Darkscotia Apprentices - Passion#1 Perfect Sun COB/8COB Citizen K

[Gazoo]

Might just be not all plants will need this extra dose and I'd imagine once getting into 2nd and 3rd run soil it may start to get to strong.But I guess if it doesn't hurt the girls then why not.

You guys seem to be missing my point, this is suppose to be for THE NEW growers. Oviously experianced Kit users
will adjust to there needs. BUT I am trying to help the NOVICE First time users. If a stronger initial dose will keep
away a possible early slow down AND there is no down side I just cant see why not use this approach to fend off
a possible early issue, they keep saying it cant hurt so by extension it can only help.

 

[TheGreenYeti]

You guys seem to be missing my point, this is suppose to be for THE NEW growers. Oviously experianced Kit users
will adjust to there needs. BUT I am trying to help the NOVICE First time users. If a stronger initial dose will keep
away a possible early slow down AND there is no down side I just cant see why not use this approach to fend off
a possible early issue, they keep saying it cant hurt so by extension it can only help.

I think part of it has to do with the fact that people do not typically have to feed such high amounts. Using high amounts all the time is really a waste. The kit was designed around just small amounts of all liquids and you will chew through them real quick. If you follow directions the amount of liquids you get in the kit should be sufficient to get you through a run. If you give high doses from the start you are likely to need more liquids than you get with the kit. At least that is my thinking.

 

[Gazoo]

I think part of it has to do with the fact that people do not typically have to feed such high amounts. Using high amounts all the time is really a waste. The kit was designed around just small amounts of all liquids and you will chew through them real quick. If you follow directions the amount of liquids you get in the kit should be sufficient to get you through a run. If you give high doses from the start you are likely to need more liquids than you get with the kit. At least that is my thinking.

OK I give up I must be way left of the path trying to strive
for the BEST, Strongest Start i can begin with

BTW I was not saying always use a strong dose, I was advocating
a strong dose for the FIRST Dunk. Anyway I'll stop now

 

[SweetSue]

I think part of it has to do with the fact that people do not typically have to feed such high amounts. Using high amounts all the time is really a waste. The kit was designed around just small amounts of all liquids and you will chew through them real quick. If you follow directions the amount of liquids you get in the kit should be sufficient to get you through a run. If you give high doses from the start you are likely to need more liquids than you get with the kit. At least that is my thinking.

I don't know if I agree with your thinking Yeti. I found the liquid in the bottles to be more than was absolutely necessary for a full run, but then I've used Graytail's guidelines from the beginning, and they aren't slated to over feeding the soil.

Gazoo, I hear you. This is how my brain feels during this discussion. There won't be a way to get it precise, but there's certainly a range that's more acceptable. I've been growing rather decent plants in the kit soils for about two years now, and for the most part they respond well to between 0.5 -1 ml of drench per gallon of soil, chemovar-dependant. Scrubby's concentrations from a couple years back were more precise at 0.36 per gallon, and his plants made most of ours look like wannabes.

Where I messed up before was not loading enough Trans into the soil before the CAT. This idea of loading more Trans at the beginning sounds workable. Doc?

 

[Doc Bud]

You guys seem to be missing my point, this is suppose to be for THE NEW growers. Oviously experianced Kit users
will adjust to there needs. BUT I am trying to help the NOVICE First time users. If a stronger initial dose will keep
away a possible early slow down AND there is no down side I just cant see why not use this approach to fend off
a possible early issue, they keep saying it cant hurt so by extension it can only help.

Exactly Gazoo.

There's nothing wrong with a Transplant drench to water a seedling, mixed on the light side. Before the Roots! had some other stuff added to it---years ago now---we used to have to make a solution of 1oz Transplant per gallon of water and give each seedling/clone a pint of it for the initial watering.

The new Roots! product does not require Transplant water like that, but you wouldn't hurt anything doing it, especially if you seem to have trouble in that area.

Hopefully, when you see how I do mine and council DS to do his, you can see how the products are used in real life.

 

[SweetSue]

Anyway I'll stop now

Don't you dare.

 

[Doc Bud]

I don't know if I agree with your thinking Yeti. I found the liquid in the bottles to be more than was absolutely necessary for a full run, but then I've used Graytail's guidelines from the beginning, and they aren't slated to over feeding the soil.

Gazoo, I hear you. This is how my brain feels during this discussion. There won't be a way to get it precise, but there's certainly a range that's more acceptable. I've been growing rather decent plants in the kit soils for about two years now, and for the most part they respond well to between 0.5 -1 ml of drench per gallon of soil, chemovar-dependant. Scrubby's concentrations from a couple years back were more precise at 0.36 per gallon, and his plants made most of ours look like wannabes.

Where I messed up before was not loading enough Trans into the soil before the CAT. This idea of loading more Trans at the beginning sounds workable. Doc?

100% Sue. I agree with your assessment and Gazoo's recommendation.

There must be both kinds of nitrogen in the soil prior to the Cat Drench. Organic nitrogen needs microbial action, while nitrate does not.

GE is nitrate....while Transplant and Cat Drench are organic NH3. Urea also breaks down into ammonia....organic nitrogen.

So, if the soil never gets any organic nitrogen during veg, the crew of Nitrogen fixing microbes is understaffed, under trained and out of shape.

Bouncing off of what you said, I think the "mind" of the grower comes into play here. Back a while when some folks were making applets and spreadsheets for drenches and feeding schedules I think a bunch of people who think along those lines became interested in High Brix and started growing/trading ideas and so forth. I never did feature one of those spreadsheets in the directions, neither did I actually "endorse" one past saying, "It looks good to me." I was basing that off the fact that his plants looked really nice, and if he was following his program it was a good idea.

Meanwhile, I approach the whole growing thing differently. Many of us "veteran" or OG High Brixers did all sorts of things early on: Growing a whole crop with just GE. Growing a whole crop with just Cat Drench, feeding WAAAAY past the directions trying to see if it killed plants, etc.

All of us were fixated on the living, 3D, analog, real time retinal images, real time olfactory, auditory and other sensory information associated with the plant's response to this or that. None of the really advanced of us pays too close attention to exact measurements....we kinda know how long the plume of Tea should be when it hits the water. We know how loud the "plop" is for an ounce....and we don't care too much if it's a bit over.

We can sense and understand what to do because we understand the living applications of the products.

Contrast that type of thinking with a highly analytical, scientific mind that sees things in terms of EC, ppm, mils/gallon, and application rates.

The method of learning and teaching the first group of growers is not going to be at all like the method for teaching the analytical/engineering minds.

I have neglected explaining things in clear terms for those folks. Hopefully, we can all get on the same page via this journal, seeing how the stuff is really applied.


So far so good!

 

[TheGreenYeti]

OK I give up I must be way left of the path trying to strive
for the BEST, Strongest Start i can begin with

BTW I was not saying always use a strong dose, I was advocating
a strong dose for the FIRST Dunk. Anyway I'll stop now

Im not sure why you would stop. If your questions are helping you they are probably helping someone else. I simply offered what I thought was logical response for why it may not be suggested. I see a lot of people have really good success doing things a number of different ways. It is all a matter of finding what works for you. This journal is an awesome resource to see exactly what Doc does and his thought process behind it. You may find starting yours off with a heavy dose of transplant gives your plants the boost they need to flourish, where as others may run with minimal inputs from the kit until right before transplant into the final containers or even after.

I don't know if I agree with your thinking Yeti. I found the liquid in the bottles to be more than was absolutely necessary for a full run, but then I've used Graytail's guidelines from the beginning, and they aren't slated to over feeding the soil.

Gazoo, I hear you. This is how my brain feels during this discussion. There won't be a way to get it precise, but there's certainly a range that's more acceptable. I've been growing rather decent plants in the kit soils for about two years now, and for the most part they respond well to between 0.5 -1 ml of drench per gallon of soil, chemovar-dependant. Scrubby's concentrations from a couple years back were more precise at 0.36 per gallon, and his plants made most of ours look like wannabes.

Where I messed up before was not loading enough Trans into the soil before the CAT. This idea of loading more Trans at the beginning sounds workable. Doc?

I have been running the kit for as long as I have been a member. I have found most of my plants do well with about 1ml per gallon as well. I dont typically have fake looking plants throughout all of veg but most of it has to do with neglect or environmental issues. I have come to trust that my plants will finish smokeable at the very least.

I typically had left overs when running single kit bottles (I have used bulk amounts for a while now) but feel that I did not have enough to give heavy feeds all the way through. I realize Gazoo did not suggest this but I figured I would point out the possibility. While you my not agree with my thinking it still seems sound to me. There are a lot of factors that come into play with how far the liquids will get you and veg time, frequency of dunking/drenching and flower time are all huge factors.

 

[Gazoo]

Im not sure why you would stop. If your questions are helping you they are probably helping someone else. I simply offered what I thought was logical response for why it may not be suggested. I see a lot of people have really good success doing things a number of different ways. It is all a matter of finding what works for you. This journal is an awesome resource to see exactly what Doc does and his thought process behind it. You may find starting yours off with a heavy dose of transplant gives your plants the boost they need to flourish, where as others may run with minimal inputs from the kit until right before transplant into the final containers or even after.

.

Sorry Bud Did not mean it to sound so harsh.

Its just I see it so Clearly
and felt like I was spending to much time defending it.

Moving on

EDIT: I have been told more than once that I don't play well with others so I should probably apologize again

 

[Doc Bud]

Sorry Bud Did not mean it to sound so harsh.

Its just I see it so Clearly
and felt like I was spending to much time defending it.

Moving on

Your point was taken! Additions to website instructions being made now!

 

[TheGreenYeti]

Sorry Bud Did not mean it to sound so harsh.

Its just I see it so Clearly
and felt like I was spending to much time defending it.

Moving on

EDIT: I have been told more than once that I don't play well with others so I should probably apologize again

No need to apologize bud. i just wanted to give you my reasoning for my response. i was in no way trying to attack or say you were wrong. Just trying to provide you with an example of why that may not be the case.

 

[SweetSue]

Loving the discourse here guys.

Doc, very understandable explaination. Thank you for that.

 

[Darkscotia]

Remember I'm still a novice high brix grower as well just trying learn to grow the absolute best weed possible and picked up on this journal so we could all start to understand docs ways of understanding his product. I've made many mistakes throughout my first journal and my 2nd started off shitty as well. My first grow and 2nd Journal I started in straight promix for 1 gallon pots then I waited way to long to start drenchs and foliar sprays and then feed too many drenchs with no waters in between. I didn't double tea mixes when dunking either cause I read somewhere not too.
My main problem was I was reading way to many journals and taking notes from all different journals. Some very helpful notes and some which led me to doing certain things wrong. Part my fault cause most journals people didn't even realize I was there just a ghost taking notes lol. I should have stepped up and asked more question. But there plants looked great so why would I think they were wrong, they weren't wrong just what worked for them wasn't working for my situation.

 

[Buckshot317]

My biggest problem is lack of time spent lately, I gave couple a real rescue drench last night, but my girls were happy just had a few issues. But I'm very nit picky too. I want perfect plants every time lol. What gets me is, the ones I don't take pics of are killing it, then I keep 5-6 to to show, and couple of those have been a pain in the ass

 

[FutRfarmer]

it's intimidating to ask questions when you don't know what questions to ask. I've certainly found the right group of guys to ask once I get going that's for sure. my only question for now is should I ditch the 2 600w, MH and HPS and buy a L.E.D?
Thanks guys

 

[Doc Bud]

Update:

The smallest of the three needed its first drench today. Growth Energy. Full Strength. I just dunked it rotation with other vegging plants.

11 bladed leaves on the largest one. I worried its a male, but if not WOW! This Black Cherry Float really likes HB soil.

I'm going to get out the magnifying glass and look for lady bits on the plants daily now. The next time I brix the bloom room, I'll give these a foliar feed. Things are going very well.

 

[TheGreenYeti]

it's intimidating to ask questions when you don't know what questions to ask. I've certainly found the right group of guys to ask once I get going that's for sure. my only question for now is should I ditch the 2 600w, MH and HPS and buy a L.E.D?
Thanks guys

If you already have the 2 600s I would grow with them a couple of cycles. I ran 3 600s for a couple of years, one of which I ran for 4 or so. If you do not have a light LEDs are where it is at but they are costly to buy. If you want to start out cheap 600's are where its at IMO.

 

[Doc Bud]

If you already have the 2 600s I would grow with them a couple of cycles. I ran 3 600s for a couple of years, one of which I ran for 4 or so. If you do not have a light LEDs are where it is at but they are costly to buy. If you want to start out cheap 600's are where its at IMO.

HID Lighting: Gavita 1000 de. Period. It has variable settings.

LED: wow. there are so many. And then there are the DIY kind. Amazing lights, expensive up front. If they last for years and years they'll pay off in about 6 years, from what I can tell.

I always take the manufacturers recommendations and double them....perfect environment with Co2 and so forth.

 

[FutRfarmer]

I do already have the 2 600w I think I'll do a few runs with then and get the room down. L.E.D will be the next investment

 

[FutRfarmer]

Doc I was thinking of getting the platinum LED for a 4X4 room