Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

An AACT is not a feeding. It is simply a way of multiplying microbial numbers quickly, to be added to the soil or leaves. Increasing the frequency does nothing in the soil if you water correctly.

Chasing deficiencies or pH is not something we should be worrying about. If you add the minerals at the ratios in the Clackamas Coots mix, you will be within the Albrecht ratios.

Build a better soil and throw the cal-mag away.
 
36Gr0w said:
An AACT is not a feeding. It is simply a way of multiplying microbial numbers quickly, to be added to the soil or leaves. Increasing the frequency does nothing in the soil if you water correctly.

Chasing deficiencies or pH is not something we should be worrying about. If you add the minerals at the ratios in the Clackamas Coots mix, you will be within the Albrecht ratios.

Build a better soil and throw the cal-mag away.
Click to expand...

I agree with you....but I thought I had built a pretty good soil. I will post my notes when I can upload them...and the recipe that I used was recommended and tweaked by several well respected growers before I did it....
 
Yankeetoker,

Looking at which leaves are yellowing, they all a pear to be older leaves that are below a side branch. These are the same ones that are the first to yellow in flower. It looks to me like they are being reabsorbed, end of life type of thing. Unless newer leaves start changing I would not be that concerned.

I am not saying there was not a problem, just that you may not have a problem now.

Or, I could be wrong.
canyon
 
Hello all you knowledgeable and helpful people,

I've just finished reading the thread, and I'd like to thank you all for so much great information.
I'd also like to see if I can pick some brains, get some opinions

I've got a 4 1/2 x 4 1/2 grow tent, and a 430w hps. I'll be going no-till, and was thinking of trying to SWICK, as well.
Can anyone recommend what size (gallons) fabric pots I should use in that environment, please? And how many?

Thanks muchly

Have fun,

handy afteral
 
I believe 15gallon+ for no till. And number depends on how big you're growing them, but 5 in that space gives you about a 2'x2' space for each. But since only 400w of hps lighting, you probably only want to use about a 3'x3' space. Probably 4 pots exactly in that space.

Speaking of of Swick, I found some pond liner plastic fairly cheap($40 for 5'x10'), perfect for a 4x8 swick frame(and cheaper than the hydro stores $99 4'x4' trays). My painters plastic one kept leaking. This stuff is thick.

IMAG18141.jpg
 
I run my no-tills in 7 and 10 gallon, and dream of 15 gallon, but space considerations prevent that. Atulip hit it on the nail.
 
Thanks Atulip, and SweetSue; much appreciated.

One more question, if I may...

I'll likely be going with the 15gallon fabric pots. How many weeks would you recommend vegging the plants for, considering they'll be in a 4 1/2 x 4 1/2 tent? I like sativas, and won't be doing autos, so I imagine I'll have to allow for some stretch, once I flip the lights. Is two weeks enough veg time for an established clone/seedling? Or should I go longer, to ensure the roots have time to really fill the bags?

Thanks some more,
handy
 
How long to veg depends on a lot of factors, so I can only answer for my environment (light, heat, nutrition, soil health, genetics, spider mites)

2 weeks veg = 0.3-0.5 oz per plant - knee high
1 month veg = 0.7 - 1.0 oz - waist high
2 months veg = 2 - 3 oz - shoulder high
3 months veg = 2.5 - 10.5 oz per plant - looking up at buds

Since flower takes 2 months, 1 extra month in veg adds a lot of bud. Almost every other grower seems to veg faster than I do :)
 
I thought the veg time seemed a little long but then I went back and looked at my photoperiod grows. 6-8weeks from seed to flip gave me 1.5-3oz a plant. 5 weeks from seed to flip in a SoG gave me 3 foot tall .5-1.5oz plants.

Never paid attention to the total grow times before. I spent 14+ weeks for 2 oz plants before, that seems so long now lol.
 
Thanks, all. As Tony the Tiger would have said (and maybe still would, I'm not sure if he's still up and about); yerrrrrr great.
I knew my veg-period question was dependent on plenty of variables, but appreciate the input. I've never grown in anything bigger than a 5gallon pot, nor in a no-till soil. Super-soil, yes, but never no-till.
I love the smell and texture of this mixed soil. Gotta admit, I left out the neem, as I really dislike the smell, and have read some troubling things about it, online. It's also gotta be shipped around the world, and I guess I'd prefer to believe it's not indispensable. I know some swear by it... But I put more faith in the notion of "healthy plant, resistant plant", so hope I can do without.
I'm still a couple months away from getting my indoor project going (moving in July), but I'm doing an outdoor run, with a buddy, in the meantime. No-till soil in 15-18 gallon holes, guerilla style. I'll keep yez posted...

Have fun,
handy
 
handy afteral said:
Thanks, all. As Tony the Tiger would have said (and maybe still would, I'm not sure if he's still up and about); yerrrrrr great.
I knew my veg-period question was dependent on plenty of variables, but appreciate the input. I've never grown in anything bigger than a 5gallon pot, nor in a no-till soil. Super-soil, yes, but never no-till.
I love the smell and texture of this mixed soil. Gotta admit, I left out the neem, as I really dislike the smell, and have read some troubling things about it, online. It's also gotta be shipped around the world, and I guess I'd prefer to believe it's not indispensable. I know some swear by it... But I put more faith in the notion of "healthy plant, resistant plant", so hope I can do without.
I'm still a couple months away from getting my indoor project going (moving in July), but I'm doing an outdoor run, with a buddy, in the meantime. No-till soil in 15-18 gallon holes, guerilla style. I'll keep yez posted...

Have fun,
handy
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You can buy a 50-50 neem - karanja meal mix from buildasoil.com for less than $20...FYI
 
Thanks for the tip, yankeetoker.

I live in Canada, though, so shipping actually costs more than the product itself. I can't justify spending more on shipping, than on the product. In Canada, there's a company called Reindeer's Naturals, that carries neem. That's where I've gotten it in the past.
As I mentioned, though, I've read conflicting things about neem, and prefer to err on the side of caution. There's way too much "it only effects unwanted fungus/bacteria/pests, and doesn't bother beneficials, at all", and that doesn't pass the sniff test, for me. Everything has pros and cons. I especially don't believe in neem as a foliar spray. But that's just me. And I'm far from a master botanist.

Wheeeee,
handy
 
handy afteral said:
Thanks for the tip, yankeetoker.

I live in Canada, though, so shipping actually costs more than the product itself. I can't justify spending more on shipping, than on the product. In Canada, there's a company called Reindeer's Naturals, that carries neem. That's where I've gotten it in the past.
As I mentioned, though, I've read conflicting things about neem, and prefer to err on the side of caution. There's way too much "it only effects unwanted fungus/bacteria/pests, and doesn't bother beneficials, at all", and that doesn't pass the sniff test, for me. Everything has pros and cons. I especially don't believe in neem as a foliar spray. But that's just me. And I'm far from a master botanist.

Wheeeee,
handy
Click to expand...

Neem as a foliar spray controls spider mites and encourages trichomes. I have been spraying 1% neem solution in water once every 3 days for about 6 harvests to control spider mites. My harvests are the frostiest ever, and I don't believe my soil is improving since I'm water and worm castings only for about a year.


My 1% neem recipe: 1 part neem oil, 99 parts water, Dr Brauner's liquid soap as a surfactant (to mix well for spraying.)
Spray 10 minutes or less from lights out time.
 
Radogast said:
Neem as a foliar spray controls spider mites and encourages trichomes. I have been spraying 1% neem solution in water once every 3 days for about 6 harvests to control spider mites. My harvests are the frostiest ever, and I don't believe my soil is improving since I'm water and worm castings only for about a year.


My 1% neem recipe: 1 part neem oil, 99 parts water, Dr Brauner's liquid soap as a surfactant (to mix well for spraying.)
Spray 10 minutes or less from lights out time.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that Rad. I didn't realize neem oil would have that effect. It's probably stimulating the same response my torturous essential oil sprays are doing.
 
I love neem meal/cake. In a covered sip like an earthbox or diy, Ive see what appears to be fungus devouring it as a top dressing. I also use it in my soil mix and for waterings and foliar sprays with aloe, kelp and/or alfalfa. What's left after straining goes in the compost or worm bins. No problems for me.
 
I live in Canada, though, so shipping actually costs more than the product itself. I can't justify spending more on shipping, than on the product. In Canada, there's a company called Reindeer's Naturals, that carries neem. That's where I've gotten it in the past.
Click to expand...


Thanks a lot for this info! Just looking at their site now. I never stumbled across them before- they don't seem to have much presence on google...
 
Here in my corner of Canada I continue to flail away at this organic soil thing, intermittently and half-assedly, admittedly. Finding the Reindeer Naturals site looks promising. They make a soil called Brown Gold and I've emailed them to see if they are able to send it by mail (it doesn't appear on their mail- order products list). Could be expensive... They do have a fair number of supplements so if I can get the Brown Gold maybe I can mix something up.

I took another stab at going through Build a Soil and looking at the kit that Sue used at the beginning of this thread. It would be heavenly to order up the Clackamass Coot amendment kit and have something to run with. Really what I want is just to put something together now for a soil trial run without having to get a degree in botany or soil chemistry, or spend months and piles of my non-existent money searching and scratching around for products, which I may it may not be able to find. I do have rock dust now though. :thumb:
Anyway, Build a soil (still) appears to be problematic, since shipping rates are three times the product cost. That's a hard pill to swallow, though I am somewhat tempted to just pay the $135 shipping for the $55 Coot kit and be done with it.
I looked into getting 3 of the Coot kits- hoping for a better shipping rate ratio, but no joy. Over $400 (US dollars) for shipping- then there will be tax, probably duty fees, and possibly long delays on top of that. Not a very organic option.

I've also been looking at the recipe that Robert Celt used in his first journal, which I will re-post below. RC says that he got the ingredients from Home Hardware. So far I haven't been able to find one of the ingredients, which is Black Gold soil. I do have a Home Hardware here though it is very small. Supposedly they will order in any product that's available through their chain, but the staff here couldn't find Black Gold on their website, and neither could I.
If I can't find that particular soil ( Black Gold ) then I think there must be a substitute. Seems pretty simple.

I'm not sure why I keep vaguely wandering around thinking about organic soil but not quite getting there. Besides the fact that my life is upside down right now and I'm stupidly busy, cause that's normal.
Any ideas?
Someone kick me... Or something.

Oh, I see- the standard model kick in the ass isn't available in this part of Canada?
What if I order the hobnails separately, and I will source the leather for the boots when I have time?
Oh...
No hobnails, only roofing nails, no leather, only vinyl, and shipping is the 'special super extra remote rate'?
What about stiletto heels? No?
How about a simple smack?

Yes?!!??
Give me one I want it now!

Oh.
Do you take money orders?
Bitcoin atm? Uhhh yeah, I'll check.

Etc...


I do realize that this is dumb, and that there is soil in my garden and backyard. Just not sure how to go about turning it into a top notch soil for cannabis.


Robert Celt said:
Here is the recipe I am currently working with and mixing up out in my garage:

1 bale (3.8 cuft) of Pro-mix BX...no added fertilizers and becomes approximately 7.5 cuft after broken up

5 cuft (5x 28L bags) Black Earth...nothing added

7.5 lbs natural tree fertilizer 4-4-8 granulated + 2% iron
•May use on all trees and shrubs, deciduous and evergreen
•Organic nitrogen in slow release form
•Will not burn bark or roots even in hot weather
•Does not require watering after application
•Safe to children, pets, and the environment
•Can be applied in all seasons
GUARANTEED MINIMUM ANALYSIS:
•Total Nitrogen (N) 4.0%
•0.4% Water Soluble Nitrogen
•3.6% Water Insoluble Nitrogen
•Available Phosphoric Acid (P2O5) 4.0%
•Total Phosphoric Acid (P2O5) 4.1%
•Soluble Potash (K2O) 8.0%
•Calcium (Ca) 4.0%
•Magnesium (Mg) 1.0%
•Sulphur (S) 4.0%
•Iron (Fe) 2.0%
•Organic Matter 30.0%
•Derived from: feather meal, sulfate of potash, dolomitic limestone, gypsum, ferrous carbonate, bone meal and/or rock phosphate

5lbs Bone and Blood Meal 7-5-0
•Can be used on all bulbs, flowers, vegetables, trees and shrubs
•Granular, easy to use
•Slow release nitrogen and phosphorus
•Will not burn
GUARANTEED MINIMUM ANALYSIS:
•Total Nitrogen (N) 7.0%
•0.5% Water Soluble Nitrogen
•6.5% Water Insoluble Nitrogen
•Available Phosphoric Acid (P2O5) 5.0%
•Total Phosphoric Acid (P2O5) 5.1%
•Calcium (Ca) 13.0%
•Organic Matter 50.0%
•Derived from: bone meal, and blood meal
•6.5% slow release nitrogen from bone meal and blood meal

55lbs (25kg) alfalfa meal/pellets >typically has a 2-1-2 and a 1-4 month release

Kelp meal IF I can get some, for micro nutrients

And water > to be determined still working it (will mix it with SuperThrive for the micro nutrients)

Then let it "cook" for a number of weeks just like composting.
Also, if able, throw in worms to break down organic matter and make it available to the plants easier.
Click to expand...
 
Ahoy weaselcracker!

I laughed - on the bus - reading your o-so-familiar description of the pains of trying to order stuff, living in Canada. I live in Quebec, which brings the added complexity of trying to source ingredients online, in French. Sorry to say, I'm kinda glad to hear I'm not the only one finding it challenging to grow organically in Canada. I was worried it was just me.

Have you checked out the Easy Bake at that reindeer site? Much easier than shipping the brown gold. It's missing a couple components for a complete no-till mix, mainly the rock dusts. But those can be added, I'm thinking.

I'm sounding like a shill, but promise I've got no connection to them. Just happy if the hundreds of hours I've spent googling can help someone. I haven't tried the Easy Bake yet, but have three bags of it, and will give it a whirl in a couple months, after I move. So I can't vouch for it, beyond saying; it's the best (only) thing I've found.

There's another company - in Victoria - called Gaia green, but it's the dickens finding their stuff in stores. The dickens, I tells ya.

Have fun,
handy
 
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