Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Strains

[BpoBrad]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

You can only flip a photo lady, so you changed your light schedule. I have to ask why? You lost up to 50% of the possible growth, no? My research indicates an autoflower flips when it's ready, not a thing you can do to change that other than purposefully setting them back like I did to poor Britney. She was ahead of Rev by a good 5 to 7 days, and is now behind by the same amount but still stretching.

To all, please correct anything I got wrong here.



Yikes! Hoping for something close to that out of our next grow. 5 gallon fabric pots for the autos, solo cups for the photos for now. Jaybiz picked up some massive (to us) airpots today, now we're debating if the two photos will end in them or not.

Our current girls have moved around one position clockwise initially, and later front/back every single day, watering or not. I'm sure I'll get tired of that eventually.

Thanks all. Happy New Years Eve morning.

I keep my gal's in 5 gallon fabric pots, the old rule of thumb my dad taught me is that you can get a foot for each gallon, what size air pots or they? I've been thinking about using one next grow.
I'll be doing Auto's for my first time ever in 3 gallon fabric pots and starting at 18/6 I don't know if I'll flip or let them ride??

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

I actually have a few autos coming in with my gorilla seeds. I will probably pop them in 18/6 and keep them there. Fabric pots are great because you can just transplant the whole pot into the next size up and the roots go right through!

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Well the guys at my local grow store have been growing auto for ever here in OR. If you let them go rootbound they will flower like ruduralis the wild plant that auto flowers.

Plants in the wild will rarely be root bound, which is caused by growing in containers. In Nature there are no containers, just competition for light and water, and of course predation. Ruderalis automatically flowers because it evolved in colder climates in central Russia, where if it waited until the light was 12/12 it would freeze to death before producing and dropping it's seeds.

If it only flowered when root bound, it would have gone extinct ages ago and wouldn't be around for us to cross breed with.

I hate to say it, but the guys at your local grow store increasingly seem to be an unreliable source of information on autoflowering Cannabis plants, and I'm guessing a likely source of your spider mite infection as well.

If you start 12/12 cycle on any cannibas plant it will flower. Look how they crossed plants to auto flower it should explain how it works and why. I just harvested 2 autos and I saw them preflower in my #3 pots when rootbound. Moved them into #10 and back to veg till I flipped thrm.

That is not strictly true. A Cannabis plant will not flower until it is mature enough to do so, regardless of light cycle. A 2 day old sprout can not flower regardless of whether it's a photo or an autoflower.

An autoflower can not be flipped, it will flower when it is ready to regardless of light cycle. Autoflowers that don't flower by themselves haven't retained the proper Ruderalis genes to cause it to automatically flower. Therefore, although it may have been advertised and sold as an autoflower, it is in fact a photo period Cannabis plant.

If that were the case my autos would never bloom as they do not get root bound in my hydro buckets until 10 or 11 weeks.

Great example, one that had completely slipped my mind.

Ok, well my Auto's bloomed when rootbound, and veg'ed when not. They also flowered when switched to 12/12, just like my grow team said. Now these were clone's not seeds.

If you were given or sold a clone and told that it's an autoflower, you need to change vendors, friends or grow teams. Autoflowers are from seed only. Occam's razor says you were given or sold a photo period plant, that is the only logical explanation for your experience.

Sorry to be so blunt.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

I keep my gal's in 5 gallon fabric pots, the old rule of thumb my dad taught me is that you can get a foot for each gallon, what size air pots or they? I've been thinking about using one next grow.
I'll be doing Auto's for my first time ever in 3 gallon fabric pots and starting at 18/6 I don't know if I'll flip or let them ride??

I've read both a foot for each gallon, and a month for each gallon. So a three gallon pot will grow a three foot plant or whatever size plant for about three months. I'm guessing both are based on similar ratios and work as a good ballpark estimate.

I believe they are 4.6 gallon air pots. the current ones are 1.5 gallon. Both are taller than our 5 gallon standard round plastic nursery pots, and if my research is correct tall is better than wide for Cannabis.

I think we've resigned ourselves to letting the veg tent go 24/0, flower tent at 12/12 of course (once the current autos are out of there) and just leave it at that. It's hard to argue with Jorge Cervantes from my position.

I actually have a few autos coming in with my gorilla seeds. I will probably pop them in 18/6 and keep them there. Fabric pots are great because you can just transplant the whole pot into the next size up and the roots go right through!

Our current girls are running at 18/6, but it's only because we couldn't decide or at least make a different decision. I'm guessing we'll be shooting for 24/0 on autos in the future. Electricity costs are very low here, so there's no concern with saving costs at all. May as well push them as far as we can.

I'm already seeing medium dust on the outside of the fabric bags we bought ("rootpouch", I though they were smartpot brand but was wrong). I'm imagining they'll be quite messy compared to even the air pots, no? Mess is a secondary concern for us of course; if it helps the girls, we'll do it.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

The advantage of the fabric pot will be if you do a small container for veg and larger for flower. I prefer his and will do it even for my autos. A small pot in early veg leads to more wet/dry cycles so to me that means more root development from roots seeking wet soil during the wet/dry cycles.
Then I will transplant to whatever final pot. In my case that will be 10 gallon fabrics. I like the 10 gallon size for flower. This cycle has been much easier because of it. The wet dry cycle is longer so more time in the sweet spot. In veg we want changing cycles. In flower we want as much time in a constant environment as possible.
So besides making more roots in veg, the other advantage to the small fabric pots would be ease of transplant. Just leave the plants in the 1 gallon pots and transplant to final container, give a week or so in veg and flip. My decision on fabric finals is purely economics over the air pots. I think both would be great!

 

[BpoBrad]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

I've heard the same thing as well, both are good ballparks. That's all I really need while growing a god ballpark to work in, its always gonna be different... Do you raise every child the same way? Just a lil high thought from me today
But I do believe that tall is better for pots, and I agree with you brother it is hard to argue with Jorge Cervantes.

 

[TheNarrator]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Ok, well my Auto's bloomed when rootbound, and veg'ed when not. They also flowered when switched to 12/12, just like my grow team said. Now these were clone's not seeds.

800w HPS 1st grow. Millertm's - Girl Scout/Cinex - Grow Journal - 4'x4'x6.8' Tent - 2015

Have to add my voice to the others here, I'm growing my first auto and made the mistake of planting it straight into a 12L pot, I'm pretty sure I'd still be waiting for it to flower if it needed to be root bound but thankfully its nearly done

 

[glimmergrass]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Hey, all

Two observations:

1. I think we're increasing confusion with the term "flipping".

Traditionally "the flip" is when a grower triggers flowering in a photoperiod plant by changing the light schedule to 12 on/12 off.

It's not just a change of light schedule, flipping is the act of triggering flowering and only applies to photo period plants.

I suspect some folks in this thread are using flipping to mean just the change of light schedule.

2. If an auto is an auto it's going to change from vegging to flowering on its own schedule, regardless of pot size, lights or anything else. I used 5 gallon smart pots for my first grow of autos -- they were nowhere NEAR full of roots and they went into flower at about 4 weeks. Same with the autos I'm growing now -- lots of room, and they've gone into flower around 4 weeks. With my first grow I did reduce my light schedule after they had started flowering, just to save money on electricity. I wouldn't call that a flip, though, because the light schedule wasn't changed to make them flower: I just changed the schedule to 16 on/8 off to save money

I have heard of "auto" plants not going into flower automatically -- in those cases the grower has used a few days of 12/12 lighting to trigger the plant into flowering.

The only justification I can find for the idea that autos flower when root bound is a couple of passing references in old threads or older sites (earlier than 2012 or so) to a few strains of autoflowering cannabis that flower when root bound. In each case it's noted as a rare thing, but acknowledged. Perhaps this was something that used to happen in the early days of autos and doesn't much anymore?

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

I've heard the same thing as well, both are good ballparks. That's all I really need while growing a god ballpark to work in, its always gonna be different... Do you raise every child the same way? Just a lil high thought from me today
But I do believe that tall is better for pots, and I agree with you brother it is hard to argue with Jorge Cervantes.

I think children is a great analogy, particularly when from the same parents. Same pool of genes, wildly different results every single time.

Have to add my voice to the others here, I'm growing my first auto and made the mistake of planting it straight into a 12L pot, I'm pretty sure I'd still be waiting for it to flower if it needed to be root bound but thankfully its nearly done

Thanks TheNarrator, your voice is always welcome.

Hey, all

Two observations:

1. I think we're increasing confusion with the term "flipping".

Traditionally "the flip" is when a grower triggers flowering in a photoperiod plant by changing the light schedule to 12 on/12 off.

It's not just a change of light schedule, flipping is the act of triggering flowering and only applies to photo period plants.

I suspect some folks in this thread are using flipping to mean just the change of light schedule.

2. If an auto is an auto it's going to change from vegging to flowering on its own schedule, regardless of pot size, lights or anything else. I used 5 gallon smart pots for my first grow of autos -- they were nowhere NEAR full of roots and they went into flower at about 4 weeks. Same with the autos I'm growing now -- lots of room, and they've gone into flower around 4 weeks. With my first grow I did reduce my light schedule after they had started flowering, just to save money on electricity. I wouldn't call that a flip, though, because the light schedule wasn't changed to make them flower: I just changed the schedule to 16 on/8 off to save money

I have heard of "auto" plants not going into flower automatically -- in those cases the grower has used a few days of 12/12 lighting to trigger the plant into flowering.

Thanks Glimmergrass, I actually just first heard of this today from Pest889 here, where he also says Crop King Seeds told him autoflowers are somewhat problematic indoors and automatically flower more reliably when grown outdoors. That isn't going to happen for us at least, anytime soon.

So, we can accept that there is evidence than some autoflowers may require a few days of 12/12 to go into flower. Is there any consensus on whether they can be put back to 12+/12- (18/6, 20/4, etc.) afterwards? How about flipping back? Cloning?

Sorry if I'm being a nuisance.

The only justification I can find for the idea that autos flower when root bound is a couple of passing references in old threads or older sites (earlier than 2012 or so) to a few strains of autoflowering cannabis that flower when root bound. In each case it's noted as a rare thing, but acknowledged. Perhaps this was something that used to happen in the early days of autos and doesn't much anymore?

If there's one more thing I've learned during this first grow, "endless variety" takes on a whole different meaning when growing Cannabis. There is absolutely no guarantee exactly what will result when a plant packs a new generation into it's seeds. Each and every one is a unique individual.

So I now understand why people keep mothers. But if there's endless variety, how do you pick a "favorite".

Sadly, this probably also explains why I am single.




dammit.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

One last update for 2015 on this first grow.

Oddly, today we had nothing to do. Everyone was great and just enjoyed some face time up on their high chair and a new position in the tent.



Family pics:










Tall NL:














Trudy!:


















Candi:

























Droopy:










Britney:






Rev:






Each and every one of you has been a pleasure to meet, and I thank you for your help, support, and friendship.

Happy New Year's Eve !!! ​

 

[TheNarrator]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

I don't have much else to say other than that is looking sooooo damn nice!!

Trudy's still the girl for me but damn not by much.

Looks like Candi, Britney and Rev will start filling out like crazy soon

 

[MzSiroz]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Your autos look great Arteekay! And thanks for the information about how autos flower and rifleman as well.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Trudy and Candi look awesome and droopy isn't droopy anymore! You guys are gonna pull a heck of a nice harvest. You should build a lazy Susan because you like to pull them out and pedestal them.

 

[golfer420]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Great looking ladies, RTK. Amazing first grow Hope you have a Happy New Year

Interesting discussions on the autos. I am by no means an expert but have grown 2 different types of autos from CKS. 3 NL plants and 2 Jack Herers. I had the NL's at 18/6 and the Jacks at 20/4. All 5 plants started showing sex between day 26 and 30.

I have considered them showing sex when I see the first visible pistils. My understanding is once they begin showing sex they have started the flowering process and regardless of what you do with the lights (12/12, back to 20/4, whatever), they will continue the flowering process until they're done.

I think in my current grow with two Jacks, they both look very different. One was topped and heavily LST'd. The other was transplanted. I believe I stunted the one that was topped with very low PH and corrected with flushing. I feel that stunted her growth (and flowering) for about 2 weeks comparted to the other.

I have read that if you clone an auto, the clone will be the age of the mother - and will not be able to go into veg mode to get large again. Only from reading - I don't have first hand knowledge.

 

[glimmergrass]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Great update, arteekay -- impressive garden full of beauty. That Trudi is quite the looker, eh?

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

I don't have much else to say other than that is looking sooooo damn nice!!

Trudy's still the girl for me but damn not by much.

Looks like Candi, Britney and Rev will start filling out like crazy soon

Britney was the only one to give me a "wow" moment today, but all the rest (excluding Droopy) are looking just fantastic.

Your autos look great Arteekay! And thanks for the information about how autos flower and rifleman as well.

Thanks MzSiroz, much of my understanding of autoflowering plants came from the knowledge and experience of the far more seasoned growers here. Glimmergrass' signature has two of my favorite links in it, as I see Atrain as a master autoflower gardener.

Great update, arteekay -- impressive garden full of beauty. That Trudi is quite the looker, eh?

Trudy looks so nice she makes me want to throw myself down a flight of stairs!

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Great looking ladies, RTK. Amazing first grow Hope you have a Happy New Year

Interesting discussions on the autos. I am by no means an expert but have grown 2 different types of autos from CKS. 3 NL plants and 2 Jack Herers. I had the NL's at 18/6 and the Jacks at 20/4. All 5 plants started showing sex between day 26 and 30.

I have considered them showing sex when I see the first visible pistils. My understanding is once they begin showing sex they have started the flowering process and regardless of what you do with the lights (12/12, back to 20/4, whatever), they will continue the flowering process until they're done.

I think in my current grow with two Jacks, they both look very different. One was topped and heavily LST'd. The other was transplanted. I believe I stunted the one that was topped with very low PH and corrected with flushing. I feel that stunted her growth (and flowering) for about 2 weeks comparted to the other.

I have read that if you clone an auto, the clone will be the age of the mother - and will not be able to go into veg mode to get large again. Only from reading - I don't have first hand knowledge.

I could have written this myself, it exactly mirrors my understanding and similarly is completely from research and a little recent experience.

I can't imagine we won't always have at least one or two autos on the go regardless of what else is going on.

Thanks for the compliment, I personally think it's a decent first grow, better than average maybe even.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Trudy and Candi look awesome and droopy isn't droopy anymore! You guys are gonna pull a heck of a nice harvest. You should build a lazy Susan because you like to pull them out and pedestal them.

Droopy isn't droopy anymore, but she's not really frosting up at all either. Her side nugs are now starting to turn purple as well. We decided to rearrange the tent again today with Rev and Brit getting preferential treatment over Droops. She can stay in the big girl tent for now, but she can't be taking away from someone else who has a chance of being great.

As for the lazy Susan, GET OUT OF MY HEAD you sorcerer. I want a mobile height adjustable pedestal with storage for trimmers, camera accessories, flashlights, magnifying glasses, etc. etc., and of course a pack of papers and a lighter.

Massage accessory may be optional, but if included the happy ending would have to be implied.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Ahh, 2016 is a great year so far!

Rev was the only one that needed a drink today. She got full strength DNF Bloom A+B and half strength Calmag+ at 880ppm and 5.8 PH.

All of the original four but Candi are slowing down on their water consumption a touch, and Britney was just fed two days ago. Expecting a couple in need tomorrow.

Jaybizz was looking through our written grow journal, working on a spreadsheet, and noticed that I screwed up and had Rev a day younger than she actually is.



Family pics:






Candi (57 days) grew by .5 to 30 inches and getting phat everywhere:






Droopy (57 days) at 16.5 inches she actually grew by a half inch, or we're just being a little more generous, not sure which:








Rev (47 days) stayed at 19 inches and is likely going to stay there:






Trudy (57 days) put on .5 to 19.5 inches, she'll get quarter strength nutes next time in prep for her finale, I think:




Seeing a little discoloration on her top cola's sugar leaves:








Tallest NL (57 days) stayed at 23 inches and remains just a couple of days behind Trudy:










Jaybiz happened to have a lighter handy:




Britney! (49 days, 30 days since her accident) grew another 2 to 2.5 inches to 23. This means she ties our Tallest NL and will still stretch I bet to become our second tallest plant, and with five other tops far higher than Trudy or the tall NL:







Britney now presents an interesting, yet as usual misleading example of correlation most certainly not implying causation. From the data, sitting on a slab is far worse for yields than picking your plant up and slamming her into a light.

Go figger, right?


Anyway, as I said elsewhere, Droopy has been nominated for eviction and gets the back corner with others overlapping her. 6 in a 4x4 is too many for us right now and she's just lucky to still be in there at all.



Back in the tent:







I also started a new grow journal for our next set of girls, link in my signature. Our first photo period grow is now underway.

 

[CBDstrainman]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Exquisite flowers very nice to see you doing so well.