ColoradoGriz's First Grow - LED - Soil - Bag Seed

[Robert Celt]

Morning UncleC

Yes I HAVE been lurking LOL Harvest has taken up much of my time the past couple weeks so I pop in, try to catch up while I wake with my coffee and then gone most of the day so nit really contributing much lately LOL but I am all but done, one plant left to trim and hang and then the waiting for drying LOL

I have been following Griz's progress and you guys have been giving him great advice so I haven't thought much on it LOL I have a thought concerning CG's water, but will have to go see if my memory of chemistry is what it used to be LOL I'll post back shortly if I am right LOL

 

[ColoradoGriz]

We must have been cross posting. It's great to hear that you've identified the problem!!

Hahaha I'm glad we did because your RO info helped answer some questions I had. I see systems running from the hundreds to the thousands and was really confused. Personally I was thinking in the direction of something like your blue water tank, float valve, etc. Then I stated thinking I have a grocery store that carries bottled water less than 3 blocks away. The only issue being the dirty hippy buying lots of water. I'm also looking into water delivery.

I've had time to calm down a little bit. It sucks about the FFOF soil but it makes sense. Everyone tells you about how the soil is hot so no nutes are needed for about 4-5 weeks after transplant. So having transplanted my plants to 7 gal pots 6 weeks ago, the soil is no longer hot and relies fully on the schedule for nutes. I'm not happy about it, but now I know. I won't complain about soil, I should have done more research and made my own soil. I just need to figure out if I plan to take everything I have in the Veg tent, out of soil and into coco, or make some better soil to transplant them to before I put the next round in the flower tent.

GB80 gave me some Readygro Aeration formula and some MaxiBloom to get started. I'm sold on the MaxiBloom Lucas Formula but still researching Coco Coir. GB80's recommendation carries a lot of weight but I want to figure a plan of attack on my water situation and adjust my azimuth from there.

 

[ColoradoGriz]

You guys are awesome and glad to have you aboard!

If it helps.

I took 8 gallons of tap reading a PH of 8.4 PPM 64

I let the milk jugs sit for 24 hours

Readings for each milk jug registered PH of 7.7-7.9 PPMs 54-56

I get a lot of scale build up in our household but I don't think 54-64 PPMs qualify as "Hard Water". I'm waiting on a water report as I could still have lots of Calcium in our water.

As far as my runoff being 5.1, I will feel more confident picking up a PH test kit. I should rerun the test to include water temps. Will colder water register a different PH?

 

[Robert Celt]

After a little refreshing of my chemistry and some quick reading on various salts and plant growth, I have a suggestion that might, and I repeat MIGHT help LOL

First off, any water below 60 PPM is considered soft which is a good thing

I have a lot of experience using Muriatic acid (HCl) for numerous projects, from pH adjustment in my pool, as a de-scaling agent to remove calcium deposits and rust stains, to using it for metal prep before welding/painting as well as a herbicide to kill weeds LOL

Muriatic acid is cheap, I pay about $12 CDN per gallon for it, and it goes ALONG way.

WARNING: HCl is a very strong acid and needs to be handled with extreme caution. Wear gloves and safety glasses when mixing, and avoid inhaling fumes. Also, add the acid to the water, never water to acid.

Now, here's what the acid will do for your water. It will lower the pH, you'll have to experiment with how much HCl to add to lower pH to the level you want, I would start with no more than 1/8 of a cup per gallon, let set over night and test. Secondly, and this is where I had to do some research and refresh my memory of chemistry, the calcium carbonate (hardness) will be converted to calcium chloride(CaCl2).

CaCl2 will not precipitate out, which I was looking for a way to do, but it is beneficial to plants. Research has shown that low levels of calcium chloride give crops better drought resistance. Obviously not a concern with for most of us with indoor grows LOL

Now because I am no botanist, this is mostly speculation based on some quick research. If you decide to try this, just do it with one plant to see how things progress. If I was at the point I could experiment with following this approach, I would, but I am still aways off with my next indoor grow. The next round of indoor girls are still sitting in limbo until I get finished with my outdoor harvest LOL

As a side note, dilute Muriatic acid is a great cleaner of sinks, toilet bowls and fixtures to remove lime scale and rust stains

 

[Shaggn]

Something still isn't adding up that I meant to say yesterday. Why is this only effecting one plant?? All the others look great! If they all have the same medium and all get the same water then the damaged one had to have had an (oops) somewhere lol. Peace!!

 

[ColoradoGriz]

After a little refreshing of my chemistry and some quick reading on various salts and plant growth, I have a suggestion that might, and I repeat MIGHT help LOL

First off, any water below 60 PPM is considered soft which is a good thing

I have a lot of experience using Muriatic acid (HCl) for numerous projects, from pH adjustment in my pool, as a de-scaling agent to remove calcium deposits and rust stains, to using it for metal prep before welding/painting as well as a herbicide to kill weeds LOL

Muriatic acid is cheap, I pay about $12 CDN per gallon for it, and it goes ALONG way.

WARNING: HCl is a very strong acid and needs to be handled with extreme caution. Wear gloves and safety glasses when mixing, and avoid inhaling fumes. Also, add the acid to the water, never water to acid.

Now, here's what the acid will do for your water. It will lower the pH, you'll have to experiment with how much HCl to add to lower pH to the level you want, I would start with no more than 1/8 of a cup per gallon, let set over night and test. Secondly, and this is where I had to do some research and refresh my memory of chemistry, the calcium carbonate (hardness) will be converted to calcium chloride(CaCl2).

CaCl2 will not precipitate out, which I was looking for a way to do, but it is beneficial to plants. Research has shown that low levels of calcium chloride give crops better drought resistance. Obviously not a concern with for most of us with indoor grows LOL

Now because I am no botanist, this is mostly speculation based on some quick research. If you decide to try this, just do it with one plant to see how things progress. If I was at the point I could experiment with following this approach, I would, but I am still aways off with my next indoor grow. The next round of indoor girls are still sitting in limbo until I get finished with my outdoor harvest LOL

As a side note, dilute Muriatic acid is a great cleaner of sinks, toilet bowls and fixtures to remove lime scale and rust stains

Great info! I will definitely look into that for future grows as an alternative to PH Down, it sounds effective and beneficial.

Something still isn't adding up that I meant to say yesterday. Why is this only effecting one plant?? All the others look great! If they all have the same medium and all get the same water then the damaged one had to have had an (oops) somewhere lol. Peace!!

Three plants, two are Fruit Stomper and the other Bubblegum. Effected plants are the Bubblegum (worst), Fruit Stomper Betty (mild) and Fruit Stomper Lucy (showing signs of brown tips and brown leaf edges). Bubble gum fell out off a table and onto the floor at week 3 in Veg, she preflowered at week 4 of veg so I'm thinking she has been stressed since. Betty has always been a slow grower compared to the other fruit stomper and I attribute her problems to bad genetics. Lucy on the other hand has been a champ and her symptoms are probably more heat stress as I let the lamps get a little close. All three are in FFOF soil, transplanted to 7 Gal pots 6 weeks ago. Fed on Fox Farms soil schedule with these nutes:

Feeding Schedules - Language Sorted - FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company

If you look at the schedule it implies that plants are potted into soil and after 4 weeks get a flush, because the soil no longer buffers so the sledgehammer and boomerang are a recharge and the nutes applied over the next four weeks accumulate till the next flush/recharge and so on. It's all good unless you transplant to fresh soil half way through the 4 week recharge because you will burn your plants up with the hot soil.

Honestly I think I've been jumping the gun a lot. Looking back the bubblegum has had issues for some time (2 months) and I should have treated the plant and not the harvest. That plant's issues might not be the same as the other's due to strain, genetics, etc. I shouldn't get hung up on PH because if I follow the schedule I guess it all balances out in that the combination of the nutrients put my PH in the right range regardless of my starting PH and the soil buffers the rest. So why am I having PH issues? Probably from adding CaMg+ to my nute soup throwing the equation off because it does effect PH. Better if I add my CaMg+ to my water on it's own watering day. Another factor is I probably have a plant that should have died weeks ago but I've actually been saving it as opposed to killing it.

All speculation.

 

[UncleCannabis]

It's good to see that you're looking at all aspects of your grow. This is a very good strategy to take but if it were me I wouldn't discount the water quality concerns just yet.
If you are having issues with calcium build up in toilets and whatnot this is a sure sign of hard water. In addition, most tap water that has a high ph such as yours is normally accompanied by high EC levels.
The PPM's that you mention shouldn't cause much problems such as lime scale rings in toilets but you say that this has been a problem for you.
Something doesn't add up man. I suggest that you still get a copy of a water analysis report if it's not too much trouble. The water analysis report will tell you alot.

 

[94xjjohn]

Hey Griz,

Check out the BlueLab meters. I took the plunge last indoor grow and bought one, found my PH way off, and doubled my harvest weight by PHing every watering without fail. The probes stay in the res. 24-7 and tell me PH, temp, and PPM nutes.

Someone asked if temperature has an effect on PH readings........YES IT DOES. My BlueLab meter automatically adjusts for temp.

 

[ColoradoGriz]

Hey Griz,

Check out the BlueLab meters. I took the plunge last indoor grow and bought one, found my PH way off, and doubled my harvest weight by PHing every watering without fail. The probes stay in the res. 24-7 and tell me PH, temp, and PPM nutes.

Someone asked if temperature has an effect on PH readings........YES IT DOES. My BlueLab meter automatically adjusts for temp.

First...

SO GLAD TO SEE YOU MAN!!!!

Don't think I don't start wondering when you go missing for periods at a time. Nothing weird, just wonder if you are passed out in your crop or chasing tail.

When I first started back in July, I went to the Hydro store and asked for a PH Pen. I had a couple grand set aside for the grow so I didn't flinch when they sold me a Bluelab kit for $130 (Both Pens). I took it home and my rookie ass was like, "I can't even stick this in dirt to test the soil PH. They sold me a damn hydro PH pen." I returned it and bought the $20 yellow stick from Amazon. Ya, I'm embarrassed to tell that story now. Every pen I research seems to be crap. That one, everyone I talk to loves it, I see it in countless grow videos, and I've read few bad reviews in which most just complain about cost. I think the biggest factor for me is, anything I spend more than $50 on, I take good care of. I think most problems with the cheap pens is I treat them as disposable. As far as temps, even though the yellow ones have sensors to adjust temp, I think it sucks and the problem with most pens.

The EPA regulates Tap water to be 6.4 to 8.5. I notice that water that comes off the main, cooler @ 68 degrees comes out at 8.4 PH. If I let it sit in a milk jug for 24 hours, coming to room temp it drops to @ 7.8. If that is due to temps, releasing the chlorine over time etc., should I treat my water as 7.8? Although I will probably buy a Bluelab, I think the guys are right that I should get a water test done.

Honestly, I'm voting on user error somewhere. I probably overdid it on the nutes, maybe too much stress from all the topping. Maybe they went too long without water when I was away and suffered root damage. My mom watered them a few days late.

 

[94xjjohn]

Griz.....

A few days late?.....outch!

Forget the pens, none work well, even the BlueLab pens. Get a 'real' test meter from BlueLab (batteries or plug in) with probes you can leave in your sump 24-7. Most of the failures of pens is that they can NEVER dry out. Neither can the probes of a 'real' meter dry out, but submerged 24-7, they never will become dry.

Remember: A dry pen OR probe is a dead pen or probe, and MUST be replaced.

Also: Water PH changes continually depending on nutes, temps, aeration, and a lot more....adjust it before each watering without fail. This has been one of my biggest lessons of the last 45 years of growing. And I just learned it this last year!!! Hope this helps.

 

[KCMP]

Definitely enjoying your grow! Glad to see another Colorado grower out there. I am about to do some pruning and may have a few clones available if you are near Denver and interested in the genetics. Always hate to throw out potential clones.

Subbed!

 

[ColoradoGriz]

Griz.....

A few days late?.....outch!

Forget the pens, none work well, even the BlueLab pens. Get a 'real' test meter from BlueLab (batteries or plug in) with probes you can leave in your sump 24-7. Most of the failures of pens is that they can NEVER dry out. Neither can the probes of a 'real' meter dry out, but submerged 24-7, they never will become dry.

Remember: A dry pen OR probe is a dead pen or probe, and MUST be replaced.

Also: Water PH changes continually depending on nutes, temps, aeration, and a lot more....adjust it before each watering without fail. This has been one of my biggest lessons of the last 45 years of growing. And I just learned it this last year!!! Hope this helps.

Yes, she fessed up to two, said they were really wilted but perked right back up after she watered. I bet they did hahaha. So needless to say, it could be the roots. Possibly even root bound. Before I put them in flower, they vegged for almost 8 weeks, you could see big roots at the base of the stems but I didn't want to transplant again. Yes, I think PH is part of the problem......
Then hahaha here's a stupid question. On the Soil Feed Schedule for Fox Farms

Feeding Schedules - Language Sorted - FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company

It says feed twice a week. I'm really high right now to do the math, but by feed do they mean nutrients twice a week or water once nutrients once? Has my dumbass been underfeeding my plants? Or am I supposed to be spreading those nutes out across two feedings?

I typically water on Wednesday with just water. The 7 Gallon pots I give about 2.5 - 3 gallons a piece giving me @ 20% runoff. Usually come Saturday the pots are light and the fans start to droop, I give them 2.5-3 gallons of the above nute schedule. The entire line. I did a longer veg (repeated week 4) so I'm going into week 8 on that schedule. I'm probably underfeeding, the hot soil carried my dumbass until I flushed it all out and now they are hungry lol. When I'm not so exhausted, and high, I will look back on this and be ashamed. Then I will do the math.....Big Bloom 0.01 - 0.3 - 0.7 ; Grow Big 6 - 4 - 4 ; Tiger Bloom 2 - 8 - 4 ; Kelp Me Kelp You 0.5 - 0 - 0.5 ; Bembe 0 - 1 - 3 ; Beastie Bloomz 0 - 50 - 30........(crash)

 

[ColoradoGriz]

Definitely enjoying your grow! Glad to see another Colorado grower out there. I am about to do some pruning and may have a few clones available if you are near Denver and interested in the genetics. Always hate to throw out potential clones.

Subbed!

Hey!! Welcome to my mess!! I'm learning.

Always great to meet fellow Colorado growers! I'm down in the Springs, a few of us growers down here have been talking about forming a CO-OP sort of thing down here, we throw clones and weed at each other, extra equipment etc. I've been the loser being the noob, I haven't built up a collection yet..... Oh wait, I have a UFO! It's a start. I'll keep your offer in mind! Right now I'm going to grow out what I have minus the mother's and clear everything for my transition to coco and a drain to waste system.

 

[KCMP]

Let me know if you need any help setting up the dtw coco system. I ran that my last round and had a few problems so you wont have to repeat my mistakes. The biggest issue was salt build up from lack of proper flow. The coco definitely needs to be watered to at least 20% runoff in order to keep it clean. I switched to a ebb and flow system for my current grow and its working out great.

Definitely let me know if that CO-OP gets going!

 

[ColoradoGriz]

Let me know if you need any help setting up the dtw coco system. I ran that my last round and had a few problems so you wont have to repeat my mistakes. The biggest issue was salt build up from lack of proper flow. The coco definitely needs to be watered to at least 20% runoff in order to keep it clean. I switched to a ebb and flow system for my current grow and its working out great.

Definitely let me know if that CO-OP gets going!

I will keep you in the loop for sure and information is always welcome so I'm sure I'll be sending some PMs your way soon. I see some journals in your sig block now so I'm going to check those out! Definitely want to check out your ebb and flow system. More or less just trying to find a self watering system, more plants but smaller plants. I still think they need to fix the plant count issue. I mean 6 plants outdoor is way more than 6 indoor. If I brewed my own 6 pack of beer that's 72oz, I'm allowed to brew 200 gallons a year for my home, I want my 200 milk jugs full of weed. People say be happy that it's legal, I say it never should have been illegal. I would be happier with an annual production cap than a plant count. When it comes to doing something in your own home that does not mentally or physically harm anyone, it should be none of the governments business.

Sorry, haven't had my coffee yet.

I forgot to post this last night.

I have to remind myself to look past the ugly leaves, those won't change back, and look at the new growth. There is a lot of it, and all green.

 

[uhewekguilw]

Pretty flowers!

 

[94xjjohn]

Griz...It means feed the nutes twice a week. I do it a little differently. Here's how I use them:

I mix at 1/2 strength (something under 1000 ppm) and feed 25% of that water every watering as the only water (with about 20% runoff), adding back the 25% to the original water with just plain water. After a few waterings, when my BlueLab meter tells me the nutes are diluted to about 200 ppm, I mix a new batch and repeat. I PH the water just before watering (easy with the BlueLab probes always in the sump....just push the button!) and adjust it to 6.0 each and every time I water (yes, it changes from day to day because the nutes are changing concentration each day, I guess!, plus the new water). This works best for me, but other ways will work just as well. Your one time a week is probably just fine. It sure is nothing to lose sleep over.
That bud looks so nice, it's hard to believe you are doing ANYTHING wrong. Hope this isn't confusing.

 

[ColoradoGriz]

Griz...It means feed the nutes twice a week. I do it a little differently. Here's how I use them:

I mix at 1/2 strength (something under 1000 ppm) and feed 25% of that water every watering as the only water (with about 20% runoff), adding back the 25% to the original water with just plain water. After a few waterings, when my BlueLab meter tells me the nutes are diluted to about 200 ppm, I mix a new batch and repeat. I PH the water just before watering (easy with the BlueLab probes always in the sump....just push the button!) and adjust it to 6.0 each and every time I water (yes, it changes from day to day because the nutes are changing concentration each day, I guess!, plus the new water). This works best for me, but other ways will work just as well. Your one time a week is probably just fine. It sure is nothing to lose sleep over.
That bud looks so nice, it's hard to believe you are doing ANYTHING wrong. Hope this isn't confusing.

Not confusing at all! As long as I'm not underfeeding them I'm okay. That picture was off the worst shape plant in the tent so I'm trying not to stress out too much. First grow, I'm being all paranoid and crap. Today was pay day so I set aside some money I owe a friend and then bought myself a Bluelab Guardian on Amazon. Not sure if that was the one you were referring too but reading reviews from 20 different sources and watching 6 different videos, not to mention your recommendation, I didn't feel bad parting with that money. I'm sure it will earn it's keep when I set up the DTW system and give me some confidence while I finish these ladies that are in soil.

 

[94xjjohn]

Congrats Griz!

You got the one above mine (combo)! I promise it'll make life easier.

 

[ColoradoGriz]

I'm going off the grid for awhile.