this thread up to present (not dictate) the "one sided" scientific facts on pH and how it relates to buffered substrates. I don't need to do the research to prove these scientists wrong, and anecdotal evidence is not science. I back my statements up, and these are not "controversial theories." If you think that this is completely wrong, find the research papers to back it up. Find me the research that states that nutrients chelated with amino acids do not need to be pH balanced where ones chelated with EDTA do. Not ones by nutrient manufactures, ones by plant scientists. Post them here. Post me research articles that say nutes must be pH corrected when using buffered substrates.

My #noflushclub was specifically created to counter the constant stream of posts by growers, new and experienced, who claim that feeding the plants plain water for the last two weeks was necessary to end up with good tasting buds, clean of "nute taste," in an effort to remove nutrients from the flowers before harvest. That is impossible to do, and I thought it would be a good idea to let people about to do it know that it's bro science. I am very specific when and where I post about flushing, to both newbies and experts. You are grasping at straws in an effort to make me look bad. That makes you look bad.
 
wow folks. It is so difficult seeing respected growers mud sling.( not an insult to either of you at all in any way shape or form) I love both your insights and posts and see the knowledge and experience in your grow results!!!. This makes it very difficult to add an opinion as I dont have any papers to throw at this one at all or any others that create derision. I really struggle with the wrong terms used for methods and a slip of intent can lead to a bro science being king. We are mostly doing something right judging by the many, many grows here that hit fruition and are fire. I have never had a grow go smooth yet , whether my errors , fate or darn right bad luck/planning by 3rd parties. Even by stumbling through some new attempts with medium , nutes , cultivars !( my point in question as strains are not what we grow by definition !!!!.) Flushing is a misinterpretation of what most growers think it to be and either do it because their mate does or from following advice. You cannot take nutes out of a plant !!!!! , yet indeed it written on seed breeders sites in growing advice. !!!. Curing is not 2 weeks in a jar to hopefully bring the smell back to shit dried weed but is a common practice by new growers who wrongly rushed their drying and destroyed all the terps. The point of emptying the coco, etc..is really about starting their slow death while giving them water to keep barely living without cannabalising themselves yet , this can be done a day before you chop with proper flushing out or as I choose , over 3 days on plain ph,'ed water. I know in my own mind and cells that this signals her to start hitting the supplies in storage then and when chopped she will use her dying energy to convert the chlorophyll until it dries up or is used up. 2 weeks starving them at a critical point is idiocy in my opinion ( sorry had to drop that one in but I just know this !!!!!!) flushing the medium to reset occasionally is a whole different thing and very useful to do. The ph one is a new one on me mow so I know I would love to do away with the crappy pen that I am convinced reads wrong even after calibration. I think having houseplants that got sod all but water in their crappy compost and not seeing them die is also interesting as it does suggest it is about the nute alone. ( states the obvious with a satisfied grin of no fucking idea ). just saying
love you guys , please find a happy status quo soon. peace and love
 
Elvin said:
I really don't understand why Shed is in any way wrong for sharing basic knowledge one learns in undergraduate college agronomy classes. He certainly is not responsible for newbies (or anyone else) not understanding it.
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Read very carefully and you will find that the information that has been cited as proof is very case specific, yet it has been used to make general assumptions. None of the information presented, in my opinion, deserves blanket assumptions about not needing to adjust pH, especially when his study centered in on only one particular grow medium. On the flushing thing, Shed and I mostly agree, but the name of his club causes people to misunderstand what was said there, and it has caused an alarming number of people to stop flushing their soil when needed, especially near the end. This is all I object to... blanket pronouncements... for as we all know, for every rule there is an exception. It has been my experience that MOST of us have to worry about our pH, if we are running nutes that require us to be within a certain range. To claim and to celebrate that this is not so is an untruth and not one that should be left unchallenged if we truly care about the new growers.
 
Emilya said:
Read very carefully and you will find that the information that has been cited as proof is very case specific, yet it has been used to make general assumptions. None of the information presented, in my opinion, deserves blanket assumptions about not needing to adjust pH, especially when his study centered in on only one particular grow medium. On the flushing thing, Shed and I mostly agree, but the name of his club causes people to misunderstand what was said there, and it has caused an alarming number of people to stop flushing their soil when needed, especially near the end. This is all I object to... blanket pronouncements... for as we all know, for every rule there is an exception. It has been my experience that MOST of us have to worry about our pH, if we are running nutes that require us to be within a certain range. To claim and to celebrate that this is not so is an untruth and not one that should be left unchallenged if we truly care about the new growers.
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Look up any LOS recipe and see what it says about adding lime. It says pH buffer.

An alarming number? An alarming number of people read two hashtags in my signature without clicking the links or asking what those links mean, and they then refuse to clear the nutes from their media during flower? Seriously? And all of your creative writing can't convince them otherwise? And they all come back and say, "But Shed's signature said so!"?

Still waiting for the academic links I mentioned earlier...the ones that say nutrient pH must be accounted for for buffered media and the one that differentiates amino from EDTA chelated nutes.
 
Emilya said:
Read very carefully and you will find that the information that has been cited as proof is very case specific, yet it has been used to make general assumptions. None of the information presented, in my opinion, deserves blanket assumptions about not needing to adjust pH, especially when his study centered in on only one particular grow medium. On the flushing thing, Shed and I mostly agree, but the name of his club causes people to misunderstand what was said there, and it has caused an alarming number of people to stop flushing their soil when needed, especially near the end. This is all I object to... blanket pronouncements... for as we all know, for every rule there is an exception. It has been my experience that MOST of us have to worry about our pH, if we are running nutes that require us to be within a certain range. To claim and to celebrate that this is not so is an untruth and not one that should be left unchallenged if we truly care about the new growers.
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You yourself are a new grower just read through your journal.... bro science wins
 
This is the ph of my buffered substrate before a watering of 7.8 tap
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This is after watering with 2 gallons of non ph'd water in soil with the correct amendments.

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I'm running organic soil, coco loco, coco loco/70%ffof30% I'm experimenting with a few plants with my results and opinions of the "cannibis pseudoscience" I believe it's working great for me

Need anything else? Shed has a few threads you could read... allow the subconscious to drop barriers then add theta waves to articulate your thoughts and comprehend from every perspective instead of the one you perceive to be correct based on opinions you've read.
 
Toneking said:
I just read this entire thread, and now I have a headache.

As a noob first-time grower, using Happy Frog, can I safely assume that PH isn’t a worry unless I encounter problems? My tap water is upper 7’s and I’m not going to reuse this soil.
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I am a small hobby grower without the tools to measure ph - I use litmus paper. I am collecting rainwater using that to water my two plants which are also planted in Happy Frog. I really limit the amount of tap water I use because it ph's at 8 and it is run thru a water softener.

You can take a look at the grow journal of my two plants at: Parnelli's Panama Red
 
Emilya said:
Read very carefully and you will find that the information that has been cited as proof is very case specific, yet it has been used to make general assumptions. None of the information presented, in my opinion, deserves blanket assumptions about not needing to adjust pH, especially when his study centered in on only one particular grow medium. On the flushing thing, Shed and I mostly agree, but the name of his club causes people to misunderstand what was said there, and it has caused an alarming number of people to stop flushing their soil when needed, especially near the end. This is all I object to... blanket pronouncements... for as we all know, for every rule there is an exception. It has been my experience that MOST of us have to worry about our pH, if we are running nutes that require us to be within a certain range. To claim and to celebrate that this is not so is an untruth and not one that should be left unchallenged if we truly care about the new growers.
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Weed forums are full of misinformation but Shed is not contributing to that.
People misconstruing information is on that person period. Nothing Shed has shared is incorrect and can be found in any Agronomy class.
He certainly is not responsible for those who are lacking the basic knowledge one needs to understand what they are reading.
 
Emilya said:
Sorry Shed... not my job to do your research for you. :nerd-with-glasses:

And, I defy you to find the word buffer anywhere in the SubCool Supersoil recipe. I just did a search of the entire original High Times article... the concept isn't there.
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High Times? Wow, it seems we’re all in for a scientific storm here :)

There’s nothing scientific about SubCool’s recipe. It’s a random mix of ingredients tossed up together that makes a huge impression on inexperienced grower. Great achievement in marketing, not much else :)

You wanna know what’s in your soil and if you have everything in the right balance? Test it! There’s no other way. 95% of beginners’ growing problems comes from wrong soil mix usually, cause they read how to make it on a cannabis forum or in some bullshit article written by a guy who read it on a forum. Sorry, but that’s the reality! Agronomic science is a well established field and eventually you find that those rules also apply to cannabis if you tweak them just a little bit. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel! You learn how to use it, that’s it.
 
@InTheShed has been a mentor for me since I joined this site so I am biased here. I've read many of his articles and posts and I am completely new to growing but I must say I do not feel misled and have found success with his advice and methods. I will not be flushing this grow and I will see how it works. Maybe next grow I will flush and compare. Or maybe it will taste just fine after not flushing I won't care. But at least he did some work looking into it and now I have a bit of confidence to try it where I never would have even thought of it before based on everyone so solemnly deciding it was wrong for me.

I enjoyed this post as I was quite stressed about PHing my nutes when I started out. After reading this article I still PH most of the time but if I'm lazy or tired I don't. I only use the paper strips to test and just try to keep it in a range from low 5s to 6.5. My plants are doing well despite the easy going approach to PH.

Now I don't grow in organic soil so I can't relate to @Emilya and I do find myself disagreeing with some of her articles but that is just because I have different views and outlooks than her. That doesn't make her wrong and if I did grow in organic soil I would be looking to her for advice and reading her stuff. Some people here seem to have greatly benefitted from her advice and guidance.

My point is you both obviously have a lot of experience but at different end of the spectrum and both are pushing the rules. If Emilya wants to use every single GLN product at full strength that's fine. If Shed wants to let his PH fly to 8 and dump 10grams of megacrop the day before harvest give er, see what happens and let us know so we can try if it works and we have the balls for it. At the end of the day we’re growing pot here no one will get hurt. People are free to choose who they follow here and what advice works for them so it’s all good man.
 
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