Carmen's Winter Autos With ViparSpectra XS1500 Pro!

[Gee64]

I must say I really don't like your soil! I feel like your rough starts have to be short shrifting your harvests with autos.

I gotta agree with Shed here Carmen but you should test your soil vs your swick.

Start 2 seeds in that mix, swick one and grow the other conventionally.

If they both crash again its the soil. If the conventional one is good, its just mechanics on your part to fix it.

My guess is too wet which causes so many problems (wet=oxygen deficiency) that you get weird looking problems like this that don't really fall under any normal deficiencies other than your plant looks hungry and is cannabalizing itself.

I don't think its a calcium issue to be honest, as it doesn't look nitro deficient.

Either that soil is really non-nutritious, or O2 is being restricted.

The other thing could be low carbon, so a molasses tea may help, but I would dry them out first as much as you can without letting them wilt.

Pretty much all my seedlings in swicks end up too wet and I see things like this.

So in a nutshell if it were me, I would dry them out, see what happens, and if it doesn't get better I would try molasses.

One of the main reasons commercial calmag fixes so many problems is because it usually contains some nitro too, and almost always is a molasses drink with the calmag added.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I gotta agree with Shed here Carmen but you should test your soil vs your swick.

Start 2 seeds in that mix, swick one and grow the other conventionally.

If they both crash again its the soil. If the conventional one is good, its just mechanics on your part to fix it.

My guess is too wet which causes so many problems (wet=oxygen deficiency) that you get weird looking problems like this that don't really fall under any normal deficiencies other than your plant looks hungry and is cannabalizing itself.

I don't think its a calcium issue to be honest, as it doesn't look nitro deficient.

Either that soil is really non-nutritious, or O2 is being restricted.

The other thing could be low carbon, so a molasses tea may help, but I would dry them out first as much as you can without letting them wilt.

Pretty much all my seedlings in swicks end up too wet and I see things like this.

So in a nutshell if it were me, I would dry them out, see what happens, and if it doesn't get better I would try molasses.

One of the main reasons commercial calmag fixes so many problems is because it usually contains some nitro too, and almost always is a molasses drink with the calmag added.

This has been a recurring issue since I started growing autos indoors in this soil and it is only my second swicked grow. Prior to this I top watered. Honestly, I want to scream. Every time it happens watering comes up. I do not over water my plants. The soil is the issue here. That is why I took this to the swick thread to begin with. The seedlings were doing absolutely fine on their swicks until the roots hit the hot soil and that is when the issues presented.

 

[Azimuth]

The seedlings were doing absolutely fine on their swicks until the roots hit the hot soil and that is when the issues presented.

Sounds like you found your answer. I wonder if cutting that soil mix with another, less powerful one would help in some fixed ratio, 1:1, 1:2, etc, or even some perlite might help.

If it's too dense and you have an O2 problem, adding perlite should help. On the other hand if it is too hot, then cutting it with a more gentle soil might help. They don't look burnt to me though, but heavy strange growth like Gee said indicates an overwatering issue.

That just means too much water getting to, and lingering around, the roots, not necessarily something you're doing wrong. But, it could be the mechanics of a dense soil that is meant to be used with a wet/dry cycle meeting the swick structure that works on different principles not allowing the soil to breathe enough.

If you still want to use it (and it does sound like some pretty good stuff) I'd try adding some perlite to the mix. If you can find out what percentage of the original mix is perlite that would be best, and try to get it to, say, 40% of total volume, you could use that and see if it helps.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Sounds like you found your answer. I wonder if cutting that soil mix with another, less powerful one would help in some fixed ratio, 1:1, 1:2, etc, or even some perlite might help.

If it's too dense and you have an O2 problem, adding perlite should help. On the other hand if it is too hot, then cutting it with a more gentle soil might help. They don't look burnt to me though, but heavy strange growth like Gee said indicates an overwatering issue.

That just means too much water getting to, and lingering around, the roots, not necessarily something you're doing wrong. But, it could be the mechanics of a dense soil that is meant to be used with a wet/dry cycle meeting the swick structure that works on different principles not allowing the soil to breathe enough.

If you still want to use it (and it does sound like some pretty good stuff) I'd try adding some perlite to the mix. If you can find out what percentage of the original mix is perlite that would be best, and try to get it to, say, 40% of total volume, you could use that and see if it helps.

I had wondered if I should repot this plant tomorrow and if I do would I cut the fresh soil with perlite. I'd have to reuse some of the soggy flushed soil and the perlite might help to deliver more 02 to the roots. Also because I wonder if reducing the concentration of the soil would help matters. I want to try to find fish hydrolysate and worm castings to add if I can. I'm hoping this will help the flushed plant.

I cannot impress enough upon you and Gee, that this issue predates the swick and goes all the way back to the times of the wet / dry cycle!

I'm horrified now that Gee thinks my plants are hungry and cannibalizing themselves! Can that be?

The symptoms of the two plants differ. The sickly (from birth) Parmesan auto developed a shadowy look to the leaves which then went brown and dry in patches.

The Gelato auto's leaves were starting to claw. There is no sign of any other leaf damage on this plant.

As I say, going forward I will seek advice from the guys who sell a variety of soils etc. I will contact them tomorrow. I'm on borrowed time with this auto and that is why I am going to reuse some of the flushed soil and mix it with fresh soil and extra perlite for now.

 

[Azimuth]

I cannot impress enough upon you and Gee, that this issue predates the swick and goes all the way back to the times of the wet / dry cycle!

Ha! No worries. We're not going to blame the swick.

I'm horrified now that Gee thinks my plants are hungry and cannibalizing themselves! Can that be?

@Gee64 often over-dramatizes things for effect.

(No he doesn't. I don't know why I said that...)

I think he's saying he sees signs of those conditions but that would be consistent with a root issue not delivery the nutes to the plant.

As I say, going forward I will seek advice from the guys who sell a variety of soils etc. I will contact them tomorrow. I'm on borrowed time with this auto and that is why I am going to reuse some of the flushed soil and mix it with fresh soil and extra perlite for now.

Will be good to see if that helps. Either way it should narrow down the possible issues for you.

 

[Gee64]

This has been a recurring issue since I started growing autos indoors in this soil and it is only my second swicked grow. Prior to this I top watered. Honestly, I want to scream. Every time it happens watering comes up. I do not over water my plants. The soil is the issue here. That is why I took this to the swick thread to begin with. The seedlings were doing absolutely fine on their swicks until the roots hit the hot soil and that is when the issues presented.

Theres your answer then.

 

[Gee64]

Ha! No worries. We're not going to blame the swick.


@Gee64 often over-dramatizes things for effect.

(No he doesn't. I don't know why I said that...)

I think he's saying he sees signs of those conditions but that would be consistent with a root issue not delivery the nutes to the plant.


Will be good to see if that helps. Either way it should narrow down the possible issues for you.

If something is wrong with your soil then yes, plants can starve. If PH is out your plant can't eat no matter how much food is available. I apologize Carmen, I thought this started with your swicking and I have terrible problems with swicks keeping my young sprouts too wet, and it causes these exact issues, except they also get light like a nitro def, so I figured if I am swicking and you are swicking and our sprouts are doing the same exact thing....

 

[Carmen Ray]

If something is wrong with your soil then yes, plants can starve. If PH is out your plant can't eat no matter how much food is available. I apologize Carmen, I thought this started with your swicking and I have terrible problems with swicks keeping my young sprouts too wet, and it causes these exact issues, except they also get light like a nitro def, so I figured if I am swicking and you are swicking and our sprouts are doing the same exact thing....

No that's ok Gee, thank you for your thoughts on the problem! I have suspected a nitrogen toxicity with the Gelato auto but I don't know if that is consistent with hot soil. I thought clawed leaves = nitrogen toxic? There is no other leaf or plant damage on the Gelato, and growth continues visibly throughout the day. I worry that if I do cut the soil with perlite and flushed soil, there may not be enough nutrition in the medium to feed the plant and I end up with malnourished plants that way. I will try to speak to the soil guys before I do that. They know the Orgasoilux.

Someone explained to me that microbial activity produces chemical compounds and that if the micro-herd are not happy, ph will go out of balance. The advice for treatment was to flush and then feed the micro-herd with worm castings. You, Nick and Azi also suggested worm castings, so I am going to try to find some. Maybe the soil guys have it in stock. That and the fish hydrolysate. Still, I can't feed anything liquid until the pot is dry and that could take a while. The grower who spoke to me about feeding the micro-herd said it would take two to three days for the plant to recover. It has been 24 hours.

I'm not sure whether to re-pot or to wait another day or two. Any suggestions?

Clawed leaf issue 2 days after Calmag and 24 hours after flush.

Gelato Auto

• Carmen Ray
• Jul 2, 2023
• calmag claw leaf swick swicking

2 Days after Calmag.
24 hours after flush
Can the clawing be attributed to hot soil?
Reasonably...

Leaf clawing

• Carmen Ray
• Jul 2, 2023
• clawed leaf

Is this nitrogen toxicity? Is it consistent with hot soil?

Leaf necrosis 2 days after Calmag

Parmesan Auto

• Carmen Ray
• Jul 2, 2023
• calmag cannabis seedling swick swicking

2 Days after dosing with Calmag.
Third leaves seem unaffected by the nutrient issue at this...

Healthy seedling on a swick

Seedling On Swick

• Carmen Ray
• Jul 2, 2023
• cannabis seedling swick swicking

Perfectly healthy seedling on a swick from birth.
50 % bonsai seedling mix with Orgasoilux.

My observation is that the plants are happy swicking through the seedling mix but that when their roots hit the super soil things go awry. This leads me to believe that the soil is too hot for the young auto plants. Are the symptoms I am seeing consistent with soil that is too rich for seedlings? That's my question.

 

[InTheShed]

Someone explained to me that microbial activity produces chemical compounds and that if the micro-herd are not happy, ph will go out of balance. The advice for treatment was to flush and then feed the micro-herd with worm castings.

I have no idea if an unhappy microherd can change the pH of soil (seems possible depending on what unhappy means!) but I'm pretty sure flushing it will have no effect on pH whatsoever.

Also, that clawing doesn't look like an N toxicity to me. It looks more like the leaf tip responding to the fact that the rest of the leaf is curling under.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I have no idea if an unhappy microherd can change the pH of soil (seems possible depending on what unhappy means!) but I'm pretty sure flushing it will have no effect on pH whatsoever.

Also, that clawing doesn't look like an N toxicity to me. It looks more like the leaf tip responding to the fact that the rest of the leaf is curling under.

I don't see the leaves curling under to be honest. I see flat leaves with clawed tips. I have a visitor today, another grower. He has looked at the plant and said it doesn't look bad in his opinion and that the clawing is possibly due to the plant coming into contact with soil that is verging on too hot for it.

I dosed with Calmag after seeing what happened to the other plant's leaves. I didn't want that to happen to this plant too. I realize that it was a mistake to do that as the clawing seemed to spread and affect the leaves at the fourth and fifth nodes. That is why I flushed. The ph checking was an additional step that I haven't taken yet.

Now I don't know whether to repot or leave the plant be. We'll look at that but judging from the plant's condition that may not be necessary, as there is no droop for the soggy soil atm and growth is still vigorous. I'll see what the guys at Marijuana SA say about the soil situation. They open in 45 minutes.

 

[InTheShed]

The edges of these leaves are all pointing toward the soil:

That's what made me think it wasn't a nitrogen toxicity.

 

[Carmen Ray]

The edges of these leaves are all pointing toward the soil:

That's what made me think it wasn't a nitrogen toxicity.

Thank you. I didn't notice that myself until you showed me in this picture. I have googled what can cause leaves to curl and it can be any one or more of several things. Let's hope it doesn't get worse and let's see if I can keep this Gelato 2 happier than Gelato 1. I am definitely going to change the way I use the soil or change products for starters.

 

[ViparSpectra]

 

[Carmen Ray]

Thanks you Valerie!

I have chatted with the grow shop this morning. They say that the Orgasoilux is a very hot soil so I can go ahead and cut the remaining Orgasoilux with mushroom compost for the second Gelato.

I will leave the Parmesan as is, and on second thoughts the Gelato 1 is doing quite well considering the recent shocks its had. I no longer see the necessity of repotting that plant and risking root damage / further shock. Her growth is still vigorous. Her second node side branches have grown a couple of cm since this time yesterday.

Marijuana SA retracted their bad review of the Freedom Farms soil I was going to use for one plant. They say that the soil has improved and they now recommend it highly. I will get some of that for my next grow!

 

[NickHardy]

I think it was @Roy Growin I was reading today some times adds some 1-2% H2O2 as a clean and a boost but you lose a chunk of your beneficials? But cleans the roots

I can send you some of our pool water

Nick

 

[Azimuth]

That doesn’t look like clawing fron N toxicity, at least what I know it to look like. To me those are leaves beginning to point down suggesting a watering issue (too wet in this case).

 

[Carmen Ray]

That doesn’t look like clawing fron N toxicity, at least what I know it to look like. To me those are leaves beginning to point down suggesting a watering issue (too wet in this case).

It definitely is overwatered post flush. Perhaps this will be the plant that is top watered from now on. Fortunately there has been no visible delay in growth since the flush. I'm glad it is not a nitrogen toxicity. Thank you Azi. I have put that plant out in the sun this afternoon! I am hoping that will dry the soil a bit quicker.

 

[InTheShed]

Thanks you Valerie!

I have chatted with the grow shop this morning. They say that the Orgasoilux is a very hot soil so I can go ahead and cut the remaining Orgasoilux with mushroom compost for the second Gelato.

I will leave the Parmesan as is, and on second thoughts the Gelato 1 is doing quite well considering the recent shocks its had. I no longer see the necessity of repotting that plant and risking root damage / further shock. Her growth is still vigorous. Her second node side branches have grown a couple of cm since this time yesterday.

Marijuana SA retracted their bad review of the Freedom Farms soil I was going to use for one plant. They say that the soil has improved and they now recommend it highly. I will get some of that for my next grow!

Knowledge is power!

 

[Carmen Ray]

I think it was @Roy Growin I was reading today some times adds some 1-2% H2O2 as a clean and a boost but you lose a chunk of your beneficials? But cleans the roots

I can send you some of our pool water

Nick

Hiya Nick. I'm leaving the plants to do their own thing for a few days from now. I added worm castings to each pot. and worked it in a bit by hand in the case of the increasingly less soggy pot, so that they have a better chance of being effective sooner.

Knowledge is power!

Aye, that it is Thank you to everyone who brainstormed and advised and contributed their knowledge


Here's the plant out in the sun this afternoon.

Gelato auto 1

• Carmen Ray
• Jul 3, 2023
• cannabis seedling gelato auto herbies seeds hot soil over watered vipar spectra xs1500 pro

In the cool winter sun on a cake rack drying, the day after being flushed.

 

[InTheShed]

Here's the plant out in the sun this afternoon.

Don't burn it!