Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

I knew that Bustan name sounded familiar. It's a site I've turned up before - but the website links don't work for me and so, even though it looked very promising, I couldn't view any of their products. I wasn't sure if the problem was on my end or whether it was even a legit site, but lost patience trying. Glad to hear that it works for you. I'll try it from a different computer when I get a chance. :thumb:
 
yankeetoker said:
PeeJay it seems that the DTE Vegan Mix is "comparable" to yumyum based on how it's performing in my soil so far.
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Indeed! Your plants look great, Yankee. A premixed core amendment is a good way to go for many folks who want to get away from bottled nutes and go organic. If you bought all the stuff in the DTE Vegan separately the initial investment would be large and you'd have boxes and bags of stuff all over.

I love Yum Yum. It's very easy to get here. Palate loads of it at the nursery this week. I've found out that a 25# bag shipped to most places in the states is ~ $65.

20160519_150258.jpg
 
PeeJay said:
Indeed! Your plants look great, Yankee. A premixed core amendment is a good way to go for many folks who want to get away from bottled nutes and go organic. If you bought all the stuff in the DTE Vegan separately the initial investment would be large and you'd have boxes and bags of stuff all over.

I love Yum Yum. It's very easy to get here. Palate loads of it at the nursery this week. I've found out that a 25# bag shipped to most places in the states is ~ $65.

20160519_150258.jpg
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Thanks again, for helping me out! Much appreciated. ...now you just have to get me through this defol in a couple of weeks...wink wink

The yum yum is easy to get like the lobster compost is here, but that yum yum is LOADED! I like the Vegan mix though, gonna roll with it unless I find something locally that's comparable.
 
This belongs here too.

SweetSue said:
Very challenging news guys. Heirloom just informed us that he was hit by a logging truck about five weeks ago and has lost limbs. I'm including a link to his thread so you can read his report yourself, but we need to garner all the positive energy we can and shower him with it. He lived. He's a force of nature himself and in the end I know this magnificent man will not just survive but thrive like you've never seen.

Let's let him know his family reaches round the globe and we'll all be holding him in our thoughts as he recovers.

Thank up you in advance for helping to shore up my dear friend.

Heirloom's Little Bit Of Everything
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Hi all,

First off...that's absolutely horrific news about Heirloom. Sending positive energy his way, for sure.... Logging trucks are dangerous monsters on those logging roads...

I feel like a jerk diving back into soil conversations...but...here goes...

I've finally found (cheap!) sources for all my ingredients, and will soon be ready to start mixing. I am, however, still confused about using the oyster shell to replace the dolomitic lime. I've laid out my recipe - and the process I'll follow to mix it all — below, and would be most appreciative if people would be so kind as to take a look, and give me their input (particularly with regards to using oyster shell as the liming agent).

As far as I can tell, the best thing to do (thanks RobertCelt) to both properly wet the peat, and set the right Cal:Mag ratio, is to mix the peat with the oyster shell, then add a water/aloe mix, then mix everything else. Is that right? if so, do I add oyster shell at 1 cup / 7.5 gallons, as I would with lime, or is the ratio different?

Also, I intend to use the SWICK system so beautifully explained by SweetSue, in another post. If I'm going that direction, I should definitely use perlite rather than lava rocks, right? If I'm growing in fabric pots, is 1/3 the right ratio of perlite for the SWICK?

Recipe

4 x 15gallon fabric pots
4 x 3gallon fabric pots
18gallons extra
= 90gallons

Base

30gallons peat
30gallons aeration (lava rock or perlite)
30gallons compost (homemade worm compost, marine compost, horse/chicken compost)

Rock dust

35cups granite
8cups gypsum
5cups basalt

Amendments

10cups kelp meal
4cups neem
4cups alfalfa
5cups crab meal
7cups oyster shell

Enzymes

12cups fresh-ground malted barley grain

Process

Mix peat + oyster shell + water with aloe
Add perlite - mix
Add compost - mix
Add rock dust - mix
Add amendments (other than oyster shell) — mix
Add fresh-ground malted barley - mix
Water with aloe

Let cook 2-4 weeks


Thanks again, everyone. I can't get enough reading about dirt, or playing in it! it's driving my friends crazy.

handy
 
I add everything at once, then water with aloe, mix, and repeat until I'm happy. I don't "cook" my soil either, I mix and put seeds/clones/transplants in right away. With 4 cups alfalfa I would wait a few days and make sure yours doesn't heat up. If it does, wait a few more days and check again; if it doesn't, plant away!

Your mix looks great, if I would change anything I would use equal amounts crab meal and oyster shell powder, and use half of the malted barley for top dressings and teas.

You should get great results with your mix.
 
You can use either lava rock or perlite in your SWICK reservoirs. Perlite is much lighter, but it's also sloppier to work with. It's a matter of personal preference. As far as additional aeration as recommended in the early pages of the SWICK thread, I've found that our basic soil mixes using 1/3 peat, 1/3 compost/EWC and 1/3 aeration work quite well without additional aeration added. I added additional aeration my first batch and haven't repeated that since. My SWICKs are working smoothly.
 
Hi Handy,

Please don't feel like a jerk. I'm back here because it's the closest thing to regular/normal I have right now. Soil conversations are the norm, and I appreciate it.

You'll want more Mg. I would add epsom salt. By weight, not volume, add 3/4 part epsom to 1 part oyster. 1lb oyster (about 2 cups) and 3/4lb Epsom (about 1.3 cups) for instance. Then add that at 1 - 1 1/2 cups per cubic foot of soil. This mix gives you close to a 5:1 Ca:Mg ratio. If it were a bagged product it would read something like 20.5 Ca - 4.2 Mg - 5.5 Sulfur, depending on oyster and epsom values.

You can go with 36's recommendation on more crab, though I've backed off and only use it in small quantities (relatively) for the chitin. I also have shrimp meal, same purpose. I get plenty N and P from other sources, as well as Ca.

Welcome to 420 mag!
 
Awesome information! Thanks! If I knew how, I'd give you all rep points, or the equivalent thereof...

36Gr0w,

I appreciate your suggestion of matching the crab/oyster quantities, but doubt I'll be able to do that, as crustacean meal has proven quite difficult to source here. What I have found, is expensive, so I'm probably stuck at the 5 cups. I'll add more if I can get some.
I do intend to top-feed barley every 2 weeks once plants are in the soil; should I reduce the quantity I add when I mix up the batch of soil? or should I forego adding any at all to the initial mix, and only top-feed it?

SweetSue,

I read through the entire SWICK thread a couple weeks ago, but my note-taking wasn't up to snuff yet, so was asking mainly from memory. Thanks for the patience and information. I couldn't remember if it was established that more aeration was better in the SWICK, or not necessary. I've not commented much, but I've read quite a few of your threads. You provide really great information, and your personality draws helpful, knowledgeable, people from far and wide, so your threads are awesome.

Heirloom,

I don't even know how to express what I'd like to say, as we've never met...suffice to say, you've got one indomitable spirit, man. the world could use more of that.
The measurements I listed in my earlier post were calculated with the "2-2.5 cups of amendments per cubic foot (7.5 gallons)" rule-of-thumb in mind. if I add Epsom salts, as you so helpfully described, should I add less of the other amendments to remain within the 2 — 2.5 cups/cubic gallon? Or should I not be concerned about that? or am i even misunderstanding that rule-of-thumb?

Thanks some more,
handy
 
Handy,
The cups per cubic foot rule is a loose one and more intended to keep people out of trouble I think. It may have come from ClackmasCoots original teachings and recipe, IDK. The reason why it's a loose guide is fertilizer density. A cup of shrimp meal at 6-6-0 provides way less N than a cup of neem meal at 6-1-2. Why? Because the shrimp meal is very light and airy compared to the neem. Shrimp meal is 10 cups per pound, where neem is about 2 cups per pound. Pound for pound they provide the same N value, but not cup for cup.

Another thing to remember is that there is no perfect fertilizer recipe or application rate. It's strain dependent and will require you to find what works, then make adjustments over several grows. Some are N sensitive and go dark green really easy. Others eat it up. Same for any of the nutrients. The more strains you grow and get to know, the more you'll see the differences. And the better you'll become at 'reading' them and growing them.

Don't apply the same recipe to different strains and expect the same results. And don't jump into too many strains all at once. Do find a base recipe that works, then tweak it for each strain. Keep notes in a folder for each strain, what they like, don't like, when to apply certain products, foliars, top dressings etc.

Better to apply on the lighter side, as you can always supplement. Unlike hydro growing, you can't change out the nutrients and solve the problem in a day or four. You are stuck with what you've added.

As for the Mg addition, it's a minor adjustment overall and you don't need to reduce anything else.

And thank you very much for the kind words.

:Namaste:
 
The great thing about this is, we all use what is personally available and learn through trials and errors. I'm trying to use more crustacean meal in place of oyster shell powder lately, and never mix Epsom salt in my soil, I only (rarely) use it when I feel some mg is needed. I also try to stay around 7:1 cal:mag. I use the same base soil for everything but always tweek it a bit.

See how Heirloom and I differ, but both grow great plants? Get the best ewc/compost you possibly can, and the rest is easy.
 
Handy, I had a thought about the SWICKs. I mix my base up 1/3 peat, compost/EWC, aeration, but it occurred to me yesterday that I've never moistened my peat moss before measuring, which means I have more aeration in my mix than my notes suggest. It occurs to me that this is a significant point.

A relatively new grower, and I typically wing it and luck out, much like this very circumstance. Not everyone is blessed with a guardian angel willing to work as hard as mine. :laughtwo:

This is why I try to set up threads that draw all these brilliant minds. Thank you guys for being such dedicated gardeners and community partners. I open these threads. You all fill it with the valuable knowledge others can benefit from. You have my undying gratitude.
 
36Gr0w said:
The great thing about this is, we all use what is personally available and learn through trials and errors. I'm trying to use more crustacean meal in place of oyster shell powder lately, and never mix Epsom salt in my soil, I only (rarely) use it when I feel some mg is needed. I also try to stay around 7:1 cal:mag. I use the same base soil for everything but always tweek it a bit.

See how Heirloom and I differ, but both grow great plants? Get the best ewc/compost you possibly can, and the rest is easy.
Click to expand...

1/2 lb epsom and 1lb oyster shell minus a couple pinches will get you 7:1.

Your own custom ratio lime replacement, with sulfur.

:thumb:
 
As long as we're on the subject of lime, etc.-- I just got soil test results for my garden soil (the dirt in the ground, that is), and I could use some help understanding how it got like this and where to go from here. These are the results:

soil_test_2016.jpg


It looks like I'm low or very low on everything but calcium, magnesium, and copper, all of which are through the roof. And my pH is pretty low.

Here are the results of testing from two years ago, which also included CEC data:

soil_test_2014.jpg


Any thoughts on how my calcium can be so high but my pH so low? How do I raise my pH without adding more calcium? Or is it OK to add more calcium, since at least some of it will go into the CEC bank?

Caveat: The testing from two years ago was by a different company, the soil was sampled at different times of year, and I can't promise that my sampling protocol was consistent.
 
OK, I'm confused. I've always been under the impression that peat moss lowers pH--that peat moss is the main reason we have to lime our soil.
 
Thank you Timmo, that was a dumb mistake, I meant to lower the pH, and nothing I said in my last post is helpful or true. Backwards thinking by me and too quick to post. I apologize for confusion.

I did add peat moss in a bed this year, but that was for blueberries.
 
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