Alaskan1's Flo n Gro Mixed Bag Grow

jandre2k3 said:
Plants... living... growing... That's what's going on. Put the TDS meter down, and relax. If there's no sign of bad, then it's good! pH is in range, so don't worry. I think now that you've found out your system is okay, you're focusing on something else to stress about. Just watch your plants and be happy. THEY will tell you if something is wrong, THEN use the meters to find out what... Not use the meters and expect something wrong... If they're green and growing, things are fine.
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Actually no. I'm just wondering whats going on and why they do this. Just looking to understand more. The better I understand my plants and what and why they do it the better grower I will become.
I have had my big sigh of relief and am not stressed about the plants at all.
 
Alaskan1 said:
Actually no. I'm just wondering whats going on and why they do this. Just looking to understand more. The better I understand my plants and what and why they do it the better grower I will become.
I have had my big sigh of relief and am not stressed about the plants at all.
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Okay, then, here's what happens: I have noticed in my own grows that pH can swing from hour to hour or not at all. Same with PPM/TDS. Plants will take what they need from what we give them and leave the rest. They need different things during different life cycles throughout the day, sometimes it's just water because they have enough nutes stored to do what they need. Sometimes it's both, and sometimes it's more of the candy in the water. Watch, observe, smile. Your plants are doing what they do.
 
jandre2k3 said:
Okay, then, here's what happens: I have noticed in my own grows that pH can swing from hour to hour or not at all. Same with PPM/TDS. Plants will take what they need from what we give them and leave the rest. They need different things during different life cycles throughout the day, sometimes it's just water because they have enough nutes stored to do what they need. Sometimes it's both, and sometimes it's more of the candy in the water. Watch, observe, smile. Your plants are doing what they do.
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But plants will actually go.....whoa, I took too many nutes yesterday so I'm going to put them back? Thats what has me stumped lol
If infact if that is the case then the plants are smarter then I gave them credit for. I wonder what else they can do that with? Light? Ohhhhh yesterday I took in toooooo much light so today I'm not going to take as much?
 
Alaskan1 said:
But plants will actually go.....whoa, I took too many nutes yesterday so I'm going to put them back? Thats what has me stumped lol
If infact if that is the case then the plants are smarter then I gave them credit for. I wonder what else they can do that with? Light? Ohhhhh yesterday I took in toooooo much light so today I'm not going to take as much?
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Actually, you're not far from the truth. Roots are not just a 1-way street, but that has to do with age, not just life processes. As plants near the end of their life, they have been known to actually enrich the soil in which they grow in their final weeks, almost as if they're preparing the ground for their offspring. I know you're not in soil, but it's the same basic principle here. That's the reason for the 2 week flush! The plants will use what they can and purge the rest before they die.

There is a second way your PPM will change and is what is happening here: When they take only water and leave nutes because they have enough stored, your PPM rises. As the day wears on and photosynthesis depletes their stores they take more nutrients than water, thus PPM drops. In preparation for night processes and adding weight/height they will do neither, either, or both. It all depends on what is stored, and what was used. This is how the PPM will vary from hour to hour and day to day.

On your thoughts about light, if plant sugars are too high for the plant to use that day, photosynthesis will be low that day, believe it or not.
 
Hey Alaskan1 :cheertwo:

Just wanted to say I've caught up and things are looking very swell!!:bravo:

You seem to be very busy yet still manage to make everything look easy...keep it up friend!!

Sorry I've been so mia recently, things were cloudy but we are in the clear now :Namaste:
 
I'm going to agree & disagree with Jandre, Kinda.

In the end we will almost say the same thing, but allow me to expound some dribble, because I'm bored.

If using a large reservoir, I agree on taking TDS readings less often. Go for every 3 days according to the word of a master grower that explained it to me. This guy manages 76k watts of RDWC hydro grows in 3 different locations, so I tend to believe in his ability.

What he basically said is mark your res top water line. On 3 day intervals, always FILL BACK to top line BEFORE taking TDS readings. Remember to allow time for the new water to mix up well with the nutrient water to get a realistic reading. If your ppm has gone down more than 60, your levels are too low, they are eating heavier than you are feeding. If your ppm reading is the same or higher, you are feeding them too hot and need to back off on the nutes some.

So what is happening when the ppm went down 1 day then back up the next day? They needed to eat really bad. But then on day 2, after the plants responding to all those lovely nutrients they had been starved of (exaggeration), the new growth and boost from the nutrient required they needed to drink some water. Since they took in more water, it thickened the mix. Hence ppm went up.

Now, for me, because my res is only 5 gals, and I'm currently adding about 2 gals per day of water back in, I have to take readings daily. I've been seeing my nutrient mix take 2 gals water, wait an hour to take readings, find it low, take a quart out of res, mix up a gal worth of nute mix in the quart, add it back in to the res. let it mix up and confirm my readings are ok and back reasonably close to my ppm range desired. Which for me it appears as though about 2.20 - 2.30 e.c. or 1100-1150 ppm on a .500 conv meter.

I hope this makes sense. Jandre and I are saying basically the same thing in a slightly different manner.

Edit: If I used at least 10 gals of res I would wait in my grow. As it is, I see some days of little feeding and only add water and then the next day it's down that 60 points and I add back accordingly. I can't go two days w/o top off because the water in the buckets would be too low and far from the roots. But that's DWC.
 
some techincal info their, great to read but a lot to take in, these plants really do have a whole lot going on that we dont know about, brilliant info though, i love reading stuff like this as it just amazes me what people know about these plants and plants in general
 
Bassman59 said:
I'm going to agree & disagree with Jandre, Kinda.

In the end we will almost say the same thing, but allow me to expound some dribble, because I'm bored.

If using a large reservoir, I agree on taking TDS readings less often. Go for every 3 days according to the word of a master grower that explained it to me. This guy manages 76k watts of RDWC hydro grows in 3 different locations, so I tend to believe in his ability.

What he basically said is mark your res top water line. On 3 day intervals, always FILL BACK to top line BEFORE taking TDS readings. Remember to allow time for the new water to mix up well with the nutrient water to get a realistic reading. If your ppm has gone down more than 60, your levels are too low, they are eating heavier than you are feeding. If your ppm reading is the same or higher, you are feeding them too hot and need to back off on the nutes some.

So what is happening when the ppm went down 1 day then back up the next day? They needed to eat really bad. But then on day 2, after the plants responding to all those lovely nutrients they had been starved of (exaggeration), the new growth and boost from the nutrient required they needed to drink some water. Since they took in more water, it thickened the mix. Hence ppm went up.

Now, for me, because my res is only 5 gals, and I'm currently adding about 2 gals per day of water back in, I have to take readings daily. I've been seeing my nutrient mix take 2 gals water, wait an hour to take readings, find it low, take a quart out of res, mix up a gal worth of nute mix in the quart, add it back in to the res. let it mix up and confirm my readings are ok and back reasonably close to my ppm range desired. Which for me it appears as though about 2.20 - 2.30 e.c. or 1100-1150 ppm on a .500 conv meter.

I hope this makes sense. Jandre and I are saying basically the same thing in a slightly different manner.

Edit: If I used at least 10 gals of res I would wait in my grow. As it is, I see some days of little feeding and only add water and then the next day it's down that 60 points and I add back accordingly. I can't go two days w/o top off because the water in the buckets would be too low and far from the roots. But that's DWC.
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Most excellent reiteration. I think that is the better way to say it actually. It's a little easier to understand, I guess. Although he's got a 55gal res, the basic principle applies. Sometimes they just eat, sometimes they need to just drink - respond accordingly. I like the 60 pt. cutoff of do nothing, or act now. It's a very reasonable coarse of action.

I would however, in this 55gal res, go for 3 days, rather than every day as in the case of the 5 gal DWC. Yes, they're both the same basic principle as in they both bathe the roots in water, up to their "waist" but with the Flow-n-Gro it circulates all that back to a main res and some sits in the buckets between fills. This will also cause some instability in your readings because the plants will change what is in the buckets as it sits and on the next fill your res reading will change, and this could happen EVERY FILL, conceivably giving you different readings each time. I'm not saying it definitely will, just that it could happen. Also, if you can, take your readings just after a "Drain" cycle to get the most accurate reading possible, as the water will have cycled through the buckets a couple of times and mixed everything up better.
 
You know, it just occurred to me that I think AK1 uses a .7 conversion meter. So his ppm number would be about 85-90 ppm if using that meter.
 
Bassman59 said:
You know, it just occurred to me that I think AK1 uses a .7 conversion meter. So his ppm number would be about 85-90 ppm if using that meter.
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This is the exact reason I got an EC meter. No worry about conversions now. I got the EC rating form Corey on where I should be for Veg "Crazy Growth" and Flower "Monster Bloom" and I stick to +/- .1 of there.
 
jandre2k3 said:
This is the exact reason I got an EC meter. No worry about conversions now. I got the EC rating form Corey on where I should be for Veg "Crazy Growth" and Flower "Monster Bloom" and I stick to +/- .1 of there.
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Shoot, I just bought a tds meter too. I'm always behind.
 
BlazinThat said:
Shoot, I just bought a tds meter too. I'm always behind.
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No worries, just check which conversion your meter uses for estimating PPM, and go from there. Just remember to check the other person's conversion factor before trying to emulate. In other words, if yours uses the .50 and the other guy's meter is .70, devide his by 700 for EC and multiply the EC by 500 for your meter's target reading.

Ex. The other guy's reading is 1280 and his is a .70 meter and yours is a .50 meter.

1280PPM / 700 factor = 1.83EC
1.83EC x 500 factor = 915PPM

-OR-

You could simply divide the .7 factored meter's reading by 1.4 to get the .5 factored meter's target reading:
1280/1.4=914.29. Close enough to not matter a bit.

To go the other way, you would multiply the .5 factored meter's reading by 1.4 to get the .7 factored meter's target reading:
915*1.4=1281 again, close enough to not matter.
 
MissBud said:
Hey Alaskan1 :cheertwo:

Just wanted to say I've caught up and things are looking very swell!!:bravo:

You seem to be very busy yet still manage to make everything look easy...keep it up friend!!

Sorry I've been so mia recently, things were cloudy but we are in the clear now :Namaste:
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Thanks Miss Bud, glad to have you back !!!!
Busy yes, easy no lol You just don't see whats going on behind the scenes. Very hard sometimes when your my age to be motivated. I have to make myself do the things I need to. Example: I should be up in the grow room defoliating and not on the computer lol But, when it's sunny and warm outside and you can sit on your computer while drinking coffee outside......who wants to be inside?

Very glad to hear things have cleared up for you. Time to get rockin with a grow missy! :thumb:
 
Bassman59 said:
I'm going to agree & disagree with Jandre, Kinda.

In the end we will almost say the same thing, but allow me to expound some dribble, because I'm bored.

If using a large reservoir, I agree on taking TDS readings less often. Go for every 3 days according to the word of a master grower that explained it to me. This guy manages 76k watts of RDWC hydro grows in 3 different locations, so I tend to believe in his ability.

What he basically said is mark your res top water line. On 3 day intervals, always FILL BACK to top line BEFORE taking TDS readings. Remember to allow time for the new water to mix up well with the nutrient water to get a realistic reading. If your ppm has gone down more than 60, your levels are too low, they are eating heavier than you are feeding. If your ppm reading is the same or higher, you are feeding them too hot and need to back off on the nutes some.

So what is happening when the ppm went down 1 day then back up the next day? They needed to eat really bad. But then on day 2, after the plants responding to all those lovely nutrients they had been starved of (exaggeration), the new growth and boost from the nutrient required they needed to drink some water. Since they took in more water, it thickened the mix. Hence ppm went up.

Now, for me, because my res is only 5 gals, and I'm currently adding about 2 gals per day of water back in, I have to take readings daily. I've been seeing my nutrient mix take 2 gals water, wait an hour to take readings, find it low, take a quart out of res, mix up a gal worth of nute mix in the quart, add it back in to the res. let it mix up and confirm my readings are ok and back reasonably close to my ppm range desired. Which for me it appears as though about 2.20 - 2.30 e.c. or 1100-1150 ppm on a .500 conv meter.

I hope this makes sense. Jandre and I are saying basically the same thing in a slightly different manner.

Edit: If I used at least 10 gals of res I would wait in my grow. As it is, I see some days of little feeding and only add water and then the next day it's down that 60 points and I add back accordingly. I can't go two days w/o top off because the water in the buckets would be too low and far from the roots. But that's DWC.
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The only issue I have is adding nutes back into the res because what if they decide to spit some nutes back like they have lately? Now all of a sudden my res is hot with too much nutes. Lately I have seen them swing over 100 ppm as of late.
I check my res daily for water and PH. If they have drank only 2 gallons I'm not going to add any water but once they have drank 3 gallons I fill the res back up with water. Seem to be working for me.
 
jandre2k3 said:
No worries, just check which conversion your meter uses for estimating PPM, and go from there. Just remember to check the other person's conversion factor before trying to emulate. In other words, if yours uses the .50 and the other guy's meter is .70, devide his by 700 for EC and multiply the EC by 500 for your meter's target reading.

Ex. The other guy's reading is 1280 and his is a .70 meter and yours is a .50 meter.

1280PPM / 700 factor = 1.83EC
1.83EC x 500 factor = 915PPM

-OR-

You could simply divide the .7 factored meter's reading by 1.4 to get the .5 factored meter's target reading:
1280/1.4=914.29. Close enough to not matter a bit.

To go the other way, you would multiply the .5 factored meter's reading by 1.4 to get the .7 factored meter's target reading:
915*1.4=1281 again, close enough to not matter.
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I have both a TDS reading meter and an EC meter. I use the TDS meter because it's easier. It's incorperated into my Hanna meter which has PH, PPM and TDS. Just have to hit a button to get the readings. it's odd though. The meter calls it a EC/TDS button..........so which one is it?
 
Alaskan1 said:
I have both a TDS reading meter and an EC meter. I use the TDS meter because it's easier. It's incorperated into my Hanna meter which has PH, PPM and TDS. Just have to hit a button to get the readings. it's odd though. The meter calls it a EC/TDS button..........so which one is it?
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EC is the tiny valued number no higher than 3. TDS will be in the hundreds or thousands.

P.S. if your EC ever reads over 3, you're screwed! Flush, flush, remove 17Gal of nutes, fill with pure water. run your filler pump 5min, check again. adjust as needed.
 
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