AKGramma's Perpetual Grow

I went back and forth on the ancestry of Frilly lady, who came from Nirvana labelled as Bubblelicious. Below is a comparison of their leaves and their growth patterns. These are jut about spent, and yes, they had mites, that I killed off. You tell me. What is Frilly lady? She is def NOT BBL!

BBL Clone leaf is on the left. it typically has 7 fingers with a long red petiole. Frilly lady's fan leaf, taken from a cola, is 3/4 the size, has 11 fingers (2 are now dried up) with a very short green petiole
Leaf_compare.JPG


This is the growth pattern of the typical BBL under my conditions. Lanky, rangy, tending to grow tall rather than wide. The BBL smell subtly sweet, fruity.
BBL_clone.JPG


This one is Frilly Lady, who has grown 6 thick colas with buds right on top of each other all the way down. She has developed a piney scent, altho not strong. She is staying short at 33".
Frilly_lady.JPG


What do you all think?

EDIT: Both are in 3 gallon bins in soil/vermiculite/sand mix.
 
AKgramma said:
Looks like the bubbler works for you, then. Keep us informed - with pics - :cheertwo:
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The bubbler experiment came extremely close to success but failed just at the last minute. As small roots were starting to form on several of the cuttings, they simultaneously started turning brown and dying back as rot set in.
I deliberately hadn't changed the water in the name of science. I'm doing another round but will change the water every so often in this next batch.
 
Weaselcracker said:
The bubbler experiment came extremely close to success but failed just at the last minute. As small roots were starting to form on several of the cuttings, they simultaneously started turning brown and dying back as rot set in.
I deliberately hadn't changed the water in the name of science. I'm doing another round but will change the water every so often in this next batch.
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In my case the stems rotted below the styrofoam. I wonder if something should be added to the water to prevent rot?
 
From what I remember of my aerocloner days- proper (lower) temps are very important to keep rot away. Some people use hydrogen peroxide to try and keep the situation sterile. Some people add beneficial bacteria and fungi, though it's questionable how well they survive and perform in that environment, especially the latter of the two. There are a bunch of possible minor factors that you could spend a lot of time tweaking but my impression was that temperature is the most important one- and if you keep your temps between 70-75, and change the water now and then, you'll have the basics covered. As always, there are people who say 'I never change the water and have 100 percent success', etc. I thought I'd give it a try.
I think my temps are fairly good- possibly a little in the high side. I can't control the environment 100% though as it's affected by the outside climate. I'll flail away at it a bit longer...
 
Weaselcracker said:
As small roots were starting to form on several of the cuttings, they simultaneously started turning brown and dying back as rot set in.
Click to expand...

AKgramma said:
In my case the stems rotted below the styrofoam. I wonder if something should be added to the water to prevent rot?
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A higher level of dissolved O₂, lol? Try increasing whatever it is that you're using to provide it (bigger air stone, more air stones, etc.) and remember that the bulk of the transference (to the solution/water) takes place at the surface. You could also try adding a few milliliters per gallon of H₂O₂ (assuming the usual consumer strength of 3%) for a little O₂ boost, so to speak.
 
I'd have to agree that your Frilly Lady is NOT a BBL. As to what it is, your guess is as good as mine.
 
Yes oxygen- thanks. The pump for my bubbler actually has available the option for two lines, so I'll stick another one on. I suppose if wanted to get really carried away I could add T's and such in the lines and add an infinite number of airstones...
That's a good point about oxygen mixing at the surface. Right now there is no surface, as the styrofoam lid containing the cuttings is pushed down right to the water. Something I did actually think twice about, but you've got to start somewhere...
The fact that the cuttings did as well as they did tells me I'm close though.
 
Weaselcracker said:
From what I remember of my aerocloner days- proper (lower) temps are very important to keep rot away. Some people use hydrogen peroxide to try and keep the situation sterile. Some people add beneficial bacteria and fungi, though it's questionable how well they survive and perform in that environment, especially the latter of the two. There are a bunch of possible minor factors that you could spend a lot of time tweaking but my impression was that temperature is the most important one- and if you keep your temps between 70-75, and change the water now and then, you'll have the basics covered. As always, there are people who say 'I never change the water and have 100 percent success', etc. I thought I'd give it a try.
I think my temps are fairly good- possibly a little in the high side. I can't control the environment 100% though as it's affected by the outside climate. I'll flail away at it a bit longer...
Click to expand...

The H2O2 sounds like a good thing to try. But not much we can do about the hot days of summer. Getting the temps down to ambient temp means turning off all the lights, and that means a piss-poor crop.

My last 3 clones are in the perlite/vermiculite in the dome, and are still hanging in there. But the leaf edges are turning yellow, like a nute deficiency. No roots yet, so can't feed them. I wasn't able to clone anything off Frilly Lady. No branches that aren't colas.
 
It is deficiencies, as the cuttings use up stored nutrients in the leaves. Generally for me -it's when the leaves of the cuttings start to yellow that roots start appearing.
I have been having better luck than before with my regular coco cloning method, now that I have them down on the floor in the coldest corner and have temps somewhat more regulated.
 
SweetSue said:
I'd have to agree that your Frilly Lady is NOT a BBL. As to what it is, your guess is as good as mine.
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Frilly Lady has the leaves of a Sativa and the growth pattern of an Indica. My BBL's are supposed to be Indica-heavy, but display the Sativa growth pattern and bud formation.

If I could get seeds for a strain that looks like Frilly Lady, I would be happy. She is fun to grow, and totally different than anything I have grown to date. I love the colas!

I thoroughly cleaned and sprayed all the ladies today, pinched off dying leaves, fed everyone their nutes and water to runoff and adjusted lights. Since I have each tent on its own light shift, one on days and one on nights, I don't have to do it all at once. But I have to remember that they are ALL under 12/12 now, and to keep the black curtains drawn over those who are sleeping.

I'm seeing new growth with the OGKs, and stretch, so I know their roots hit the reservoirs.
 
Weaselcracker said:
It is deficiencies, as the cuttings use up stored nutrients in the leaves. Generally for me -it's when the leaves of the cuttings start to yellow that roots start appearing.
I have been having better luck than before with my regular coco cloning method, now that I have them down on the floor in the coldest corner and have temps somewhat more regulated.
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Should I give them a couple drops of very dilute nutes? There IS no cool corner in a mobile home in Summer. :Love:
 
No- in my opinion they don't need nutes other than what they steal from the leaves, and it seems to me that this would actually interfere with rooting. Any time I've used anything other than plain water and unfertilized rooting medium, I've had little or no luck. If you can keep temps right (around 75), and the moisture level right (just moist not wet) then they 'should' root.
 
Weaselcracker said:
No- in my opinion they don't need nutes other than what they steal from the leaves, and it seems to me that this would actually interfere with rooting. Any time I've used anything other than plain water and unfertilized rooting medium, I've had little or no luck. If you can keep temps right (around 75), and the moisture level right (just moist not wet) then they 'should' root.
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I have the moisture down, but no way I can get them down to 75, unless I put them outside on the covered porch. They'll only get what light comes in through the doorway (no windows). Will this work?
 
Possibly. Cuttings need very little light to root. I've actually heard of people rooting them in darkness. I use just a small cfl above mine, on 24 hours a day. So if you can plug a cfl in out there - that's all you'd need, assuming the temps are good.
Don't forget that you're talking to someone who's having very limited success with the clones right now, so I sure don't want to come off as sounding like an expert. Usually I find cloning easy, but every once in a while things have a mysterious downturn as they have lately. I'm guessing it's summer temps to blame, but -I'm not sure.
 
Frilly Lady is a total mystery, so I hope she will be a joy to keep for special occasions :)
Interesting about cloning.. I am reading about it too.
The is there a guide line on water height and stone size? Is it suppose to bubble BIG in there? or like an aquarium with fish? just enough to get by?
I have collected a cat litter box ( low edges) for the whole idea of cloning and I am looking into pumps and stones at the moment.
 
Weaselcracker said:
Possibly. Cuttings need very little light to root. I've actually heard of people rooting them in darkness. I use just a small cfl above mine, on 24 hours a day. So if you can plug a cfl in out there - that's all you'd need, assuming the temps are good.
Don't forget that you're talking to someone who's having very limited success with the clones right now, so I sure don't want to come off as sounding like an expert. Usually I find cloning easy, but every once in a while things have a mysterious downturn as they have lately. I'm guessing it's summer temps to blame, but -I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

The same thing happens to me. I cannot successfully clone in winter. I decided to put the dome in a North-facing screened window, where it will get the long days in my latitude, with the cooler temps from outside.
 
A couple of pics of interest.

The first pic is of a soil-layering technique to clone plants. There is only one tied down here, but I took another lanky branch and secured it to the auxiliary pot, as well. All I did was remove the fan leaves from the stem that would be buried, and secured the branches just below the damp soil with a u-shaped piece of coated wire. I didn't scrape the stem or trim off the new branchlets. Their leaves are just above the soil surface. So, I'm expecting two rooted clones in a couple weeks, without the chance of them drying up or rotting.
IMG_062636.JPG


The second pic is a closeup of a Frilly Lady leaf that is half-used, near a bud. Notice the pillowy texture? The BBLs do not do this. So I am positive that Frilly Lady was a mislabeled seed in the packet of BBLs. The pic is blurry because I was too lazy to turn off the fan!
IMG_062431.JPG


I now have ladies I have put under flower from 5-22 to 7-4. The two I put under on 6/22 (BBLs) are way far ahead of Frilly Lady in flower formation, altho FL has many times more, packed closely together.
 
Wonder of wonders! The middle-sized clone of the cuttings I took on 7-4 is rooted and trying to grow out of the drainage hole! The largest and smallest clones are not. I'm going to be careful acclimating the rooted clone this time, with its own separate humidity cap. I want to give this one more exposure to normal air, so she needs to be tended regularly. So I can watch her while I'm at the computer.

She's in her juvenile pot now, with a cap over her.

I'm mixing methods and media here, since I see more growth in the BBLs with soil than soil-less. So I'm doing a combination mix, 75% soil-less and 25% my 3-part potting mix. The soil allows me to add MYKO for the microbes that form a symbiotic relationship with the roots. I also want to top dress with worm castings once the lady recovers from the transplant.

It occurred to me that I could leave the runoff in the saucers, since I have so much Perlite in the mix. This will provide the "reservoir", and I'll be able to monitor the condition of the water and dump it to waste when it looks icky. Not quite a flush, like you do with Hempy pots, but I have 2 months to decide on the final up-pot which way I want to go with her.

So that's why the mixed medium in a standard container with the holes at the bottom.
 
I'm seriously thinking of popping the remaining 9 mystery seeds from Nirvana. The last time I popped seeds, I used peat plugs, which did the job nicely.

Using peat plugs, for newbies, you follow the directions on the kit. If you're using only a few out of the kit, put the rest of the plugs away in a dry place for the next batch. You can still use the tray and cover as the first "greenhouse".

I've had good luck keeping them away from strong light, even covering the cover with a paper towel until the seeds sprout. Then I IMMEDIATELY put a small CFL light really close to the lid until the seedlings hit top. This might take only a couple days.

Then I move the plugs to a taller clear container under gentle lights until I see the roots.

If you carefully cut slits in the netting at transplant, you just have to set the peat plug and the plant into a hole in the new pot, with any medium you desire. The roots will soon leave the vicinity of the peat plugs to seek out new worlds and new civilizations...... er ...... nutrients .....

As with all seedlings started indoors, you have to acclimate them to the lower humidty of the house, by removing the cover each day with increasing time "open" until the seedlings don't droop. I start the acclimation process when I transplant them to their baby pots. And, depending on root growth, I've had them in their baby pots in a couple of weeks, or even less.

So, off to find the peat pots and the starter tray. :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
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