Critique my Living Soil recipe

Would a mix using ocean forest be considered organic? I’ve seen mixed opinions. And will this mix be to hot?

3 gal. ocean forest
1 gal. Ewc 1.25-0-0
1 gal. Perlite (vigoro)
1/4 cup kelp meal (dr. Earth) 1-0.5-2
1/4 cup bone meal (jobes) 2-14-0
3/4 Dolomite lime (espoma)
3 ground eggshells (organic) Idky I did this
2 Sprinkle of enzymes (raw)
1 Sprinkle Mycorrhizae

Plan on using ewc tea, guinea pig manure and top dressing with kelp mal
 
Some interesting reading on PAN (plant available nitrogen)

Organic fertilizers such as blood meal, and feather meal, which are higher in N, will provide roughly 75% of their N in the first year and up to 50% of their N within a week of application (Gaskell, 2007).

This year, after ten weeks, the PAN from the 80 lbs applied will only be 45% or 36 lbs N (see Table 7). Next year, a year after application, 8% of the total N applied would be available

Also some interesting reading on application of manure and the difference between soil incorporation (tilling it in) within two days or leaving it to rot in the sun for a few weeks (which apparently depletes nitrogen from the manure at an enhanced rate, probably due to aerobic decomposition from atmospheric exposure.
 
009sleepy said:
Would a mix using ocean forest be considered organic? I’ve seen mixed opinions. And will this mix be to hot?
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The website for ocean forest says it contains aged forest products and sandy loam both of which should make it a "soil" type mix but you would have to ask the manufacturer what they consider it to be (soil or soilless). Your mix seems a little lean on the nitrogen to me but you say you will be using teas so that could make up the difference. Everything else looks OK but without knowledge of what fox farm added to the mix it is hard to say (a lab report would shed some light on that matter though). I would have the ocean forest tested right out of the bag (don't add nutrient). That will tell you what is in it and how much more you should add to have good result. Remember according to the pdf in my previous post, after 10 weeks, PAN drops to 45% of initial input.
 
The good the bad and the ugly... waste analysis results are in. First up the blood meal "Actual" analysis

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My 13.25-1-0.6 guesstimate was incorrect for my sample of blood meal. Looking at estimated nutrient available for first year the actual ratio is more like 53.07-1-0.449. Never trust anything you read on the internet :) That means my blood mix is slightly lacking in phosphorous at about 4.2 ppm. Nitrogen is slightly high at about 222 ppm but that should denitrify quite quickly and not be a problem.
 
Feather meal "Actual" analysis

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Feather meal came out on top of this equation. Actual analysis ratio for estimated first year available nutrient is 26.65-1-0.28. That means a mix of feather meal and potassium sulfate should work sufficiently. Setting nitrogen to 200 ppm should result in a phosphorous level around 7.65 ppm, within the 6-10 ppm optimal window. Now I have to get my kelp, and alfalfa meals tested to see if I can get closer to 200 ppm N, 10 ppm P and 250 ppm K... the saga continues.
 
[QUOTE="I would have the ocean forest tested right out of the bag (don't add nutrient). That will tell you what is in it and how much more you should add to have good result. Remember according to the pdf in my previous post, after 10 weeks, PAN drops to 45% of initial input.
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I actually added everything a few weeks ago to give it time to “cook”. The perlite I was adding for sure tho, I’ve read ffof compacts a lot late in flower which has happened to me with ff happy frog. What would u suggest for quick organic nitrogen I hear blood meal is slow release(I just sprouted gonna veg two months
 
@009sleepy here’s the study:


I usually find that people who are preoccupied with PH come from hydro or synthetic nutrients background and if you don’t grow organically it has a certain value, but if you don’t it’s useless.

As far as bloodmeal I’d be extremely careful in dosing this shit. I didn’t like what it did to my outdoor plants and I only added two tbs per plant. Indoor I’d stay away or use it only of other means of providing nitrogen are impossible.
 
009sleepy said:
I actually added everything a few weeks ago to give it time to “cook”. The perlite I was adding for sure tho, I’ve read ffof compacts a lot late in flower which has happened to me with ff happy frog. What would u suggest for quick organic nitrogen I hear blood meal is slow release(I just sprouted gonna veg two months
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Blood meal is actually a quick release nitrogen. If you top dress your plants with it, it will water into the soil quickly (expect to see a reaction within hours). It is about 14% N by weight so it is easy to add too much (if in doubt weigh it out).

For a "soil" based mix, blood is pretty much all nitrogen and should not affect P or K concentrations. Remember that 10 weeks after you apply the nitrogen, it's concentration drops to 45%, so this gives about one harvest from a soil mix before you must re-amend (at least the nitrogen part, due to denitrification by soil reactions).
 
conradino23 said:
As far as bloodmeal I’d be extremely careful in dosing this shit. I didn’t like what it did to my outdoor plants and I only added two tbs per plant. Indoor I’d stay away or use it only of other means of providing nitrogen are impossible.
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Sounds like you did not add enough. Excess and deficiency often have similar plant symptoms. 1 lb N/1000 sqft is a good outdoor application rate. If you also need phosphorous then waste reclamation is a cheap alternative for growing an organic lawn (milorganite 6-4-0 is as easy to spread as chemical fertilizer though they can no longer claim to be organic so I would not apply to vegetable garden).

Could also be your soil lacked or had to much phosphorous when you added the nitrogen. This is where a soil test will save you a lot of aggravation.
 
conradino23 said:
I usually find that people who are preoccupied with PH come from hydro or synthetic nutrients background and if you don’t grow organically it has a certain value, but if you don’t it’s useless.
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I think you are a right and wrong on this one. The pH of the soil is important but it takes secondary value compared to nutrient concentration. If nutrient concentration is off then pH will have little value. If nutrient concentration is within optimal ranges for NPK then pH becomes more important. If you think about it, plants will die at pH 3.0, as you continue to sweeten the soil towards neutral, plant health will continue to improve (to a certain point of diminishing return, beyond which plant health will suffer). That must mean there is an optimal pH which will provide the best possible growth for the plant. Of course, plants will acclimate to their environment and grow in just about anything but optimal growth provides the best quality and quantity of product.
 
Diatomacious said:
Sounds like you did not add enough. Excess and deficiency often have similar plant symptoms. 1 lb N/1000 sqft is a good outdoor application rate. If you also need phosphorous then waste reclamation is a cheap alternative for growing an organic lawn (milorganite 6-4-0 is as easy to spread as chemical fertilizer though they can no longer claim to be organic so I would not apply to vegetable garden).

Could also be your soil lacked or had to much phosphorous when you added the nitrogen. This is where a soil test will save you a lot of aggravation.
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Let me just say I’ve been going low nitrogen route since...
 
conradino23 said:
Let me just say I’ve been going low nitrogen route since...
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Yes, too much will burn the life out of plants, when talking nitrogen. At least it denitrifies quite quickly if you do happen to overdo it. Just waiting 10 weeks will reduce PAN to 45% of initial input.
 
No there was no burn, but it affected the taste and mould resistance... I’d stay away if quality produce is your main goal.
 
Diatomacious said:
Sent some samples of blood meal and feather meal off to the lab for a proper NPK analysis. Guaranteed minimum is good enough for soil mix but not for soilless due to phosphorous limitation of 10 ppm. Hopefully will determine which is the better amendment for soilless from this analysis (I can't even find a "typical" analysis for feather meal so I figured what the hell). I've changed my mix slightly to reflect the new data (may have to change again after lab analysis comes in) so I will know in a week if I did good.
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Thats interesting. So how are you going to convert the NPK in the Blood Meal <YUK> and feather meal <chirp chirp> into your NPK thing.

I think in the LAB they do some sort of burning then test.

Potash is a thing for sure. (Pot-ash).

I was making some the other day and someone called the fire department.

When the fire truck rolled up - I was hand watering my fire with a hand watering can.

Still waiting for the ticket. No open fires, reported. lol

Actually was testing how fast one of my neighbors wood call the cops. Was like 2 minutes till I herd the sirens. They were there in 4 minutes.

I was like "dude you got here fast in the big ass truck."

Fireman "yeah when I drive"

All uphill from there.

I explained Pot-ash to the firemen. shoulda made a vid of it. lol I actually had fun. Was a great day.
 
009sleepy said:
Plan on using ewc tea, guinea pig manure and top dressing with kelp mal
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Do you feed the guinea pig alfalfa pellets??

If so gonna be good. Think of guinea pig as a giant worm. Feed it alfalfa even better if you mix in some kelp meal. Just a thought
 
conradino23 said:
No there was no burn, but it affected the taste and mould resistance... I’d stay away if quality produce is your main goal.
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Yea... if you had mold that would affect the taste. When growing outdoor, you have to keep the buds as dry as possible. Even the morning dew on them can cause mold to form in the bud (buds are so thick that water can't escape fast enough and wherever there is water, there is mold). I grow all my bud indoors at about 50% relative humidity. If you put them out during the day and bring them in at night or during rain they fare much better (lot's of extra work so I just stick with indoor). Sometimes you can successfully put a tarp over them to keep the dew off.

Oh yea... and never ever foliar spray a plant that's in bud because it will mold, I never even spray my plants in veg if I can help it (mites are a different story).
 
bobrown14 said:
Thats interesting. So how are you going to convert the NPK in the Blood Meal <YUK> and feather meal <chirp chirp> into your NPK thing.

I think in the LAB they do some sort of burning then test.
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I could submit a sample of my mixed soil for compost waste analysis, that would tell me what I want to know (I will do this as a final test of the mix). For this mix I guessed at the right nitrogen level from past exp. The other two I simply set in relation to the nitrogen with the ratio I desired. Helps a lot to have an accurate analysis for the amendment you are adding (especially in a soilless mix). The lab I send my samples to uses the combustion test to determine the amount of nitrogen in the sample.
 
Diatomacious said:
Yea... if you had mold that would affect the taste. When growing outdoor, you have to keep the buds as dry as possible. Even the morning dew on them can cause mold to form in the bud (buds are so thick that water can't escape fast enough and wherever there is water, there is mold). I grow all my bud indoors at about 50% relative humidity. If you put them out during the day and bring them in at night or during rain they fare much better (lot's of extra work so I just stick with indoor). Sometimes you can successfully put a tarp over them to keep the dew off.

Oh yea... and never ever foliar spray a plant that's in bud because it will mold, I never even spray my plants in veg if I can help it (mites are a different story).
Click to expand...

That’s not what happened!!!
 
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