Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

kelticBlue said:
This is what i find on Oyster shell flour as a lime 'agent' o 'replacement'


in addition:



:goodluck:
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I actually feel rather stupid now as prior to my egg shell reference I had googled Oyster Shell Powder in the past and actually jotted down what it was, but the reference to oyster shell totally threw me....haha @kelticBlue

@TheFertilizer , you ahead of my game bud, as I assume you referenced what I understand to be about CEC, and how it applies to soil..... happy me as I'm piecing it all together....:thanks:
 
RE: Oyster Shell Four - we use this for long term Ca release. We use other amendments for short term Ca. (EWC, gypsum and compost) then when the plants begin to need more Ca, the Ca its becoming available from the oyster shell flour.

Oyster shell flour is mainly all Calcium Carbonate and several other trace minerals. There's no Mg (magnesium) involved. There's Mg in Dolomite lime so go REAL easy with that stuff in a container.
It's not a substitute for Ca.

Smeegol.. look for a Agricultural supply store close to you. The will carry several amendments you need for your soil. Some form of lime will be one. They actually mix that in with feed for the animals. Its a requirement. Also they use it on FALLOW fields. You cant add Ca to a pot with a living plant in it... it will throw off the PH and mess up the micro-herd. Best to use EWC - it has a lot of goodies, one of em is Ca and in readily available form. Another is kelp meal (will have that also at the AG Store) reason its called meal is they feed it to the animals because the plants they grow to feed the animals lacks all the minerals animals (and plants) need to remain healthy.

Egg shells take soooo long to break down I don't even add them into my compost bins much anymore. They take YEARS to break down. Good aeration tho. Vinegar works in a closed lid jar. Acetic acid (vinegar) is REAL bad for plants tho... follow instructions if you wanna make that stuff.. but it works. Takes a few weeks tho...

In SA they likely have Oyster shell flour. Agian check the AG store pretty sure they carry it. It's not shells ground, it's mined from a rock formation formed 10s of thousands of years or more ago. Think sea beds.


You can use vinegar as a weed preventative... its organic.
 
bobrown14 said:
RE: Oyster Shell Four - we use this for long term Ca release. We use other amendments for short term Ca. (EWC, gypsum and compost) then when the plants begin to need more Ca, the Ca its becoming available from the oyster shell flour.

Oyster shell flour is mainly all Calcium Carbonate and several other trace minerals. There's no Mg (magnesium) involved. There's Mg in Dolomite lime so go REAL easy with that stuff in a container.
It's not a substitute for Ca.

Smeegol.. look for a Agricultural supply store close to you. The will carry several amendments you need for your soil. Some form of lime will be one. They actually mix that in with feed for the animals. Its a requirement. Also they use it on FALLOW fields. You cant add Ca to a pot with a living plant in it... it will throw off the PH and mess up the micro-herd. Best to use EWC - it has a lot of goodies, one of em is Ca and in readily available form. Another is kelp meal (will have that also at the AG Store) reason its called meal is they feed it to the animals because the plants they grow to feed the animals lacks all the minerals animals (and plants) need to remain healthy.

Egg shells take soooo long to break down I don't even add them into my compost bins much anymore. They take YEARS to break down. Good aeration tho. Vinegar works in a closed lid jar. Acetic acid (vinegar) is REAL bad for plants tho... follow instructions if you wanna make that stuff.. but it works. Takes a few weeks tho...

In SA they likely have Oyster shell flour. Agian check the AG store pretty sure they carry it. It's not shells ground, it's mined from a rock formation formed 10s of thousands of years or more ago. Think sea beds.


You can use vinegar as a weed preventative... its organic.
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Thanks for the detailed description, but I have a question about the vinegar, what takes a few weeks to make?
 
@bobrown14, thankyou very much for that explanation( I got my hands on 2 kilos of kelp meal today at the farm co-op ) but they don't quite understand when I ask for certain items and my little town is very narrow minded towards MJ as 70% of the population is very " Conservative " ." Afrikaans Speaking "

Afrikaans ( the language comes from the Dutch settlers who landed on the shores of South Africa in the 1800's I believe .. But once the British arrived they didn't see eye to eye, and the British started to colonise parts of South Africa, all revolved around coastal trade routes.. The Dutch forced to give way to the British returned to their homeland and those that stayed behind withdrew inland hundreds upon hundreds of miles till the British were out of sight/ out of mind and started their own republic within South Africa but that was not to last as the British now wanted to establish trade routes throughout the interior of South Africa and wanted to colonize the "Boer " republic as it became known, which ultimately led to the " Boer War " which raged back and forth over the span of a couple years....

apologies for going off topic everyone...

@Lonestar11, I believe @bobrown14 is referring to the egg shells breaking down in the vinager solution as diy cal/mag solution. but I'll defer to those more knowledgeable than i as I think you may ask @Amy Gardner or have a look at @MerryAnna's thread as I'm sure it was either of those ladies where I read that....
 
Smeegol said:
as I think you may ask @Amy Gardner or have a look at @MerryAnna's thread as I'm sure it was either of those ladies where I read that...
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I haven’t don’t this yet - but I’ve been thinking about it. Either you read my mind, dear Smeegol, or you read about it in @InTheShed ’s journal - I know he has some going at the moment. There is also member @Emilya - who has a recipe for making a cal-phos using semi cooked/charred eggshells...

@bobrown14 Hi bob, can you say a bit more about the time it takes for the Ca in oyster shell flour to become available? How long is a long time...? Do you know of any reference for further reading about it?
:Namaste:
 
Smeegol said:
Is there a way within this entire forum that we can create a folder of sorts to store the info we need/find, similar to our pic albums... or is there a thread I can go to.....:thanks:
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Well there used to be the blogs. But they haven’t been reinstated since the site software upgrade. They are planning to reintroduce them, though there is no timeline on that.
I have the same problem sometimes. I collect things in my notes app - or screenshot - and I try to remember to include the member name with the info... it kinda works...
 
that thc bomb is going to need a tent for sure ,depending on when you flip to flower and how old it is before showing its sex ,these plant can get quite large , I had 6 large top colas and the plant was almost 4 feet tall and 2 1/2 feet wide , I didn't scrog but I did fim , topped , and cleaned out the bottom 1 1/2 feet of branches etc , I do admit my leds may have been a little far away causing a little stretching but these plant want to get big and bushy if you let them , are both of these plants in the same cupboard ? not sure how the cheese is , never grown before . ps I was using co2 also .
 
Great discussion on organics and compost! The precision measurements of ingredients seems professional-grade advice but dare I say it, overthinking? When micro-quantities of some nutrients are needed in soil and you are talking adding kgs of stuff to prevent the lack of nutrients e.g. calcium being a limiting factor in growth, what size is the compost, are we talking back yard box or industrial?

I'm getting an outdoor grow off the ground, and have gardened for years using household and garden compost ingredients. My garden does great, tomatoes are huge, I don't get aphids, and I expect the same results from my cannabis. Proof is in the pudding, not questioning the details but I'm really not going to extremes with my garden and maybe its because there are regular supply of bones and green veg bits that get into my compost (and it cures for a good 8-12 months first) that I THINK it contains a broad range of nutrition. Still, I'll be likely adding some seaweed or manure later in the season. Everything else grows....so should this weed!
 
Amy Gardner said:
@bobrown14 Hi bob, can you say a bit more about the time it takes for the Ca in oyster shell flour to become available? How long is a long time...? Do you know of any reference for further reading about it?
:Namaste:
Click to expand...

Long time = ~ 3-6 months... then slow release.

Here's a nice short article about the different sources of Ca. Now mind the description for Dolomite... in a container it will contain too much Mg over time, outdoors its fine to use. So just be aware of that.

Ag Lime, Dolomite, Gypsum, Oyster Shell…What Kind of Calcium Do You Need? - Walt's Organic Fertilizer Co.

Here's another good read - talks to the use of eggshells as a Ca source as well with direction on how to process egg shells. Now that I read that, I think I will incorporate this into my compost bins. Also says the oyster shell flour is long term release @ 1-2 years. I use a special type of oyster shell flour that is actually a ancient sea bed that is being mined for the flour. So it's not ground up oyster shells ... splitting hairs but its not the same thing.

Here's what I use for oyster shell flour - it's under the name of Pacific Pearl Oyster shell flour - if you look around that website there's other uses for this product. As you will see, it's used primarily in AG as a feed amemdment for animals so they stay healthy and then humans stay healthy too! A little food for thought.

Ag Lime | Oyster Shell Soil Amendments | San Francisco Bay Area

Here's the article:
Organic Calcium Sources, Organic Calcium for Gardens

And some science:

Effects of Oyster Shell on Soil Chemical and Biological...
 
CoastRoaster said:
Great discussion on organics and compost! The precision measurements of ingredients seems professional-grade advice but dare I say it, overthinking? When micro-quantities of some nutrients are needed in soil and you are talking adding kgs of stuff to prevent the lack of nutrients e.g. calcium being a limiting factor in growth, what size is the compost, are we talking back yard box or industrial?

I'm getting an outdoor grow off the ground, and have gardened for years using household and garden compost ingredients. My garden does great, tomatoes are huge, I don't get aphids, and I expect the same results from my cannabis. Proof is in the pudding, not questioning the details but I'm really not going to extremes with my garden and maybe its because there are regular supply of bones and green veg bits that get into my compost (and it cures for a good 8-12 months first) that I THINK it contains a broad range of nutrition. Still, I'll be likely adding some seaweed or manure later in the season. Everything else grows....so should this weed!
Click to expand...

Reason for measurements is mainly we are growing in containers. There's not a lot of room for soil buffering if you have say too much Mg because you use Dolomite lime for example. In containers the Ca gets used up with limited soil, no additional source of Ca and you end up with Mg toxicity.

If you're veggie garden is in high gear, you should be fine with cannabis outdoors. It's a little bit different outdoors than in containers indoors.

Indoors we are creating an artificial environment with organic soil in a limited container with artificial lighting. For best performance it's critical that everything in the soil is going full speed ahead and dialed in. It takes a little practice and patience.

Yes from an organic outdoor grower... it would seem to be over thinking, until you try it indoors. Same principals apply but it's not "dig up your garden soil and put it in a bucket and get the same result". It would be nice if we could do that. You could try it.... grow some in your garden and a plant or 2 in a bucket (add drainage holes) with the same soil and see how it grows.. be a cool side by side experiment.

Tip - grow the tomatoes on the other side of garden away from cannabis. Aphids are a no-go on cannabis. Bud washing doesn't get rid of them after harvest the aphids stick (from the honeydew) to the flowers (even dead) ... cannabis ends up being compost. Unless aphids is your thing.. which they are for lots of insects (ants wasps etc)..

Healthy soil, healthy plants and less pests.

Challenge for container gardening is keeping the micro-herd healthy and alive. They in tern keep the plants healthy and alive.. same as outdoors but in a container there's FAR FAR less soil. So its more critical to have the soil close to optimal.
 
Good evening @bobrown14 and everyone else.

I'm due surgery on Thursday so that gives even more time to work on this soil......:cheer: so I'll be in more often asking questions if that's ok with you fine folk, 6-12 months I have before theory goes live.....:slide::slide:

Have a mighty fine evening and thanks for all the help and advice so far everyone....:thanks:
 
bobrown14 said:
Long time = ~ 3-6 months... then slow release.

Here's a nice short article about the different sources of Ca. Now mind the description for Dolomite... in a container it will contain too much Mg over time, outdoors its fine to use. So just be aware of that.

Ag Lime, Dolomite, Gypsum, Oyster Shell…What Kind of Calcium Do You Need? - Walt's Organic Fertilizer Co.

Here's another good read - talks to the use of eggshells as a Ca source as well with direction on how to process egg shells. Now that I read that, I think I will incorporate this into my compost bins. Also says the oyster shell flour is long term release @ 1-2 years. I use a special type of oyster shell flour that is actually a ancient sea bed that is being mined for the flour. So it's not ground up oyster shells ... splitting hairs but its not the same thing.

Here's what I use for oyster shell flour - it's under the name of Pacific Pearl Oyster shell flour - if you look around that website there's other uses for this product. As you will see, it's used primarily in AG as a feed amemdment for animals so they stay healthy and then humans stay healthy too! A little food for thought.

Ag Lime | Oyster Shell Soil Amendments | San Francisco Bay Area

Here's the article:
Organic Calcium Sources, Organic Calcium for Gardens

And some science:

Effects of Oyster Shell on Soil Chemical and Biological...
Click to expand...

:thanks:
 
@bobrown14 - appreciate the articles very much bb! I am starting to put together an order for amendments over the next few weeks so the timing is good. I worked oyster shell flour (and Gypsum and Palagonite) into the raised bed for the season I’ve just had and I think the OSF has been really good. I had a really good conversation with the guy at the supplier last year (organic gardening solutions in AUS - I have a hunch he is the same guy behind ‘The Pot Cast’) and he talked to me about some deep pacific source off the west coast of New Zealand where their OSF comes from, so I think I had the same stuff you mention. I’m still in 2 minds about doing it all myself again or just going with the ‘kit’. It’s working out more expensive and more labour intensive doing it myself, but I’m not big on the idea of a whole lot of plastic bottles (even if they contain organic things) - and TBH the kit is possibly as labour intensive, except I won’t have to go out and collect plants to make my foliars and drenches! Convenience and cost may win out yet. It’s the soil cooking part that stumps me with both approaches. I can’t mix up such a huge amount at once, or move it around, or keep it warm enough at this time of year... so I’m assessing my options. I’m planning a single plant grow in a grow box in my shed this winter - so I really appreciate how you distinguish between the container grow and the raised bed or in the ground grow :thumb:. That’s important. I figure I’ll try to do a nice big pot! Will post a ‘recipe’ once I assess what I did this year and devise a revised one...
Cheers to everyone’s green gardens!
:green_heart::Namaste:
 
Thanks Amy for the kinds words :Namaste:

I wouldn't worry too much about the "cooking" part. I've mixed soil and planted in it the next day lots of times indoors and out. Indoors of course its containers but outdoors we have raised beds as well as perennials and berry bushes of different verities.

So all sorts of different ways to grow plants.

The "cooking" process is nothing more than composting... ingredients/amendments as soon as they get together in a pile/container/raised bed the bacteria and fungi (and worms eventually) begin the process of decomposition or composting for short.

It's happening the whole time plants are in the soil growing and how the plants get their nutrition, and the process continues after plants are harvested or die off (annuals). That same micro-herd will break down the roots of dead/harvested plants and the cycle of life continues. Cooler or cold or even freezing temps don't stop the process. What happens to all the leaves in the winter time?? You get the idea.. same thing with the soil. bacteria are extremely versatile. They can live and thrive in the worst conditions imaginable, a little cold temps wont stop them.

Mix your own, buy pre-mixed amendments. Both work... I don't use any bottled soil amendments. A few bottles of IPM stuff is it for foiler for me. Outdoors not even that.

We of course do wild-crafting (collection of beneficial plants in the wild) for teas and tinctures and composting inputs... its fun for us. Gets us out side in the spring and looking around. We get to see nature doing its thing. We watch and hopefully learn..

We've already brought home a bucket of found worm castings from the woods....trail walking with a bucket and a scoop. All the forest ground cover is now in place and growing green and will soon become worm food once the trees get new leaves. Then its full on spring and time to collect more goodies! Finally.. it's been a long cold winter here in east coast USA. Yay.... today its mid 50s F or 13C ... and only snow flurries this morning. Lots of folks with cabin fever.... its rampant.
 
I try not to have these feelings or let them have purchase when they do arise, but gee I’m envious of you walking through the forest collecting forest castings and wild-crafting. :love:

I was very happy when I found out about the casuarina here being equisetum because it’s all through out forest and right close to the house. I’ve planted my own patch of nettle too, so I don’t have to go far for that now! I’m very fortunate to live here in the forest but sometimes it’s really sad not being able to walk through it! I enjoyed reading your description of that :)

Thanks for the tip about planting straight up w little or no cook... this is good.
:thumb:
 
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