Applegate's 1st Grow - Tangerine Dream & Jack Herer

This is a reply to DankWolfs post back in November about growing bags and their shape holding. Dont mean to clutter up your thread Applegate. I have a friend who will only grow in bags. he suffered the same issues. had plants falling over outside all the time. I remedied this for him.. Flipped over a 5 gallon paint bucket. pulled the bag over it like putting a shirt on a toddler. Wrapped duct tape around the bucket at the base of the bag then again 2 more times 4 or 5 inches below( farther up the bag) and then again at the top of the bucket. bam. bags have been more tolerant to holding their cylindrical shape! :thumb:
 
STIHL LOGGER said:
This is a reply to DankWolfs post back in November about growing bags and their shape holding. Dont mean to clutter up your thread Applegate. I have a friend who will only grow in bags. he suffered the same issues. had plants falling over outside all the time. I remedied this for him.. Flipped over a 5 gallon paint bucket. pulled the bag over it like putting a shirt on a toddler. Wrapped duct tape around the bucket at the base of the bag then again 2 more times 4 or 5 inches below( farther up the bag) and then again at the top of the bucket. bam. bags have been more tolerant to holding their cylindrical shape! :thumb:
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Okay - I'm a little slow on the draw. So you use the bucket to block out the shape of the bag, reinforce the bag with duct tape, and then remove the bucket? I haven't had issues with my grow bags but this is the first grow and I suspect they'll break down and get a bit saggy with multiple future grows. I'm cheap in that I don't mind making a little investment as long as whatever I've bought lasts forever so I'm truly interested in understanding your technique.

Thanks so much for stopping by and taking a look! I'm looking forward to harvest with a mixture of excitement and dread. I'll feel better once I've been around the block a couple of times.

I miss Dankwolf. He's gone missing. I hope he finds his way back.
 
Nice plants! I would harvest them at once. Amber trichomes contain oxidized and degraded agents. Clear trichomes, as recent research has shown, can already have a higher THC level than cloudy ones. I would certainly not wait until 1/3 is amber in any case. Oxidized to CBN, it does have a more narcotic effect, but that effect can be very unpleasant, sort of like being sick.

Due to time contraints, I harvested my Crimea Blue with about half of the trichomes still clear, and it is the strongest weed I and several other people have ever smoked. It did require 4-5 weeks of fermentation before it stopped causing nasty psychotic effects at high dosages, and even now, one has to be careful.

I have grown a Tangelo Rapido (Tangerine Dream Auto) once, the effect is very uplifting and "weird", which is why I was interested in your report. I have been thinking of trying to get regular (non-auto) seeds to build up a decent stash of the stuff, but I was put off by the supposed instability. I wrote "trying" because unfortunately, you cannot simply order seeds here in Germany, it can get you busted.

I really wonder how you and others can start up the plants so fast. At 2 weeks, mine are always just a few cm high, though I have no problems with the later stages. See my last report (Original Cheese), it completed 1 day before the advertised time, counted from flipping to 12/12. Maybe my slow starts contribute to that, as preflowers are already there before changing to 12/12.
 
grasbauer said:
Nice plants! I would harvest them at once....

...require 4-5 weeks of fermentation before it stopped causing nasty psychotic effects at high dosages, and even now, one has to be careful....

I really wonder how you and others can start up the plants so fast.
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Dogonit, grasbauer! I had just made the command decision to let them go another week or two and now with your comments I'm feeling all sweaty about that decision! I'm truly worried about "paranoia" weed which is what I believe you may mean by "nasty psychotic effects". As the title of my journal states, this is my very first grow and while the growing part came naturally to me, it is the harvesting that has me flummoxed.

Thank you very much for your input. Perhaps I'll chop earlier than later. I waited too long to flip them and I don't want to make the same mistake with harvest. :trance:

As far as any accelerated early growth on new plants, I think the key is gentle light for the first 3-4 weeks. I've always started all my garden seedlings (veggies and flowers) under 40W cool fluorescent shop lights and didn't know to do anything different with MJ. The plants seemed to double or triple in size every day for the first couple of weeks under the weaker light. In fact, I was recently gifted with a 2ft T5 fixture and tried to start the new seedlings (backfill to replace the current occupants of the grow room) with the new fixture thinking it would be an improvement. WRONG! The stronger light stunted their growth and now that I've moved them back under the 40W shop light they are recovering and starting to flourish.
 
applegate said:
Okay - I'm a little slow on the draw. So you use the bucket to block out the shape of the bag, reinforce the bag with duct tape, and then remove the bucket? I haven't had issues with my grow bags but this is the first grow and I suspect they'll break down and get a bit saggy with multiple future grows. I'm cheap in that I don't mind making a little investment as long as whatever I've bought lasts forever so I'm truly interested in understanding your technique.

Thanks so much for stopping by and taking a look! I'm looking forward to harvest with a mixture of excitement and dread. I'll feel better once I've been around the block a couple of times.

I miss Dankwolf. He's gone missing. I hope he finds his way back.
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The reinforcement of the bottom foot or so of the bag was just to kinda stabilize the bags "foot print". This was used for outdoor grow though. It helped maintain the integrity of the bag and kept them from falling over after a good soaking rain or a gusty thunder storm. Since he implemented this little technique he has been able to re use most of his bags. Hes a cheap guy too. lol. some of them he lost due to his constant need to spin the plants around for even light in a coarse grass hay field and it ripped the bottoms of the bags pretty bad.
 
It could be debatable if that plant on the photo from the 16th was ready or not. I would've said, go for it, another week at most. 2 weeks later, there should be no doubt. Don't turn your weed into a barbiturate.. also, CBN can really make you feel sick, for example, it makes my heart start to race. Better to use the right cultivar for a narcotic effect.

About "paranoia", I haven't experienced that in the classical sense. I think there are different effects that have to be differentiated from one another. Strong psychoactive effects might cause fear for beginners ("what's happening to me?"). For example, some varieties, when fresh, caused my respiratory passages to swell up a bit, and then you start to wonder if you will start to suffocate at some point. You won't, and apparently, no one ever did - the effect stops getting stronger at a certain unpleasant, but not dangerous point. Same for other conditions like the racing heart.

In the case of the Crimea Blue, I had watched a movie with a tragic ending, and suddenly, it just knocked me down with depression. Another one who tried it had one of the panic attacks he is being treated for. That is unusual, but a mildly lowered mood is a common problem.

In my (fairly short) experience, these effects are reduced a lot by curing. I couldn't stand the Arjan's Haze #3 I grew last year at first, it was just nasty when fresh. Not to mention the fresh leaves I cooked tea from ... pure horror, and I'm still angry that beginners are given such bad advice by experienced consumers who might have a high tolerance against such effects.
All of this was completely gone after 2 weeks of slow drying and another 6 weeks of curing.
I have a feeling many people who harvest late are really not giving the weed the ~2 months it needs after harvest to get into shape. They sort of cure the buds while still connected to the plant...

About my seedlings, I really don't know..I have used 55W to 160W CFL lighting, 15k to 50k lux, and they remain slow. Not a problem for non-autos, but autos stay really small that way, because the clock is ticking once sprouted. Maybe the potting soil is the problem, or low temperatures (below 20°C) when the lights are off. Funny thing is, the root system is nicely developed, the plants become root bound after less than 2 weeks in 0.7l pots, but the plant above ground is just very small.
 
applegate said:
Dogonit, grasbauer! I had just made the command decision to let them go another week or two and now with your comments I'm feeling all sweaty about that decision! I'm truly worried about "paranoia" weed which is what I believe you may mean by "nasty psychotic effects". As the title of my journal states, this is my very first grow and while the growing part came naturally to me, it is the harvesting that has me flummoxed.

Thank you very much for your input. Perhaps I'll chop earlier than later. I waited too long to flip them and I don't want to make the same mistake with harvest. :trance:

As far as any accelerated early growth on new plants, I think the key is gentle light for the first 3-4 weeks. I've always started all my garden seedlings (veggies and flowers) under 40W cool fluorescent shop lights and didn't know to do anything different with MJ. The plants seemed to double or triple in size every day for the first couple of weeks under the weaker light. In fact, I was recently gifted with a 2ft T5 fixture and tried to start the new seedlings (backfill to replace the current occupants of the grow room) with the new fixture thinking it would be an improvement. WRONG! The stronger light stunted their growth and now that I've moved them back under the 40W shop light they are recovering and starting to flourish.
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"If" I understand correctly.... if you wait for more amber you will maximize CBD at the expense of THC, which is what I am after (CBD's). I like a little buzz to go along with the pain/inflammation relief, but high THC is not my objective. I think you need to figure out which way you want to go and let that help with your desicion. I'm pretty sure your better half would prefer a third amber but then who am I :-)
 
Best time to harvest also depends on the cultivar. I do think 30% amber is very late for anything but the most Sativa dominant ones.

I tried to find scientific data about all this, with no success so far. Some sources say that CBD levels stay relatively constant, and what people perceive as the narcotic effects come from degradation to CBN from light and heat.

So far, the testing I did with the Arjan's Haze #3 harvested at 3 different points supports this (it's no problem to harvest a plant in several stages!). The last harvest was a bit lame and certainly feels similar to smoking weed that was just lying around for too long. Just a bit of the edge taken off.
However, we are talking about 5 weeks between the first harvest and the last. Effect of the buds chopped off within 2-3 weeks was quite similar.
 
The plant that drew applegate and I together was the PainKiller XL which is 75% Sativa. I am still learning as I go but my focus is the higher CBD's and sometimes I forget she has other strains growing too however that's my story and I'm stickin with it. In fact I asked Royal Queen Seeds what percentage of amber they recommend (PK-XL) and they said 50%.
 
Maybe RQS think their customers do not want to cure for a long time, and then it might be better to harvest late.
Either way, I do not claim to know the absolute truth.. in fact, it's staggering how much hearsay and simply wrong information can be found even in best selling books on MJ growing.
That is why I recommend to harvest in several stages and compare the results. Next time, you will know exactly what suits you best.
 
I'm pretty sure the amber trichomes have THC that has degraded to CBN (cannabinol) which is different than CBD (cannabidiol). CBN has the heavy narcotic, sedative effect - something I don't want. As I understand it, the desirerable CBD is more or less inherent to the plant and is not necessarily a product of degraded trichomes.

But I guess it'll all come out on the wash....I'm taking one of the Tangerines tomorrow before the lights come on. I'll let the other plants go for another week. There's no experience like actual experience and this will let me a better feel for the perfect stage for harvest.

I've started taking the foliage off the plant I'm going to harvest. Pictures later today. Whoo-hoo!
 
111 days from seed - 68 days from switch. This plant is 5' 3". She lost some height when she started to put on weight!

My victim is the natural Tangerine Dream. She's not entirely natural - I had to bend her top 25 days into flower because she stretched generously and I was afraid I'd run into height isuues (and I would have). She's had nothing but tap water for the last 6 days. Not an aggressive flush for sure but I've been running pretty light nutes (Bontanicare) all along so I hope a one week flush is sufficient. She never yellowed up but the vast majority of her trichomes are deep milky with a few clear and a few amber so I think she's at least entering the prime window for harvest.

She doesn't have a sharp, bright tangerine smell - instead it is a deep, dark orange musk; spicy and dank. She's silly sticky - some of the trim was gooey and I'll have to scrape the snipper blades before the deep manicure because they're pretty gummed up with goodness.

Eeeeeeee! That's my squeal of excitement! This is has been a tremendously satisfying experience. I mean, I've felt some affection for and pride in my tomatoes and peppers, but this? Tops. Period.

Here are the haunting last photos of Natural Tangerine as I knew her. The bell tolls for thee at seven bells tomorrow.

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I had a perfectly good can of creamed corn ready to use for a size perspective shot but he insisted on holding the Manwich. I think he's kind of impressed with my effort.

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Here's the trim. I didn't take much off the bottom of the plant. I figure most of it will end up in the trim bucket. I'm going to dry rub it and try to make a topical cream or something.

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A couple of 4 foot boxes that I'll employ as drying chambers for the branches.

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applegate said:
97 days from seed and 54 days into flower.

I'm kind of running out of ideas on how to photograph the plants. I tend to take a lot of one bud portraits and while I'm enthralled with every picture, I suspect it might be tiring for other viewers. I'm trying to limit posting to the best pictures but I apologize in advance if I've gone overboard.

....snip
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There's no such thing as too much bud porn! They are amazing pictures - keep 'em coming
 
grasbauer said:
Maybe RQS think their customers do not want to cure for a long time, and then it might be better to harvest late.
Either way, I do not claim to know the absolute truth.. in fact, it's staggering how much hearsay and simply wrong information can be found even in best selling books on MJ growing.
That is why I recommend to harvest in several stages and compare the results. Next time, you will know exactly what suits you best.
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That's a cunning plan and something I'm toying with on my first grow - I like your thinking on this. The jars will be labelled and the percentage of milky & amber trichomes noted. Waiting to 50% amber isn't in my game plan on the Painkiller XL as I'd like to still be able to function, but if I let a branch or two go to 30% it will be labelled as a bedtime blend.
 
BeaverIslander said:
The plant that drew applegate and I together was the PainKiller XL which is 75% Sativa. I am still learning as I go but my focus is the higher CBD's and sometimes I forget she has other strains growing too however that's my story and I'm stickin with it. In fact I asked Royal Queen Seeds what percentage of amber they recommend (PK-XL) and they said 50%.
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Hey Beav - I'm following your lead on the Painkillers in lockstep. I'm going to harvest my current plants in waves so I can see how they finish in different stages. Neither are considered high CBD cultivars so I might as well go for THC as best I can. My husband is a pretty light smoker - meaning he does one or two hits once or twice a day depending on how he's feeling. The THC does seem to benefit him as he has a little experience with high THC dispensary strains. As I know you and he have some of the same issues that require medication I will be sure to report his verdict on TD and Jack Herer to you.
 
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