Delps 8 Hydro RDWC Gelato Autoflower 2021

[Delps8]

Felipe - thank you for breaking that down and providing that guidance. I can do a res change today.

I’ll drop the candy out of the recipe.

And, the $64,000 question - that EC should I use?

And “warmer and drier” - that’s what you folks were saying up in NoCal, right?
I’ve got a good sized dehumidifier and a Whynter 14k AC unit that does dehu, so I can use them to dry the garage and they also will add some heat.

 

[FelipeBlu]

And, the $64,000 question - that EC should I use?

The total calculated PPMs for the suggested mix are 647 - I have no idea what the tds will be. Remember, there are likely a lot of non-nutritive additives present.

And “warmer and drier” - that’s what you folks were saying up in NoCal, right?

We got more rain last weekend than all of last winter!

 

[Delps8]

The total calculated PPMs are 647 - I have no idea what the tds will be. Remember, there are likely a lot of non-nutritive additives present.

Understood. I’ll find out what the TDS is pretty soon.

Is it correct to say that the key issue is that the ratios are in line so I could use a “normal” EC or would it be wiser to start with something in the EC 0.6 range and adjust it from there?

 

[FelipeBlu]

Understood. I’ll find out what the TDS is pretty soon.

Is it correct to say that the key issue is that the ratios are in line so I could use a “normal” EC or would it be wiser to start with something in the EC 0.6 range and adjust it from there?

Unless you are dealing with a particularly sensitive strain (it happens), you should be good at those levels. If you wanted to reduce from (say it’s) EC 1.3 to 0.65 - just double the water (above dose per 2 gallons).

 

[Delps8]

Unless you are dealing with a particularly sensitive strain (it happens), you should be good at those levels. If you wanted to reduce from (say it’s) EC 1.3 to 0.65 - just double the water (above dose per 2 gallons).

Sounds good. I’ll start at EC 1.0 and take it from there.

Again, many thanks for the analysis and advice. I’m going to swap the res now and will update this journal as things play out.

 

[FelipeBlu]

You are very welcome. And thanks to @Rexer for ringing my chime!

When you say that you had damage at 0.8 before, were the upper leaves (newest growth) affected?

Because if it was pretty much confined to lower and middle leaves, it very well could have been deficiency (especially K).

 

[Delps8]

You are very welcome.

When you say that you had damage at 0.8 before, were the upper leaves (newest growth) affected?

Because if it was pretty much confined to lower and middle leaves, it very well could have been deficiency (especially K).

I was the upper leaves.

Same plant, the smallest of the four, taken on 10/18/21 and then 10/20/21. EC was 0.62 and then 0.78.

I just did a 4 gallon batch at 100% and ended up at EC 2.16.

To clarify, “silica” in the recipe is Botanicare SilicaBlast - is that correct?

 

[FelipeBlu]

I was the upper leaves.

Same plant, the smallest of the four, taken on 10/18/21 and then 10/20/21. EC was 0.62 and then 0.78.

I just did a 4 gallon batch at 100% and ended up at EC 2.16.

To clarify, “silica” in the recipe is Botanicare SilicaBlast - is that correct?
That’s what I figured (0.5%K, 2%Si) - usually mixed into water first

I see severe Mg def on middle leaves, but the newest growth appears normal. And no burned tips.

 

[Delps8]

"I see severe Mg def on middle leaves, but the newest growth appears normal.”
And not much of an issue with Ca.
I did an Epsom salts foliar spray twice and it seemed to help but I had no control so no way to be certain. The Epsom salts was just in the last few days.
Does that information change your recommendation/advice?

 

[Delps8]

Current feed sheet.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Does that information change your recommendation/advice?

Not at all. I believe the plants would do better with the dose I suggested. It’s weird that you experienced such severe Mg def at that Veg week 2 dose, but it takes a while to show up so maybe it’s from beginning of veg. The Epsom was a good move, but they really just need all-around good nutrition.

 

[Delps8]

Not at all. I believe the plants would do better with the dose I suggested.

Good to hear.

It’s weird that you experienced such severe Mg def at that Veg week 2 dose, but it takes a while to show up and maybe it’s from beginning of veg.

Only one source that I read about this issue brought that up. The statement was along the lines that it takes 3 - 6 weeks for an Mg deficiency to manifest. That puts me way back to the beginning of the timeline.

Thanks to pointing me in the Ca + Mg direction, I went back and read "the docs” and discovered that I had not upped the amount of CalMag. I was at 2 ml/gallon instead of 3-5. And @cjsbabygirl313 brought up the fact that one of her recent grows as a CM pig so that helped get things back on track. Perhaps the upping of CalMag a week or two ago is coming into play now.

The Epsom was a good move, but they really just need all-around good nutrition.

I hope that’s the issue. I realize that the issue isn’t resolved but my thinking is already moving on to how did this happen and what can I do to prevent it.

One of the most striking things about this issue is how different your mix is from what Botanicare is recommending. Add on to that the fact that their feed sheet shows different recommended values than are on their bottles for 3 out of 8 nutrients, and I really have to wonder about Botanicare’s quality control. It forces me to question the validity of their data re. feeding - they offer week by week values but, based on what I’m seeing here - I have to doubt that they’re valid.

I was pretty much out of options. The PPM for the current res dropped from from 140-150 (145) to a solid 140 which, following the Wonder Chart would have lead me to drop PPM even further (@Rexer can read you in on the Wonder Chart). Thankfully, it appears that I’ve dodged that bullet.

OK, time to swap the res.


Report

 

[FelipeBlu]

You’re a gardener who uses his brain - everything will be alright

 

[Delps8]

Sorry for the delay. I got pulled away from this by that 4 letter word (“work”).

The res swap was done by 5:40 PM and I added Down to bring it from 470/500 and 6.1 to 5.9. After 90 minutes, TDS is ranging from 440 PPM to 470 PPM. Some times it goes from 440 to 470 in the space of 10 seconds and then drops again. Just now it dropped to 430 and then up to 450, again within just a few seconds. Something could be wrong with the Bluelab or the new nute mix has really lit a fire under these plants sorta like a vegan who quits being a vegan and goes to a steak house.

What has been consistent is pH. Fresh nutes were 6.1, I added 2 Down to get to 5.9 and it’s been at 6.0 for almost 90 minutes. That was the interval for the previous res - pH would drop 0.1 units in about 90 minutes. No mas on that, thank you.

Given the time lag between the nute imbalance and when symptoms are first visible, it could take a while for the appearance to get better but I guess it’s one of those “the good things in life are worth waiting for”.

 

[Delps8]

You’re a gardener who uses his brain - everything will be alright

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I broke it, you fixed it!

Great emoji. I can take the hint!

 

[FelipeBlu]

Some times it goes from 440 to 470 in the space of 10 seconds and then drops again. Just now it dropped to 430 and then up to 450, again within just a few seconds.

This looks like drinking and eating and drinking..

Please let me know how much water you need to add tomorrow.

 

[Delps8]

This looks like drinking and eating and drinking..

Please let me know how much water you need to add tomorrow.

I figured that it was either the Bluelab sensor is on the fritz or that's some fascinating behavior.

A while back, @Rexer said words to the effect that, once this gets figured out, those are going to be some hungry plants and that's what it looks like to me. Very hungry plants, ingesting and exuding chemicals at a high rate. I've seen the Bluelab bobble between two adjacent values but to go from 460 to 450 to 440 to 460 in a matter of seconds is really amazing. These guys don't move but they're pretty damned busy.

"drinking and eating and drinking" - I'm envisioning a GoT feast but with chlorophyll.

"Please let me know how much water you need to add tomorrow." - will do.

 

[Delps8]

12 hours later and the res is in much better shape. pH has fallen but it has fallen very slowly. It was 6.0 at 7:30 PM last night, was 5.9 at 7:30 AM today, and has now hit 5.8. That gradual drop is indicative that the res, at EC 0.9, is a little to strong and I’m not surprised at that since the only reference point was that, as seedlings, these plants did well at EC 0.4.

I’ll drop the EC by 0.1 and see if that gets the pH to stabilize/rise.

There is some inter veinal lightening and one of the leaves that had necrosis at the tips looks a little worse but I suspect that since some of the symptoms of a Ca Mg deficiency take time to develop, this situation could get worse before it gets better.

@FelipeBlu - water consumed was 0.75 gallons.

 

[FelipeBlu]

That gradual drop is indicative that the res, at EC 0.9, is a little to strong

Or...the plants are feeding on more cations than anions. Remember - the plant doesn’t have to release equal numbers of cations/anions in an attempt to keep the reservoir pH stable - all she cares about is ionic equilibrium within the roots. For every K+ she takes in - she must release a H+ back into the reservoir. If she takes in more K+ than NO3, for example, the pH is going to go down.

water consumed was 0.75 gallons.

This seems like a good 24-hour volume for plants that size. How does it compare to previous uptake?

 

[FelipeBlu]

There is some inter veinal lightening and one of the leaves that had necrosis at the tips looks a little worse but I suspect that since some of the symptoms of a Ca Mg deficiency take time to develop, this situation could get worse before it gets better.

I think you are still too light on the dose if you diluted down to below 1.0 EC. Interveinal fading and tip/edge necrosis on older fan leaves indicates continuing deficiencies.
Excess will show up as sudden tip burn on newest leaves. If you aren’t seeing any damage to the youngest growth, I think you should increase the dose to at least 1.2 EC.