Billysmokealot
420 Member
ill post some pics of it potted up, but its fine. It did lose a top though. so side branching coming in. garden greenhouses spells the old favorite mites and bugs.
Clones from Kind above the cut?
- Thread starter Doigtsverts
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i'm sure they're clean. it's not hard to keep a clean mother and clone room.
Kind Above The Cut
Active Member
Hey everyone. Glad to see our friend @Billysmokealot sharing his experience. Soon there will be more, including the instigator of this thread @Doigtsverts. Slowly but surely, we fully intend to build the trust.
@bluter where abouts is this local greenhouse selling these $5 clones? Please share this with the 420 community members so that anyone living close can tap into this amazing deal! Although @Billysmokealot may have a point about them coming with some unwanted pests that can be difficult to get rid of once they get introduced into your garden. And they most certainly wouldn’t be breeders’ cuts for that price! We know the quality of what we produce and are proud to share it with Canadian growers who are looking for the best in market breeder cuts available online. The online thing is important because it’s about getting vibrant, healthy cuttings year-round shipped to their front door.
Regarding the price point… it’s important to understand the model is very different than with seeds. Seeds are tiny, extremely lightweight and they’re not very sensitive to temperature variations. All this spells cheap shipping costs. When we ship our clones out by UPS, it’s a big, bulky package that we get to our customers with next-day or two-day shipping depending on where they are in Canada. This is expensive. Case in point, shipping to @Billysmokealot cost $106.92 and we provided him with the proof of shipping cost with the UPS receipt. These shipping costs are included in our prices, as well as all taxes. This is not the case with our competitors. Our offer is simple: best quality available online in Canada at a fair, competitive price. We are honest players.
We used to be nuts about starting new strains from seeds and actually still own an impressive bank of amazing genetics. Thousands of dollars worth actually. But over the years, we got tired of getting one or two perfect specimens out of every batch of 10 feminized seeds we started. Too many variations in phenotypes can be a real challenge to deal and in mean… given the option, who wouldn’t prefer to see every plant come out perfect like that one really special one of the lot? Right? Not to mention the nightmare of getting hermies once in a while! Haven’t we all experienced a batch of perfect Sinsemilla seed up because of two or three tiny little male flowers. These little male flowers can be hard to spot, especially if they show up on a plant that’s way in the back of your grow room where it’s harder to spot them. With breeder cuts, every plant you grow is the one. The specimen with the perfect bud structure and density, best yield, terpene profiles, taste, smell, potency, resin and crystal production etc. Honestly, once you’ve experienced breeder’s cuts, there ain’t no goin’ back! At least that has been our experience and that of a growing number of cannabis connaisseurs. Our customers typically find us first and foremost by researching the strains - the prized genetics. There is a market for Breeder cuts of these specific strains available through online ordering in Canada and our quality speaks for itself.
Now to our detractors we feel like saying: chill out man! You must not be smoking the same buds we are! Rather than naysaying at every occasion, why don’t you sample the goods! We’re serious! Let’s get you some free babies on the house so that you can start spreading the good word about us instead of busting our balls! Just joking! But no kidding, if you’re interested let us know. If it can help build the trust with the community on this forum, then what the heck! We’ll bite the bullet and absorb the $100 shipping to make you guys our champions! What do you say?
@bluter where abouts is this local greenhouse selling these $5 clones? Please share this with the 420 community members so that anyone living close can tap into this amazing deal! Although @Billysmokealot may have a point about them coming with some unwanted pests that can be difficult to get rid of once they get introduced into your garden. And they most certainly wouldn’t be breeders’ cuts for that price! We know the quality of what we produce and are proud to share it with Canadian growers who are looking for the best in market breeder cuts available online. The online thing is important because it’s about getting vibrant, healthy cuttings year-round shipped to their front door.
Regarding the price point… it’s important to understand the model is very different than with seeds. Seeds are tiny, extremely lightweight and they’re not very sensitive to temperature variations. All this spells cheap shipping costs. When we ship our clones out by UPS, it’s a big, bulky package that we get to our customers with next-day or two-day shipping depending on where they are in Canada. This is expensive. Case in point, shipping to @Billysmokealot cost $106.92 and we provided him with the proof of shipping cost with the UPS receipt. These shipping costs are included in our prices, as well as all taxes. This is not the case with our competitors. Our offer is simple: best quality available online in Canada at a fair, competitive price. We are honest players.
We used to be nuts about starting new strains from seeds and actually still own an impressive bank of amazing genetics. Thousands of dollars worth actually. But over the years, we got tired of getting one or two perfect specimens out of every batch of 10 feminized seeds we started. Too many variations in phenotypes can be a real challenge to deal and in mean… given the option, who wouldn’t prefer to see every plant come out perfect like that one really special one of the lot? Right? Not to mention the nightmare of getting hermies once in a while! Haven’t we all experienced a batch of perfect Sinsemilla seed up because of two or three tiny little male flowers. These little male flowers can be hard to spot, especially if they show up on a plant that’s way in the back of your grow room where it’s harder to spot them. With breeder cuts, every plant you grow is the one. The specimen with the perfect bud structure and density, best yield, terpene profiles, taste, smell, potency, resin and crystal production etc. Honestly, once you’ve experienced breeder’s cuts, there ain’t no goin’ back! At least that has been our experience and that of a growing number of cannabis connaisseurs. Our customers typically find us first and foremost by researching the strains - the prized genetics. There is a market for Breeder cuts of these specific strains available through online ordering in Canada and our quality speaks for itself.
Now to our detractors we feel like saying: chill out man! You must not be smoking the same buds we are! Rather than naysaying at every occasion, why don’t you sample the goods! We’re serious! Let’s get you some free babies on the house so that you can start spreading the good word about us instead of busting our balls! Just joking! But no kidding, if you’re interested let us know. If it can help build the trust with the community on this forum, then what the heck! We’ll bite the bullet and absorb the $100 shipping to make you guys our champions! What do you say?
- Thread starter
- #44
Doigtsverts
420 Member
I fell a bit behind here, apologies for that. I did order and did receive. Will try to post asap - life is getting in the way.
There was a LED light in the small package?
Sativa1970
Well-Known Member
@Billysmokealot was who posted the pics in a new thread. Not going crazy, just a bit confused.
Have either of you grown the the clone strains you ordered, from seed, in the recent past? Just curious if there is some kind of comparison you can make. I order land strain seeds to grow them next to my land strain seeds from the 60s-70s. Some are a bold faced lie. Most are a reasonably close resemblance but the side by side makes the differences obvious.
Some people may see more value in a clone than a seed even though clones are cheaper and easier to produce. For most, the total quality of the product has to warrant the price regardless of the businesses overhead. One of those clones would have to be 5 times better than growing any random reputable seed bank seed. For some, an $800 bottle of Christal is worth the price over buying the $250 15 year aged Dom Perignon. Even though it is definitely not more than 3 times better tasting. They are valuing status, image and placebo with Christal.
4our8ighty0
Well-Known Member
I really like the business model, if true to practice it shouldn't be very hard to blow this up. Alot of people would love the speed and ease of getting a clone over a seed, especially recreational growers or private stash growers. No dispensaries or major industries would go for clones over seed so your client base would be,diy grows. The 3 major hurdles I see are of course the price per clone 40$ a pop is a lot IF you CANNOT streamline and harden your shipping process. The second thing is the survival rate of clones while shipping, if you can get your clone shipping survival rate in the 90% range,plus put a 2 or 3 day max on any shipment delivery that will fix pricing sweat. The last issue I see is the locations of the warehouse. Idk if you ship all over but having a few warehouses to ease order burden and increase survival rates. I really think y'all could blow up if you focus on those things. I myself only prefer seeds cuz getting a healthy,unmolested clone of good genetics nowadays is not even a option.....so there is also a huge stigma against cloning due to the practical issues and bad practice of many others who attempted something similar. I'm rooting for you guys at kind above the cut...pun intended.....I really think you can fill a demand that has not ever been able to be in demand.....great site also.
Kind Above The Cut
Active Member
No worries @Doigtsverts ! We know you’re going to give us your honest feedback when you can and we’ll be looking forward to seeing it! Happy Growing! KATC
Kind Above The Cut
Active Member
Thanks @4our8ighty0 ! We appreciate your positive feedback! It’s not always easy to be a startup… On the other hand, it’s certainly appreciated when other growers give us encouraging good vibes and advice on how to improve the business model. We are working on making our packaging less bulky and heavy to save on shipping costs. The problem is that we are perfectionists! We put so much care, effort and attention into making sure our babies arrive 100% impeccable, that we haven’t really put much time or R&D into lowering our shipping costs. So far our clones have a 100% survival rate and have always arrived the next day or within two days at the latest, regardless of where in Canada our customers live. Our clones are clean, healthy and robust with a ton of big fat white roots. And our genetics are world-class. Breeder cuts are the result of careful phenotype selection on the part of the artists and genius creators of these incredible strains. They typically pick the best lady, the « chosen one » , from a group of at least 50 females. Many breeders even select from a group of over 100 females, all started from traditional, non-feminized seeds so as to have the purest genetic expression of the chosen cultivar. Can you imagine? That means they started a couple hundred beans to get that many females. Picking from that kind of massively large pool of ladies to find the perfect one! The result of this process is impressive… Perfect symmetrical plant structure and bud stacking, optimal yield, terpene profile and potency - basically the perfect expression of any given super strain! Honestly worth the investment.
Anyway thanks again for your kind words…pun intended…It’s really encouraging for the Kind Above The Cut Team!
Kind Above The Cut
Active Member
Thanks for your question @SmokingWings Yes! Our clone shipping containers include a small LED light inside. It helps keep them firmly in veg growth mode. You don’t want an extended period of darkness at this early stage of the plant’s development because it causes an accumulation of a plant phytohormone called florigen. Although it would be very unlikely to happen in the day or two it takes for our clones to arrive at our customers’ homes, if too much florigen accumulates in the absence of light, it can trigger flowering. So we don’t take any chances because even a partial trigger from florigen build up can dramatically slow down the clones’ growth as they become « confused » when you try to put them back into veg under 18 hours of light. We have found that it’s better to keep them under continuous light during the shipping process so that they are rearing to go and ready to burst into new soil when they get to their destination. This kickstarts their development and accelerates their growth to give our customers a head-start on their next grow! We also include a 40-hour heat-pack inside our insulated parcels during the colder months in Canada. Makes the packages a little heavy but we spare no expense when it comes to getting healthy babies to our customers!
4our8ighty0
Well-Known Member
Yea I was looking thru and that package is def impressive,a light and the ice is something I never thought of an clones had thick whites hanging low lol but yea so I'm impressed and if u can do all that at 40$ that's much more reasonable especially like you said since y'all already did the base sift thru already!! I could start my grows and save weeks to get started,and even potentially months to sort the best ones. I am interested and believe the market for clean,healthy,consistent clones is just waiting to find a source for them. Think of the possibilities with access to ready to go genetics?????. I do have a question out of curiosity do y'all have a specific environment you acclimate your clones to that makes the transition to different timezones and climate rating zones easier on the clones themselves?? I don't think this a issue at all just curious?
Kind Above The Cut
Active Member
Just like us, @Sativa1970 obviously has an appreciation for ALL the finer things in life! Not just for the Sacred Herb! Like we can say that a Sauvignon Blanc from the Marlboro region of New Zealand is worth every penny of its high price. Far superior to the same Sauvignon Blanc produced in California. And it’s so true what you’re saying about the authenticity of seeds. We’ve been blessed with family in the Netherlands who, back in the day, were able to get us seeds directly from Sensi Seeds or Barney’s Farm (our two favs) and mail them over in their original sealed packages. But we’ve also ordered plenty from other sources where the seeds arrived in small vials with hand-written labels. So who could say if they were the real deal? Basically had to go through the entire growth cycle from seed to harvest to find out. And even then, you wouldn’t always be sure in the end if what you got was really what was advertised. This is back in the day when Mark Emery was the king and the two dominant super strains were Northern Lights by Sensi Seeds for Indica and Barney’s Haze for Sativa. Now that cannabis is legal in Canada, at least you can go to your local shop and get great seeds in authenticated sealed packages. But even if you get a pack of 10 of those, you know as well as I do that you’re gonna get some nice specimens and others that aren’t nearly as perfect. Some stretch. Some give you fluffier buds. Some don’t yield as much, don’t taste as good or just don’t have the same overall quality as the one or two perfect ones in the lot. And if you want to start a mother plant, it’s somewhat tedious because you don’t really know which specimen will be your best until you’ve cropped, dried, cured and smoked the end product. So that means cloning every female and keeping plants of each phenotype to save the ones of the best plant and destroy all the others once you’ve decided which one is the keeper. But you can only clone your ladies when they are in their veg cycle so many weeks before you will be cropping and eventually sampling the final product. It’s a lengthy process and sometimes difficult to achieve for growers with limited space. What sets Breeder Cuts apart is the fact that it’s the genius creators of the super strains, the artist breeders themselves who select from over 100 felmales to meticulously pick the chosen one. Once you’ve grown Breeders Cuts, there’s just no going back! And just like ALL the finer things in this world, you have to be prepared to pay the money if you want the best. But many growers do want the best! I mean, who doesn’t want a grow room full of plants that look exactly like the one the breeder chose to advertise his strain!? Cause you’d better believe all those bud porn shots are Breeder Cuts!
One note about bud shots and what strains look like… what we’ve found is that the same genetics can give you fairly different looking buds in the end. Consistently is much greater with Breeder Cuts but even these can produce variations in, for instance, how purple or light green your dried herb is in its final form. Was it grown indoors under artificial light or sunshine grown in the great outdoors? Was in grown in a hydroponic system or in living soil? Did you grow them under HPS, LED or CMH lights? Did you drop your nighttime temperature to under 68 degrees Fahrenheit when your lights were off in the last 3-4 weeks to recreate fall conditions? All these factors/growing conditions have an impact on what the buds look like when they’re ready to be harvested and for the final product in the bag. Different growing conditions can also impact everything from the taste, density, potency and overall quality of your final product. If, like us, you’re looking for the best quality you can grow, there is no substitute for growing in real living soil with lots of red wigglers, under high quality LED lights with a cannabis specific light spectrom. And if you want to crank it up another notch, add supplemental UV light!
BTW - respect for the landrace strains! Without them we wouldn’t have all the crazy hybrids of today! RIP Franco Loja
Kind Above The Cut
Active Member
Our clones are kept in trays with humidity domes. In the last few days before we ship them, we open the vents in our domes. This initiates the hardening process so that they are nice and strong for the journey. With the hydro gel crystals to keep in root zone moist, the LED light in the insulated shipping container and an additional 40-hour heat-pack during the colder months, our babies stay toasty warm and cozy for the trip, no matter what part of Canada they are traveling to!
4our8ighty0
Well-Known Member
Yea he is right I def agree with sativa1970 on a few points and like I said the price per clone is excessive imo,but if they can deliver on genetic quality,root rate,survival rate and keep it under 2 day shipping like they claim I think it will do well. The other major issue I'm just now realizing is the stima that other "quality clone " providers have instilled when growers think about clones. I skipped this thread quite a few times cuz I know the odds of a company delivering have been 0. That doesn't mean it's not something growers are interested in ...it just means all the B.S from failed attempts have jaded anyone that has dabbled in clones to the point of changing grow methods around never using them(unless in house or local af,ofc) and avoiding them and the hassel they entail.
3 locals. we had a member here for a while who works at one.
edit: i wish you luck, but i'm not sold on the business model.
Kind Above The Cut
Active Member
Keep in mind that the market for online order Breeder Cuts already exists. All we have done is sourced our genetics from the most reputable Breeder Cut dealer we could find and then tried to improve the model by using our organic growing know how to produce healthier, more robust clones with significantly more roots. We also improved the shipping with our LED light in the clone shipper and insulated packaging. Because we are the newer players trying to establish ourselves and to avoid undercutting the market, we chose to price match our competitors, minus the taxes and shipping fees. We include the taxes and shipping fees in our prices even though we are putting out a better product. Also, all of our Breeder Cuts have been sold in recent years and months for way more than what we are charging. For example, when Cap Junky Breeder Cuts first went for sale in North America, they were going for $1000 a pop! It’s always a matter of supply and demand. If people are willing to pay a certain price for a product, then it will remain at that price until demand starts to fall. And how can you put a price tag on the process of having the breeders themselves selecting the perfect cut amongst over 100 ladies!? As far as we’re concerned, we stand by our product and our value proposition. So far we have only happy customers. No bugs, no hassle - just super healthy, home delivered clones of world-class genetics!
google street view of business address:
4our8ighty0
Well-Known Member
Yes I def agree. Like I said I think y'all can kill it. I do not know of any good cuts that are available to purchase now. I understand there is already a market but like you said those a locally sourced cuts with bonafide genetic lineages,that do not need to survive a 2 to 3 day shipment also. That's why there are absolutely high priced cuts but that's local. I have not even heard of a clone company that can ship across country or potentially out of country that has,reliable survival rates. I do know there are companies that are claiming to provide excellent cuts but they don't deliver. This is the crux of the point I was making in my last. If you can do what the other companies only claim to do consistently....you will find a eager and willing market. If you are trying to capitalize on what others have already done with the market then you will find it sorely lacking....the unwell state of the clone market is the main reason some cuts can be sold so damn expensive... I'm not congratulating you on inventing anything,I'm congratulating you cuz you seem to know what I'm talking about and have molded your entire business around the current issues in the clone game and I think y'all can do it..I bet Canada has had an equal hard time of the clone game tooKeep in mind that the market for online order Breeder Cuts already exists. All we have done is sourced our genetics from the most reputable Breeder Cut dealer we could find and then tried to improve the model by using our organic growing know how to produce healthier, more robust clones with significantly more roots. We also improved the shipping with our LED light in the clone shipper and insulated packaging. Because we are the newer players trying to establish ourselves and to avoid undercutting the market, we chose to price match our competitors, minus the taxes and shipping fees. We include the taxes and shipping fees in our prices even though we are putting out a better product. Also, all of our Breeder Cuts have been sold in recent years and months for way more than what we are charging. For example, when Cap Junky Breeder Cuts first went for sale in North America, they were going for $1000 a pop! It’s always a matter of supply and demand. If people are willing to pay a certain price for a product, then it will remain at that price until demand starts to fall. And how can you put a price tag on the process of having the breeders themselves selecting the perfect cut amongst over 100 ladies!? As far as we’re concerned, we stand by our product and our value proposition. So far we have only happy customers. No bugs, no hassle - just super healthy, home delivered clones of world-class genetics!
in garden season there are greenhouses here that sell clones but they are all sold more or less in open air markets and will be subject to gathering pests etc. selling a clean cutting is a real advantage.
there are other clone sellers that have popped up previously with 2-day US shipping. i don't recall anything in canada however.
i'm sure it's gonna be dependent on shipping. it's a large part of the cost. they mentioned it's in the $100 range. that's overnight pricing or a 2-day max delivery. so the costing is in the $100 - $150 for the clones alone. that is much closer to the ask for a 5 pack of seeds.
it's the shipping that kills the value proposition. see below :
why not join up as a sponsor and sponsor some grows? nothing gets things going faster than a dozen or so journals all featuring the suppliers genetics. it drives loads of people to purchase.
What do you say?
i say you got a couple hurdles, a look at your greenhouse/grow rooms would help, your website avoids it as well and does not show the mother plants or cloning facilities at all. the google st view does not instill confidence when researching the company.
aside from that nothing beats letting the growers here show how to overcome it. there's also different grow styles, not all your clones are going to land in soil. i run hempy for instance, but it would be nothing to toss the cutting into it.
but i see you hedge your bet :
so what i'm reading here is if we grow by your rules a certain way and it works it's all because of your genetics, and if it turns out craptacular its all because of the grower ... uh - huh.
on top of it if the grower uses other popular grow methods all bets are off ...
maybe you should clarify.
the big money clones are clone only cuts. the strains are usually not available as seed. the issue with those clones, or really any, always comes down to how legit it is. every clone of a crap plant looks like every clone of a killer.
if you've grown for any time it's super easy to produce clones.
it's the grower that makes it work.
4our8ighty0
Well-Known Member
I agree and that's my point. If they can deliver with the parameters I mentioned in beging posts it would justify the price enough to be valuable. If they can guarantee 2 to 3 day shipping,keep the survival rate in the 95% range and can confirm genetics plus that gorgeous and frankly impressive packaging,I my self would a frequent flyer as would many others if the above mentioned bottom lines are met. I wouldn't call saying bud presentation varys depending on where it's located on the plant a bet hedge,that's true and we all don't take pics of our larff so he right. Consistency in bud formation is a sign of good genetics. If they can do what they claim,I think they can they will be ok.I absolutely agree with whoever it was that said the best way to begin building that trust is sponsoring some grows,grow journals,giveaways and competitions. That's how you combat the negative stigma and build the trust. I'm new to 420 but been in grow forums for awhile and even I can think of 3 or 4 excellent pro growers that would have no issues documenting the run with y'all's clones. There are a lot of capable and willing people that would give yalla clones a shot. Sponsor some of them it will help you alot for real...
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