Bassman's 6th - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Kush

Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Danner said:
Hey Bassman, question for you on the defoliation: When you remove all the foliage from the plant do they lose any ability to process nutes? I guess my question is geared more towards soil so not sure if you have experience with that, but if a plant that hasn't been plucked of leaves is being fed a certain amount of nutes, would that same plant possibly suffer nute burn if it was fed that same dose after it's been defoiled?
Danner
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I'm in hydro, so I am not sure if it would translate to soil. In my situation, heavy defoliation did NOT lead to any signs of nute burn. Just a huge increase in secondary growth (and teritary, quatranary, etc). For this grow, I was probably more thorough with my defol than in the past, and these are the densest bushes I've ever seen.

The biggest argument against defoliation is the idea that we're reducing the plants ability to photosynthesize (let's call this the plant's photosynthetic potential, or PP). I disagree. Imagine you're looking down at your plant from your lights' perspective. You will see a certain amount of green surface area. This is the plants primary photosynthetic area. The leaves below this plane will get some light that passes through the leaves, but it's an order of magnitude less, so let's ignore that for now. This green plane's surface area you see represents the plants PP.

Now let's imagine that same view after defoliation. All the big leaves are gone, but has the amount of green changed? If you're defoliating correctly, it should not have changed much. You will still see a green plane, it will just be comprised of different and smaller leaves. Yes, the PP will decrease slightly, but not enough to significantly impact the plants ability to use nutrients. If anything, it will require more to build up the remaining leaves.

This is the theory I use when I think about defoliation. :Namaste:
Your mileage may vary, not a guarantee of results, offer not valid where prohibited, some assembly required, batteries not included
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Since I don't grow in soil, and every plant of any type I've ever had in soil died on me I can't say anything about soil with any authority whatsoever.

That being said, in hydro, I still feed at the same amounts. But I do notice that there is less uptake for the next couple of days. In flower, this may only be 2-3 days of less uptake and it isn't too significant. Basically I seem to see that the next day I will add water, but no nutes. Then the day after it'll be down 50ppm or something and I'll add some nutrient with the water.

After you've completed a few grows using this method you'll see what your strains like and it will become second nature.
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Bassman59 said:
That being said, in hydro, I still feed at the same amounts. But I do notice that there is less uptake for the next couple of days. In flower, this may only be 2-3 days of less uptake and it isn't too significant. Basically I seem to see that the next day I will add water, but no nutes. Then the day after it'll be down 50ppm or something and I'll add some nutrient with the water.
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So, to me, this sounds like you should go easy on nutes for at least a few days if your growing in soil.
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Just do it in between nuet and water. That's what I did and no issues with the babys. This was my first recoil also. Was quite neverousbut they filled out nicely after 3 days. More light to more places= more buds.
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Thanks everyone for the quick responses! Well after a long deliberation about whether to take the plunge into defoliation or not on my 2nd grow I decided to go for it. After everything I've read about it I just couldn't take looking at the huge canopy of light sucking leaves anymore lol! Anyway, I ended up stripping them on day 23 of flower which was Tuesday and things are looking fantastic! They need fed and thus my question, so I think I'll reduce the nutes by about half and see how they react. Thanks again.
Danner
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Danner said:
Thanks everyone for the quick responses! Well after a long deliberation about whether to take the plunge into defoliation or not on my 2nd grow I decided to go for it. After everything I've read about it I just couldn't take looking at the huge canopy of light sucking leaves anymore lol! Anyway, I ended up stripping them on day 23 of flower which was Tuesday and things are looking fantastic! They need fed and thus my question, so I think I'll reduce the nutes by about half and see how they react. Thanks again.
Danner
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It's possible to add more nutes later. It's much harder to take them back out. :)
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Hiker said:
It's possible to add more nutes later. It's much harder to take them back out. :)
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You poor soil guys. Makes me proud to be hydro!
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Bassman59 said:
You poor soil guys. Makes me proud to be hydro!
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I'm hydro. Do you have a method to remove the nutes after you have added them? You can dilute, but if the plant is burned... ;)
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Yes, it's a super secret trick I learned ...Squeegee the leaves. Wipes them clean. Ask your hydro store for the proper Squeegee.:thumb:

Actually that's what I do. I pull 1-2 gals out and add back straight ro water. But that's rarely needed for me anymore. I start off any fresh res with 100% bpn schedule and if it's a bit hot, I just add ro over the next few days. Now I have mine pretty dialed in at about 990 ppm or basically 2.0 e.c.
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Without doubt hydro is easier to control than soil, if you have the proper equipment that is.
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

northener said:
Without doubt hydro is easier to control than soil, if you have the proper equipment that is.
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About the only advantage that soil has over hydro, that I can think of, is you can put a shorter plant up on blocks to make the canopy top the same height as the rest of the taller plants.

Edit: Minus potentially less expense and simplicity.
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

You get both with coco.:rocker:
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

high 420kwats said:
You get both with coco.:rocker:
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na man, that's just another way for me to kill plants!

It's kinda funny weird though. Literally every plant I've ever had in soil I killed. Going all the way back to the 70's and pot plants started from bag seed in the back yard to awesome looking indoor ferns and what not from the local nursery. Hell, I almost killed my first hydro mmj grow!

Some people it appears approach hydro as being much more complicated. But for me I've found it super simple and very forgiving.
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

ok, now it's time for me to bitch and rant. Everybody can use a good whine once in a while right?

As some of you may recall from my previous journals, I grew Kosher Kush a while back. Had great results, and it's an awesome strain. Numerous cup wins and places too. Well, last month I blew a bit over $100 to get 6 more beans. I still had 2 leftover from before, and this would give me two, four seed plantings to find a good mother plant.

The seeds arrived nice and secure. The tood delivered timely. So I dropped the 2 from last purchase and 2 from this recent purchase to germinate. The 2 from the first purchase popped quickly, and are now showing 1st set of true leaves. But not the recent ones. I have since dropped all of this recent purchase to try to germinate 2 more and not a damn one has germinated. Pisses me off. I used my normal 24-36 hr soak in water then drop into paper towel method. I've not had any issue doing this before.

Yesterday I emailed the tood, nicely, with my displeasure. The response was: "Hi There

I am sorry to hear you are unhappy. I will contact the breeder regarding this on your behalf regarding this"

So I have no clue what they may or may not do for me. But I do know, I'm now 10 days behind at least on popping seeds for next grow and they won't be same strain. I'll have 2 x Kosher Kush and 2x something else. Again, I hate doing different strains in same grow, and this grow is a perfect example with the Master Kush being so much shorter than the Martian Kush.

I also hate blowing $120 on beans I get nothin out of.

So now the question is what beans do I drop to grow with the Kosher Kush, OR, do I wait and take clones from the 2 Master Kush clones I have in 2L hempys? I know both the Master Kush and Kosher Kush have similar grow characteristics, height etc. But I won't be able to take a decent clone for at least another week I think.

The seeds I have that I could drop are:

OG #18 (1)
LA Confidential (1)
Sour Kush (1) (formerly known as headband) this cross made by reversing OG Kush with Sour Diesel
LA Woman (1)

That's about it for indica dom seeds that I trust at all.

Edit: I need to drop 2 more seeds total or two clones

pisses me off a bit.

Any suggestions or ideas?
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Not a damn clue... I guess I would run the sour and OG as they seem to have similar characteristics from what I could gather from the breeders page. I have not grown these yet but do have the beans as well. I am not happy with the 2 GDP I am currently running and feel confident that they are not GDP. I will not know until I flower them in about 4-5 weeks. I get my beans from the tood as well.
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

I'm tempted to try to wait and take 2 clones from Master Kush I have in 2L Hempys and maybe they end kinda close together in size. Timing is an issue.

I'm also tempted to order Holy Grail Kush which is Kosher Kush x OG #18. But even though I may do that they'd be 2 weeks to arrival.

I would like to have 4 mothers eventually. Master Kush will be one, Kosher Kush another. And I need to stick with indica mostly. So I'm still looking for two more strains to mother. OG #18 and Holy Grail are certainly possibilities but it then seems like I have basically 3 strains of near same lineage.

I wish I knew if the tood was going to actually do anything to make good on these. That's one thing I love about Nirvana. Awesome customer service!
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Do the clones Bass. Clones usually outpace seedlings, so they might catch up and time just right with the others. This assumes you are sure they will grow well together.

I know that's what you think you should do, and I completely agree. If you already have something that stays short like you want, then take a couple clones.

I'm surprised at their response. Did you get the guaranteed shipping? Maybe they can't warranty germination because of legal issues? That's a bummer for sure. I'm getting real low on $$ building from scratch, so $120 would hurt right now. I ordered from them too, and my seeds all popped. I've heard good things about their customer service. Maybe you should send a polite reply and explain that you weren't sure if they were going to be getting back to you or if they considered the matter closed.

If you like that Master Kush, why aren't you making that a mother? Are you just hoping for something better, or searching for variety?

I'm afraid to pop anymore seeds. I'm going to have a hard time letting any strain die out! I've pretty much resigned myself to cultivating a mother (and at least one father) of each strain. I just may not grow any of them very often. :)
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Good morning Hiker and thanks for the thoughts.

Good news is 2 of the Kosher Kush popped a tap root, giving me the desired 4 total! Pretty weird it took that long. I put them into root riot cubes a few mins ago.

I'm going to take a wait and see approach on the customer service. I just noticed they have a disclaimer of sorts suggesting if you send email on germinating they may close your account. They are after all collectibles and not meant for planting! ..ok.

I will be making a mother of the Master Kush eventually. At issue is whats allowed for numbers here. It's really small and I'm already breaking it but still keeping that to a minimum. I need to get a recommendation for more than state minimum for food stuffs but Doc appts are expensive too.

I now have no more Kosher Kush seeds, so I'll have to plan out some clones from these and hopefully find a mother.

I am seriously considering ordering Holy Grail Kush. It's a OG#18 & Kosher Kush cross. I've not grown OG#18, but have seen journals here and some reviews, and tend to think this could be another great strain. If I found that to be as good as it sounds I would like to have a mother there too. This would give me three strains in rotation. With harvests of 3-4 plants per month, cycling each strain, I see it as being optimal for me. Two tents in flower at all times and a veg closet and 3 moms closet.

Busy day today, but hopefully later I can do an update. Things are looking good on this grow for the most part.
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

Hey Bass , As the saying goes " It seems that you are on Horns of a Dilemma" I did see an interesting video on one of the seed sites, it may not apply but he was saying that if you have older seeds they get tough on the outside so he took a piece of sandpaper and rolled it into a tube (sand side in) put a seed inside and shook it only for about 5 seconds to scuff it up just a little. I have never tried it but I will on some old bag seeds I have. Like I said it may not help your situation now but it is something else to put in your Data bank. 1 more vote for clones (you know what you have with them) :goodluck:
 
Re: Bassman's 6th - Blue Planet Nutrients - RDWC - Hi-Defoliation Martian & Master Ku

i also think the clones are the way to go. I think growing clones where all plants are from the same mother and with all being the same phenotype would have its advantages? RPK sounds great too, jon705 seems to have great results with that strain
 
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