Darkscotia Apprentices - Passion#1 Perfect Sun COB/8COB Citizen K

weenmeoff said:
Hey RF! I had a hand full of successful Kit harvests but my current 3, I've been following the dark apprentice journal and was a little surprised with the fairly high and often feeds of both GE and TP but my plants have not looked better. I'm not sure exactly where or why Doc suggested the GE but sure he had his reasons, what I can say is you need to get some transplant drench into those girls, that is the main thing your young ladies need to develop good root structure. I also never know about the 1/4 trans in GE but do it in RO between drenches.

When I say the drenches in #1's were high, we're talking about 30ml or 1oz in 2.5 gallons of water then dunked my 3 plants and dumped the excess of about 1 gallon. Now in the 15's, I've been doing 2ml of drench per gallon of soil so yup a full oz per plant, in about 2.5 gallons of water per plant.

Pic from tonight.


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  • Media owner weenmeoff
  • Date added
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LOL, I knew they were gonna blow up and fill that tent. My screen was overfilled, and it was a waste of time growing them that long, plus they would have filled out better with the extra light.

I expected that, but I wanted to see how much so. I should have flipped when the screen was full before they grew up through it. I am still not going to be upset as I have a ton of bud that is extra resin coated, but I could be almost half way to another harvest by now.
 
overlord said:
LOL, I knew they were gonna blow up and fill that tent. My screen was overfilled, and it was a waste of time growing them that long, plus they would have filled out better with the extra light.

I expected that, but I wanted to see how much so. I should have flipped when the screen was full before they grew up through it. I am still not going to be upset as I have a ton of bud that is extra resin coated, but I could be almost half way to another harvest by now.
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Hey OL! I cannot believe the difference in the size of my plants from transplant to flip. I'm thinking it was just about perfect but we'll see. My first grow, I did a ScrOG and way over filled it and my experience was not so good, not a fan of all the tucking and weaving, that got old quick. Your are going to produce lots of great produce!

When I wrote the post up two, I was thinking I was in Rich Farmers journal, ha! :rofl:

:passitleft:
 
And I thought I was in yours.. LOL

I don't mind the tucking & weaving, when done right the results are impressive.

I wanted to see how far I could push it before it had negative results.

Strain dependent, I would not recommend more than 4" above the screen before flip. it all depends on the stretch though, In the case of the Mandarin Cookies I would flip at not more than an inch above.
 
Rich Farmer said:
Only did GE following the good Doctors advice. Only thing was i was underfeeding significantly so he kept saying to do another GE. I wish i would have known that i could have added trans to those waterings. Ill have to crawl through docs site now that its up and running. I think the confusion with so many growers is there isnt really a set way of growing with the kit. Everyone seems to do it there own way which makes it hard for new growers until they find there own way. Not complaining. Love this learning expirence but its almost like a treasure hunt.
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There is actually a "set" way of growing. However, it's not found by listening to every voice that you hear!

I can't seem to find the directions here on the forum since the upgrade, but the ones on the website are definitely accurate:
From my website....
Root Drenches
Alternate drenches throughout the grow cycle. When first learning how to use the products, the recommended feed schedule is: Growth Ionic Drench----water----Transplant Drench-----water------Growth Ionic Drench-----water. Once familiar with how things work, variations on that theme are often just the thing to take your strain/results to the "next level."
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Transplant Drench Should be used when transplanting, during the veg phase and throughout the bloom phase alternating with Growth Ionic Drench. Like all other drenches, it is used at .5 to 1 mil per gallon of soil.

Notably, some growers have found that essential oil and resin production can be increased by using 1/4 oz of Transplant per 5 gallons of water evenly distributed to every plant with each and every watering....whether that's with a drench OR with just plain water. Please note, this does not mean ¼ oz TO EVERY PLANT, but 1/4 oz into 5 gallons of water.



Please take note that some strains often require higher doses than 1 mil per gallon of soil. If the plants seem underfed, don't be afraid to increase or even double Growth Ionic or Transplant drenches, especially if dunking the plants in veg.
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I am mystified as to why you weren't using Transplant, Rich. Hopefully, with the information on this journal and the website and the directions on this forum.....all of which say to alternate drenches.....this can be made clear.

In Jamaica there were 6 "expert" kit growers and all of us were pretty much doing the same thing, which closely matched up the directions and the dosage on the bottle.

I have no idea why some people are not "getting" it but I think it has to do with listening to other people who haven't read the directions, etc.
 
Doc Bud said:
There is actually a "set" way of growing. However, it's not found by listening to every voice that you hear!

I can't seem to find the directions here on the forum since the upgrade, but the ones on the website are definitely accurate:
From my website....




I am mystified as to why you weren't using Transplant, Rich. Hopefully, with the information on this journal and the website and the directions on this forum.....all of which say to alternate drenches.....this can be made clear.

In Jamaica there were 6 "expert" kit growers and all of us were pretty much doing the same thing, which closely matched up the directions and the dosage on the bottle.

I have no idea why some people are not "getting" it but I think it has to do with listening to other people who haven't read the directions, etc.
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Thanks Doc. I understand there is a "set" way of running the kit but the protips like "trans with every water/drench" seem like little treasures you have to hunt for. A lot of people here dont seem to know to add Trans to GE and i dont see dark doing that but maybe i missed it

I was significantly underfeeding my plants, my fault and everytime you came through my journal you said to do GE next. So pretty much every watering you said give them GE because they were starving so i didnt alternate. They are on track now though since realizing i was starving them.

Im following along in darks thread and its very helpful. I had personal problems in my grow, I have it figured out now and they are on the right track. Plants are sprinting now. Thanks Doc! And the reason they were underfeed was because i wasnt drenching like dark. I was top watering at too low of a dose, just want to be clear. I just had no idea to add Trans to my GE

To me it would be more clear written like this. Thats the thing. There are basic directions and then you have tips like adding trans to each drench. Why not just state your feed schedual like this. Clear and conscience

Growth Ionic Drench + Trans 1/4tsp per gal + Tea----water + Trans 1/4 tsp per gal----Transplant Drench + Tea -----water + Trans 1/4tsp per gal------Growth Ionic Drench + Trans 1/4tsp per gal + Tea-----water + Trans 1/4tsp ger gal.


water----Transplant Drench-----water------Growth Ionic Drench-----water.
its confusing to see this schedual then read lower down to add trans to everything. This is just one example. For me, its too many options and would prefer one way of doing it. Either adding in trans or not.

water----Transplant Drench-----water------Growth Ionic Drench-----water.
This schedual is just so vague Doc and leads to confusion at least for me. :Namaste:
 
Rich Farmer said:
Thanks Doc. I understand there is a "set" way of running the kit but the protips like "trans with every water/drench" seem like little treasures you have to hunt for. A lot of people here dont seem to know to add Trans to GE and i dont see dark doing that but maybe i missed it

I was significantly underfeeding my plants, my fault and everytime you came through my journal you said to do GE next. So pretty much every watering you said give them GE because they were starving so i didnt alternate. They are on track now though since realizing i was starving them.

Im following along in darks thread and its very helpful. I had personal problems in my grow, I have it figured out now and they are on the right track. Plants are sprinting now. Thanks Doc! And the reason they were underfeed was because i wasnt drenching like dark. I was top watering at too low of a dose, just want to be clear. I just had no idea to add Trans to my GE

To me it would be more clear written like this. Thats the thing. There are basic directions and then you have tips like adding trans to each drench. Why not just state your feed schedual like this. Clear and conscience

Growth Ionic Drench + Trans 1/4tsp per gal + Tea----water + Trans 1/4 tsp per gal----Transplant Drench + Tea -----water + Trans 1/4tsp per gal------Growth Ionic Drench + Trans 1/4tsp per gal + Tea-----water + Trans 1/4tsp ger gal.


water----Transplant Drench-----water------Growth Ionic Drench-----water.
its confusing to see this schedual then read lower down to add trans to everything. This is just one example. For me, its too many options and would prefer one way of doing it. Either adding in trans or not.

water----Transplant Drench-----water------Growth Ionic Drench-----water.
This schedual is just so vague Doc and leads to confusion at least for me. :Namaste:
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Lot's of people don't add it.....but I was more referring to not using Transplant at all.

I've written, re-written, re-re-written the directions. Also, what you've written above: ""Growth Ionic Drench + Trans 1/4tsp per gal + Tea"" isn't what the directions say. They say:

"""Notably, some growers have found that essential oil and resin production can be increased by using 1/4 oz of Transplant per 5 gallons of water evenly distributed to every plant with each and every watering....whether that's with a drench OR with just plain water. Please note, this does not mean ¼ oz TO EVERY PLANT, but 1/4 oz into 5 gallons of water. """

If you're in doubt, just look at the summary on this journal. We're doing the basics....and we're not adding 1/4 trans.....but we certainly could, without any ill effect.

The main thing is to break free of the "hydro" mindset and realize that these products are alive and as such are forgiving when overdosed. Underfeeding will let the soil energy go flat and all growth will stop.

Now that things are on track, you should get a very nice harvest. Remember to feed on the high side.....just like what I posted a couple posts above, from the directions.
 
Doc Bud said:
Lot's of people don't add it.....but I was more referring to not using Transplant at all.

I've written, re-written, re-re-written the directions. Also, what you've written above: ""Growth Ionic Drench + Trans 1/4tsp per gal + Tea"" isn't what the directions say. They say:

Now that things are on track, you should get a very nice harvest. Remember to feed on the high side.....just like what I posted a couple posts above, from the directions.
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"**That's 1/4 tsp of Transplant added to each drench and watering, per gallon of water being used.**"

@Doc Bud im very confused because this is a quote from your site i took literally yesterday. It literally states 1/4tsp trans per gal of water. I noticed today its not there. I dont use 5gal to water but want to continue adding in trans. What is the proper dose for 1 gal??? I understand some add it, some dont. I think thats where a lot of confusion lies for new growers. So many ways of running the kit.

"Transplant Drench Should be used when transplanting, during the veg phase and throughout the bloom phase alternating with Growth Ionic Drench. Like all other drenches, it is used at .5 to 1 mil per gallon of soil.

Notably, some growers have found that essential oil and resin production can be increased by using 1/4 oz of Transplant per 5 gallons of water evenly distributed to every plant with each and every watering....whether that's with a drench OR with just plain water. Please note, this does not mean ¼ oz TO EVERY PLANT, but 1/4 oz into 5 gallons of water.

**That's 1/4 tsp of Transplant added to each drench and watering, per gallon of water being used.**"

Please Advise
 
ive never added trans when giving a GE drenchs. I’ve always added 1/4 oz tp to every straight water. So I’ve really never given a straight water feed Except to seedlings.
 
Oh and doc the summary is temporary gone due to this websites update. I was blogging it and they have not updated that as of yet
 
This is what it said yesterday on Docs site but its now removed.

**That's 1/4 tsp of Transplant added to each drench and watering, per gallon of water being used.**"

i added 1ml of trans to my 1 gal of GE drench yesterday. I think its something ill continue to do unless doc says no but again 1/4 TSP per Gal is what i saw and i dont use more then a gal at a time.

really would like to know whats what here. I want to contuie using trans in all my waterings.
 
Hey Rich! That 1/4 trans is an option, don't get hung up on it. When dark says 1/4 oz that is for multiple plants. I'd say don't worry about the 1/4 trans, at least until your in bigger pots. How often are you watering at this point. Maybe doc can prescribe a feeding regimen for you seeing as your plants had some issues, maybe post here or on the Q&A thread, all the details of what you've done to date. I feel like your gonna want to get some trans ASAP and maybe a rescue would be good but please ask doc. A handful of growers were having some issues due to lack of or low amounts of trans early on. Some growers like Duggan, don't give any GE at all until they're in the big pots but he has been using the Kit for many years so that is an advanced move, it is reccomended to follow directions for the first few grows and once you have a handle on it, then you can experiment.

You got this! I almost wish you were starting a new batch so we could help you from the start. You next Kit grow is going to be significantly better but you can save this one.

:passitleft:
 
I think i have it figured out for the moat part but im getting really confused when Doc says this

Doc Bud said:
""Growth Ionic Drench + Trans 1/4tsp per gal + Tea"" isn't what the directions say. They say:

"""Notably, some growers have found that essential oil and resin production can be increased by using 1/4 oz of Transplant per 5 gallons of water evenly distributed to every plant with each and every watering....whether that's with a drench OR with just plain water. Please note, this does not mean ¼ oz TO EVERY PLANT, but 1/4 oz into 5 gallons of water. """
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When just yesterday his website said this
"**That's 1/4 tsp of Transplant added to each drench and watering, per gallon of water being used.**"

"Transplant Drench Should be used when transplanting, during the veg phase and throughout the bloom phase alternating with Growth Ionic Drench. Like all other drenches, it is used at .5 to 1 mil per gallon of soil.

Notably, some growers have found that essential oil and resin production can be increased by using 1/4 oz of Transplant per 5 gallons of water evenly distributed to every plant with each and every watering....whether that's with a drench OR with just plain water. Please note, this does not mean ¼ oz TO EVERY PLANT, but 1/4 oz into 5 gallons of water.

**That's 1/4 tsp of Transplant added to each drench and watering, per gallon of water being used.**"

I just want to know what is what because i clearly see that he said 1/4 TSP per Gal but above he says its wrong.

Ill be ading .5 to 1ml of trans to all my waterings per gal unless its a trans drench or Doc clearly says not to. Since my plants are a little behind im sure they could use the added Trans.

I didnt pull 1/4 tsp per gal from thin air though and i want clarification because it was on Docs site yesterday and now all of the sudden its gone so if 1/4 tsp is too much then is .5ml the way to go?
 
We're recommending higher doses now. Instead of drenches at 0.5 to 1.0 ml per soil gallon, we're now recommending 1-2 ml per soil gallon. The 1/4 Trans isn't important anymore.

I want to remind everyone that I didn't experiment with the Kit. In all my journals I went by the dull boring schedule, alternating Trans and Growth until the Cats, and then alternating Growth and water til chop. And I won some awards for my produce. Seriously, if you don't deviate from the schedule, you'll get what I got. If you start tweaking, you might manage to grow plants like Doc and Neiko and Buckshot and Duggan. But they have controlled environments and great genetics, so, mebbe not.

The tweaks aren't even close to being as important as environment and personal attention.
 
I have noticed in reading post's that the amount of inputs has been on a steady increase over the last bit. I can see a updated feeding schedule coming from Doc I bet. That may help a lot.
 
Graytail said:
We're recommending higher doses now. Instead of drenches at 0.5 to 1.0 ml per soil gallon, we're now recommending 1-2 ml per soil gallon. The 1/4 Trans isn't important anymore.

I want to remind everyone that I didn't experiment with the Kit. In all my journals I went by the dull boring schedule, alternating Trans and Growth until the Cats, and then alternating Growth and water til chop. And I won some awards for my produce. Seriously, if you don't deviate from the schedule, you'll get what I got. If you start tweaking, you might manage to grow plants like Doc and Neiko and Buckshot and Duggan. But they have controlled environments and great genetics, so, mebbe not.

The tweaks aren't even close to being as important as environment and personal attention.
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You deserve +Reps but alas... I still dont see how to do so... Anyway, Thank you !
 
More reps for gray!
 
Wow,...had to get all caught up here. Rich , this is something we talked about in Jamaica...i can say , like Gray, i did not experiment , or deviate from Doc's original instructions for many grows with the kit. These are just my thoughts OK....first off , giving Trans with GE is a waste of product. Each has a different purpose for the soil. Second,..Doc does not need to upgrade or change the 'Kit' directions, they were just changed and modified recently, and make perfect sense. Follow them ,...don't listen to 10 other growers , and what they are doing,..OK, you will have much more fun and success. The only things i do differently now, with the liquids from the 'kit' is to give 1/4 Trans, more often, when i give a straight water drink. If you grow in smaller pots than 7's. you will need to pay more attention to them. More water, more Drenches, etc. If possible , try and make your finals , at least 10 gal's...preferably 15's. The more soil , the more smiles.
A typical schedule for me would be (in the 26ers.) Transplant Drench W Tea, straight water, GE Drench W Tea, water W 1/4 Transplant and Tea, Transplant Drench W Tea., repeat.
As mentioned , there is no 'set' way but with that being said, you still have to understand what's happening, what you are doing. Remember we are not feeding our plants , per say, we're feeding the microbial population in our little containers,..it gets tricky sometimes. Cheers to ya Rich, hang in there with this gear,..it really does work , very , very well!:thumb:
Have an awesome night everyone!:circle-of-love:
 
It definitely becomes easier. I’m only on 2nd grow and think I’m starting to understand a lot better. It’s also helps with doc at the helm guiding the way for the most part. My biggest problem was over thinking and in first round of hb grow many thing went wrong but buds still turned out amazing
 
Duggan said:
Wow,...had to get all caught up here. Rich , this is something we talked about in Jamaica...i can say , like Gray, i did not experiment , or deviate from Doc's original instructions for many grows with the kit. These are just my thoughts OK....first off , giving Trans with GE is a waste of product. Each has a different purpose for the soil. Second,..Doc does not need to upgrade or change the 'Kit' directions, they were just changed and modified recently, and make perfect sense. Follow them ,...don't listen to 10 other growers , and what they are doing,..OK, you will have much more fun and success. The only things i do differently now, with the liquids from the 'kit' is to give 1/4 Trans, more often, when i give a straight water drink. If you grow in smaller pots than 7's. you will need to pay more attention to them. More water, more Drenches, etc. If possible , try and make your finals , at least 10 gal's...preferably 15's. The more soil , the more smiles.
A typical schedule for me would be (in the 26ers.) Transplant Drench W Tea, straight water, GE Drench W Tea, water W 1/4 Transplant and Tea, Transplant Drench W Tea., repeat.
As mentioned , there is no 'set' way but with that being said, you still have to understand what's happening, what you are doing. Remember we are not feeding our plants , per say, we're feeding the microbial population in our little containers,..it gets tricky sometimes. Cheers to ya Rich, hang in there with this gear,..it really does work , very , very well!:thumb:
Have an awesome night everyone!:circle-of-love:
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And you still haven't upped the drench dosage, have you? You're still at 1 ml per soil gallon?

Hence the 1/4 Trans.
 
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