Delps 8 Hydro RDWC Gelato Autoflower 2021

Added some nutes (didn't change the reported TDS), added water, upped the PPFD, did some LST, and changed the hang height. New PPFD values in attachment.

How much light is the grow getting? You tell me - more data # more information. The canopy is much more even now. Many of the branches have a 2 oz fishing sinkers on them, some have 2 sinkers. The sinkers on S hooks has worked well. I think the plants are almost spread out as much as they can be. Not that I'm at day 44 (above ground), I'm looking forward to seeing growth going vertical.


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Tent cam.

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I put the Z7 in the next day after a reservoir change then three days later . Hydroguard goes in the first day of reservoir change only . My new batch of Z7 part 1 smells like a sewer . I’ve been running it for three years now and have never experienced it that way . When I emailed them they told me to use it but I’m not . The bottle when I shook it got all over me , the bottle wasn’t molded right so the lid is not closing good . Hope you don’t have the same bottle if so tighten the hell out of it before you shake it . Date on mine was August 10,2021
 
West Hippie said:
I put the Z7 in the next day after a reservoir change then three days later . Hydroguard goes in the first day of reservoir change only . My new batch of Z7 part 1 smells like a sewer . I’ve been running it for three years now and have never experienced it that way . When I emailed them they told me to use it but I’m not . The bottle when I shook it got all over me , the bottle wasn’t molded right so the lid is not closing good . Hope you don’t have the same bottle if so tighten the hell out of it before you shake it . Date on mine was August 10,2021
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Ta for the heads up on that. Sounds like you got a bum bottle. :-(

I just checked my bottles - August 31, 2021 on Part 1. Shook them well and no leak. Part 1 has a faint smell of…kelp? Part 2 smells like crayons! I'll add the Z7 tomorrow.
 
I’m not a pessimist — I just know that the light at the end of the tunnel will be a train one day. Wow, dark thoughts and I’ve already had coffee! ;)

Ok, here at Camp Runamuck (who else remembers that show?) things are looking better in the res.

Garage RH is in the low 40’s thanks to the dehumidifier so it’s easier to control RH in the tent. VPD has been 1.0 to 1.1 most of the time. Big water yesterday - 1.7 gallons in 20 hours. I added 1.5 gallons of EC 1.76 nutes two days ago but that didn’t budge the TDS. For the 1.7 gallon drop, I added more nutes and EC rose from 0.75 to 0.82. The res is still cycling between 400 and 420 (how appropriate) and the plants took up 0.6 gallons from the res between 1400 yesterday and 0830 today. That’s a good sign.

pH is still dropping but much more slowly. Bright spark me finally figured out that it would be a good idea to set up a time lapse on the camera that’s trained on the Bluelab. pH was 6.0 at 1900 yesterday, 5.9 at 0230 today, then 5.8 at 0830. That’s 7.5 hours from 6.0 to 5.9 and then 6 hours from 5.9 to 5.8 which is a huge improvement from 90 minutes per unit. Some of the factors that have changed are that the plants are more mature and, second, I increased the EC slightly, and, third, I added a small amount of CalMag. All in all, it looks like things are stabilizing. The res is 0.6 gallons down so I’m going to replenish with the 860 nutes instead of RO.

I switched brands of Up from Atlas Scientific to General Hydro. It looks like I’ll need to add about twice as much of the GH to get the same impact.

I saw some signs of Ca + Mg deficiency so I dropped in 8 ml of CalMag and I didn’t see any further signs of issue. One thing that did pop up its ugly head was mold. Yesterday afternoon I saw a few spots on two leaves and on one leaf tip. I dropped the temperature (I’m running the heater to keep the temp in the 80’s), dropped the RH to 50%, and added a second canopy fan. I will admit that the left canopy fan was off kilter and that’s probably what allowed the issue to occur. I now have two 6” fans blowing over the canopy and two small fans under the fan leaves. Speaking of fan leaves…

Had to do some defoliation yesterday. Mary (the plant on the left that takes up half the res) had a lot of undergrowth but Winnie was impenetrable. That plant is so compact, that it’s hard to see the main stem of the plant. (I’ll post pictures later today.) Something had to go so I removed some of the innermost leaves, the ones that had no chance of receiving direct light. If I followed the “200 PPFD” “rule” (how to refer to that data point is open for discussion) there would have been carnage.

As of this AM, there’s no sign of mold.

The only plant that’s growing skyward is Jeff, the scrawny runt. The grow is now 46 days AGL and I’m finally starting to see signs of flowering. Given the trials and tribulations that these plants have been through, my hopes for a good harvest have been tempered but the grow is in much better shape now than it was just a week ago.

Photos later in the day.
 
Excellent summary!

Although I have to admit, I had a hard time following the ECs and multiple additions of various other ECs. Why not simply add RO water, adjust the pH, and replace the reservoir when the TDS drops by (say) 40 percent?

Here’s why I do it. Even though we are making educated guesses regarding the majority of nutrients being taken up (based on pH behavior), we really have no way of knowing if, for instance, the reservoir is running out of Boron because the plant is mad for it.

Plus, it’s a two-way street - not only is the plant taking in - it’s giving back. The exudates include waste products and organic molecules that can build up to unhealthy levels in the reservoir - possibly leading to bacterial growth - or worse - rot.

I have found it to be a good practice to replace the reservoir more frequently than not - even if using specialty products to try to keep the water clean. Changing when the TDS has dropped by 40% - or weekly - has worked for me.
 
FelipeBlu said:
Excellent summary!

Although I have to admit, I had a hard time following the ECs and multiple additions of various other ECs. Why not simply add RO water, adjust the pH, and replace the reservoir when the TDS drops by (say) 40 percent?
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This reservoir has been stable, in terms of TDS, for no more than a few days. I think it was mid-week that things started to stabilize in terms of pH. Prior to that, the res was, essentially, chaos.
My grow experience is quite limited so I’ve never seen a res drop on its own by anything near 40% - that actually happens?

My SOP has been to swap a res every 7-10 days. My thinking about leaving it that long is that I’ve got 3 small plants in a 28 gallon res so the 7 day “rule” doesn’t apply in the same way that it would were I to have 5 gallon pots.

FelipeBlu said:
Here’s why I do it. Even though we are making educated guesses regarding the majority of nutrients being taken up (based on pH behavior), we really have no way of knowing if, for instance, the reservoir is running out of Boron because the plant is mad for it.

Plus, it’s a two-way street - not only is the plant taking in - it’s giving back. The exudates include waste products and organic molecules that can build up to unhealthy levels in the reservoir - possibly leading to bacterial growth - or worse - rot.

I have found it to be a good practice to replace the reservoir more frequently than not - even if using specialty products to try to keep the water clean. Changing when the TDS has dropped by 40% - or weekly - has worked for me.
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Understood. I’m planning on a mid-week change out. At the moment, they seem to be doing well at about EC 0.8. Doesn’t that sound a bit low but they got nute burn at 1.2 so I’m following the idea that it’s better to underfeed slightly than to overfeed.
 
Delps8 said:
My grow experience is quite limited so I’ve never seen a res drop on its own by anything near 40% - that actually happens?
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Indeed it actually happens! From @West Hippie’s journal:

11/03/21 Day 69/38
Fresh Reservoir
TDS 1012

11/09/21 Day 74/43
TDS 532 ppm was 593 ppm Falling

His reservoir TDS is now 58.6% of initial.
:surf:
 
FelipeBlu said:
Indeed it actually happens! From @West Hippie’s journal:

11/03/21 Day 69/38
Fresh Reservoir
TDS 1012

11/09/21 Day 74/43
TDS 532 ppm was 593 ppm Falling

His reservoir TDS is now 58.6% of initial.
:surf:
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Wow. I think I need to give my plants a pep talk.

My res is now showing 390 as part of its “rotation” but it’s mostly 400 to 410 to 400. I’ll be doing a new res tomorrow. I did add 10 ml CalMag a few days ago because I saw from inter veinal chlorosis. pH is showing a similar pattern but it’s dropping pH much more slowly. It took about 12 hours to go from 6.0 to 5.8 last night.

Should I use the same formula for this next res or is there a change that you’d recommend?

Other than that, the only issue I’ve got to deal with is raising the light. The 6” hang height is great for uniformity but requires daily adjustment. Even at 24¢ per KwH, I’d rather move the light to 20” and not have to futz with it.
 
Delps8 said:
Should I use the same formula for this next res or is there a change that you’d recommend?
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This was the last mix diluted down to below 600 ppm TDS, right?

(per gallon):
5 ml Silica
8 ml Base
10 ml Grow
5 ml Bloom

Since your little miss priss is so sensitive, I guess I would probably stick with the last mix - diluted down.
 
FelipeBlu said:
This was the last mix diluted down to below 600 ppm TDS, right?

(per gallon):
5 ml Silica
8 ml Base
10 ml Grow
5 ml Bloom

Since your little miss priss is so sensitive, I guess I would probably stick with the last mix - diluted down.
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Yes, the the recipe I was using. I upped the EC by just under 0.08 EC a few days ago in response to what appeared to be a Mg issue.
The res is stable at EC 0.8.
 
Day 48 above ground.

Good water consumption. About 1.5 gallons yesterday (water level is measured in mm so converting to gallons is approximate) and just over a gallon today.

Added 1.5 Up at 2200 yesterday to get pH to 5.9. pH was 5.8 at 0600 and 5.7 at 0900. That’s ≈ 0.1unit every 6 hours. I’m seeing some CM issues still so I added 10 ml CalMag.

TDS did drop yesterday, perhaps, but only a tiny amount. TDS continues to vary over a 20 or 30 PPM range. TDS on the Bluelab is stable when the probe is in still water which tells me that the res actually has different concentrations of nutes in the water and that’s causing the Bluelab to flicker as the water is pumped out the water chiller and then returned. Busy, busy down there in the darkness.

I raised the light and upped the wattage yesterday. Current wattage is 191. DLI is 42 on average with a max of 49.

Jeff is the only plant growing vertically at a significant rate. Mary, the plant on the left, and Winnie, in the middle, don’t have stalks growing the way that Jeff does - their growth is more like “raising the roof”. All told, this grow is “behind schedule”. I haven’t compared photos of this grow vs the Gorilla Glue grow that I did this summer. That’s a different strain, for one, but that grow had no LST vs this one which I have done LST and have trimmed out some leaves. And, of course, this grow was on the wrong track right out of the gate so it’s taken some time to get things firing on all cylinders.

Before I started this grow, I set up what I thought would be a good approach to LST - I put velcro on the top of the res and ran ½” tubing through the loops. My thinking was that I could tie the plants down to the tubing.

Not. A. Chance.

The foliage on two of the plants is so dense that it’s very hard to even see under the canopy, much less work in it. Instead, I went to plan B which was to LST using 2 oz fishing weights held on to a branch using an S hook. That works really well, as it turns out. There is/will be an issue with the stems of the plants getting bigger than the S hook opening but I try to move the weights toward the end of the stem as the stem grows. The solution, is to use bigger S hooks. I’ll order them and make the switch.

Plan on swapping the res later today. Same @FelipeBlu magic formula and will go with an EC of 0.84 and, yes, that’s 420 on the 500 PPM scale. :-)
 
New res. Same numbers as the old res.

Attached images show Winnie in one picture with Winnie, Mary, and Jeff in the second. Winnie takes the left side of the res, Mary is at the right front, and Jeff is to the right and behind Mary.

Jeff has had very little LST but I have had to supercrop him. He’s still growing like fury. Mary and Winnie have, between them, a couple of pounds worth of 2 OZ sinkers holding them down. I’m hoping that they haven’t forgotten that they need to grow vertically.

Weird, I’ve taken steps to get an even canopy Winnie and Mary are nice and even. Then there’s that gangly kid in the corner…

What’s the CW on handling something like that? I may be be able to LST by adding weights but super cropping is quick and gets immediate results. I’m leaning toward LST primarily because super cropping requires damaging the stalk fibers.

I need to read up again on DLI. Right now I’m > 40 DLI but I seem to recall that DLI over that level was of minimal value without CO2. I think it was @Rexer who kindly schooled me on that.


Mary.jpg




Mary, Winnie, Jeff.jpg
 
Rexer said:
Sorry Delps, that couldn't be me. My knowledge on DLI is fairly limited in scope.
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Aaargh! Now, I'm going to have to wander the whole internet trying to find that info! ;-)
 
FelipeBlu said:
Looks like a good candidate for SC
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Why SC vs LST?

After, essentially, espousing LST, on the way out to run an errand, I stopped in the tent and checked the stem. That one particular stem already has almost a 90° bend in it from being SC'd previously. It's slender yet and still very pliable.

BTW, the new res came in right at the TDS target and is sitting right at pH 5.8. I'd love to see a drop in TDS but I'll take no drop in pH!
 
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