Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

Ok - mostly this thread is for folks making their own organic soil mixes to discuss and learn from each other. You might be better served if you post your question in the section for solving issues - or the 'ask us anything' thread. I assume you're checking around on the net for some answers?

That said - one of these soil experts (not me) might pop up with an answer... you never know

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Woops i Did not get that, my bad. Ill check with another thread :) Thank you
 
Was reading over at Microbe Organics a couple months ago....not sure if any of you have read through that but it's full of great info, Bob pointed it out to me a while back....anyways something had been bugging me that I read and hadn't heard anywhere else;
I sometimes include a pinch or handful [depending on brewer size] of sphagnum peatmoss in a brew. Depending on where the peatmoss was harvested, it will contribute a set of microbes somewhat similar to that derived from the ‘Alaska’ humus or humisoil products on the market. It is a least a better bang for your buck and at best a trifle better quality-wise.

I let it go for a bit but it was driving me crazy lol....so I decided to email him in which he responded to me
I have written more on forums etc concerning the 'where' SPM is harvested. Generally from Northern Alberta is higher quality than Quebec, and other points further South

Tim Wilson

Hadn't really seen any talk about the "where" other than being Canadian, looked into it a bit and from what I could see only 3 companies are set up in Alberta....having a more difficult time finding out more than that....I know Premier Tech is one of them, but they also harvest their CSPM in 4 other Provinces and couldn't find how they distribute what and from where.

Anyways, figured it was a neat little piece if info to pass on.

Also, to my Canadian growers out there.....Bob just helped confirm something pretty exciting(to me at least anyways)!!!! If you're in need of some great quality compost for your soil check out Hop Compost | Home
This is some pretty amazing compost available in Canada now, it'll be cheaper to access in BC/AB since that's where they're set up right now, they will ship it country wide just makes it more expensive....they also have plans to expand to other major cities across Canada making access to it easier
I know how hard it can be to get thing's like Bu's or Oly Mnt. that you often read about on forums, so check these guys out as an alternative :Namaste:
 
Building a Better Soil - Demonstrations & Discussions of Organic Soil Recipes

Back to topic - I posted this in my grow journal the other day and thought this is a good place to post :

Here's a little info bomb on HorseTail Fern and what it brings to the table:

Horsetail Fern "Equisetum" - we use and cultivate E. arvense - it also has many uses for human health. This plant is over 100 million years old.

Horsetail Ferns contains Silica at 60,000 - 97,000 ppm

Here's a few other benefits from this plant material:

Silicic Acid - 80,000 ppm (rooting agent)
Phosphorus - 14,762 ppm
Calcium - 24,000
Magnesium - 4,730 PPM

NOTE: ratio of Calcium:Magnesium (a little higher than 5:1)

The biggest benefit = Carbohydrates - 737,000 ppm

Ever since I've been incorporating Horsetail Fern tea into my soil regime and IPM routine... NO PM/Mold and plants even clones of the same plants are much larger and yields have gone up since my plants are larger. Also pests and incidence of infestations of mites has gone down quite a bit as well. Still get mites from time to time but they never really get a very good grip and are mainly isolated to a few branches, then I wipe them out with Spinosad and neem.

Silica from Horsetail Ferns and Pro-Tekt are taken up by the plant and the plant actually builds a layer of Si in the plants protective layer (cuticle) that is the waxy layer on the leafs epidermis (skin).

Quoted from a study on the effects of Silicon and plants:

Link:
Probing the mechanisms of silicon-mediated pathogen resistance

"the enhanced resistance is associated with the higher deposit of silicon in leaf so as to form physical barrier to impede pathogen penetration and the activation of host defense response.

Since Si was found to control plant disease, physical barrier was traditionally used to explain its role in enhancing pathogen resistance. Si can accumulate and deposit beneath the cuticle to form a cuticle-Si double layer and thereby interfere with pathogen's penetration through mechanical barrier."

And there's more .... in that article linked above.

Hi all - this will be especially relevant to those living and growing in Australia, particularly coastal regions, and probably most other Pacific Islands... (like Bob I'm copying over from my journal .)

A note about Horsetail fern and Casuarina (Equisetum)

After a few helpful folk (thanks Teddy, Bob and Radogast) recommended Horsetail Fern to me, I discovered that it's a noxious weed here on this southern continent so I'm not growing it (of course) and it's been tricky to find. I am recently very delighted to learn that Australian native Casuarina is also known as Equisetum and is used across the continent by Biodynamic farmers and gardeners as an alternative/substitute to Horsetail. It is recommended to grape growers by Biodynamics Australia for the prevention of fungus and mildew etc. Even more brilliant here, is the fact that about 50% of our very small acreage, is Casuarina forest! :slide: How lucky am I? I mean, it's everywhere along the coast and even inland a bit so it wouldn't have been hard to find - but seeing as I'm not able to go out much (or at all this past 6 weeks), having it literally 10steps from my door feels a very blessed thing right now!

So last night I made a brew and this morning I foliar fed it to the Afghan x Critical Mass in the bush pod (which, incidentally, is planted amongst Casuarinas :thumb:)

This recipe I got from the Biodynaics Australia website... what follows is a version of that.

Grab enough fresh Casuarina needles to half fill the size of the saucepan you're going to brew it in - my pot is medium size so I used this much:

8026ACB1-C834-40EB-8A4B-340D59268644.jpeg


Let's call it a bunch (pic with 'hand' for size reference) ;)
8FFB3922-B3B7-468B-82FF-69872A9A2B96.jpeg


Cover it with water in the pot and bring to boil - it was kind of like making pasta! I tried to make it so that the water was twice the height of the needles when they were squished down flat.

715356D1-57CD-4CF8-A758-CCF3C5F3D3BB.jpeg


Once it's boiling, turn down the heat and simmer for 20minutes. Then turn it off and leave it to cool overnight.

33B0D35D-0BF3-4D9C-B032-74181BE71082.jpeg


It looks like a weak tea.
BBE46723-9CF1-4BE0-8EFF-B9407640B111.jpeg


Dilute at 1:10 (the BAA instruction say 10 litres per 100 litres - they're talking about much bigger gardens than mine).

The foliar spray BAA suggest for fungal prevention is a mix of this tea with their Biodynamic seaweed tea - so that's how I've mixed it and used it yesterday and this morning (on different plants). And re-reading Bob's post above I'm realising just using it as part of the soil feed when I water will work great too. Not to mention adding it to a soil mix at the start. We're also advised of the usefulness of adding the ground cover it leaves behind in the forest to our green compost.

I noticed when I travelled to Hawaii that the same she-oaks (another name for casuarina) grow there too so it seems sound to presume it's present on many islands of the pacific.

Thanks bob for the info and links above. I hope someone else benefits from their local casuarina forests too!!

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I need a mulch for my indoor containers but having a hard time deciding 'which is best'......biggest issue is keeping the top of my soil moist right now due to the low RH so I'm thinking a mulch layer would help out significantly....few options though; hemp mulch, variations of pine mulch(composted, shredded, bark nuggets), cedar mulch, cocoa shell, hemlock, maple plus any of your variety of straws or rice hulls etc...Thinking it's between pine or hemp but truthfully haven't read a whole lot on mulches :Namaste:
 
I need a mulch for my indoor containers but having a hard time deciding 'which is best'......biggest issue is keeping the top of my soil moist right now due to the low RH so I'm thinking a mulch layer would help out significantly....few options though; hemp mulch, variations of pine mulch(composted, shredded, bark nuggets), cedar mulch, cocoa shell, hemlock, maple plus any of your variety of straws or rice hulls etc...Thinking it's between pine or hemp but truthfully haven't read a whole lot on mulches :Namaste:

Good day God. Lol! That’s one I hadn’t greeted in this way before. Great username. :high-five:

Reading over the list, the one that made my heart skip a beat was the rice hulls. That’s be a great addition to the soil as it breaks down. The hemp mulch came in second.

Let’s see what the real experts think though, shall we?
 
Thank you lol:high-five:

Love rice hulls too, use them as aeration for bedding in my worm bin so they break down

I’ve seen lots of people use them, I just don’t know if they’d be optimal for what I need the most(water retention)

Hemp seems very interesting, I like that it’s ph neutral, and supposedly it fairs well as a mulch

:Namaste:
 
Finally found my way back to this thread again.

Hey Fert:
ME personally would keep looking on the composts.

The Peat Moss right there.. that's what I use and I can HIGH-ly recommend it. It's the exact same thing from the same company as ProMix without the mycos. For the extra $30 you just saved, you can purchase mycos separately from the same company btw (Premier - Mykes brand) and get enough mycos to last you a few years.

Be careful selecting composts... it can make or break the garden, specially in containers. For outdoor use that stuff is mediocre. I'd keep looking.

Not sure where you live but I will point you to a few tried and true bags of great compost.

BU Blend from Malibu Compost - I'm on east coast and can get this. They are a biodynamic certified dairy and I think they raise meat as well of course bio-dynamically. Which is SEVERAL steps above OMRI organic.

Coast of Main Lobster compost... what I use in my gardens. I've also used it in containers and in raised beds ... so another 1 tried and true.

Both of my suggestions I've tried and used... the same with the CSPM.

GOP mentioned CSPM and sources. Of course its Canadian, eh?
I believe there are only a few companies that have a permit from the ministry of Interior to harvest CSPM commercially.

I also believe Premier Tech is the largest. They sell close to where they get the source. So in Ontario they source the CSPM from Ontario.... I've seen them harvesting in action in Ontario. I can say that you would think this is an invasive practice... not so. I could hardly tell they were actually working and harvesting. Once they were finished I couldn't tell they were even there. They made a dirt road... didn't even use gravel, just cleared a path for trucks to go in and out.

Not sure what Tim Wilson (aka Microbeman) meant when he said one provincial source was "better" ... I'd have call that splitting hairs. I mean the water in Ontario is just as clean as the water in Alberta or BC or where ever in Canada. I'm not even sure what criteria he was using. I'm doubtful it's much if at all different or "better". I've seen where that peat moss comes from out of Ontario... it's all GREAT stuff. It's harvested in wilderness areas ... made by mother nature.

Maybe someday there will be ACSPM (Alberta Canadian Peat Moss) - best of the best. :yummy:
 
Finally found my way back to this thread again.

Hey Fert:
ME personally would keep looking on the composts.

The Peat Moss right there.. that's what I use and I can HIGH-ly recommend it. It's the exact same thing from the same company as ProMix without the mycos. For the extra $30 you just saved, you can purchase mycos separately from the same company btw (Premier - Mykes brand) and get enough mycos to last you a few years.

Be careful selecting composts... it can make or break the garden, specially in containers. For outdoor use that stuff is mediocre. I'd keep looking.

Not sure where you live but I will point you to a few tried and true bags of great compost.

BU Blend from Malibu Compost - I'm on east coast and can get this. They are a biodynamic certified dairy and I think they raise meat as well of course bio-dynamically. Which is SEVERAL steps above OMRI organic.

Coast of Main Lobster compost... what I use in my gardens. I've also used it in containers and in raised beds ... so another 1 tried and true.

Both of my suggestions I've tried and used... the same with the CSPM.

GOP mentioned CSPM and sources. Of course its Canadian, eh?
I believe there are only a few companies that have a permit from the ministry of Interior to harvest CSPM commercially.

I also believe Premier Tech is the largest. They sell close to where they get the source. So in Ontario they source the CSPM from Ontario.... I've seen them harvesting in action in Ontario. I can say that you would think this is an invasive practice... not so. I could hardly tell they were actually working and harvesting. Once they were finished I couldn't tell they were even there. They made a dirt road... didn't even use gravel, just cleared a path for trucks to go in and out.

Not sure what Tim Wilson (aka Microbeman) meant when he said one provincial source was "better" ... I'd have call that splitting hairs. I mean the water in Ontario is just as clean as the water in Alberta or BC or where ever in Canada. I'm not even sure what criteria he was using. I'm doubtful it's much if at all different or "better". I've seen where that peat moss comes from out of Ontario... it's all GREAT stuff. It's harvested in wilderness areas ... made by mother nature.

Maybe someday there will be ACSPM (Alberta Canadian Peat Moss) - best of the best. :yummy:

Yep I've got those on the list! I've just been trying to find something available locally to avoid the shipping costs, but it doesn't seem like I'm going to find anything. There's maybe one specialty nursery in town that might have some good stuff, but I think I might be better off just ordering some things online. I wanted to try some karanja along with the neem cake... Clackamas Coots is all crazy about that. Plus I've heard I need some gypsum along with oyster shell to really make things with the ca:mg ratio and pH buffering go well.

I've been doing okay'ish with just worm castings so far though. Been thinking about starting a vermicompost pile. But the thing is, it gets really hot and dry here pretty early on. I was told that they need a temperature range of about 35-85, but my area only stays in a range like that between April and June. Near the end of June it gets into the 90s and stays there until October. Sounds like I'd basically need to start it like right now.
 
I live in Philly... a vermicompost bin works great and summer temps are unbearable. 100F with 90% RH... brutal. I go to Canada to avoid... but worms are fine. In a pile they can keep cool enough. Go for it. Moisture is a problem if its dry - just need a cover on the bin and be sure to add in stuff that has moisture.. you can water the heap too! For composting we have a bin with a lid for vermicompost and also composting piles we put garden wastes in/on.

On the Coots mix.. You can use both Oyster shell flour and Gypsum (not from HD).
Yes on the Karanja - I mix it with Neem Cake 50:50 and add to soil.

Also if you have a "good" nursery go talk to the people about sourcing compost and ask them what they use? Chances are they have a big ass pile in the back that they use and sell to landscaper/gardeners. Don't have to mention where you're growing .. just say "Flower and veggie gardens".

My local nursery brings in those 2 composts in bags as well as the CSPM. We are on the east coast ... so I pay a little more per bag than say Home Depot but $2 a bag I can swing it no problem and cheaper than shipping it.. Azon carries this stuff I think... I bought the CSPM form Lowes for $9.95 a bale last time I bought it. The box stores do not carry proper composts IMHO... I always look.
 
I live in Philly... a vermicompost bin works great and summer temps are unbearable. 100F with 90% RH... brutal. I go to Canada to avoid... but worms are fine. In a pile they can keep cool enough. Go for it. Moisture is a problem if its dry - just need a cover on the bin and be sure to add in stuff that has moisture.. you can water the heap too! For composting we have a bin with a lid for vermicompost and also composting piles we put garden wastes in/on.

On the Coots mix.. You can use both Oyster shell flour and Gypsum (not from HD).
Yes on the Karanja - I mix it with Neem Cake 50:50 and add to soil.

Also if you have a "good" nursery go talk to the people about sourcing compost and ask them what they use? Chances are they have a big ass pile in the back that they use and sell to landscaper/gardeners. Don't have to mention where you're growing .. just say "Flower and veggie gardens".

My local nursery brings in those 2 composts in bags as well as the CSPM. We are on the east coast ... so I pay a little more per bag than say Home Depot but $2 a bag I can swing it no problem and cheaper than shipping it.. Azon carries this stuff I think... I bought the CSPM form Lowes for $9.95 a bale last time I bought it. The box stores do not carry proper composts IMHO... I always look.
Sweet, I'm probably gonna end up giving the vermicomposting a try then. Do you reckon I'd still need to get other compost or would the stuff from the vermicompost pile be adequate?

I'm not really sure if they're a "good nursery", but the only indication I have that they're a "specialty nursery" is that they were the only place in town I could find listed as a dealer for some G&B Organic soil blend. But, I don't really know how great that blend is, it was just recommended to me. The company is a subsidiary of Kellogg's. That's really the only indication I have that they may have some better stuff than HD would. Not really such strong evidence to have made me jump in the car and go check it out haha

Well dang they wanted $12 for that bag here. $18 for a 4 cu ft.

If I can get it on the river, then that might make shipping a little more bearable than what I've seen it on other sites, but the problem is they sell it in such low quantities. Usually like 8 quarts of something instead of a cu. ft.

Speaking of cubic feet... I'm thinking about trying to make AS MUCH soil as I can so that I don't run out in the middle of transplanting, and can properly cycle between grows. I am thinking I will start running 3 gallon pots, because the 5 gallon pots are just hard on me. But I will have 10 pots going at a time, with a veg and flower tent so that I have girls veg'ing ready to go and such. Been trying to get it cycling like this for a while, but just keep having hitches.

Anyway right now I have about 4 cu ft. of some pretty mixed up stuff... Amazon Bloom ( fresh ), Happy Frog ( used 1 cycle ) and my first mix of soil I made ( 30/30/30 peat/ewc/perlite + neem, azomite and DTE "bio-live" ). Then in the pots I'm currently running I have about 5 cu. ft. of the second mix I made (the original but cut 4x with perlite and EWC, this was the mix I had analyzed).

So I'm thinking that once I harvest my 10 pots I have going now, I can take the 4 cu. ft of the mixed up stuff for my next run, and just reamend the 5 cu ft. that I have going now and let that get ready, and just keep doing that back and forth between the 4-5 cu. ft. volumes.

So given that, I think if I just made a 8 cu. ft batch of Coot's mix, I'd probably be in a better place. I mean, trying to do my own thing just seems like it's lead to too much trial and error, and all I was trying to do was get as close to that mix as I could with locally sourced ingredients. So I think sometime down the road I'm just gonna bite the bullet and get enough material together to just make a bit batch of CC mix, and then take the 8-9 cu. ft. I have right now and vermicompost with it. Between 16 cu. ft. of CC mix and vermicompost, I doubt I'd ever have a "whoops I ran out of good soil" mistake again.
 
Fert said:
So I'm thinking that once I harvest my 10 pots I have going now, I can take the 4 cu. ft of the mixed up stuff for my next run, and just reamend the 5 cu ft. that I have going now and let that get ready, and just keep doing that back and forth between the 4-5 cu. ft. volumes.

Very similar to what I do. If you wanna just run #3 pots thats what I run AUTOs in start to finish. Can get a very nice yield. Small footprint so not expensive electric, can get a GREAT lamp and grow 20 AUTOs in a 3x5 footprint. I've done a # of primo Dark Devil that way more than once. Just need more seed! Worth it .. and you can run that on a table so no bending over.

With your soil.. amend it with a cup of Rock dust flour grind (fine) a cup or 2 /cubic foot (7.5gal) and throw in a cup of Malted Barley ground fine ... maybe a cup/cu.ft. of some Calcium/gypsum and kelp meal.. don't forget the kelp meal.

All the old soil I never throw it away.. it gets back into rotation. I don't like hauling soil around. There's some science to re-using old soil. Turns out the plants don't uptake all that much volume from the soil. They get most everything from the water and the minerals that the bacteria/fungi feed the plant with.
The rock dust provides a lot of Cation Exchange the fire for the mineral uptake... the amendments provide the soluble minerals/vitamins after the micro-herd have at it.

The soil, ITS ALIVE... don't tell the chemical companies.

Yeah doing your own vermicompost bin will get you the best soil you can ever imagine. Alternate layers of green with layers of brown and you can have the best compost you will ever wish for in about 6 weeks. We use bins... you can make your own - just need a top to keep the rain from washing all the goodies away.
 
good afternoon @everyone, and @SweetSue...........lol, this is the 1st journal I started reading last year April I believe...... doing a bit of homework on "soil" and everything it encompasses and loving it..." did I say loving it....lol " but only joined up in jan2018 I believe and from your journal I've consumed as much as I could while being introduced silently to each and everyone I met along the way....

but the amazing thing that binds me to all of you irrespective of style/ inside outside 95% of the people I follow " it's all about the soil...

as mentioned I'm shy, so haven't quite introduced myself to most, but have said hi/asked a question.

Haven't started on your "growant/hempy adventures yet as I'm spoilt with choice in my selection of journals, lotta nuggets of priceless info, but lotta pages to get through.......lol

Never thought I'd have too much to read.....haven't seen my girls in a while but I can show you my favourite .......


who would of thought from miscellaneous seed......:green_heart::Namaste:
 
good afternoon @everyone, and @SweetSue...........lol, this is the 1st journal I started reading last year April I believe...... doing a bit of homework on "soil" and everything it encompasses and loving it..." did I say loving it....lol " but only joined up in jan2018 I believe and from your journal I've consumed as much as I could while being introduced silently to each and everyone I met along the way....

but the amazing thing that binds me to all of you irrespective of style/ inside outside 95% of the people I follow " it's all about the soil...

as mentioned I'm shy, so haven't quite introduced myself to most, but have said hi/asked a question.

Haven't started on your "growant/hempy adventures yet as I'm spoilt with choice in my selection of journals, lotta nuggets of priceless info, but lotta pages to get through.......lol

Never thought I'd have too much to read.....haven't seen my girls in a while but I can show you my favourite .......


who would of thought from miscellaneous seed......:green_heart::Namaste:

Oooo..... what lovely potential Smeegol. You have no idea on the genetic line?

This thread is a rich resource and will always have a special place in my life. I may have chosen an inert medium for my garden but I understand the compromises I make by eliminating living soil from the mix.

You’re in good hands here. These guys are passionate about the micro community.
 
Welcome to one of the best threads on this site Smeegol. Some great soil growers around here so just speak up and I am sure one of them will chime in!

We are going to miss you among our ranks Sue!
 
Welcome to one of the best threads on this site Smeegol. Some great soil growers around here so just speak up and I am sure one of them will chime in!

We are going to miss you among our ranks Sue!

" you see @ms.SweetSue, there be another 1 of them inspirational people @Van Stank ....:eek: "
 
Meh he's okay... van the man, van the man!

Hey so I've been waiting for this thread to pop up....

So @Blew Hiller hooked me up with some worms and I started a vermi-compost. My plan is to create a self-sustainable medium recycler.

Van was helping me understand some stuff in blew journal about building a soil.

Initially my plan was to try the hi brix "kit" and I probably still will but I'm kinda a do it myself person who really wants to understand the science behind it all.

Anyways, the thing I hear most is how soil is harder than most people expect. I feel like I'm just really learning coco after starting with coco hempy, but I really like to try everything and feel like it helps me learn more.

I guess my concern is... i.... don't Ph now. I know don't judge me. But is that something I'll need to do regardless of whether I choose a water only soil or an organic type nutrient
 
Thats really a good description of me as well...someone that likes to do it himself. I have been asked a few times by some folks that use Docs kit as to why I don't just use the kit, "it will be easier".

For me its not the destination, it's the journey. I love to tinker with the soil and learn more and more about it and how everything works. Having been a gardener for years prior to starting to grow Cannabis was a huge help. Now learning how to grow good cannabis is making me a much better gardener in the other areas! Ain't dirt cool!
 
@SweetSue, sadly her genetics are a mystery. It was some random flower that didn't smoke well ( not even a 15min high ) so I made edibles from everything I had purchased and it was a leg less experience as those shortbread biscuits floored me almost an entire day.....lol but lady-luck was watching and possibly gifted me with some seeds in her current state but I'm unable to confirm this with my own eyes yet.....:yahoo:
 
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