Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

[SweetSue]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I've just finished my conversation with the friendly biochemist who cautioned me against using the ISO in any form. There are particulates left in the product that are negligible unless you're ingesting. He's actually processed a fair amount of CCO himself and done experimentation with different solvent grades. He assures me that quality plant material processed with Everclear 151 will give me a high-quality oil that is just slightly behind what I should expect with pure alcohol.

Thank you for your patience in this discussion. There won't be any more resistance on my part.

As an aside, he shared that he'd tried distilling lower proof alcohol to gain the advantage of higher ethanol content but was discouraged by the amount of loss in the process. It'll be interesting to see what results Mighty Mouse gets.

Everclear 151 it is. My challenge becomes one of increasing trichome production as much as possible. I think I'm up to that challenge.

Thanks guys.

 

[Dave Groomer]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

When we consider distilling, there are very important factors to consider. One, is the boiling point of all of the added chemicals. If the boiling point of those chemicals is never reached during distilling, the chemicals will be left in the bottom of the distiller with the oil mixture waiting to evaporate what is left of the alcohol and water. That doesn't mean the bad stuff will evaporate along with the alcohol. It will be in the CCO and will also be concentrated when the alcohol is removed by the distillation. Anyone that has used the distiller to distill water knows what is left in the bottom. When the added chemicals are concentrated by distilling and removing their carrier, it must be safe to assume the patient is receiving more than a minimal amount of those adulterants.



WJ

What if the boiling point of the "additive" is lower then alcohol? It will evaporate first into the solvent. I am not sure?

 

[Dennise]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I apologize if my post comes across as rude, that is not my intention. As a survivor of several solvent wars, the topic has been beaten to a pulp and, in my mind, is resolved with the conclusion that for people who make the oil at home, ethanol, Everclear, organic alcohol, food grade alcohol, is the best, safest and most practical solvent. If you are in the cannabis oil business to make a profit, there are better ways to go about this, especially if you don't mind a little poison in your oil. If this symbol is on your solvent, it is the wrong one to use for edible oil.

You have nothing to apologize for... You are exactly correct........

When we consider distilling, there are very important factors to consider. One, is the boiling point of all of the added chemicals. If the boiling point of those chemicals is never reached during distilling, the chemicals will be left in the bottom of the distiller with the oil mixture waiting to evaporate what is left of the alcohol and water. That doesn't mean the bad stuff will evaporate along with the alcohol. It will be in the CCO and will also be concentrated when the alcohol is removed by the distillation. Anyone that has used the distiller to distill water knows what is left in the bottom. When the added chemicals are concentrated by distilling and removing their carrier, it must be safe to assume the patient is receiving more than a minimal amount of those adulterants.



WJ

Perfect and correctly said........

 

[SweetSue]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I apologize if my post comes across as rude, that is not my intention. As a survivor of several solvent wars, the topic has been beaten to a pulp and, in my mind, is resolved with the conclusion that for people who make the oil at home, ethanol, Everclear, organic alcohol, food grade alcohol, is the best, safest and most practical solvent. If you are in the cannabis oil business to make a profit, there are better ways to go about this, especially if you don't mind a little poison in your oil. If this symbol is on your solvent, it is the wrong one to use for edible oil.

Circuit, I didn't think that passionate response rude in the slightest. I do my best to set the ego aside in these types of discussions, and given your personal health history I have the greatest respect for your viewpoint.

 

[wildjim]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

What if the boiling point of the "additive" is lower then alcohol? It will evaporate first into the solvent. I am not sure?

If it's boiling point is lower, it will evaporate before the alcohol. The alcohol will be next. One chemical added to ISO is methyl isobutyl ketone,as seen in a post just a few above this, has it's boiling point at 244.5 degrees Fahrenheit. If you reach 250 when decarboxylating some will evaporate, but what if you only reach 244F when you stop? Is your thermometer that precise? Not mine. Food quality is just that.

WJ

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I apologize if my post comes across as rude, that is not my intention. As a survivor of several solvent wars, the topic has been beaten to a pulp and, in my mind, is resolved with the conclusion that for people who make the oil at home, ethanol, Everclear, organic alcohol, food grade alcohol, is the best, safest and most practical solvent. If you are in the cannabis oil business to make a profit, there are better ways to go about this, especially if you don't mind a little poison in your oil. If this symbol is on your solvent, it is the wrong one to use for edible oil.

I was just about to type out the whole warning label on my bottle of Isopropyl. (no need for it now, I think everyone's pretty clear on it) It's kind of scary, to say the least. Warning labels on google images were many to do with application to animals, and warning of ingesting and not using on deep open wounds...etc. etc.
Poor animals, if it isn't good for us...it certainly isn't good for them.

 

[HemiSync]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I got warning letters from the US feds, see pics in earlier post. Looks like a mass mailing sort of thing, except that the purchaser's info is given to the US feds by the seller, according to the place I got one from, "because we have to". Anyway, the letters look like a way to scare me away from making booze. If I wanted to make liquor, this is not the equipment to use. But it is working fine for my at home extraction of cannabis oil and recovery of about 75% of the 190 proof Everclear.

I was going to order the Green Oil Machine, but will rethink this after this information. If I get on a federal list for buying a alcohol distiller, how soon after I order the GOM before LE show up at my door with a warrant. Thanks for the heads up.

Hi HemiSync,
Please refer to these two posts for info on that:

Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

There were a few posts in between that talked about it as well, but you'll get the basics from those two.

Tried using those links but for some reason it just keeps taking me to the next page in this topic. I will try searching for those posts manually. Thanks for the info.

 

[CCOiler]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

The quest for a safe solvent to extract cannabis oil

Well said circuit, CCO is here to heal us, not to poison (ISO) us. For those that want to talk about ISO please feel free to start your own thread


CCO HEALS

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Hi HemiSync,
The links work from my end, but I have to wait a few seconds for the page to load to the actual post it's linked to.
Maybe try waiting for a little bit for the page to completely load

 

[94xjjohn]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Thanks Mr. Obvious!

SORRY

Captain Obvious.

 

[Dennise]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

What if the boiling point of the "additive" is lower then alcohol? It will evaporate first into the solvent. I am not sure?

Possibly so Super but there is no possible way of knowing that info... Again all we are talking here is a matter of a little bit extra time in the oven... Is the health of your wife or yourself worth taking even the most minute chance of introducing a toxin to your system... John is right? How much is too much for your liver, pancreas, kidneys..... and if your treating a patient that is already compromised you could most certainly do more harm than good.... It really just should be a non-issue... It is not safe and we go to such extreme to make sure we use the best flowers to make the best meds so why muck it up at the very end to save a little time.... I simply don't see an upside... Be safe.. be responsible and make your meds clean as possible... otherwise it just defeats the whole purpose.....

 

[CajunCelt]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I see our old friend, the ISO alcohol topic, is back.
It pops up regularly, for good reason, about every 18 months.
I'll post the science... might help some decide.

It was raining hard the day ISO alcohol was invented, so the Creator could not add any rays of sunshine. Unlike ethanol, which was created the same day that smiles were made.
So, ISO is missing rainbows & ethanol has smiles put in it.
See how easy that was? And ppl say we just make this stuff up....

Happy Sunday!

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

And it won't be the last time it comes up Cajun. I think what made this one different is the questions on whether the distillation would "clean it up". Obviously, from what has been discovered, it will not.
I'm going to blog all of the links and pertinent posts, so it can be answered easier next time.
Discussions are good, and questions with concrete answers are even better.

On the distilling I'm doing right now, I can smell the mint quite strongly that was in that vodka. That means the exhaust fan isn't doing a complete job.
It's going in the garage where I can leave a door open without losing my home heat, which the exhaust fan is dragging out.
I've got a slight headache going, but I'm not sure if that's all of the reading on this computer screen or the distilling.

 

[circuit]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Thank you for being nice, it sure helps with communication when everyone is polite.

As far as putting the extracted oil into a still, for sure we lose terpenes and some other compounds, but if you want to recover the alcohol, the heat is needed. Rotovap equipment allows precise control of temperature, so you could minimize the losses of volatile compounds, and the glassware allows great recovery, but it costs a few thousand to get even a used setup, and the benefits may not be enough to justify cost. Excellent idea to be able to adjust the temperature of a counter top still, very sensible solution. Keep in mind that the resin we remove from the plants has been sitting in a hot and moist room with lots of soil for a few months, so is far from sterile. Heating the oil up can 'pasteurize' it, killing pathogens, while also decarbing, so I like to include a high enough temp, long enough, to clean the oil up. General guidelines, like sterilizing any surfaces that the product comes in contact with, a good use for iso, and wearing gloves when making, help too. Even topical containers and mixing bowls should be wiped down with a sterilizer like iso.

Getting excited about making a topical. Planning to use the .75g per 4 oz jar amount. I'll take pictures and post up the recipe, going to add coconut oil, aloe and beeswax to a bulk lotion base. Aiming for a very thick lotion with serious pain killing properties. Will make enough to share some, so be nice and maybe you can try it out too. Wonder if the CBD oil would be worthwhile too? No fragrances will be added, hope it doesn't smell bad without any.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Thank you for being nice, it sure helps with communication when everyone is polite.

Getting excited about making a topical. Planning to use the .75g per 4 oz jar amount. I'll take pictures and post up the recipe, going to add coconut oil, aloe and beeswax to a bulk lotion base. Aiming for a very thick lotion with serious pain killing properties. Will make enough to share some, so be nice and maybe you can try it out too. Wonder if the CBD oil would be worthwhile too? No fragrances will be added, hope it doesn't smell bad without any.

I couldn't agree more on everyone being polite.

I would be happy to test out your lotion....I've been very nice...santa.

I have another crock of infused coconut oil base all ready today.

The mini crock never got over 224 degrees, so it's definitely not a viable decarb unit. Works great for melting things down for mixing though.

 

[circuit]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

You can decarb at the lower temp, lots of people use 200-ish and leave it longer, like overnight. The decarb chart shows approximate times for the different temps, but they are just ballpark numbers. not sure what the best temp is to sterilize, but 248f has been working well here.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Circuit, Thanks for that. Interesting
I might put that to the test soon. I've already decarbed everything I have as far as trim and such. I have to wait for more. Harvesting in the next couple days and maybe one soon after.

I wish I could get that bulk lotion, but not possible right now. I do have another idea on how to get some though. Wish me luck. LOL

 

[Dave Groomer]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Possibly so Super but there is no possible way of knowing that info... Again all we are talking here is a matter of a little bit extra time in the oven... Is the health of your wife or yourself worth taking even the most minute chance of introducing a toxin to your system... John is right? How much is too much for your liver, pancreas, kidneys..... and if your treating a patient that is already compromised you could most certainly do more harm than good.... It really just should be a non-issue... It is not safe and we go to such extreme to make sure we use the best flowers to make the best meds so why muck it up at the very end to save a little time.... I simply don't see an upside... Be safe.. be responsible and make your meds clean as possible... otherwise it just defeats the whole purpose.....

Not trying to argue I agree. I was asking as point of interest. It MAY be that everything evaporates off. I don't have enough meds to make a batch of each and send it out to the lab for an analysis. I am thinking that would be the only way to "prove" ISO is safe. Until then, Everclear it is!!!

 

[circuit]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

I do not think that the testing that we see done to cannabis typically will look for everything, those tests seem to be tailored to look for just certain compounds. Something about the machine used. I think the operator needs to look for stuff by setting up the machine to test for a range of compounds, not sure if places like Steep Hill are looking for the stuff in iso. Good question to ask them.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannabis Oil Users Cafe & Lounge

Ah....the power of the reclaim. I have nice clear alcohol now.

Here's what I started with, it's brown from the mint leaves soaking in it so long. (I haven't tasted this, but it no longer smells of the leaves. It smells like alcohol.)

This was about a fifth and a half of 80 proof vodka:

Here's what I wound up with:

And this is what was left in the distiller:

Can one of you guys with the hydrometer pop over and proof this for me?

This is certainly going to be done in the garage from now on. I wound up with a doozy of a headache and a sore throat as well from just that little bit of time doing this in my kitchen under the exhaust fan. Just wasn't enough, apparently. The noticeable part compared to last time had to be because of that mint.

Be safe!