Aspen's Alaskan Purple In Soil - 2022

[AspenCultivator]

They grow great with a wet/dry cycle, but they don't need it. I grow in SIPS which keeps the soil constantly moist, in coco grows you're not supposed to ever let the coir dry out, and then there's hydro.

I'd think those emitters would work great with canna. Still need a reservoir though, so wouldn't work for you.

Lots of ways to get it done, that's for sure.

I should have clarified that in soil, without sip, a wet/dry cycle is the most ideal environment...at least in my few months of researching soil. My first grow was in hydro (and I'm thinking I prefer it so far to soil, but it's early yet) so a wet/dry cycle isn't the end-all-be-all of growing methods.

But when it comes to soil and just soil, from what I have gathered, you can't keep a soil medium moist like you would for vegetables if you want maximum growth and yield. The sips seem to have roots that convert over to hydro roots, and even prune themselves in your air gap. It's really cool to see. But without those things you can see where keeping the soil moist gives a lot of issues to new growers who are used to growing house plants or vegetables and try to maintain a moist soil.

The emitters certainly would work and they'd probably help grow great bud. But what I'm after in this grow and this journal is the best bud I can produce from a single plant. Which means really looking at the science of the wet/dry cycle and understanding it for this plant so I can reach that goal. But that's just what I do: research different things and go with what works. I definitely want to give a sip bucket a shot in a future grow!

 

[AspenCultivator]

Day 10

Hey everybody! I know I updated yesterday, but as I mentioned in yesterday's update they did indeed need water this morning so water is what they got.

Total water per cup was 80ml this time (phed to 6.4), whereas last time (6 days ago) it was 60ml. So they were definitely ready. And just like last time I watered 10ml at a time using a syringe and then waiting around 5 minutes or so before applying another 10ml. It took around 40 minutes to have them watered to the tiniest bit of runoff, just a few drops from the bottom of the cups.

Alaskan Purple #1 and #2 Day 10

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

Alaskan Purple #2 Day 10

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

#2 is getting funkified for sure. Her second node looks crazy to my eyeballs but I wasn't able to get a good zoomed in pic, so we'll see how she develops.

Alaskan Purple #1 Day 10

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

And of course #1 is looking great. Node distance is looking really good, coloring is looking good, the stem is thickening ever-so-slightly, so we're definitely on track with this one.

 

[AspenCultivator]

Day 10

Well I got bored tonight so I decided to break out the good camera and get a battery charged to see if I can take some glamour shots. Not too bad. I won't use this camera all the time, but if/when something is particularly interesting I'll break it out.

Alaskan Purple #2 Day 10 Zoomed

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

Alaskan Purple #1 Day 10

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

Alaskan Purple #2 Day 10

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

Alaskan Purple #2 Day 10

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

Alaskan Purple #1 Day 10 Zoomed

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

Alaskan Purple #2 Day 10

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

Alaskan Purple #1 Day 10 Zoomed

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 6, 2022

These pics are much more true-to-life in color and show they're not as pale-yellow as a phone camera makes them out to be. However, take a look at the cotyledons. They're starting to yellow on the edges, even more so on #2 (the funky one). I'm wondering...since this is 2+ year old seed, could the nutrients the cotys provide be lower than fresh seed? I've read about the first hit of nutrients with a seedling (in soil) and found generally people will wait 2-3 weeks, when she has a few nodes and then hit at 1/4 or 1/2 dose manufacturer chart. Since my cotys are fading much faster than fresh seeds, should I plan on feeding next watering? I'm expecting the cups to be dry within the next 5 days, or less.

Thanks for any help on this one

 

[lootznbootz]

I'm wondering what your ph. is in the runoff of your soil?
It doesn't seem to be anything wrong with what you're doing. But something does seem to be slowing them a bit..
Also, what is your light intensity and height?
I have had mine up to max and at about 22" above the plants or so for about the past week.

I really can't see much that could have caused a problem so far.
I don't know if id blame this on genetics just yet.

You are adjusting your ph. when you water? So, we know what we're putting in?
Is there a way we could see what is coming out?
I haven't used PH solution in a while the last time I PHd. my water I was using Nectar of the gods and used their ph. up for their line.

I use RO water that's about 6.8 - 7.0 and admittedly I do not PH my water ever.
Roots Organics nutes drop the PH crazy low and now I'm aerating to raise it but outside of following their recommendations for the obvious reasons of it. I don't bother with it too much.

Maybe your PH adjuster is throwing off the biology of your soil?
I'm not the best at diagnosing maybe someone else can chime in with more accurate ideas.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Using seedling pots I usually start feeding them when they have their second set of true leaves. 1/4 strength for the first few couple of feedings, and going up from there.
The nutes I'm using right now have a half strength seedling dose on the schedule for the first week.
I usually don't pay much attention to the cotyledons.

 

[AspenCultivator]

I'm wondering what your ph. is in the runoff of your soil?
It doesn't seem to be anything wrong with what you're doing. But something does seem to be slowing them a bit..
Also, what is your light intensity and height?
I have had mine up to max and at about 22" above the plants or so for about the past week.

I really can't see much that could have caused a problem so far.
I don't know if id blame this on genetics just yet.

You are adjusting your ph. when you water? So, we know what we're putting in?
Is there a way we could see what is coming out?
I haven't used PH solution in a while the last time I PHd. my water I was using Nectar of the gods and used their ph. up for their line.

I use RO water that's about 6.8 - 7.0 and admittedly I do not PH my water ever.
Roots Organics nutes drop the PH crazy low and now I'm aerating to raise it but outside of following their recommendations for the obvious reasons of it. I don't bother with it too much.

Maybe your PH adjuster is throwing off the biology of your soil?
I'm not the best at diagnosing maybe someone else can chime in with more accurate ideas.

Thanks Lootz

I haven't tested the runoff, but I can do that on next watering. However, I'm convinced next watering is going to be due some nutes at a low strength, so I'm not sure how that'll change the reading if you're thinking I should test runoff without nutes. PH is adjusted to 6.4 using 2 drops of PH down in a mason jar. PPM is at 122 out of the tap (private well company, kinda weird I know) and PH without adjustment is 8.5. With the PH down PPM rises to 135 or so. The meter is a brand new HM PH-80 and was calibrated to their 7.0 solution after I opened the box, however, it didn't need it as the factory calibration was fine. But I did check this.

And as a reminder this is FFHF with 20% by volume rinsed perlite. The plan on up-pot is a 3 gallon final with 2/3 FFOF (mixed 20% perlite) and top 1/3 FFHF (also mixed 20% perlite), with myco mixed in both layers.

The light is weak, but good enough for one plant in this space for sure, all the way to flower (it's the 3000k model). It's at 33" above and outputting 209 PPFD right now. Either today or tomorrow I was going to lower the light to 30", or more, but from all I've read having a PAR of 100-300 is good for seedlings so where it is now should be fine.

Using seedling pots I usually start feeding them when they have their second set of true leaves. 1/4 strength for the first few couple of feedings, and going up from there.
The nutes I'm using right now have a half strength seedling dose on the schedule for the first week.
I usually don't pay much attention to the cotyledons.

Thanks for the words Mel, it's helpful! I believe my second set on #1 will be in full swing when she needs water again (looking at 4 days now, maybe 5) so I'm definitely going to plan on feeding 1/4 dose of FF Dirty Dozen. It looks like it's the same strength as week 1 veg, so I'll cut the dose and increase with future feedings until we're at full strength in the next few weeks.

As for the cotyledons, I'm gauging my feed need by them but also just the size of the plant compared to other people's seedlings. If genetics aren't in play yet, it makes logical sense that with my seeds being so old, some of the endosperm in the seed casing would be ineffective by now and unavailable for the plant to use as nutrients. But I could also be wildly off with that assessment.

 

[lootznbootz]

Thanks Lootz

I haven't tested the runoff, but I can do that on next watering. However, I'm convinced next watering is going to be due some nutes at a low strength, so I'm not sure how that'll change the reading if you're thinking I should test runoff without nutes. PH is adjusted to 6.4 using 2 drops of PH down in a mason jar. PPM is at 122 out of the tap (private well company, kinda weird I know) and PH without adjustment is 8.5. With the PH down PPM rises to 135 or so. The meter is a brand new HM PH-80 and was calibrated to their 7.0 solution after I opened the box, however, it didn't need it as the factory calibration was fine. But I did check this.

And as a reminder this is FFHF with 20% by volume rinsed perlite. The plan on up-pot is a 3 gallon final with 2/3 FFOF (mixed 20% perlite) and top 1/3 FFHF (also mixed 20% perlite), with myco mixed in both layers.

The light is weak, but good enough for one plant in this space for sure, all the way to flower (it's the 3000k model). It's at 33" above and outputting 209 PPFD right now. Either today or tomorrow I was going to lower the light to 30", or more, but from all I've read having a PAR of 100-300 is good for seedlings so where it is now should be fine.

If I remember correctly from my previous grows, I've used that soil.
I'm going to go through my journals hopefully it was documented but I remember that soil to be either pretty good soil to start with or a little hot starting out on the little ones at first.
I say that to say you should have enough food in those cups for a little bit. This is my personal preference but I tend to wait to feed maybe even longer than I should arguably.
I always water when I should but I'm stingy with the food.

So, if this was me at my next watering, I would water with Non adjusted water no nutes like normal and test the runoff.
This will be huge because it gives you an idea of where your root zone is at now with less variables involved.
Then you'll have a better idea of what you need to give at the next watering which will only be another 3-5 days anyway.
If you have any concerns at this step this will help to give you as much information as possible before we add more variables.

do you know what your nute solution ph is naturally without adjusting it after you mix it up? maybe it falls in line after mixing it? with no adjustments needed.

Do those Ph adjusters get used by the plants? or do they sit in the soil and cause lockouts? this bit sounds so familiar like a locked away secret I forgot long ago!
I personally say to check that ph of the soil first. they may look like they need nutrients but that could be because were actually locked out...
Let me go digging now!

 

[AspenCultivator]

I'm going to go through my journals hopefully it was documented but I remember that soil to be either pretty good soil to start with or a little hot starting out on the little ones at first.

I really appreciate you taking a look. From what I've read, Happy Frog is fine for seedlings for 3-4 weeks. It's Ocean Forest that's pretty hot, possibly too hot for young plants. Which is why a lot of people will layer OF in the bottom 2/3rd of their pot and have HF in the top 1/3rd which is what I'm going to do.

I personally say to check that ph of the soil first. they may look like they need nutrients but that could be because were actually locked out..

They're definitely growing, so you may be right that testing the runoff is the best choice. As they get bigger there'll be less time between waterings so you're right, if they need nutes they'd get them 3-5 days later anyway. So I'll just plain PH the water like the last two waterings and water for enough runoff to test. I generally stop at a few drops, but I'll water more to get enough to test.

Let me go digging now!

I really do appreciate your time in looking this stuff up and helping me out. Thank you.

do you know what your nute solution ph is naturally without adjusting it after you mix it up? maybe it falls in line after mixing it? with no adjustments needed.

No, I haven't mixed up any nutes yet, so I'm not sure. I'll keep this question in mind for when I do mix them and let you know!

 

[AspenCultivator]

Oops I forgot one:

Do those Ph adjusters get used by the plants? or do they sit in the soil and cause lockouts? this bit sounds so familiar like a locked away secret I forgot long ago!

This does kind of sound familiar, so I'll do some reading on this, thanks. This nute line has a flushing bottle called Sledgehammer that's used, so maybe that helps flush the salt buildup? I'll post the schedule below.

Also, the schedule that came in the box with the nutes states: When using coco-based media, flush every two weeks during the flowering cycle as coco has a tendency to retain unwated salt residue more than peat-based systems.

Even their recommendation on their nute schedule includes a flush every 3 weeks for soil anyway.

I'll note: I'm not using the Wholly Mackerel or the Kelp Me Kelp You. It didn't come with the Dirty Dozen I got, and neither did the Cal-Mag. But I do have a bottle of it from another manufacturer in case I need it.

 

[AspenCultivator]

Day 12

We definitely have growth from the last two days so everything looks to be on track.

Alaskan Purple #1 and #2 Day 12

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 8, 2022

Alaskan Purple #2 Day 12

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 8, 2022

Alaskan Purple #1 Day 12

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 8, 2022

 

[AspenCultivator]

Day 14

Hey everyone! Today is day 4 since they were last watered and they needed it. I have the test results from the runoff of each and they do tell a story...But first, here are the pics:

Alaskan Purple #1 Day 14

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 10, 2022

Alaskan Purple #2 Day 14

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 10, 2022

Alaskan Purple #1 and #2 Day 14

• AspenCultivator
• Dec 10, 2022

As you can see the growth is still steady, albeit slow. Perhaps they're working on their roots? Let's hope so.

Alright so the watering was the exact same as previous. 10mL syringe in a circle around the cup for each and then waiting 2-3 minutes before applying more. In total they took 80mL each, just as last time, before drips started. Then I just kept going 10mL at a time until I had enough to test for each cup. PPM is measured on the 0.5/500 scale.

Before PH Down was added: 8.2, with PPM at 126
After PH Down: 6.5, PPM at 134

Runoff results:
#1: PH 6.4 with PPM at 608
#2 PH 6.2 with PPM at 701

The media in both cups were mixed in a bigger bucket and received the same amount of mycorrhizae, so all variables are the same. Can anyone draw conclusions from those numbers? I'll need to read up on testing runoff.

Thanks for coming in!

 

[Azimuth]

As you can see the growth is still steady, albeit slow. Perhaps they're working on their roots? Let's hope so.

What are your temps? And are you feeding them? They look hungry.

 

[Papa OG]

What are your temps? And are you feeding them? They look hungry.

The look starved. I never feed a sprout until after 7 days above ground. Maybe pest issue?

 

[Azimuth]

The look starved. I never feed a sprout until after 7 days above ground. Maybe pest issue?

He says they're at day 14, so I'm thinking a nute issue.

 

[AspenCultivator]

What are your temps? And are you feeding them? They look hungry.

Temp during day is 79/80F, during night is 70F. I wondered a few days ago if they were hungry, especially because it's older seed and perhaps doesn't have enough nutrients like a fresh seed would. I believe they both need feed on next watering, which is hopefully only 3-4 days. I didn't feed this time because I was advised to measure the runoff first to see if there were any lockouts happening.

The look starved. I never feed a sprout until after 7 days above ground. Maybe pest issue?

No pests as far as I can tell. I spotted a gnat or two a few days ago but haven't seen anything since.

What do the runoff PPM numbers mean to everyone? The Fox Farms Happy Frog is clearly providing some nutrients as I'm only putting in 134 ppm at watering (only PH down and water) and got 600 and 700 out. I haven't fed anything to them other than water and PH down.

Thanks for the help everyone

 

[AspenCultivator]

That brings me to my next question: how would you feed them? I can wait the 4-5 days it's going to take (or possibly 3, maybe) for them to dry out and water/feed them then. Or I can just wait a day or two when they've dried out half way or something and feed them then.

 

[7Dust2]

Oops I forgot one:



This does kind of sound familiar, so I'll do some reading on this, thanks. This nute line has a flushing bottle called Sledgehammer that's used, so maybe that helps flush the salt buildup? I'll post the schedule below.

Also, the schedule that came in the box with the nutes states: When using coco-based media, flush every two weeks during the flowering cycle as coco has a tendency to retain unwated salt residue more than peat-based systems.

Even their recommendation on their nute schedule includes a flush every 3 weeks for soil anyway.

I'll note: I'm not using the Wholly Mackerel or the Kelp Me Kelp You. It didn't come with the Dirty Dozen I got, and neither did the Cal-Mag. But I do have a bottle of it from another manufacturer in case I need it.

U will need it. Add it twice during grow add 5 ml to water . Middle or beginning. Add more at end when leaves start to die. . Trust.me. u used that stuff for years and still to this day I still add cal mag just as I wrote. Sorry for chime in like that. #1 problem I see is calmag issues. . And then I seen cal lock too cause use to much. Chems with calmag. That's no no also

 

[7Dust2]

That brings me to my next question: how would you feed them? I can wait the 4-5 days it's going to take (or possibly 3, maybe) for them to dry out and water/feed them then. Or I can just wait a day or two when they've dried out half way or something and feed them then.

I water mine ever time I see leaves drop or going to drop

 

[7Dust2]

Temp during day is 79/80F, during night is 70F. I wondered a few days ago if they were hungry, especially because it's older seed and perhaps doesn't have enough nutrients like a fresh seed would. I believe they both need feed on next watering, which is hopefully only 3-4 days. I didn't feed this time because I was advised to measure the runoff first to see if there were any lockouts happening.



No pests as far as I can tell. I spotted a gnat or two a few days ago but haven't seen anything since.

What do the runoff PPM numbers mean to everyone? The Fox Farms Happy Frog is clearly providing some nutrients as I'm only putting in 134 ppm at watering (only PH down and water) and got 600 and 700 out. I haven't fed anything to them other than water and PH down.

Thanks for the help everyone

If u need anything on Fox farm I have used it since day one and all it's chems before for years even was a wholesalers for the dirt and chems for few years . Be glad to help u. I still use FF now.

 

[Azimuth]

What do the runoff PPM numbers mean to everyone?

I'm not sure what the runoff numbers are supposed to tell you in a soil grow. I always thought that was for a hydro grow and the output ppms vs input ppms tell you what the plant is using.

The Fox Farms Happy Frog is clearly providing some nutrients as I'm only putting in 134 ppm at watering (only PH down and water) and got 600 and 700 out. I haven't fed anything to them other than water and PH down.

You should be feeding according to the nute line's feed schedule. If you're only feeding water that could explain why your plants look hungry.