No reply, eh? I’d take that as a no. What are your concerns Loki?
How has dosing gone?
A Base Treatment Regimen For Cancer
- Thread starter CajunCelt
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No reply, eh? I’d take that as a no. What are your concerns Loki?
How has dosing gone?
Hi Sue,
Like I said, I was finally able to get the ingredients to make biobombs. I currently have my wife on 20:1. She is tolerating it well. So today I made some 5:1. She used to take 1 gm /day orally. So Im figuring she can make the jump from 20:1 to 5:1.
Currently she is also taking the following
1. Amigdalina vit B17 - 1,500 mg /day
2. Vit c - 9,000 mg /day
3. Vit E - 1,200mg /day
4. Multi vitamin
5. Pancreatin
This was the recommendation of a doctor to help her with breast cancer.
In addition to this, she doses with 2 tabs of apigenin 30 min before the suppositories 3x/day. I couldnt find Amentaflavone , so I guess Ill have to settle with Ginkgo.
Im also interested in iodine supplements as suggested by VerdantSpires
I was wondering if there could be any adverse reaction with all these things she is taking.
regards
Loki
Like I said, I was finally able to get the ingredients to make biobombs. I currently have my wife on 20:1. She is tolerating it well. So today I made some 5:1. She used to take 1 gm /day orally. So Im figuring she can make the jump from 20:1 to 5:1.
Currently she is also taking the following
1. Amigdalina vit B17 - 1,500 mg /day
2. Vit c - 9,000 mg /day
3. Vit E - 1,200mg /day
4. Multi vitamin
5. Pancreatin
This was the recommendation of a doctor to help her with breast cancer.
In addition to this, she doses with 2 tabs of apigenin 30 min before the suppositories 3x/day. I couldnt find Amentaflavone , so I guess Ill have to settle with Ginkgo.
Im also interested in iodine supplements as suggested by VerdantSpires
I was wondering if there could be any adverse reaction with all these things she is taking.
regards
Loki
Loki, I’m sorry this sat so long. So many threads, and this new platform’s structure has me losing sight of this thread. Some new challenge. Lol!
The only thing that lit up was the Vit C. I just finished a Green Flower Media class on cannabis and cancer and Mara Gordon was emphatic about cutting back on antioxidants during this type of regimen, especially if taking chemo.
The thought is that the antioxidants might not be acting in the best interest of the process, and may be protecting the cancer cells. The suggestion is to not take antioxidant supplements or extracts at the same time you’re taking cannabis medications. Eat foods high in antioxidants and let the body take what it needs
No one else has stepped in to answer, so I’d figure you’re good with the rest. No other red flags for me.
How does that square up with high-dose intravenous vitamin C being used by a lot of integrative doctors either in support of chemo or as a valid treatment in itself? Confusing...
"Vitamin C, when administered in high doses by intravenous (I.V.) infusions, can kill cancer cells. Vitamin C interacts with iron and other metals to create hydrogen peroxide. In high concentrations, hydrogen peroxide damages the DNA and mitochondria of cancer cells and shuts down their energy supply and kills them outright.
Best of all — and unlike virtually all conventional chemotherapy drugs that destroy cancer cells — it is selectively toxic. No matter how high the concentration, Vitamin C does not harm healthy cells."
High Dose Intravenous Vitamin C (IVC)
By the way, oral supplements don't work for that action. The organism strictly regulates vitamin C levels. Anything above a certain level gets eliminated in pee. Only an IV perfusion does what the above quote says. Liposomally encapsulated vitamin C is advertised as allowing as high a concentration in the cells as an IV perfusion but I have my doubts, although I have been using it.
KingstonRabbi
Well-Known Member
Hi notsurge!
I think the difference between Mara Gordon and the Cancer Tutor site you linked above is marketing. I don't mean that in a cynical way. I think they both can be right, both pursuing what they believe is in patient's best interest based on the available information. Therefore they emphasize facts that support their view. We don't know much about how Vit C interacts with cannabis or chemo, but if info in link is reported accurately it Vit C shows promise (info seems mostly legitimate, but a little too clear cut to be the whole truth.) My gut instinct is to side with Mara on this, because I understand cannabis a lot better than vit C.
Regarding oral high dose vit C, most of it goes out through the bowels with super high doses causing diarrhea. In theory liposomes would pass into blood stream before releasing vit C so they could theoretically achieve similar levels to IV. Theoretically.
I think the difference between Mara Gordon and the Cancer Tutor site you linked above is marketing. I don't mean that in a cynical way. I think they both can be right, both pursuing what they believe is in patient's best interest based on the available information. Therefore they emphasize facts that support their view. We don't know much about how Vit C interacts with cannabis or chemo, but if info in link is reported accurately it Vit C shows promise (info seems mostly legitimate, but a little too clear cut to be the whole truth.) My gut instinct is to side with Mara on this, because I understand cannabis a lot better than vit C.
Regarding oral high dose vit C, most of it goes out through the bowels with super high doses causing diarrhea. In theory liposomes would pass into blood stream before releasing vit C so they could theoretically achieve similar levels to IV. Theoretically.
OtherMother
Active Member
Hi guys
A quick update: our little girl has now been on cannabis oil for two months and we're up to a pretty good dose: three times 50mg THC biobombs a day and three times 100mg CBD backed up with a heap of apigenin. I know your advice has been maybe to flip those numbers and that will probably be the next step.
So far we've also stuck with putting all the oils down her feeding tube: we're certainly not averse to suppositories but we figured we'd stick with oral for now, partly because it's a lot of suppositories for a girl who fights like a tiger over meds already, partly because during inevitable hospital admissions for temperatures or whatever, giving her suppositories without the medics noticing will be really tough (bear in mind we're in the UK and having to tread very lightly).
The regimen is hopefully working. The last reading a couple of weeks ago showed no cancer cells in the CSF for the first time since Dec. Also no spread anywhere. True, she's still getting intrathecal chemo once a fortnight so we're still unclear about what is causing what. If we get another good result this week, they'll pull back to chemo once a month. I think one more good result and we'd maybe stop the chemo altogether.
Our one problem is that she's still experiencing pretty nasty gastro problems. These kicked off in late Feb – vomiting, pain, retching – they managed to get things under control in hospital after a couple of days with IV antacids and antiemetics. We had a couple of relapses during March, each time having to stop cannabis doses to let her stomach settle, but it had seemed to be getting better. We've been back home the past couple of weeks.
But this weekend the problems have got worse again – even with a regime of about five oral drugs, she still brought up her oils this morning. This is the first time the meds have really threatened to fail her: I worry it's going to be hard to keep her consistently out of hospital if this continues. The doctors had originally blamed the condition on steroids they had given her in Jan/Feb, but if so the problems should have cleared up weeks ago. Having done some reading I'm beginning to think the cannabis oil might be the cause – I know it sometimes alleviates GI problems, but in other cases it seems to aggravate them.
Has anyone got any suggestions about how to make things better, or who we could approach for help? Should we bite the bullet with suppositories or are there known stomach remedies worth trying first? I should point out she had a stem cell transplant back in September, so we're still having to avoid the likes of probiotics – I know they might potentially help.
OM
A quick update: our little girl has now been on cannabis oil for two months and we're up to a pretty good dose: three times 50mg THC biobombs a day and three times 100mg CBD backed up with a heap of apigenin. I know your advice has been maybe to flip those numbers and that will probably be the next step.
So far we've also stuck with putting all the oils down her feeding tube: we're certainly not averse to suppositories but we figured we'd stick with oral for now, partly because it's a lot of suppositories for a girl who fights like a tiger over meds already, partly because during inevitable hospital admissions for temperatures or whatever, giving her suppositories without the medics noticing will be really tough (bear in mind we're in the UK and having to tread very lightly).
The regimen is hopefully working. The last reading a couple of weeks ago showed no cancer cells in the CSF for the first time since Dec. Also no spread anywhere. True, she's still getting intrathecal chemo once a fortnight so we're still unclear about what is causing what. If we get another good result this week, they'll pull back to chemo once a month. I think one more good result and we'd maybe stop the chemo altogether.
Our one problem is that she's still experiencing pretty nasty gastro problems. These kicked off in late Feb – vomiting, pain, retching – they managed to get things under control in hospital after a couple of days with IV antacids and antiemetics. We had a couple of relapses during March, each time having to stop cannabis doses to let her stomach settle, but it had seemed to be getting better. We've been back home the past couple of weeks.
But this weekend the problems have got worse again – even with a regime of about five oral drugs, she still brought up her oils this morning. This is the first time the meds have really threatened to fail her: I worry it's going to be hard to keep her consistently out of hospital if this continues. The doctors had originally blamed the condition on steroids they had given her in Jan/Feb, but if so the problems should have cleared up weeks ago. Having done some reading I'm beginning to think the cannabis oil might be the cause – I know it sometimes alleviates GI problems, but in other cases it seems to aggravate them.
Has anyone got any suggestions about how to make things better, or who we could approach for help? Should we bite the bullet with suppositories or are there known stomach remedies worth trying first? I should point out she had a stem cell transplant back in September, so we're still having to avoid the likes of probiotics – I know they might potentially help.
OM
Hello OM
Good news, with a bit of a challenge. When will this get easier, eh? My first thought was that if you go the anal route it might be easier to use a syringe instead of capsules. She won't like the feel of the capsules, I'm pretty certain.
The gastro problem complicates things a bit, and you may not have a better option at the moment. As you pointed out, sometimes the oil can cause gastro distress. That's a lot for her stomach to process. Your beautiful little girl has so much going on. If you can screw up the courage I'd try using syringes for anal administration.
It's entirely possible that the gastro problem is unrelated to the cannabinoid therapy, but her inability to keep it down is reason enough to try another route.
OM, it was brought to my attention that the processing of the oil may be a contributing factor, so let's make certain of that. Was this oil you prepared yourself, and if so, was it winterized? Freezing pulls out components that may be valuable medicinally in other ways, but can interfere with the absorbtion of the oils or upset a delicate stomach.
Just trying to touch all bases.
Just trying to touch all bases.
OtherMother
Active Member
Hey Sue, thanks for that. I hadn't thought of syringes instead of suppositories. Any useful links to dos and don't very gratefully received.
And no I didn't prep the CO myself. I'm checking with the supplier about freezing. Not to my knowledge but I'll see.
One thought: I recall a couple of people telling me one or two days off a week is not a bad idea with a cannabinoid regimen. I never actually asked why, but I was wondering whether that might help keep the stomach onside. Any thoughts on this?
And no I didn't prep the CO myself. I'm checking with the supplier about freezing. Not to my knowledge but I'll see.
One thought: I recall a couple of people telling me one or two days off a week is not a bad idea with a cannabinoid regimen. I never actually asked why, but I was wondering whether that might help keep the stomach onside. Any thoughts on this?
I'd suggest that is bad idea for cancer. It is better to keep the pressure on, part of the reason why multiple doses a day are suggested.
The “herbal holiday” is recommended to reset the cannabinoid receptors. When you develop tolerance this will correct it in just 72 hours.
However, this isn’t recommended when you’re treating life-threatening illness and disease. Rather, a switch of strains used to produce the oils is suggested. An occasional surprise to the system keeps everything running more smoothly.
So many things could be causing the gastro distress.
I’d look on Amazon for the syringes. They can be purchased in 1 ml size, so one per dose and toss away. It’ll make your life much easier.
The amber ones are significantly more expensive, but they’ll protect the oil from light degradation. You’ll be storing in the fridge, so this isn’t really essential. It can be a handy thing in some cases.
I think you’ll see a change when you introduce anal administration. Her body won’t have to deal with the euphoria anymore, and that’s gotta make a difference. How’s she handling that 150 mg a day? Through the back door you don’t have the same concerns.
KingstonRabbi
Well-Known Member
Hi OM. Great news, and not so great.
Vomiting reaction to cannabis is very rare and usually occurs after years of usage. So I don't think cannabinoids are the problem. If the oil is dark and opaque it may have high levels of wax, chlorophyll and other substances that can irritate sensitive stomachs, but not likely to cause that violent a reaction. Back pain and pressure on spine can cause violent stomach pains. It's a shot in the dark, but considering her treatments I'd thought I'd throw that possibility out there.
Whether you use capsules or syringe there will be a distinct herbal odor noticeable by anyone taking her temp rectally. It's not strong unless I pass gas, but still very different from the one you expect. Effect can last 8-12 hours after last dose. So if you think you may not need medical services in the next 12 hours (which I realize is an ongoing concern) I would switch to suppositories now, at least for the THC doses.
If that's not possible then you can try a 2-3 days without cannabis oil. I don't think that's the problem, but break would at least rule that out as causing GI problems.
If you do use a syringe watch for possible irritation caused by extra virgin olive oil. Some members have reported EVOO caused burning feeling in their children's sensitive tissues. One of the things I like about capsules is that they contain the oil in one place and release it more slowly keeping it from spreading/leaking to anus which could cause irritation. Also make sure there's no sharp edges on syringe.
Vomiting reaction to cannabis is very rare and usually occurs after years of usage. So I don't think cannabinoids are the problem. If the oil is dark and opaque it may have high levels of wax, chlorophyll and other substances that can irritate sensitive stomachs, but not likely to cause that violent a reaction. Back pain and pressure on spine can cause violent stomach pains. It's a shot in the dark, but considering her treatments I'd thought I'd throw that possibility out there.
Whether you use capsules or syringe there will be a distinct herbal odor noticeable by anyone taking her temp rectally. It's not strong unless I pass gas, but still very different from the one you expect. Effect can last 8-12 hours after last dose. So if you think you may not need medical services in the next 12 hours (which I realize is an ongoing concern) I would switch to suppositories now, at least for the THC doses.
If that's not possible then you can try a 2-3 days without cannabis oil. I don't think that's the problem, but break would at least rule that out as causing GI problems.
If you do use a syringe watch for possible irritation caused by extra virgin olive oil. Some members have reported EVOO caused burning feeling in their children's sensitive tissues. One of the things I like about capsules is that they contain the oil in one place and release it more slowly keeping it from spreading/leaking to anus which could cause irritation. Also make sure there's no sharp edges on syringe.
OtherMother
Active Member
Thanks guys, all very good advice. Sounds like we avoid the days off then, Sue/Radogast. I have a ready supply of those syringes, but I do worry about what you say about smell if we go back passage, Rabbi: we're in hosp now and we're in and out every few days, plus we've had a world of trouble over using cannabinoids already. Still, we maybe don't have a choice. Thanks for the warning on EVOO: it's good to know we have the two other options at any rate.
And I certainly agree oils may not be the cause. I see various testimonies online from people saying they've experienced fairly similar stomach problems, but obv it could be any number of other things. I ran the spine idea past the doctor this morning Rabbi and he said it was certainly possible. Still, if that's the case, would it suddenly get worse two months down the line? Who knows...
As I write, a couple of days of IV antisickness has more or less settled her down again and we should get discharged tomorrow. She's been off the oils since Sat night: we're planning to resume this afternoon. We'll proceed cautiously and hopefully get this under control.
Thanks again
OM
And I certainly agree oils may not be the cause. I see various testimonies online from people saying they've experienced fairly similar stomach problems, but obv it could be any number of other things. I ran the spine idea past the doctor this morning Rabbi and he said it was certainly possible. Still, if that's the case, would it suddenly get worse two months down the line? Who knows...
As I write, a couple of days of IV antisickness has more or less settled her down again and we should get discharged tomorrow. She's been off the oils since Sat night: we're planning to resume this afternoon. We'll proceed cautiously and hopefully get this under control.
Thanks again
OM
Interesting about the oils. If the EVOO is heated the burning sensation which you get when using it raw, vanishes - however I suspect it is then reduced to the same calibre as ordinary heat-extracted olive oil, so not sure whether to use EVOO in future. Moreover, although it doesn't burn, I find the heated up olive oil nauseating and do find that I get aching round my middle and maybe a suggestion of increased swelling when I have taken any quantity (this is orally). I don't know if this is my body reacting badly to the oil or whether it is the cannabis having a positive effect on the cancer (which is particularly concentrated in this area).
I tried using walnut oil, of all things, and found it a lot pleasanter and milder, I also tried a different brand of coconut oil - Biona? - which really IS virtually tasteless, and looks promising. But tonight i'm trying ghee!
Other mother - what is being used for IV anti-sickness? There's probably little choice just now, and the course is almost over anyway, plus the doses probably aren't large, but for future reference, find out what the drug is, look it up, and if it is a steroid that destroys bone marrow, compromising the immune system, query this and try not to accept more than is necessary. I got this during chemo. I had no idea, until it was too late to protest.
Hope all goes well.
edited to say I also tried extracting using freezing and whisky. Not enough alcohol be really strong, but very good. I put the supposedly extracted herb remains into cookies...there was clearly a lot of active material left as the cookies were very potent and oh, so easy to eat. Sadly I shouldn't be eating flour and sugar (though I did use some stevia).
I tried using walnut oil, of all things, and found it a lot pleasanter and milder, I also tried a different brand of coconut oil - Biona? - which really IS virtually tasteless, and looks promising. But tonight i'm trying ghee!
Other mother - what is being used for IV anti-sickness? There's probably little choice just now, and the course is almost over anyway, plus the doses probably aren't large, but for future reference, find out what the drug is, look it up, and if it is a steroid that destroys bone marrow, compromising the immune system, query this and try not to accept more than is necessary. I got this during chemo. I had no idea, until it was too late to protest.
Hope all goes well.
edited to say I also tried extracting using freezing and whisky. Not enough alcohol be really strong, but very good. I put the supposedly extracted herb remains into cookies...there was clearly a lot of active material left as the cookies were very potent and oh, so easy to eat. Sadly I shouldn't be eating flour and sugar (though I did use some stevia).
Could I ask - what effects have others experienced when using cannabis for cancer; do you get any suggestion that anything is happening, or is it just a waiting game?
KingstonRabbi
Well-Known Member
For me it was just a waiting game. I never felt any changes, but my tumors were not near any sensory neurons.
I would know it if the tumor was shrinking because it's preventing me from breathing. So far, the cannabis regimen hasn't had an impact. It's growing.
Not sure if I should like that, notsurge, so I'll just thank you myself for replying.
I wonder what the turn round time is... Chemotherapy just - possibly - had a positive effect at the end of a month; I could just feel a slight softening of the underlying hardness revealed after the ascites was partially drained. The negative stuff - hair loss particularly - typically starts towards the end of the second month. I'm thinking cannabis is not so very far removed from chemo, except that the cannabis itself is benign. So maybe in a month? 2 months? But I'm guessing.
What is winding me up is not knowing whether the effects I'm experiencing are good or bad.
What regimen are you following, though, notsurge, and how long have you been on it?
You mean with the cannabis? I am following more or less the bio-bomb recipe, except that I don't use gel caps to make the suppositories. I use cocoa butter which I sculpt by hand into little bullets. They are much easier to insert -- one flat end, one pointy end. Plus they melt rapidly once in a warm place, so I don't have to worry about waiting a long time for absorption. I am on my third increase in concentration. I couldn't give you the numbers, but the oil is very well made by a pharmacist. I got a prescription for it. I add CBD to it for balance, and of course the magical liquid sunflower lecithin.
None of this had had any impact on the growth in my throat. I started early January, but I didn't know what I was working with until later, I think late February.
Now, if you mean, what do I do in general?, I do probably 15 or 20 different kinds of therapy. A lot of it has to do with deep psychotherapy -- various processes, meditations, exercises. I also work with small amounts of psychedelic substances. I work with nutrition -- a lot of raw vegetables and fruits and fresh juices. I exercise -- yoga, chigung, weights, walking, bouncing. I take supplements and plants, not always the same, I keep experimenting. Amentoflavone, chaga, liposomial vitamin C, brahmi, beta-glucan, MSM, mistletoe, etc.
I did an extended, 23-day water fast. The tumor stopped growing during the fast but it started growing again a couple of days after I started eating again -- which invalidated the beliefs I had about the powers of fasting. I still believe that the deep purification and core strengthening will serve me well but I expected the tumor to be broken down and "eaten" through the turning-within process of the fast called autophagy. That didn't happen. Oh, and I didn't take any drugs or supplements during the fast so that regimen was interrupted.
I am about to go to a private clinic in Germany (Holistic Cancer Treatment in Germany | Hufeland Klinik). It's very expensive and I have to pay for it myself, but they do some of the things I am interested in like low-dose chemotherapy targeted through the mechanism of hypoglycemia. We'll see how it goes. I am paying one week at a time so I can assess the results before committing for another week.
The main doctor at the Hufeland clinic asked me if I had some radiation. I said I didn't. He said: good, because we found that in situations like yours, if the patient had radiation, we can't help them any more. They use a combination of attacking the cancer without attacking the person (with heat, low-dose chemo, photodynamic therapy, etc.) and immune system boosting with various infusions and injections.
I don't do chemotherapy or radiation. I had surgery in October but I wouldn't do it now with what I know. I just got scared because I felt that thing growing. I thought it would buy me some time to work on other approaches, but that tumor grew back so fast I feel I just wasted the huge amount of money and stress on the organism that surgery causes.
So there. Basically, I work on the spiritual level, on the level of cause, but I try to pay attention to everything and listen to everybody. The cannabis hasn't paid off so far but I am a beginner with it and I am not discounting it.
VerdantSpires
Well-Known Member
@notsurge Keep us posted on your progress at the Hufeland clinic. I think, from memory, it's a tumor on the esophagus? All the things you have tried must surely have bought you some time, even though the cure remains elusive.
As I read further on alternative cancer treatments, it seems that colloidal silver has much to offer, and just as importantly, it's all pros and no cons. As a general treatment it can be administered orally or sublingually, but for conditions involving the airway it can be breathed as a cold vapor from an ultrasonic-based nebuliser (particles can't be transported in hot steam from a vaporiser). Colloidal silver seems compatible with every other therapy, strengthening the immune system and fighting pathogens wherever it finds them. Taken following a meal, it doesn't make its way into the intestine because it's quickly absorbed into the bloodstream through the stomach wall, so all the good bacteria in the intestinal tract escape its attentions. It is said to operate on cancerous cells by an interesting process—instead of killing them, it reverts them to normal cells—thus leaving the liver much less debris to clean up. The effectiveness of colloidal silver is enhanced by simultaneously using DMSO to open up a path through the protective membrane that tumors like to surround themselves with. DMSO might assist the action of cannabis here, too, especially if you are vaping, to get cannabinoids through the tumor's protective membrane. (DMSO can be administered by applying it to skin anywhere, or drinking it in a cup of juice or water, it is not generally vaped.)
All the best in Germany.
As I read further on alternative cancer treatments, it seems that colloidal silver has much to offer, and just as importantly, it's all pros and no cons. As a general treatment it can be administered orally or sublingually, but for conditions involving the airway it can be breathed as a cold vapor from an ultrasonic-based nebuliser (particles can't be transported in hot steam from a vaporiser). Colloidal silver seems compatible with every other therapy, strengthening the immune system and fighting pathogens wherever it finds them. Taken following a meal, it doesn't make its way into the intestine because it's quickly absorbed into the bloodstream through the stomach wall, so all the good bacteria in the intestinal tract escape its attentions. It is said to operate on cancerous cells by an interesting process—instead of killing them, it reverts them to normal cells—thus leaving the liver much less debris to clean up. The effectiveness of colloidal silver is enhanced by simultaneously using DMSO to open up a path through the protective membrane that tumors like to surround themselves with. DMSO might assist the action of cannabis here, too, especially if you are vaping, to get cannabinoids through the tumor's protective membrane. (DMSO can be administered by applying it to skin anywhere, or drinking it in a cup of juice or water, it is not generally vaped.)
All the best in Germany.