Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?

[Elmer Fud]

When growing in the ground directly outside, of course you dont need to PH. It would be irrelavant. Now if you where growing in a "cold" (not supersoil) medium outside, you will NEED to PH. Make sense ? A good super soil will have stuff like limestone dust or dolomite lime added. This acts as a natural buffer. So you wont need to PH there either. Hope this helps you understand a bit more.

 

[Toneking]

I just read this entire thread, and now I have a headache.

As a noob first-time grower, using Happy Frog, can I safely assume that PH isn’t a worry unless I encounter problems? My tap water is upper 7’s and I’m not going to reuse this soil.

 

[InTheShed]

for your headache Tone! The important post is the first one and the rest is just banter (some good, some less productive). In FFHF you do not need to pH your nutes as it includes peat moss and lime, for pH buffering.

Have a great grow!

 

[Emilya Green]

I just read this entire thread, and now I have a headache.

As a noob first-time grower, using Happy Frog, can I safely assume that PH isn’t a worry unless I encounter problems? My tap water is upper 7’s and I’m not going to reuse this soil.

depends entirely on the nutes you use

 

[InTheShed]

I'll bite...why is that?

 

[AdaminCO]

I'll bite...why is that?

Oh God... here we go again. LMAO!

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Aaaaand in this corner......

 

[InTheShed]

Some folks can't stand science. There aren't two valid sides to this, and I don't want @Toneking to get incorrect information.

If your substrate is buffered, you do not need to pH the nute solution you are using to water your plants.

 

[Toneking]

If your substrate is buffered, you do not need to pH the nute solution you are using to water your plants.

Ok. That’s pretty black and white. Is my aforementioned substrate buffered?

BTW, I’ve avidly read Shed and Emilya both since I got here, and I greatly admire you both.

 

[InTheShed]

You do not need to pH your nutes using FF Happy Frog. It is already buffered. And it doesn't matter if you use Remo, MegaCrop, Fox Farms, GH, or AN nutes.

 

[Toneking]

Thank you sir. That was my understanding after reading your initial reply. I was trying to be humorous, and sometimes that just doesn’t translate well to type.

 

[Emilya Green]

I can't tell you how many grows over the years that I have seen get in trouble because of bad pH advice or simply not even trying to adjust for it. Go ahead and follow that advice... and when you get any deficiencies later on that you can't explain, come to Shed to explain to you why pH was not a factor. I refuse to argue about it on this thread any more, since I have been accused of being anti science. Remember the one that gave you the advice not to pH adjust... I will just sit back and watch, with a little prayer on the side for your grow.

 

[InTheShed]

You're not even pH'ing your nutes now!

I am having one of my best grows EVER! I am in relatively small 5 gallon soil containers enhanced with @Vulx , using tap water with no adjustments for chlorine or pH,

pH of the medium can be a factor where pH of the nutes are not.

If anyone wants to continue to pH their nutes, they should feel free. But there is no reason they need to if they are using a buffered substrate such as a commercial soil or ProMix.

 

[Emilya Green]

You're not even pH'ing your nutes now!

Megacrop does not require pH adjusting in soil... that is the only reason. When I ran FF soils and nutes, if I didn't pH adjust the grows would have been terrible. Be careful of issuing blanket advice... You are going to get a lot of growers into difficulties with this.

 

[Toneking]

So far I’m not having any issues, although I know my water is mid 7’s out of the tap. I’ve been letting it sit out (I mix it after I water, it sits until the girls get thirsty again) and I’ve been letting them drink as Emilya has suggested, slowly, patiently, making sure the outer edges are the wettest at finish, trying to turn that root ball dirt over.

Thank you both for helping me immensely on this first grow.

 

[InTheShed]

Megacrop does not require pH adjusting in soil.

Is there some sort of scientific reason for this? You are contradicting their website:
"You may want to add some pH adjuster to make sure the nutrient solution being delivered to the plants is between 5.5-6.5 pH for best absorption, this depends on your water supply and is unique to each individual farm."

 

[Emilya Green]

for best absorption,

and if you read further about the new aminochelated nutes, you will find that unlike salt based nutes, these new nutes are available from 5.0-8.0 pH. They don't lock out due to pH like traditional nutes, and as stated on their website, you can just get them to absorb better if you get them near the internal pH of the plant, 6.1 pH.
Since this grow in question today is FFHF soil, you can be damned sure that I would carefully adjust my pH to near 6.3 EVERY time, or I would be certain to have lockouts. Promix might work differently, and that was the medium that your so called scientific article addressed... but nowhere in the documents you have shown does it say that outside of promix... that indeed any buffered soil, would act the same way and that you don't need to pH adjust your fluids.
I find it extremely reckless and unkind to new growers to keep throwing out your advice not to pH adjust, much in the same way you throw out that nonsense about never flushing. It amazes me why you have not been called out on this a lot more than just me doing it... but you can be assured that I am not going to shut up when I see bad advice being given as if it were fact and true in every case. It simply is not. Maybe we should all just throw away the guidelines given by most all of the nutrient companies to pH adjust their products into a certain range and maybe we should just ignore the pH mobility charts, throw away our pH pens and pH up and down fluids. Life would be simpler that way, wouldn't it? Too bad the real world doesn't comply with the blanket assumptions you have made by reading and misconstruing a couple of scientific papers.

 

[Edzzed]

I have been trying to keep my reservoir at 6.3 and will continue to do so. For me pH up and down is cheap insurance. If it ain't broke. Don't fix it.

 

[InTheShed]

I'm curious why you keep bringing up the "flushing" issue, knowing full well that what you call flushing is completely different from my #noflushclub links, something I am clear about whenever I post it. Maybe that's why no one "calls me out" on it. The people who I'm talking to understand the difference, where you don't seem to. Oh wait! You do understand, except when you feel like chewing me out for something I'm not doing:

we do not flush our plants. It is counter productive and does nothing to help the end product except make it smaller and less potent. You can't flush a plant anyway... all you can do is starve it to death.

Buffering in the media is what allows growers not to have to pH their nutrient solution. There is nothing magical about ProMix. It's the reason that lime is added to soil. And I am waiting to read the link that says that the type of chelation changes the need to pH the nutrient solution. Since you have done all the reading, please let us read it too.

I have been trying to keep my reservoir at 6.3 and will continue to do so. For me pH up and down is cheap insurance. If it ain't broke. Don't fix it.

Please keep in mind that this is a discussion about plants grown in solid substrate like soil or ProMix and does not apply to hydro such as DWC, hempy, or coco, as I mentioned in the opening post.

 

[Edzzed]

I'm curious why you keep bringing up the "flushing" issue, knowing full well that what you call flushing is completely different from my #noflushclub links, something I am clear about whenever I post it. Maybe that's why no one "calls me out" on it. The people who I'm talking to understand the difference, where you don't seem to.

Buffering in the media is what allows growers not to have to pH their nutrient solution. There is nothing magical about ProMix. It's the reason that lime is added to soil. And I am waiting to read the link that says that the type of chelation changes the need to pH the nutrient solution. Since you have done all the reading, please let us read it too.


Please keep in mind that this is a discussion about plants grown in solid substrate like soil or ProMix and does not apply to hydro such as DWC, hempy, or coco, as I mentioned in the opening post.

My grows have all been in Fox farms ocean forest. Referring to reservoir is a 5 gallon bucket of water which has airstones and nutes in there.